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68 year old plans two months in Europe next year

I’m planning my first trip to Europe in 2016, when I will be 68. Money and fear of flying means this is my last trip there also. I can be gone about 60-70 days. I’m healthy for my age, can walk lots. Am planning to stay in hostels for the most part in order to have enough money for sightseeing and experiences.

Interests are urban planning, art, history, food, international institutions, books, classical music, and Protestant history. A childhood interest in Switzerland has carried over, but otherwise I prefer to avoid rural areas. I’d like to come back with many photos suitable for my urban planning-related website.

I noticed on a recent trip that my stamina for toting around luggage isn’t what it used to be, so I’ve tried to really reduce my number of lodging changes. Below is my tentative list of hub cities and day trips, with time in each indicated. The big questions at this stage are: will I regret not visiting Vienna and Amsterdam? (Alternate wording: Is either of these more important as an art city than Venice?) Do route and length of stays seem wrong? All trips will be by train except where indicated; yes, I do long train trips in USA. Belfast and Edinburgh are included for family history reasons.

Aug. 31, Fly from Midwest to Boston, overnight flight to Dublin
Sept. 1-2, Dublin, 2 nights
Sept. 3-4, Belfast, 2 nights
Sept. 5-6, Train/ferry to Edinburgh, 2 nights
Sept. 7-16, London (day trips: Bath/Stonehenge in one day tour, Cambridge), 10 nights
Sept. 17-20, Geneva (possible day trips: Chamonix, Montreux, Zermatt, Bern, Basel) , 4 nights
Sept. 21-Oct. 3, Paris (day trips to Giverny, Chartres, Versailles, Nancy, Brussels), 13 nights
Oct. 4-10, Berlin (Dessau day trip), 6 nights
Oct. 11-12, Fly to Venice, 2 nights
Oct. 13-16, Florence, 4 nights
Oct. 17-24, Rome (Naples/Pompeii day trip), 8 nights
Oct. 25-29, Fly to Barcelona (Montserrat day trip), 5 nights
Oct. 30-Nov. 2, Madrid (Toledo day trip), 4 nights
Nov. 3, fly home

Posted by
5835 posts

If you are a forward thinking urban planner Denmark should be a must see for urban transportation. See:
http://denmark.dk/en/green-living/bicycle-culture/
Copenhagen is world famous for its biking culture and now officially the first Bike City in the World. Last year, it was also voted the ‘Best city for cyclists’ and the ‘World’s most liveable city’. The Danes are well known for their love of cycling and cities all around the world are now looking at ways to copy this phenomenon. It really is biking heaven for the cyclist in Copenhagen with over 390 kilometres of designated bike lanes.

A humanistic, people-friendly city is first and foremost an accessible city, where mobility is possible for all. Many cities today are plagued by traffic congestion, and in densely populated city areas the fastest way of getting around is often on a bicycle, which is a highly efficient means of transport.

In the 1960s, cars were threatening to displace bicycles in the main Danish cities. But the oil crisis, the environmental movement and a couple of controversial road projects reversed the trend. This is however just part of the story behind why Danes still cycle so much.

Posted by
10344 posts

I'm not going to tackle comparing the art of Venice to the art of Amersterdam.
Amsterdam has the best collection of Van Goghs in the world at the Van Gogh Museum.
Also the Rijksmuseum and Stedelijk Museum.
You'll want to check out the websites for these museums, I think, before deciding to pass on Amsterdam.

Posted by
795 posts

I would skip Spain and Geneva and add Amsterdam (Dutch masters!) and Vienna. Yes you would regret it. Amsterdam is a great city for art. If you upgrade to hotels with bell staff that have shuttles to airports and train stations, you will not lift luggage at all. I like your trip plans. Could you tell us about your urban planning website? I'd love to see your trip photos. Trains are a great way to travel. I use Amtrak in the USA a lot and just love European trains.

Posted by
3938 posts

We've done a similar itinerary with university students over a fall semester 3 times utilizing ground transportation rather than flying. I like that you are starting in the north and ending in the south since you are traveling in the fall, as we did. Our courses focused on History, Art, Architecture and religious sites. We always went to Amsterdam, but could not always fit in Vienna as we were using mainly ground transportation in a connect-the-dots logical progression. A little tweak that I might suggest that would include Amsterdam would be:

first part of your trip as described, then after London, fly to Berlin, train to Amsterdam, Paris, Geneva, Venice, Florence, Rome, fly to Barcelona, train to Madrid. You could easily add a stop in Copenhagen between Berlin and Amsterdam. Geneva was important to us for its Reformation connections.

We have no experiences with hostels, but we have a list of low-cost hotels and University dorms that you might also consider.

Looking forward to hearing more about your trip as you firm-up your plans.

Posted by
552 posts

Two nights in Venice means one full day. I believe you would definitely be shortchanging this beautiful and interesting iconic city. I also believe leaving out Amsterdam would be a mistake. Just my 2€ worth. :)

Posted by
6431 posts

Looks like a great trip, I hope it isn't your last. "Assume you will return" is good advice to make a trip more enjoyable by letting you pace yourself and not try to see "everything." That said, you've allowed plenty of time for the big cities that deserve it most, like London and Paris.

But I'd echo others' recommendation to try to fit in Amsterdam, for urban planning, Protestant history, and art. Three full days would probably suffice. You could get one of them by skipping the Brussels day trip, thus shaving a day from Paris. (If you really want to visit Brussels, it should be easier as a day trip from Amsterdam.) Maybe take another day from Paris just because you've given it so much time. And, while I haven't been to Rome, my impression from others would be that 8 nights is more than needed to do it justice (not much Protestant history there either, ;-)).

While in London, consider a day trip to Windsor and/or Hampton Court, both close by and could even combine in one long day.

You could also save time and an unwelcome flight by skipping Spain (again, where are the Protestants?), which would free up lots of time for Amsterdam, Vienna (great for art and history), and others. Unless you've already got your flight home set from Madrid.

As you probably know, fast train tickets cost less the earlier you buy them, but then you're locked in. With your timetable it will soon be time to make those decisions. This website has great information about train travel.

Hope your trip is fun and rewarding -- and not your last. I've got a couple of years on you and I hope to keep it up for a long time!

Posted by
13809 posts

While you are in London, I suggest you consider spending 2 nights in Bath (not on a weekend as lodging is more expensive). On your full day, do a Mad Max tour to Stonehenge, Avebury, Lacock and Castle Coombe. On the afternoon you arrive and the morning of the day you depart, see the Roman and Georgian aspects of Bath. I am not sure if the Royal Crescent and the Circus count as Urban Planning, but the City of Bath is a World Heritage Site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Crescent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circus,_Bath

Posted by
437 posts

I do not think you can do Zermatt as a day trip from Geneva. If you want to see the Matterhorn stay in Zermatt for at least two nights.

Or skip Zermatt and stay in Chamonix and ride the gondola over Mt. Blanc to Italy.

Also London - Geneva - Paris is a major back track.

Awesome trip!

Posted by
138 posts

Thanks for all the great suggestions and private messages thus far.

Here are a few general responses, but rest assured that I've read and am considering everything you are saying:
1. Yes, it's hard to eliminate Copenhagen both for its green-ness and its taste of Scandinavian life.
2. The subjective input on Amsterdam is helpful, and I see Mona's itinerary suggestion for including Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Yes, Brussels seems as if it would be an easy-enough day trip from Amsterdam. I do want to be aware of number of cities, so if Amsterdam is added, something has to give.
3. Logic would say to skip Spain, I realize, but I find that as I have contemplated this trip and learned more about all the options, Madrid and Barcelona are the ones that make my heart beat faster. I did put those cities at the end of the trip so that if energy and money are low, I can scurry back home.
4. The various side trips from Geneva are options and not to be taken as trying to do all of them. Based on feedback, I'm considering Lucerne as an alternate hub. I chose Geneva first and then back-tracking to Paris because of not wanting to push Switzerland to later in the month. I think I'm allergic to cold. Haha.

Posted by
1976 posts

I haven't been to Spain, but if you like art and history, you'd want to go to Barcelona to see Gaudi's architecture, and to Madrid for the Prado and other art powerhouses. It's a hard call to decide where to go and which other places to leave out. You'll have to make a list for each city and decide what you want to see more than something else.

I have to agree with other posters about adding Amsterdam. It's a compact, walkable city packed with art and history, and you can see a lot in 3 full days. A great book to read is called Amsterdam: A History of the World's Most Liberal City by Russell Shorto. He describes its medieval urban planning which was a collective effort and the beginning of the modern progressive city.

Posted by
7175 posts

I am excited by your dream, vision, wonder and desire, and wish you all the best for an incredible journey. I have added Amsterdam, Vienna and Luzern, plus an extra night in Venice. Consequently there is reduced time in London, Paris and Rome.

Dublin, 2 nights
Belfast, 2 nights
Train/ferry to Edinburgh, 2 nights
London (day trips: Bath/Stonehenge in one day tour, Cambridge), 8 nights
Paris (day trips to Giverny, Chartres, Versailles, Nancy, Brussels), 8 nights
Amsterdam. 3 nights
Berlin (Dessau day trip), 6 nights
Vienna, 3 nights
Luzern, 3 nights
Geneva (possible day trips: Chamonix, Montreux, Zermatt, Bern, Basel), 3 nights
Fly to Venice, 3 nights (or train via Milan)
Florence, 4 nights
Rome (Naples/Pompeii day trip), 6 nights
Fly to Barcelona (Montserrat day trip), 5 nights
Madrid (Toledo day trip), 4 nights

... or fly from London to Geneva (for the Alps) then reverse itinerary to Paris before heading to Italy.

Posted by
138 posts

Many thanks for this latest itinerary suggestion and also for book suggestion on Amsterdam urban planning history. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of this forum. I think you are convincing me to add Amsterdam for three nights, add one more night in Venice, and then subtract one night each from Paris and Rome. This is a net add of two nights and one city.

Given that this is a 2016 trip, I'm suspending judgment on the rest of the ideas for the time being. It seems important to continue to imagine myself in various situations and predict whether those will really be enjoyable and-or educational, or just stressful or doing something just because it is what tourists do.

Posted by
703 posts

I'll just respond to your interest in Protestant history. Luther's Wittenberg could be a day trip from Berlin, and is not far from Dessau. Cities in Switzerland--Zurich, Basel, Geneva--were locations of other reformers such as Calvin and Zwingli. Amsterdam and smaller cities nearby were significant for other Anabaptists such as Menno Simons. Sounds like a wonderful trip. Enjoy.

Posted by
3200 posts

I'm going to be contrary here. I studied art history in college, so it is a huge interest for me. I think one day in Venice is more than enough, as your latest itinerary indicates. But if you need to pull time from somewhere, I'd delete Venice altogether. Venice is different, but there is so much wonderful art and architecture in Italy, Venice is a minor player, IMO. Again, my opinion, I'm not saying there isn't art and architecture there, but Italy is a gold mine so it becomes unimportant. What I found with my recent solo trip, the travel days were the more stressful days…particularly in the beginning so don't let yourself get overwhelmed with Dublin/Belfast/Edinburgh…just tell yourself you will get used to the transportation days, if they bother you. It looks like you are going to have a great trip.

Posted by
138 posts

Thanks for the new comments. Galen, I forgot all about Anabaptists, so I'll look into that. I had thought about Wittenberg before I saw your post and think that certainly is a great option.

Wray, I was of a mind to skip Venice entirely for a few weeks recently, just because there is a higher concentration of great art elsewhere. People who have been there seem very high on the experience though, so I decided to test adding it back in. It seems as though the smart thing is to either skip it entirely or give it at least a couple of nights.