A little disappointed...

Try to focus more on the surrounding sites instead of a place to sleep.

This is a good example of NOT getting Ricks travel philosophy.

Why do you want to stay by the Eiffel Tower, is it because you read about Rue Cler in Ricks books, and you know the Eiffel Tower as a landmark. ?

I have never stayed near the ET.. it is too quiet an area for me, and not central to most other sites , other then the touristy Rue Cler street I mean.

Rick likes the area ,, yes, but he also says FIND YOUR OWN BACKDOORS!

On my RS Family tour I looked up the hotels listed in the information you receive just before tour. Only one of them was in Ricks books. Thank goodness!!

They were all nice, budget to moderate, well located and not crammed with bus tours and other North American tourists. Exactly the type of places Rick recommends you find and use on your own.

You are lucky.

The hotel we stayed in Paris was not in a touristy area, but was steps from the metro( which you WILL be taught how to use) and the rooms were larger and nicer then most offered in Rue Cler or Latin Quarter at similar price range. The room we stayed in was listed starting at 200 euros a night, more then I would normally pay on my own.

Bea, since you have never been on a RS it must be hard for you to judge their worth based on "what you get" since you do not really know "what you get".

I have travelled independtly for at least the last 25 years, and this RS tour was my first, and I felt I got my moneys worth. I may have been able to do the trip a bit cheaper but I would not have had all the advantages,, reserved tickets and guides at all major sites, hotels definately better then I would have paid for, etc etc.

Bascially stop worrying , it is not the Rick Steves way at all, the hotels will be clean and well located, you are not going to find yourself in a 4 star Hilton( thank goodness) but if you have the right attitude you will be very happy with the choices.

You are not going to Europe to stay in your room are you?

Pat,

One doesn't have to be in a RS tour to figure things out. I read what he offers in many of his tours and I find them way too expensive. It's not that I can't afford it, I just don't want to spend money on something I can get much cheaper and I can do on my own.
He has that information on the web site. It's rocket science.

We went on the family tour Best of Paris and France last summer. When we got the info about the hotel we were booked at for our first night of the tour, I was surprised to not find it in the Rick Steves books, too. I was trying to book additional nights prior to when our tour started, so I called the offices to find out why. I was told that if all the hotels Rick Steves tours used for their groups were in the books, they would never be able to book a tour group. Made total sense to me. I will say that all the hotels we stayed in were wonderful, so please don't be concerned about your room. And, if you have some free time in Paris, you can take a lovely, romantic walk from your hotel to the Eiffel Tower!

Bea, you are just adding up hotel and train tickets, there are untanglbles you cannot easily put a value on.

Yes, you can do it cheaper on your own, I have, but I know that the value of what I got on the tour definaely was higher then mere dollars and cents.

I can find you a hotel for 50 euros,, doesn't mean I'd wamt to stay in it though.

The key to being a real traveler is to be flexible and go with the flow. Everyone on this board has had to make changes to their original plans at one point or another....strikes, weather, lost reservations, etc.

If you are really bummed out over this....and you keep up that grudge for the next three months, you will build up so much anger you won't enjoy your trip.

My suggestions are this: Get over it as you assumed these were your hotels even though no one said they were, or cancel your trip. Remember, no grumps allowed on an RS tour...and three months of stored up anger will make you the biggest grumps in the world.

You're going to Europe, for goodness sake. I can think of thousands of people who would willingly take your place.

Pat, although I appreciate your feedback, I think it's a bit harsh to say that I don't get Rick's travel philosophy. I was simply stating that I had made plans based on where I thought the hotel was going to be. Is there anything wrong with that?

And Frank, who said anything about me being a grump? I can be disappointed without being a grump!

We stayed at Hotel Selene in Rome and it was great--very quiet, good beds, very helpful. I think you will be pleased. And we were not on a RS tour--just picked it for price off of Expedia. I had originally booked Aberdeen, but this was less. But we had no complaints.

I'm not trying to be a salesperson for Rick Steves tours, but I've been on 2 of them and they were definitely worth the cost. I think the great majority of tour alumni will agree. I've also booked and taken several wonderful trips on my own, taking advantage of the skills I got on the tour and from Rick's and other guidebooks. It's upsetting to hear someone dismiss the tour experience out of hand though, without any first hand knowledge --just adding up the dollars and cents things allegedly cost.
Also, the hotels for the tour are fine. One criteria used to select hotels tour groups stay at is the availability of a large enough lobby to accommodate a group of people -because the group gathers and meets at certain times. There has to be room. What a trivial thing to be worrying about now -- how do you know you will be disappointed? Give it a chance. Go and have a good time.

No, you didn't say you made plans. You said you were really disappointed, inferred you were not happy because the actual hotels were "not as good" and said it was a bad way to start a trip.

Now, if I wrote that, what would you think? Let it go.....the grump line is the running joke about RS tours--no grumps allowed.

In travel, nothing is guaranteed until you get it in writing...and even then it's not guaranteed.

Pat,

I didn't say I was adding up hotels and train tickets. I only said I can and have done it for much cheaper than $2000 7 days in Rome.
All I need is a clean hotel, close enought to a subway station. Because a hotel is 50 EUR , it doesn't mean is bad. It depends what you want from a hotel. I don't need anyone to "pamper" me in a hotel, carrying my luggage or room service. All I need is clean place to sleep, because I don't spend much time there.
Hotels that RS offers in his tours are not luxury, they are just regular hotels.
And don't forget that when it's 2 people going, you pay double. When you book a hotel room for 2 you don't pay double, it's just a bit more expensive than for 1 person.
RS tours include just fees to a few sights you can get for max of $20 at their box office. Nothing special. Some of his tours you can do for free, like walking around the city. They also include all breakfasts and some of the dinners. Many hostels or pensions offer breakfast for free. There is more to say about it.

Becky,

I took a RS tour a few years ago; it was the Paris and Heart of France. I didn't like the hotel in Paris very well (Hotel Castex), but not because the hotel was bad but because the area in Marais is very noisy. We were kept awake late at night from "partiers" yelling in the street, then awakened early in the morning by the trash truck rumbling down the street.

BUT . . . the actual tour was fantastic. Yes, it cost more than if I had done it myself, but we did so many things that an individual wouldn't know to do. For example, we had a picnic/potluck lunch at a chateau of a duchess in Burgundy who had a vineyard all around the chateau. She took us on a tour of her home (mini castle), had a wine tasting of her wine in the kitchen, told us about her family history, and signed a cookbook that I bought from her with recipes from local chateau (incl. hers). We also visited a tiny little village in Normandy where some American soldiers had treated both Allied and Nazi soldiers during a raging battle. They turned the small church into a hospital and we even saw a small crater in the tile floor where a dud bomb came through the roof and hit the floor. Blood stains were still on the wood pews. The mayor and city council members of this little village came to meet us and treated us like royalty. They were so honored that we wanted to visit them. They are still so thankful for our help in WWII.

These experiences were worth a little more money. And the guide gave us lots of free time. So, enjoy the tour and don't worry about the hotel. You'll have a great time.

Good grief! I think I'm glad I don't go on RS trips. I'd rather do it myself, save money, and not have to be with people who think I might be a grump for voicing a different opinion.

Becky I don't mean to be mean, but I still don't get how you were able to figure out which hotels you thought you were going to stay in based on the information in Ricks website. I read all the reviews and scrapbooks on my tour and noticed most of them stayed in different hotels from each other. Just a few seemed to be consistantly visited.

Our tour stayed at Hotel Selene, it was not the best of the bunch, but it was absolutely fine!! Really. I also booked the night before the tour there and it was only 90 euros, so I understood the basic quality to expect, and was not dissappointed.

Do not worry Becky, stop over thinking , it is hard when you are really excited about the trip I know, but just go with the flow and you will find yourself quite happy.

You will not be staying in any big chain type hotels, you will find most places will be small, often quirky, but, as I said clean and decent. A few will be exceptional. The hotel in Switzerland was amazing,, such character , the views, etc etc. The hotel in the country in Italy was so cute, as waw the one in Burgundy,,
Our hotel in Paris had large rooms( not the norm for Paris) and the one in Austria was so quiant and we loved being in the countryside.

Expect character, clean, and quaintness and you will be pleased. If you want well known and luxury then you will be dissappointed.

You will have a wonderful time and I can't wait to read your trip report. I bet you will save a few of the names of the hotels you stay in, in your personal file, I know I have, and I will not share them !! LOL, since then they would get filled up and likely raise their prices( which I have seen some of Ricks listed hotels do in Paris anyways) .

I don't believe some of you understood what Becky is worried about. Becasue RS stated on the web site that the hotels are close to Eiffel Tower or what ever sights and actually it's not, this is misleading. Some people like to stay close to a certain sight, eevn some don't care about it. In my opinion stating that a hotel is close to Eiffel Tower will attract more people,plus those hotels are more expensive. It looks to me that RS tries to "justify" his tours' high prices.This is another reason I believe that RS tours are a rip-off. Those hotels are of high quality, they are just standard.

Becky,

Sorry to hear about your dissapointment. I've never been on RS tour and I will never go because I belive they cost too much for what you get from it.
Howeevr maybe I can help you.
I took a look at the link you provided and I am not sure what it means. It doesn't really say that those are the ONLY hotels that they book for the tours, but I agre with you, it's confusing. Did you call them up? Before you booked your trip where you able to see details about the trip? Like I said before I see those tours as a rip-off.
I will PM you with some other things you can do.

Don't let it drag you down... you're still going to Paris! Hell, I'd rather stay at my 10th hotel choice than not go to Paris at all. And it's not like you're staying in Clichy-sous-Bois or some similarly awful banlieu.

Becky, please don't be alarmed. We stayed at the Hotel Selene on our BOE 14 day trip, and it was wonderful. Air conditioning, gorgeous furnishings, great big nice bathrooms, elevator, very comfortable beds, and close to the Termini, so we could walk to catch the bus. If you PM me with your email, I can send a couple of photos.
I don't know about the Apollinaire, but I venture to say you will be happy. Kind of exciting to see RS using hotels in other arrondissements...only a ten minute walk to Luxembourg gardens and St. Germain; they have air conditioning and are only two minutes from the metro. You will likely be pleasantly surprised. Besides, this is PARIS! You will have the time of your life on this trip. Try not to give this another thought! The hotels we stayed at were not always the ones you see in brochures, etc., but they were all wonderful. We had NO complaints. We just had FUN.
And I will never consider his tours a rip-off. No way could we have duplicated the experience on our own. The small group of new friends, the unbelievable guides, the amount of experiences you can fit into your two weeks will just astonish you. Ciao!

I've never taken an RS tour either, and never intend to. I have, however, taken two tours with other companies, but I prefer to travel independently. From what I can see, RS tours house you in hotels that are far less upscale than the tours I have taken. (I can't afford upscale normally, and don't seek it out, but if it's part of the package, why not?). And while there is a lot of "free time" on RS tours, on my tours we have spent more of that time learning something from our guide. I understand the concept of packing light and practice it myself, but I don't wish to be told what kind of luggage, or how much, I can take on a trip. It just seems to me that RS tours are a lot more expensive for a lot less than you get with other companies, if you are inclined to take a package tour.

Bea, you have kind of gone over the edge going from not worth it to rip-off, especially since you have no experience with the trips. Another expert !! ??

Becky, there is another point -- tour groups are tough on hotels because you take out a whole bunch of room as the same time. Some small hotels don't like tour groups at all. So his choices may be limited. The rooms are at a discounted rate and then the hotel has to turn away potentially other customers. I am absolutely sure, with no prior experience, that the rooms will be more than adequate.

Becky, don't be disappointed in the Hotel selection just yet! I'd suggest waiting until after your trip to form an opinion. I've found that the Hotels selected by ETBD are all fantastic, with some being true "RS classics" and others very upscale and "ritzy". As Pat mentioned it's probably a good idea not to list all the tour hotels in the Guidebooks, as they'd be packed with Rick's readers.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Hotel selection for tours is probably determined in a large part by availability. In usually crowded markets like Paris and Rome, I'm sure it's challenging at times to find centrally located and good quality Hotels that can accommodate 15-20 rooms numerousl times during a tourist season. ETBD may also have several groups in a given city at the same time, making the lodgings even harder to co-ordinate. In smaller towns and villages this is probably even more difficult as smaller Hotels or B&B's may not have that many rooms (and some may be already booked by other travellers). A good example would be the tour Hotels in some places in Ireland, where two different properties may be used for each tour group.

Incidentally, I'm also booked on a RS tour that will be starting in Paris in May, and I just received the list of first & last Hotels yesterday. I've never heard of either one but I did check the website for the Paris Hotel and it looks VERY nice! I'm not in the least worried about any of the lodgings on the tour, as I'm sure they'll be great.

One of the foundations of Rick's travel philosophy is travelling "close to the ground" in smaller lodgings, in order to provide a more "authentic" experience than that provided at the big hotel chains ("forced smile", etc.). It's good to be a bit flexible and adaptable as well (there WON'T be any Bellman to carry luggage on a RS tour!).

I'd be interested to hear your impressions after you return from the trip.

Happy travels!

Quote from Rick:

" Be militantly positive. Avoid the temptation to commiserate with negative Americans."

This is how I feel about those dissing Rick's tours.
Most of us posting here believe in his travel philosophy and many have gone on his tours. (Big surprise there). Other opinions are certainly welcome, but it would be nice if they were backed-up with facts.

Bea,

"I've never been on RS tour and I will never go because I belive they cost too much for what you get from it"

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, but the only way you can be absolutely sure of that would be to take at least one tour, so that you're able to accurately and objectively compare the two methods of travel. I have to agree with Pat in that there's no way to quantify a lot of the intangibles and experiences that one gets from a tour (especially a RS tour!). I've used both methods of travel over the years, and found that absolutely the best method for me is a combination of a RS tour along with at least an equal amount of time travelling on my own (the best of both worlds!). IMHO, the RS tours are great value!

"RS tours include just fees to a few sights you can get for max of $20 at their box office.

While the actual admission cost for tickets to some sites may only be about $20, in many cases a local Guide is provided as well and some of these charge fairly high fees. While it's certainly possible for anyone to hire a Guide, ETBD seems to have found a group of outstanding Guides that really make each visit interesting and memorable.

"Becasue RS stated on the web site that the hotels are close to Eiffel Tower or what ever sights and actually it's not, this is misleading."

The title line describing Hotels states Centrally-located, family-run hotels. The Hotel that Becky described may not be within "walking distance" of the Eiffel Tower, but I'm sure her group will be seeing the Tower and other famous sights. Rick's Guides will have it all sorted!

You may wish to browse the Tour Members Feedback section, as the majority of people that take an ETBD tour seem to be enormously pleased with the experience.

Cheers!

As the only person who posts regularly who has actually worked in the tour industry...I'm having a great time reading this thread.

I believe people should travel in any way that they like...independently, on an RS tour, on a non-RS tour. Whichever makes them happy.

But I wonder how many people here who are defending RS tours have ever actually taken a non-RS tour or do you believe everything RS says about them? (Even though most of what he says is not true. Do you really think he's going to say anything good about the competition.)

I just wonder how many people take an RS tour because they want the "Rick STeves Experience?" You can travel like Rick, you can picnic like Rick, you can stay in the same hotels as Rick?

There's nothing wrong with going after the "Rick Steves Experience." He and his company have done a great job of putting together a type of tour his followers wish to take--and charge a nice penny for it.

Then the question comes up...are they worth what they cost. The answer is simple: if you enjoyed it, then it was worth it. If you had experiences that will last a lifetime, then it was worth it

Travel is different for every one of us. There is no right way to do it, no right hotels to stay in, no right places to go...it's all individual.

And if someone travels differently than you do, or does something you wouldn't do, is it really necessary to get on this board and put them down?

If you don't like the way someone travels, don't travel with them.

Thank you to those people who have remained positive in their posts, provided me with useful info and have not resorted to bashing others for their opinions. I did not make this post so that I or others would be put down for what we thought. We all have different ways of doing things and just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad.

Well, aside from all the bickering, there is a good reason that the hotels used by the tours are not always in the book. First, hotels listed in the RS books are actually pretty limited and only a very small sampling of what is available (Yes, there are very good quality low cost hotels other than "RS Picks") Second, many who pick up his books rarely stay other than at a RS Pick, meaning those few hotels typically book quickly. Finally, Those same people are competition for rooms, raising prices, posing a problem for the large number of rooms needed for his tours. One solution...recommend smaller, maybe pricier, (not always) hotels in the book; have a list of other larger (at least 10 rooms) hotels for the tours. Put it this way, if they recommended hotels in the book, then filled them with tours...it sort of defeats the purpose.

Paul, is sort of in the right frame, but slightly different. Tours usually book hotel rooms 1-3 years in advance. Dont' forget, they don't go in for one or two rooms at a time. They book hundreds of room nights at once and use that to negotiate a good rate.

But let's say you own a hotel in the RS book and you're turning business away. Well, you can charge a little more since the demand is high. And that price may be too much for the tour company. (you don't need the tour company to fill the rooms.)

So, Plan B: stay at hotels not mentioned in the books.

Frank, I enjoyed reading your very interesting comments on this somewhat "spirited debate". Your background definitely provides a slightly different persepective on tours (RS or others). A few comments though....

I agree, people should travel in any way that "makes them happy". However, I feel that comments on the value of RS tours would be more accurate coming from those that have actually taken a RS tour. I've never taken a "non-RS tour" but I have spoken with a number of people that have, and they generally seem pleased but not overly enthusiastic about "their" tour experience.

"I just wonder how many people take an RS tour because they want the "Rick STeves Experience?"

Speaking for myself, getting the "Rick Steves Experience" was never part of the criteria I used when first deciding to take a RS tour (or subsequent RS tours). While they are a bit on the "pricey" side (especially considering the currency exchange I have to allow for), they seemed to be interesting and a lot of fun, and so far I haven't been disappointed. The tours cover so many interesting places, have fantastic Guides (including local Guides) and Drivers and I really feel these provided good value for the cost. In most cases, I suspect the tours don't stay in the same hotels that Rick uses.

"If you don't like the way someone travels, don't travel with them"

Absolutely! Travel is somewhat of a "personal experience" and everyone has to use the method they prefer most.

Cheers!

Like many of the posters here I've traveled independently and on a Rick Steves tour. I've taken other walking tours and have done day trips with those big buses. I was very happy with my RS tour and would highly recommend them. As someone who does travel independently, I wanted a tour that 1. gave me some significant free time, 2. would likely have people on it that I found interesting, 3. that was not more than 25 people. The fact that RS stays in smaller hotels near the city center and focused on history fit in with my plans. So, if you're coming into the tour with an understanding of the philosophy then you'll be fine. Don't borrow trouble by worrying about the hotels. I am sure it will be a great trip. I met some very interesting people on my trip and I hope that you do as well on yours. Pam

Becky

I understand how easy it is to read the reviews and hope that you have not made a mistake in choosing a RS tour. When I got my list of names for my France tour, I was a little disappointed not to have the guide that everyone raved about in the reviews. That ended the first moment I met him. I learned so much from him that I could have never learned on my own.
I am going on my 4th this year and though I know that I could probably do it alone for less money, this is the way I choose to travel though I agree with Ken and usually add on some time on my own. I think that when you are done with your tour, the hotels will be such a small part of what you have seen and done. Last year, I did the Ireland tour, some of the hotels were great and some just so-so. I could not begin to tell you which ones because you spend such little time there. But, when I read the tour member feedback, the one thing that I see from my fellow tour members was how much it meant that we stopped to visit two towns where two members had family from. I think what people are forgetting to mention is how much of a family you will become with the people on your tour and that will be one of the memories that means the most, not the hotels or restaurants.
I have had friends that have taken tours with companies like Cosmos and Globus and they had a great time, but either they had to pay extra for things included on a RS tour or they missed things altogether, like seeing David in Florence. There are friends that I know would not like a RS tour because the hotels are not 5 stars nor the restaurants. I believe that you chose this tour because you do understand this type of travel. I think you have made a great choice and I would love to hear what you think when you return.

Wow---this posting and the responses really surprised me. I am taking my third RS tour this year and I have traveled independently and with other tour companies. I also have worked in the travel industry in minor positions years ago. I agree wholeheartedly with Ken's comments. I don't see how anyone can say they would never take a RS tour because it costs too much. Every cent is worth it --- you'll have experiences you will never have traveling independently. I've made wonderful friends on my trips (some of us who live in the NW are actually arranging our own little reunion party.) I have not been disappointed with any of the tour hotels and all of mine have been in the books. However, Rick has researchers who are always looking at new hotels and restaurants. Those hotels listed on the link you provided are just a few of the hotels Rick has used. There are probably RS tours overlapping with you tour (Best of Europe in 21 Days, Best of Paris, Best of Rome, etc etc). You are not the only RS tour group in Paris and Rome in May. When I was in Murren, Switzerland in June 2007, there were two RS tours and we met some of the other tour members in a restaurant. We got Murren. They got Launterbrunnen. I was very happy in Murren and they probably felt disappointed they didn't get Murren. I am sure You will have a wonderful time and I hope you post on this board AFTER your trip.

Rick once said that he doesn't put most of the names of the hotels he uses for his tours in his guide books, because the rooms would be too full, and then his tour groups can't stay there. I remember very clearly him saying that. He could have said this in one of his travel festivals I went to. I can't really remember where I heard him say that, because I hear him speak a lot. Please do enjoy your trip no matter where you stay!

I'm going to take issue with those who say RS tours are far more expensive than independent travel. If I'm going back to a place I've already been, ok, it might be true. But for a first visit to a city I think RS delivers as good a value as you can do on your own. It's thru the efficient use of your time.

On a RS tour the bus drops you near the hotel, the keys are handed to you by the clerk as you walk in, and 30 minutes later the group meets in the lobby and you're out exploring. Your guide is there so you don't get lost or puzzle over maps trying to find the sights, they have reserved admission times so you're not waiting in long lines (especially valuable at museums that only offer reservations to tour groups), your guide or a local guide shows you around the city instead of walking around with your guide book open.

You can do all this on your own; you could even make an argument its more fun on your own, the accidental discovery or wandering down the wrong street leads to some memorable moments. But I'd say if you try to duplicate the things you see on a RS tour on your own it would easily take you 1/3 or more time; and when you cost out a 10-day RS trip against a 14-day tour on your own, the costs start to come a lot closer. And this ignores completely what you might value the hours of research it would take to plan an itinerary on your own, make hotel reservations, etc.

To: All
Some people love to do tours because they like the structure, some are more independent. I do both and have also been one of the tour sponsors. Your guide will make your trip, not the place you stay. If you don't like structure and having to be at a certain place at a certain time - you do not need a tour. A tour is a great first or "starter" trip. Then you can go back in the coming years to your favorite places. I think you will enjoy your trip Becky, but keep an open mind. There will always be some areas that may not be perfect. You will have unexpected problems - a bus may break down - an A/C or heater may not work, you get a bad meal - etc. You go with the flow and everthing usually will work out.
Thanks - Bill

Hi Becky,
I am sure you didn't expect this much discussion concerning your post.
Everyone has opinions which is fine. I think we all learn form each other. I just say if you have not had a particular experience, maybe you should not comment at all. I have traveled independently, by tour, through big ship cruises and river boat cruises. They all have their places in the travel industry and have advantages and disadvantages.
If you have never traveled to a country, I say take a tour or a cruise. Then you can see where you would like to return for more exploration. It is also nice to see how the transportation works in a country or city. After that I have returned on my own. I have not been on a RS tour but have gone on 3 with Collette and one Trafalger. The first I would do again and again. One thing you get on a tour is a connection with the people/culture of a country that I don't believe you can get on any other type of travel. The cost of a tour will be more than other forms of travel more than likely. Is is with worth it to you? I am sure that RS tours are great.
I would love to try one soon.

Happy Travels!

Also, on RS tours, when they say you will "visit," you visit, you go in, you experience. Often other type tours will say, you will "see," which means you drive by and see, or walk by and see. Before we took our tours, we did much research, and it's true, we have not travelled on a big bus tour, and Frank, I don't mean to denigrate all of these tours, as I'm sure many are wonderful. I spoke at length with a travel agent who herself had been on several Globus tours and sent clients on Globus and others, but when all is said and done, we just don't prefer a bus that is packed with people, so that by virtue of simple numbers, the hotels must be much larger and are generally not centrally located. Just as my husband and I ran a mom and pop business for 25 years, we still prefer the mom and pop style smaller hotels and shops along our travel routes, whether Europe or U.S. On an RS tour, everything except a few meals is included, generally unlike other tours or on your own, where you must cough up additional monies for admission to places, etc., similar to cruising, where you must pay extra for any tour in port cities. If you add in all those extra expenses for side tours or admissions, I think you can be in a closer ball park as far as total expense. All in all, I believe the RS tours are worth it. As I've said time and again, time is money, and our travel time is SO VALUABLE THAT WE WANT LOTS OF BANG FOR OUR BUCK, AND RS DELIVERS THAT. Apparently, some people still have the notion that RS hotels are substandard, roughin' it so to speak, and that is certainly not the case. From my experience, they were absolutely fine and centrally located so that we were able to strike out on our own if we chose in order to do more exploring. Just as we are all different, so, too, are ways of travel. We just prefer the RS way, and I have noted lately, that many other tour companies are now offering and advertising certain of their departure dates as "small group" tours, and that's great.

To Sharon (Tx)...how long do you think a tour company would be in business if it didn't stop at major sights. Pick up a tour brochure from any company and see where they "visit" and where they "see."

I think there are too many people who are brainwashed into thinking larger tours only stop at shopping places and then drive by the major sights on route to more shopping places. And then, if you want to see something, you have to pay extra. And at night, they only stay at huge American style hotels.

This is so ridiculous. In major cities, larger tours will stay in bigger hotels. But in smaller cities and towns, it's not unusual for a tour group to stay in a 20-25 room hotel which is run by the owners. The tour would virtually take over the hotel for the night. What's fun about some of these is that you are staying in a smaller town in more than likely, the only hotel in town. How better to mingle with the locals.

On an RS tour everything is included. You pay for it whether you want it or not. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying that's the way it is. On other tours, you get the basic sightseeing, and then you have a choice of extra sightseeing with a guide or free time.

I wish someone would really compare tour for tour. I was shocked to read on some RS tours through Rome you are free to visit the Trevi fountain on your own. I don't know one "big bus tour" that doesn't walk the group to the Trevi fountain.

And on most of the big bus tours, local guides (we call them "step-on guides") are standard in places like London, Paris, Rome/Vatican, Pompeii, Venice, and so on.)

More than likely, you will travel with more than 25 people. But that helps to keep the bottom line low.

(continued)

But in the end, in general, the type of people that travel on a big bus tour and a RS tour are different. RS people are usually borderline independent travelers who don't mind traveling light, don't mind basic hotels, could probably do the trip on their own but choose to let someone else do the planning for them.

Most people who take big bus tours do not want to travel independently, do not want to be limited to carry-on size luggage, want bellman service at hotels, and in general want a higher level of comfort in their hotels.

The quality of sightseeing, however, is very similar. Which tour to take is a personal preference.

If you want to see RS tours bashed and big bus tours touted, go to other forums that cater to the big bus tourist (Frommers, Fodors, etc.). There are many unkind words about RS and his way of traveling. (I don't post on those boards, just glance at them.)

As for me, I travel independently with just a carry-on. I might take a day tour here and there...but the thought of sitting day after day on a coach, after the many hours I've already done it, doesn't sound very pleasing to me. (I had thought of taking an RS tour just to experience it...but once you've sat in the front of the bus, it's hard to sit in the back.)

Frank makes excellent points. On the two "other company" tours I have been on, everything has been included -- transportation, meals, housing, admissions, etc. There were no extra fees for anything, and our hotels were centrally located. And yes, we "visited" everything we were scheduled to go to, we didn't just drive by. One of my "big bus" tours had only 15 people on it, which is smaller than many RS tours. We also had a national guide who traveled everywhere with us, and local guides at each city. My point is that for what you get, RS tours are more expensive than the tours I have taken, and I've had amenities that RS tours do not have.

Lee, it was interesting to read your post about visiting the small Church in Normandy where the two Medics from the 101st Airborne served with such distinction. I've been there also, and as I recall it's near a small town called Angoville au Plain.

I found the story of the events that took place there extremely interesting and moving. I noticed the stains on the wooden Pew and the other damage, and it's remarkable that of the 85+ people they treated (Allied & German soldiers as well as civilians) they only lost one.

It was also impressive that they were able to enforce a "rule" not to allow any weapons in the Church, which wasn't received well by either side as the cross roads changed hands several times over a period of a few days.

It's not surprising that one of the RS tours would stop at such an interesting and unique historical site!

Cheers!

Yes, Ken, that is the town we visited. It was truly a "once in a lifetime" experience and I doubt if many tours or independent travelers would ever go there. The towns folk told us the stories (through our guide interpreting) and everyone was hushed in amazement. You could feel that this was a sacred place.

Frank said: "RS people are usually borderline independent travelers who don't mind traveling light, don't mind basic hotels, could probably do the trip on their own but choose to let someone else do the planning for them."

Amen to that! My first trip to Italy, I signed up for a RS tour because I was new to European travel and going "alone" and it made both my mother and me feel better that I wouldn't be traveling around solo, not knowing anything about Rome.

Now that I'm a lot more familiar with Italy, I would probably not take ANY tour, but go alone or with friends and family. But if I went to a new place, such as Turkey, I'd take a tour. While I'm sure there are many tours that are just as good as RS's, I happen to like that particular style and so would sign up for one of those first. That doesn't mean that RS tours are the end-all, be-all, but I like them and I consider them a good value for what I want.

To return to the original poster's topic--please don't be concerned. I was mildly disappointed in the reviews of our tour hotel in Florence, which complained that it was dark, dingy, and expensive. While I didn't like it as much as the hotel we stayed at in Rome (Alimandi), and I would not not opt to stay there on my own, the hotel was perfectly fine. It was definitely centrally located, near the Ponte Vecchio, and I didn't find it dark or dingy at all.

Keep in mind that the hotel experience of individuals can be different than those of the tours. For one thing, price considerations don't really come into play (hence I wasn't worried about our Florence hotel being 'overpriced'). Finally, the amount of time you spend at your hotel is pretty minimal. Yes, it's nice to be in a nice hotel, but all tour hotels are generally of good quality (3-stars at least) and you most likely won't be taking advantage of much of the hotel's offerings beyond the bed and the breakfast--especially in a tour that shifts locations.

Nancy, I would like to know the name of this big bus tour you took that had only 15 people on it, that is absolutely amazing, that is like some of the very expensive more exclusive van type tours.. that sounds great!

Frank, sorry, your reasoning, experienced or not doesn't all add up. My MIL took a Globus tour, she found it ANNOYING to be nickel and dimed for "extra" sightseeing,, excuse me, but since many who take the tours are not experienced to begin with, they don't always know which other sites to see, and she did not feel the tour guide was helpful in helping those who elected to sightsee ont their own . The big bus tour she took, Globus Italy, did not teach them how to use public transport in each city, since they were bused around all the time, so they had to figure it out on their own. RS tours use public transport, you are taught how to use it( not just led around) and given passes. You are not just sightseeing , you are learning how to travel. On my tour so many families had never been out of the US ,they said they felt way more confidant to travel indepently after the tour.

Also, on our tour we were taken to Trevi Fountain, so I don't know what you are talking about, as well as Spanish Stairs, the Pantheon, Coliseum, ST Peters, etc etc.

Anyways, I really think that unless one has been on a RS tour it is not that helpful to offer views on what it is like,, so Frank, perhaps you should try one, simply because you will then be very qualified to compare the two products as you are an expert in what one offers , but not the other( yet)!

What I find funny is how some people act like they are better travellers because "they would NEVER take a tour" ,, its too funny, I have travelled independently for many years ( decades, LOL), months of backpacking when a young lady with my friend, to many visits now with family, friends, and also SOLO.
I am definately a confindent independent traveller, but the RS tour was fun, and well run.

Pat, it was a Uniworld tour to China. It actually included airfare, all meals, housing, admissions, and a four night river cruise on the Yangtze. Nothing very exclusine or expensive -- in fact, we went because of the great price (13 days, $2795 for EVERYTHING, three years ago). The bus was intended for more, we just had a small group.

Pat, perhaps you shouldn't make comments about other tours until you take one if you don't think I should comment on RS tours (which I never said anything negative about.) (And you got your opinions from one person who didn't enjoy it. I've taken numerous tours through Buchart Gardens just north of you. Most enjoyed it. A few thought it was a waste of time. Should I follow your lead and tell people it's a waste of time because I heard a negative comment or should I say most people enjoy it?)

And isn't it possible that some people travel differently than you do and don't want to learn how to take public transport, and like the idea of a coach driving them around rather than having to take public transport. (I've had many a pax who were afraid to take foreign subway systems no matter how much I tried to convince them it was safe.)

Should they not be allowed to travel because they don't adhere to the "Rick Steves/Pat in Victoria" way?

And instead of comparing RS tours to Globus or Cosmos where extras are common, how about comparing an RS tour to a comparably priced tour where everything is included. Say Tauck or Maupintour or Unitour.

Nancy that was an incredible deal, lucky you to have found it!! With airfare included that sounds like a once in a lifetime find!!

Frank, I didn't say everyone should take a RS tour, the RS literature and online information provided makes if VERY clear his tours are NOT for everyone. I absolutely agree his tours are not for everyone, those who want luxury or handholding had better look elsewhere. Wimps and whiners are really not welcome( hey I am not kidding, the guide is brutally honest right from beginning about that)

There were serveral special extras on provided on our tour that were not mentioned anywhere, nor were we charged for them.
Drinks on the gondola ride, champane toast in Paris, all drinks at last night party, and a special stop in Bolzano to visit the South Tyrol Museum to see the 5000 year old Ice Man mummy,, our guide was able to offer this as we had made good time( on drive leaving Italy for Switerland) and he said it was either we get one hour for lunch in town, or we could grab lunches to go and visit museum, of course group far preferred that idea!I thnk on a big bus tour that sort of flexiblity might be difficult.

As for your Butchard Garden comment, how silly, I would just tell people what MOST people thought,, and explain that a few disagreed, just like any tourist site.

MOST people who have taken a RS tour love them, and only a few don't( I personally haven't read a reveiw or feedback by anyone who did not like tour, and I know feedbacks do not have negative comments edited, as I saw that they posted my feedback as given to them), but I think we can all say we have heard from at least one person who we know who has taken a big bus tour and not liked them.

I do agree though Frank that many people have overly negative views of such tours, they are a good fit for some people, and they love them.
I also think it is hard to compare all the different companies, as even if size of group is similar , experiences will not be.

FRank, I do think I should let you know that I do believe YOU were a good tour guide, I can tell just by the way you post here that you care about travel very much and have a lot of knowledge,, so perhaps you need to realize that some of the negative thoughts you hear some poeple posting about big bus tours( and tours in general, including RS ) are not about you, or your tours, when you conducted them.
I don't want you to think that I think all BB tours are bad,, but I do think they are not for everyone, and I do not think they compare to RS tours. I acknowledge the RS tours are not cheaper then many when you just look at intial price, but you get more then you pay for in many ways, ( like we had two guides on our tour, for only 26 people, pretty good ratio I think!).

Nancy, one thought on what a great price you paid,, although airfare would be very high, I imagine actual land costs in some parts of China are alot cheaper then land costs in a major Europeon city like Paris or London..

I've been on several RS tours. I would trust them to put us up in a good hotel. I wouldn't describe RS tours as "everything included." Some meals and activities are "on your own." It's hard to find a good comparison tour company, because they all have a little different style and include different percs. Most allow for more luggage than the RS tours. Some include airfare. Some seem less expensive but they book you into hotels that are far from city centers. I like the people who run the RS tours, and I like the people who take them.

Frank, as I said, I'm not referring to "all of these tours, as I'm sure many are wonderful," as I'm sure the ones you led were. Indeed, I have a great friend who has taken Collette tours and loved them, and from what I have researched, I believe I would enjoy those, too. But I have read many brochures and seen that there are extra expenses incurred with SOME tour groups. I am not interested, however, in any of the type that we saw between Paris and Rome, buses packed with people and following a lady or man with an umbrella or sign. Just my preference. And several times on the RS bus, we took turns in the front seat, so we were up there quite a bit, sipping on our cherry beer. Yum.

I have taken 2 Trafalgar tours and 2 RS tours. I was completely unprepared for the extra side trips for $$ with Trafalgar once I started the tour. With RS tours, I felt informed before departure of what truly was included and what I needed to pay for myself (ie lunches I had to buy myself), so there were no surprises.

I stayed at the Londres Eiffel last year as part of a RS tour and I was very pleased with the hotel and the location. The hotel was very clean, small rooms, very freindly staff. Happy Travels.

Hello Becky,

Please do not worry.

My husband and I stayed in this area last September and LOVED it! You are close enough to the sites but are among the locals. We purposely picked this area and were not sorry. Who wants to vacation with everyone else from the US or Canada? You get a real feel for the people. Eat at the local restaurants and enjoy hearing no one speaking english! Although most can and they will be so nice to you - you will be impressed. We would not hesitate to book in this area again. We walked everywhere or took the subway - it was all so easy. Wish I was going with you - enjoy!

Pat, Shanghai and Beijing are major world cities, just like Paris or New York, and have the same sky-high hotel prices. When I priced out what each of our hotels would have cost independently, it came to almost as much as the whole trip. I wouldn't say that the on-the-ground prices were any cheaper. We ate at local restaurants (nice ones), stayed at 5-star hotels, and flew Economy Plus to and from China from Chicago, nonstop. (I actually priced the roundtrip airfare at that time, too, and it was running about $1600 to Beijing.) I think we just lucked in to an incredible deal.

The point I was trying to make was that there are all different types of tours. The only way to judge them is what's right for you. And what's right for you, may be wrong for someone else. (And I was trying to counter the BS that Rick was saying about "big bus tours" as if they were all the same.)

I get quite a few people PM me with questions about tours and asking to help them decide which ones to take. I ask a few question and about 90% of the time I suggest they go on a RS tour. (It has a lot to do with their travel philosophy, independence, need for luxury, etc.)

Now that we have that settled, let me tell you about the most unusual tour company I ever ran into:

This company took people (mostly Germans) on tours of the U.S. They specialized in a certain type of travel. Each coach carried about 20 people. The front half was like any other coach--reclining seats, big windows, etc. The back half had cubicles approximatelsy 3 feet by 3 feet byabout 6 1/2 feet long. This is where they slept. No need for a hotel. We used to call them "coffin" tours. They were, as you can imagine, very inexpensive.

I spoke to a few people on one of these type tours and they absolutley loved them

As said earlier, a good tour director can make or break a tour. I've seen my share of good ones and sadly, my share of bad ones. Luckily, the bad ones don't last too long.

But it's also the group dynamic that has a lot to say. I like the RS philosophy about no grumps on tour. One or two, if trying hard, can spoil a tour for almost everyone. I know. I've had my share.

Nancy, I cannot believe you got 5 star hotels, and premium economy flights for that price,, I mean, I DO beleive you , but that had to be a total freak occurance,, I mean it.. if you EVER see a deal like that again, please tell me,, I would take it in a heart beat!!!

I don't think you could even get a low quality tour and air for that much anywhere, let alone the great quality you seemed to get.. lucky you guys!!!

Did you use a travel agent to find that deal or did you find it yourself online?? I would love to know if there is a website I could be looking at for deals like that!
Thanks

Hi Becky:

I took my 5th RS tour last year. I went to Paris and the south of france. In Paris we stayed at the Hotel Castex. It was quite a way from the Eiffel tower. Take the Batobus (a hop on hop off boat)that stops at the base of the tower. It is a very cool way to see the monuments from the water and get a unique view of Paris.

All the hotels we stayed at were wonderful, clean and in a very good location. In Sarlot we stayed in a hotel that was built into the city walls. I had a room of my own with a large balcony. Guess where the wine tasting party was that night.

I have taken other tours and traveled independently. After all this I am a confirmed RS traveler. On the GAS tour we went by the town where my grandmother was born and grew up. On the Venice tour our guide was an american married to an Italian. The stories about her having a baby in Italy and living next door to her mother-in-law were hysterical and added so much. On the best of italy tour, the guide had studied architechture in Rome and that also added so much. We went to a winery and saw a hidden 1000 year christian alter.

This is why I have chosen to take Rick's tours. I believe that I get more than I pay for. The tour guides and the local guides are fantastic. You will have a wonderful time. Why don't you research the area where the hotel is. See what is there and plan to get to know the area. It might be nicer than where you thought you would be.

But what it all boils down to is that you need to chose your travel style and do not knock what other people like and feel is a good value just because it is not your style or you have not tried it. We are all different and that is why there are so many ways to travel.

what ever method you chose. happy travels.

I wouldn't worry - you will be in a safe area, close to a subway entrance. Part of the fun is discovering new places! My husband and I went on the Paris & the Heart of France last May and we stayed in the Marais district - it was lovely. You'll be no more than a 15 minute subway ride from anywhere in Paris. And for what it's worth, we've planned trips to Europe on our own and will be taking a second RS tour this May (Best of the Adriatic). I'm at a point in my life where I will gladly pay for someone to make the hotel and travel arrangements for me. It's worth it!

Though I have never been on RS tour, from all my research regarding his tours, feedbacks and trip reports, I have never heard anyone complain about the hotels. Sure they may not be 5 star resorts, but it seems like they try to place tours in hotels where you will get the most culture experience out of your trip. As long as I have a clean bathroom, a clean bed and feel safe, I am good. Don't let it disappoint you. You are not traveling across the pond to stay in a hotel, get out and see the sights. I also be traveling May/June. I think both of us will be thankful just to get out of the Arizona heat! :)

Kristen, that is so true! Any break from the heat is great and if we have to go to Europe for that, all the better!

I've done more research on the hotels and the one in Paris seems like it's in a nice location and I'm looking forward to exploring the area and tasting all of the wonderful food. I'm sure the hotels will be fine and if they're not, like someone commented, it adds to the experience and makes it that much more memorable.

Hi Becky and every one..
Two miles away..just a hop,step and a jump.My goodness you will walk that far in your first hour of the tour.

We are taking our first ETBD trip this year. ETBD just called last night to cancel our trip. They offered spots on another trip if we could arrange it or a full refund. We are damned and determined to go this year! They offered to cover any costs associated with changes to our flights. Nice touch! With a little work today, we are re-booked, have new flights, have the hotels booked for a longer pre and post tour. (I haven't talked with the boss yet though. 8-). I spoke with four hotels ( on Rick's list), the people on the other end were quick to change with "that's no problem". BTW. All spoke beautiful English so I didn't have to use my French.

Now that we are going... again. I cannot wait!

So Kent, I'm curious, why did they cancel your trip and does that happen often?

There has be debates here about the cost of RS tours. I thinks it comes down to this~~a lot of people feel that the price is good and they get their money's worth from the tour. People that go on these tours do not have to research, book hotels, book tickets, etc., which is what a lot of peole like. I would not consider going on a RS tour for this reason, a 14 day tour to England with RS for myself and husband would cost $7290.00 not including air fare. We have gone to the UK for three weeks including air fare for $4000.00, so I wouldn't go on a RS tour. I can do all the research, book all the tickets (even the ones for museums that let you by pass the long lines) etc., I feel that we see as much and learn as much as the people on a RS tour. So which way is right or wrong? Neither, it is totally up to each people to how they want to spend their money and time.

Three Weeks ago in Edmonds, RS had a full day of classes promoting his tours. Here is some information he gave in a talk about how he sees the year ahead and how he makes money:

--he needs a full bus of 25 people to make a profit

--last year he took 12,000 people on 400 tours. With this economy, this year he expects to take about 1/2 to 2/3 or that number of people on 250 tours.

--guidebook sales are down 30%, tour bookings are down 30%

--"I can't make any money with 18 people on a bus," he said. "I need 25 people on a bus to make money. Our job is to carefully monitor how many departures we're going to open up. We have a lot of tours booked that we haven't opened up yet until we're assured those existing ones are filled. How does a tour company like mine make money? I talk 25 people into sharing one vehicle instead of 25 people renting cars or getting rail passes. Right there I make enough money to be profitable. The rest of it as far as your concerned--eating, sleeping, transportation, entertainment, guides, is just a wash whether you're on your own or sharing a big bus."

This was taken from a video of this speech found on this website.

Pat, we found that deal in a tiny ad in the back of Budget Travel magazine. We had never heard of Uniworld before that, and were a little unsure of the whole thing, but it turned out unbelieveably great. That's why we jumped on it so quickly ourselves!

Becky,
As I understand it, there had been a lot of cancellation on that specific timeline we chose. So there weren't enough paid seats. As it was a 21 day trip, the economy must be having a negative effect on sales.

I don't know if it happens often.

Ah such is life!

Be thankful you are not staying in the hotels Rick has listed in his guide books - they are full of Americans and Canadians! I have used many of his hotel recommendations in the past six years and altho they are spot on, I go to Europe to meet Europeans, not North Americans. This is the only complaint I have about RS, and not his fault really!!!

I did wonder when someone was going to mention the profit. Rick does not do these tours out of the goodness of his heart, he has to be making money at it. Where does that money come from - you. You are paying him extra to do all those things for you that you do not want to do yourself. Service costs money. How much does the tour guide make on your tours, on call 24/7 ? How much does each guide make in each of the cities you go to?

If Rick would like to sell more books, maybe he should lower the price a bit? They are rather expensive,considering all that information is online to find for free. He might want to pay a bit more attention to what is going on in this website. Other companies are doing that. They are getting tons of info for free from their website. Suggestions, updates, their editors are active online. Here, we are pretty much on our own and don't really ever know if anyone at Rick Steves pay any attention to what we write or not.

I for one would not want to go on a large bus tour. It is too easy to find my own way and cheaper. But I am used to traveling around Europe and I do understand that for people are aren't comfortable with that, it is helpful and fun. Sort of like going to camp, making buddies and seeing Europe at the same time. There is something to be said for that, just not for me.

I dont understand why it is such a big deal. While on holiday, hotel rooms are for sleeping and showering. Bring earplugs in case its noisy, and slippers in case its cold. Simple as that. You will be able to get to your destinations each day even if tis not on the main drag. Its more fun being more local than staying in a touristy area.

Becky, you might not be a "tour" person. I'm not one--I could never relinquish control of my hotel, sightseeing, restaurants or anything else to someone else! I want to decide where I stay, what I see, etc etc. If you took the time to do the research on trip advisor, you sound like the kind of person, like me, that might be happier planning their own trip. I'm sure you'll have a great time on this one but maybe go independently next time!

"They are getting tons of info for free from their website. Suggestions, updates, their editors are active online. Here, we are pretty much on our own and don't really ever know if anyone at Rick Steves pay any attention to what we write or not."

There is a specific section of the Graffiti Wall for comments on the guidebooks. I have used it on a few occassions, and the corrections have been in subsequent editions (not that I'm claiming exclusive credit, I'm sure other readers pointed out the same problems that I noticed).

Becky,

We took the 7-day RS Paris tour and stayed at Hotel Londres Eiffel. Trust me, you won't be missing anything; the rooms were tiny (okay, so must are in Europe..I'm just trying to make you feel better), there were several things in "disrepair" in our room. There was one sort of helpful, pleasant front desk clerk and another very unhelpful, unpleasant desk clerk; just some facts about the service we received when we were there. But faces change.

We enjoyed the tour but I found I wasn't 'up' on everything--sites, history, locations--because I didn't have to do as much research in preparation for this trip. I find we have a better connection to the places we visit when we've done our homework. You learn so much when you plan your own days/transportation/sites/local tour guides, etc.

I must admit though, that when we were in Paris, and other European cities, our restaurant choices haven't been very successful. However, on the RS tour all the restaurants we went to as a group were wonderful! I vowed to pay more attention to resturant recommendations from RS books and other non-RS websites/books.

Taking another RS tour would be cost-prohibitive for us, but I am looking at other tour companies--RS is not the only "small-group" tour company (anyone heard of and/or have experience with Intrepid Travler?)--as a way to mix up the highly-intensive planning that goes into a do-it yourself trip and a no-worries-everything-is taken-care-of-for-you kind of trip.

Back to your main point: you'll probably be better off at the Hotel Apollinaire :-)

Lisa .. re: Intrepid, I have heard (well, read, it is all on the 'net) enough good things about Intrepid that after my try at a RS trip this summer, I want to try a trip with Intrepid next year.

A thought re: making money .. aside from RS' site, I love the forums at fodors.com. The site is about to go through a major change but minor changes I have noticed along the way are how there are so many more little ads, here and there. I just block them out of mind. While it occurs to me that I like the look of a site without ads everywhere, it is true that a site is not for its users fun, it is to create some income for the company that runs the site.

Big differences of opinions on this post. As far as doing a R/S tour vs travelling on your own, has anyone put a pencil to exact cost of doing it yourself vs the tour. I am doing 4 days in Normandy and then the GAS tour in Sept which is $3495. Travelling alone, I'm sure I could do it cheaper but going to each of the places the tour goes would require lots of train travel, hotel research, etc, etc. For those going the first time, I think most are a little apprehensive as how to do it and what to do. On the research I did, I think I could have saved about $900 but would have no guide input on the places I visit, no group to have fun with plus several other negatives but also several positives. My next trip will be on my own but this time, I decided to spend a little more and just enjoy.
Becky, as far as being disappointed with a hotel that you are not getting to stay at, that would be the last of my worries. I'm not travelling 5000 miles to enjoy my hotel. I would hope the most you would be in your room would be about 6 to 8 hours a night for sleeping and preparing for another wonderful day in Europe. Most of us would sleep in a tent for the chance to enjoy Europe more often.
Don't forget the NO GRUMPS POLICY! Enjoy your trip.

Becky: Relax, the hotels will be great. Of course, I don't know that for certain, but with two RS tours under my belt I feel safe in saying so. Regarding the criticisms of RS tours I would say that the list of sights and activities on the brochures or websites don't include the knowledge of the guides, the care you'll receive, and the fun you will have with the group. I've traveled in Europe two other times for two months and four months and there is a tradeoff for doing it cheap and independently, versus having the knowledge and experience afforded by a guided tour.
Happy travels.

So this thread really got me thinking. The pros and cons to taking a RS tour are numerous, but what about an Andy Steves tour? I want to fall off of scooters on narrow mountain roads and crash on random French girls couches and I just can't get that with an RS tour ;)

So come on Andy, when are you going to get in the biz???

I don't know about the hotel in Rome but...
In Paris, I don't think you'd want to be in a hotel near the Eiffel Tower anyway. Your hotel is in a fine area - Montparnasse! I'm sure you'll be taken to see the Eiffel Tower. Also, the metro in Paris is wonderful, cheap, and easy to figure out - you can go anywhere! Paris is a magnificent city. Have a baba au rhum for me!

I have travelled to Europe with different companies, but I was so impressed with RS 14-day ETBD last year I am now planning another RS tour to another region. Yes, joining a RS tour, you don't stay in big hotels, but you will enjoy a lot of friendship, from your tour mates and the hotel staffs. The tours are usually small (24-28 people), but the tour guides are incredibly knowlegeable and helpful. Many tour mates become friends after the tour is over. Becky, I am confident that you will have a lot of fun, especially the two days in Switzerland hiking the Alps. Our experience there was amazing! I also loved the food they served at the hotel. Yummy.

Yes, RS tours are more expensive, but I'd do it over again and again (when my budget says yes!).

"As far as doing a R/S tour vs travelling on your own, has anyone put a pencil to exact cost of doing it yourself vs the tour."

If you click on Ricks 10 commandments on this website he says "I define a successful tour as a finely-crafted, maximum-experience trip for the same price a traveler would pay to go independently. What an independent traveler may appear to save in dollars can be quickly drained by time-and-smile-sapping logistics (hotel reservations, transportation hassles, researching sights, and so on) — a very real cost. My goal is for you to end up a good 30% ahead of independent travelers in rewarding-experiences-per-day."

Having taken a tour, and traveled to Europe a few times on our own, I'd say that what he writes is true. You need to consider not just the cost of 14 days in Europe vs what he charges, but the cost of doing all the tour does in 14 days. My estimate is that it would take 18-20 days to replicate what the tour covers. Add in the extra lodging, the cost of guides, etc. and it would come out on par, IMHO.

Something I have NOT seen mentioned regarding the price of RS tours is how much is included!! I did the 21-day Best of Europe tour & I calculated the cost of doing everything on my own...There is NO way we could've done it cheaper!! We literally spent about a hundred dollars in 21 days on our own meals, etc (mostly on gelato but nevermind that! ;). The only thing extra was souvenirs! Even though they say all breakfasts & half your dinners, we ended up with MUCH more than that. The meals were so well planned that some days we only ate 2 meals, but were full!

Also, all the museum passes, entrance fees, etc...You have to add up ALL that!! I think it mostly depends on how much ground you're covering. I wouldn't take just a Paris tour, for example, but I definitely take a tour when I'm going all over the place!! Just to save myself the hassle of dealing with multiple hotels/transportation headaches.

And as far as our Paris hotel on the RS 21 day tour, it was also in Montparnasse...and it was FABULOUS!! It was over 250 euros a night to book it yourself!! Very fancy, so you're probably in luck with that change!! ;) I only went to the Eiffel Tower area to go to the Eiffel Tower. The rest of the time I was in other cool spots, so it wasn't disappointing at all!

Hi Becky. I have taken 2 tours and in both, I was pleasantly surprised with the extras that the tour guides included that was not listed as part of the tour. For instance, a wine tasting evening and a mini-tour of Monaco (on a day that was to be a free day). The guides were readily available for advise on where to eat a meal, find groceries, or listen to a concert. During the tour, it was easy to join others for a meal or a walk which was great when I was travelling solo. I was pleased with all the hotels during the tours, a mix of splendid hotels to plain with great location and always clean with freindly staff. The tour seemed to hit the towns on market day and we were encouraged to go to the markets; this became one of my favorite part of France, I am entranced by the open air markets and purchased lots of great food for picnics. I was surprised by the fridges in some of the rooms, so shopping at the market also saved me lots of $$$ when I had picnic suppers in my room with a glass of wine, in my pj's with my feet up (because my feet were sore from so much walking!!). I have since signed up for my 3rd tour, again going solo and I have added 2 cities to tour by myself before and after the tour, I am getting braver. Happy Travels.

Becky

Frankly I'm disappointed that RS has started using hotels away from Rue Cler. For years I've counted on not having RSers showing up at my personal little jewel--for 50E, btw.

Now I see that they're moving outwards to areas such as Montparnasse(a fab neighbourhood btw)...thats getting just a little toooo close. Thanks for the heads up.