A Dozen Things to Skip, But You Probably Won't (w/Alternatives)

Personally, I loved Stonehenge. I also liked Avebury, though not as much as Stonehenge. It was nice being able to walk around the stones at Avebury, but nothing is as spectacular as Stonehenge to me.

I also loved the Cotswolds, but I can't say I liked that region any more than Bath. The roman baths and the Georgian architecture make Bath a wonderful destination.

I'm with you on the Eiffel Tower -- we did it at night -- as well as wax museums and crime/torture museums -- not my cup of tea. I didn't go on any type of boat on the Seine when I was in Paris this fall; it didn't look all that appealing and we ran out of time.

The only other place I've been to on your list is Honfleur, which I loved. Interestingly, I am thinking of stopping in Colmar for my next trip. Why didn't you like it?

The only thing I can think of that I have done in Europe that I thought was a waste of money was the Jorvik Viking Center in York, England. I only went there because of our kids, but even they thought it was cheesy.

As they say, to each his own.

It's not horrible or anything. Just so over-hyped on this site that folks go way the heck out of their way to see it, plan on spending several nights there, etc. Probably only four or five hours maybe for you. Do it. I'm in and out of europe a lot; saw it written up in an RS book, detoured to see it, and had it in the rear-view mirror after a short walk and a bite to eat. There's a bunch of small places equal to it all over the place. Half-timbered buildings, canals, places to eat with unmbrellas. A lot like Dinan, Honfleur, etc.

Whoo hoo on Jorvik. I forgot about that one.

Wow, that's quite a hack job on places that many people actually adore, including me. I guess that as with everything, it's a matter of taste and opinion.

As to Colmar, I spent two days there and it wasn't enough. Loved the town and the visit to the Unterlinden. Sure, there are lots of cute towns everywhere in Europe and if one spends more than a couple of hours in one, then they may actually get a better perspective that would warrant an opinion.

Bath is incredible and I don't even know how it can be compared to the Cotswolds. Apples and oranges.

Sienna is magical. One or two days was enough for me, but I have been twice and would go again.

I disagree with everything on Ed's list except the wax museums, but who the heck goes to wax museums, anyway?

Hmm.

Of the twelve item you mention, I've done only 2. Not sure what that says ;0.

I've seen the Eifel tower, from a distance, when I was in Paris on business (medical equipment). It was pretty.

I've also spent some time on the Rhein. I'm not sure how you can criticize Rhein castles. There are only two authentic castles (Rheinfels and Marksburg) on the Rhein (or at least between Bingen and Koblenz). They are both very worth seeing, if only for historical value. The rest (Stahleck, Schönburg, et al) are just ruins restored for commercial value.

who the heck goes to wax museums, anyway?

Considering Madame Tussauds is London's top tourist attraction, it's safe to say most everybody. It's one of those silly things you have visit once in your life.

One person's "must skip" is another person's "top thing to see."

Hey Ed, I applaud your effort, though of course I don't agree with all. We all need to hear the other side of travel recommendations sometimes. And we all need chill out a little when hearing that someone else didn't find something as magical as we did. Different strokes, don't you know...

Anyway, you have a big pair of holiday balls for daring to post this. Good for you.

How about starting a thread called something like "A dozen reasons why renting a car is better than using public transport" That would be fun :)

Just want to say we loved Marksburg on the Rhine.

Randy... did you really have to type that last line???? Oh boy.

How about the top ten reasons to rent a car in Europe:

Number 10. Sitting for hours in a small, cramped European car,

Number 9. No space for luggage,

Number 8. You have to delay the start of your trip to get to the rental office (usually using public transportation) and complete the paperwork,

Number 7. The driver, at least, has to keep his eyes on the road, not the scenery,

Number 6. Finding a parking space,

Number 5. Getting lost,

Number 4. Having to stop to use the toilet, for meals,

Number 3. You're exposed to liability if you damage the car,

Number 2. Traffic tickets,

and, the number 1 reason to rent a car in Europe,

It's more expensive

One other "why?"

I visited the crime and torture museum (or whatever it's called) at the Tower in London (it was included with admission, along with the crown jewels, another total waste of time). I later avoided the similar "museum" in Rothenburg. I abhor these "attractions", which usually have nothing, to very little, to do with what you went there to see. They are nothing more than tourist traps.

For April: On your third trip to Italy, note the "Welcome to ......." sign; and count the number of "n"'s in Siena. That was mean of me, but it bugs me that everbody mispills it.

For Lee on castles: You got me. Forgot about Rheinsfels and Marksburg, was thinking of the slew of junk. One the other hand, one day I'll stick your prejudiced tail in a CAR and show you the castles in Wales. I'd do it by train, but you'd sneak off and leave me and I'd never figure out how to get home -- just like PoorOldCharley riding around underneath Boston.

For Norma: You do realize, of course, that this whole thread was just to get you to admit that you hang around torture museums?

For Randy on cars: Not while Lee is still sucking air. He just about guts me every time I mention the word. The sad part is that I'm beginning to think that he has a point from time to time.

For Lee on cars: Thbppbbbsssssst! (Never tried to spell the rasberry sound before -- use your imagination.)

After 7 trips driving in Germany, Austria and Italy (Dolomites)

10) Never felt cramped in our small European car. Some were very comfortable. No we don't rent high end cars... always economy cars.

9) Have always had enough space for our luggage.

8) Average time spent at the rental counter... 20 minutes.

7) I see the scenery fine from behind the wheel.

6) Always found parking relatively easy. We don't go to big cities, not what we're interested in.

5) Got lost maybe three times in over 80 days driving in these countries.

4) Don't we all need to stop for a toilet or meals? You don't only use the toilets and eat only on trains do you?

3) True. Haven't had that problem so far.

2) Never got a ticket.

1) We find the cost pretty reasonable. Especially considering...

We start out when we want to.
We stop wherever and whenever we feel like it.
Never have to check our watches to see if we'll make the next train or bus.
We don't have to carry our luggage around with us.

To each his/her own. One likes trains, others prefer to drive. Can't we just leave it at that?

Paul

I was just trying to stir up trouble with the old car vs. train question, of course ;)

The reality is that there is often a good case to be made for either, depending on your style, needs and preferences.

But there are also plenty of circumstances for which having a car is silly or even borderline insane (Paris & London) AND circumstances for which limiting yourself to public transport in a sort of quasi-religious fervor to spread a philosophy to whoever will listen is counterproductive on a helpline like this.

I was kind of disappointed to see the negative reference to Colmar, as I just added it to my Itinerary for 2010.

After reading about that area both in the Guidebook and on the net, Rick's recommendation for spending a couple of days in Colmar, along with day trips to Strasbourg and other nearby towns along the wine route sounds like a good plan to me.

Perhaps my opinion will change after I've seen the place?

Cheers!

Ed: You are right, grammar and spelling errors are a pet peeve of mine too; you may want to go back and check your last two posts for the like. :)

I think that as with everything there are people who like them and people that don't. Thank goodness, or everyone would vacation at the exact same spots. For example: RS and everyone on Graffiti Wall rave about Italy Farm Stay. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

It is nice to hear contrasting opinions and have a dialogue about the pros and cons. Thanks for the thread, Ed.

Rudesheim on the Rhine - what a tacky little tourist trap of a town. Why people want to go there is beyond me.

Rick says don't go to Heidelberg, but I think it is a beautiful city. If Mark Twain loved it, there must be something good there.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed the wax museum in London, it was a hoot! We laughed a lot in there. I enjoyed seeing the crown jewels in London too.

Have always wanted to see Stone Henge.

My take is that there is something for everyone. What I like may not be what you like and at the end of the day, what difference does it make? Some people are bored to tears in the Forum, but adore opera. Others think a walk through a WW1 battlefield sounds like a complete waste of time, but want to visit 10 Christmas Markets in a row. Which one is wrong?

Like the Eurostar,, like city center to city center,, hate ferries( I like on an island anyways,, so sick of them ).

Bath is interesting. I like seeing the old Roman ruins and exhibits at the Baths.

ET,, hey,, I don't go up it anymore,, but I always take a walk onto the Pont Des Arts at 10pm to watch it twinkle,, and I never tire of that.

I've done four and liked them, plus some of the alternatives. I guess I'm easy to please.

Certain things listed are clearly not for me. Even if they are loved by many, they're aimed at a different audience.

The one thing I would add, risking public scorn and ridicule, is "folk evenings" anywhere. Overpriced tourist traps IMHO.

Lee,

I think you meant ten reasons NOT to rent a car. When I read your post, I thought, "That's interesting. Lee giving reasons TO rent a car?"

I would add the Romantic Road. Nothing wrong with it, but there's very little in the way of scenery here that you couldn't see on dozens of other country roads in the same region.

April: Others misspill, I only make typos. But, in defense of your own fine self, one of the Siena visitor bureau / chamber of commerce type web sites uses two "n"'s on the english version and only one when you switch to the italian version. The rest is a littoral translation as far as I can tell. Go figure!

For those of you planning to go to Colmar -- GO! It's a lovely little town worth at least a day or so.
I also love seeing Paris at sunset from the Eiffel Tower -- but then I just plain love Paris. It's become a last-night-in-Paris tradition for us.
Considering the season, I think maybe Ed is just trying to be the "Travel Grinch Who Stole Christmas"!

Ed- to each their own. I have to say I loved Stonehenge- but once was enough. Saw the Eiffel Tower -again once was enough and I refuse to return to Paris or even France after that one day trip (it was horrible). I enjoy Bath as a day trip from London, esp at Christmas market time, and for me a day trip of the Cotswolds once was enough. Have to agree about the Eurostar- no biggie, if it makes your trip easier, ok but don't "do it to have done it". Zuric is a place I'd add to your list- like NY city transplanted.

I'll agree with Jo here, I love Heidelberg, and we're going back there on our next trip to Germany.

I liked Colmar, but for different reasons than most grown-ups here. We took our 2-year-old son, it was small enough for us to walk around with him, so that was a big plus. There's also a toy museum there. And they had lots of those little sit-on toys on springs (there's probably a better name for them than that) just scattered randomly around the town. But the best part was in the middle of town -- a 100-year-old carousel next to a toddler playground with an awesome crepe stand right next to 'em. We hit that every day.

And I liked the Rhine castles, too. That's also on the list for our next trip to Germany. Plus taking the boat ride down the Rhine. So there.

I like the concept. Good thought-provoking list. I also like several of the comments (I'm realizing how often Jo says things I find very bright...)

I'll comment on things I'm experienced enough on to do so intelligently...

(1) Stonehenge (Avebury) -- AGREED.

(2) Any Rhine Castle (Any Welsh Castle) ... Haven't done a Wales castle day to know... but I would not pass up Reinfels Castle if traveling with kids... plus we took the time to ensure we were there on a day a medieval reenactment troup was present doing an archery demonstration (used staff at Pension Siebel in Munich to find out for us). That was awesome.

(3) Eiffel Tower in daylight (Eiffel Tower at night) -- AGREED.

(8) Bath (Cotswalds, Warwick (town, not castle)) -- Agreed, not from my experience, but I mentioned this to my Dad, and he agrees -- Cotswalds are top of his list.

(9) Grimmelwald (Grindelwald -- for the gondola lift at First) I can't agree -- I go with "do both" in this case... go back enough that you find your own favorite corner of each.

(11) Prague (Budapest, Krakow) -- DISAGREE. I did love Budapest... but Prague holds a special place in my heart.

Again -- very cool list. Thanks for taking the time to provoke some comment.

There really is nothing wrong with Colmar. We stayed in Riquewihr, however and just did a day trip to Colmar. It was touristy, but otherwise fine.

As for the car versus trains/transit. I really don't get the arguement against either. You get a car for the country and you take trains and metros between and in the bigger cities. Plan trips that group the sites accordingly.

I could not conceive giving up either, depending on where we were. But then I have my wife do all the driving and I navigate. Those European subcompacts are too small for me to see all the sightlines safely while driving.

As for the list, there is some truth to it, though I would ask anyone who ever took the train into Budapest who didn't immediately think about getting back on and leaving. Not the best looking area around that train station. Prague was kind of cool for me during our visit, though it was like a month after that devastating flood there.

In both of these cities, the zoos were really different and immensely interesting to visit. Not like zoos here at all.

Also, I love Siena and I love Assisi, but between the two, I prefer Siena.

Have been to one or two wax museums, and also that York town museum that was mentioned. Never again.

And sorry, but you HAVE to visit the Tour Eiffel at least once, but seeing it during December, all lit up, from across the Seine is not to be missed. Another amazing sight during Christmas is the Champ Elyses. Every intersection is a forest of decorated Christmas trees. Standing at one end looking up the lenght of the street just before midnight is stunning.

I have to say I loved Bath and Warwick. I have only done the Eiffel Tower during the day, as we were doing a day trip from London on the Eurostar. I can't wait to see it at night in April as all of my friends agree with you that it is not to be missed at night.

I am lucky in that I visited Stonehenge when one was still able to actually walk around and touch the stones (40 yrs. ago). Drove past it a few years ago and although I understand why they had to fence it off, the fence ruins the whole effect. Also loved the Colmar area 40 years ago when we spent the winter with a Canadian forces family across the Rhine in Germany. Does this mean that in Sept. when I re-visit this area I maybe won't like it??? I am probably the only one on this forum that can not understand what everyone sees in Siena! We visited it after spending a couple of weeks driving around and visiting the small towns of Umbria, and we were sorely disappointed with Siena - give me Assisi any day, but there are lots of other beautiful Umbrian towns. I much prefer the ruggedness of Umbria (the green heart of Italy) over Tuscany.

Yes! Stonehenge before the fence; when you had to push the sheep out the way. No tunnel; you just pulled over to the side of the road and wandered around. Those were the days!

We too went to Stonehenge when you could walk through it, living in Ireland, and able to take the car ferry places. This summer I will take our 16 yr old granddaughter and was thinking of a day trip to Bath and the Mad Max tour of Stonehenge and that Br. town. Now I am undecided. Any suggestions?

Ann

Ring of Kerry

Sorrento

Such a wide range of opinions on this forum...I love Sorrento and can never get enough of it!

I agree with you Barb, didn't like Siena at all.

To each his own is right!

We always go to get a good look of the Eiffel tower, and especially at night. No matter how many pics we have of it, this was the 4th time for us and we had to take pics of various angles.

Love the Eurostar, in spite of what happened while we were in the UK waiting to get to Paris.

Been to Bath and enjoyed it, but haven't been to the Cotswolds yet.

Awww . . I love Colmar, even though it IS touristy.
Ditto for Prague and Budapest.

As to the famous Car:Train debate,
I am a fan of BOTH! Like already mentioned by several posters, going from major city to major city, or from country to country, definitely take the train!

If you set out to explore a particular region, do consider a car. And why not do BOTH if it is applicable??!

If you do decide on renting a car, familiarize yourself with the traffic signage of the country you will be driving in. A good American friend of mine, on her first Europe trip, nearly took out the Google Earth car in Ireland last year ;-))