6 weeks in Europe

Welcome to the forum.

Well, a list of typical larger destinations but I miss the salt in the soup - although a good list of ingredients.

Just an example: how about Bruges instead of Brussels? Or if she likes beaches how about Normandy?

Some more interests or dislikes of the group would help others to help you.

Let's see what others think.

Thanks Mark! I have Bruges as a day trip. Would it be better staying in Bruges those 3 days instead of Brussels? Also, although I really want to see Normandy, I'm thinking its not exactly lay on the sand and get sun kind of beach?

If it were me, I would keep Bruges as a day trip. Bruges can get a little overwhelming, and it will be very crowded even in the shoulder season. Personally, I really liked Ghent and stayed there for four days and then went to Bruges as a day trip, which worked for me, but everyone is different. That said, if you like Brussels (and Brussels gets a lot of love here), then I would stick with that, but Mark is correct in that a lot depends on your likes and dislikes. What do you want to see and do? What are your interests?

Keep in mind that everyone has their favorite places to go to. Someone may suggest another place as opposed to your choice, but if you want to go to your original destination, then go there. There's a reason we make choices, and usually it's based on our own personal interests. 😊

Also keep in mind that two nights in Varenna really only gives you one full day of sightseeing, which is not nearly enough. I would pull a night away from another place( maybe Rome?) so you can get a bit more time. Lake Como really is beautiful.

By the way, you may have thought about this already, but I would definitely book a multi-city flight for this. For example, you can fly into Amsterdam and then fly out of Rome back home. That will save you from having to travel from Italy all the way back up to the Netherlands, which will save you time and money. Multi-city flights can be a bit more expensive, but usually not much, and even if they are, it's well worth it in terms of the time savings and public transportation costs.

EDIT: One more thing: if you're going to the Amalfi Coast, your daughter will get lots of beach time there. You're right in that you really won't be able to get much beach time in terms of what your daughter is probably thinking about at Normandy.

Thanks Mardee, I should have specified that we would fly into Amsterdam and depart from Rome.
I like the idea of shaving a day off of Rome for another day in Lake Como (or maybe Paris since we have all been there once before)

Oh, no worries, and that is good. You are way ahead of me! I think that is a great idea about taking it off Paris since you have all been there before. And you've got 6 nights there, which is a good amount of time, so one night less isn't going to deprive you much in terms of sightseeing.

Also, see my edit above. I was thinking about the beach and noting that the Amalfi Coast will definitely give you all the beach time your daughter would want. 😊

Honestly, I think your itinerary is pretty good the way it is. You picked it, so there must be some reason you chose these places. It's all doable. It's in a good order, and you have decent amount of time in these places. I think it looks good overall.

""My daughters only stipulation is some beach time.""
You should tell your daughter that April/May is not the best time for a beach-holiday. Water-temperator is only about 15 degrees.
About Varenna: If you have only 2 nights I would skip it, as much as I love it. But the time is absolutely too short. You'll arrive only in the afternoon, have ONE full day there and have to leave the next day early in the morning. So you maybe can do the ferry to Bellagio in the morning, hurry back to Varenna and do Villa Monastero in the afternoon. But really nothing else.

You should tell your daughter that April/May is not the best time for a beach-holiday. Water-temperator is only about 15 degrees.

If she's like most teenagers, she probably won't set foot in the water but just wants to spend time lying on the beach. All my nieces were like that, and my daughter when they were her age. It's a beautiful place, and I think she would love it there. And don't worry about the time period. I think you have a good mixture of time in all your destinations.

Yes, it'd be lovely to have more days, but the smallest amount is two nights in Verena and I already mentioned to you that I would add another night there, which you agreed with. I think it's pretty good.

EDIT: one more thought on Amalfi. I checked the temperatures, and the average temperature in May, which is when you will be there, as it is near the end of your trip, is a high of 73°F. Obviously you can't depend on that, but in a brief Google check, every place said that May is the perfect time to go to Amalfi because there are fewer crowds, but the weather is nice enough to make it warm enough for people to be out on the beach. Even the water temperature being at 60°F (15°C) would work if someone really wanted to go in.

Thanks Mardee. I agree about the Amalfi Coast based on my research. That's where the real "beach time" part of the trip will take place. Later in the trip and further south. I really don't see us on trains every 2 days based on this itinerary.

I’m always puzzled when posters raise the desire for beach time in Europe. It seems a long way to go for places that can be more easily accessible from N. America and that are sunnier and have better water activities. Still, if you must . . . Research air and water temps. Lots (most?) of Northern Europe beaches will be chilly in your time frame. Additionally, lots of Mediterranean beaches are pebbly, not sandy. Positano and Nice are good examples.

Well. I agree that Bruges as a day trip can be overwhelming and crowded. But, as a base, the mornings are calm and the evenings are quiet. Ghent is another good choice for a base.

From Bruges you could add the small group Flanders Field tour. A great way for your daughter to get an entertaining WWI history lesson.

Pisa or Siena - definitely Siena. It's a nice counterpart to it's former rival Florence.

I would suggest dropping one of your destinations and adding those days elsewhere so you can breathe a bit.

Rosalyn, thanks for your feedback. She's 16, so she likes beach towns (I'd rather be on the beach in Normandy seeing history but I am being democratic with my fellow travel mates)

April and early May are usually too cold for the beach, though some time in a seaside town should be okay

Thanks Valadelphia. We'll cross our fingers and keep the beach segment as late as possible into the trip and also our southern most point

Wow, what a wonderful trip this will be! Your agenda is well planned; not much I would change given your interests. While it would be nice to have another day on Lake Como, I think two days is okay. That’s all I spent there and I thought it was worth it. If you want to add another day there, definitely take it from Paris. Rome is just so packed with wonderful things to see. Paris is too, but you have been there. I hope you have a wonderful time!

hey hey letting the days go by
welcome aboard the forum
my own opinion, you are in big cities overload. sure it's nice to plan but you are traveling during busy times like many others. doesn't seem to be off season anymore. have no clue what weather & water temperature will be for beach time.
have you booked your hotels, know that check-in is 3-4pm and check-out is 10-11am. you can ask for early check-in or leave bags till check-in and roam around the town.
give yourself time in mornings to shower, pack up, check out, get to airport far in advance or to train station, not spending so much time in transit. have you booked your train dates/seats? we buy food at a shop or train station for own picnic (salami/cheese/baguette/sandwich/wrap/drink)
you're late in the game for some attractions that need reservations with date/time stamp to enter. go directly to website to reserve. many may be sold out, may not be the times you want to see, long lines since so many people want to see the same as you in every city you're going to.
amsterdam is always busy (beware of bikes bikes) plus tulip time.
lake como is always busy, and you really have only 1 full day
cramming so much activities amongst crowds, restaurants will be full many need reservations,
april 25th and may 1st are national holidays in some countries you'll be in. big celebrations (parades, festivals, closures of streets, attractions/activities, shops/restaurants) be prepared.
sorrento is a short time with things you're hoping to see & do, fighting crowds, transportation along amalfi is not the greatest and very crowded with traffic, don't rely on the times you think it takes to get anywhere.
carry small euro coins to throw in fountain, be prepared that some places charge a fee to see and enter, take time away from the hustle/bustle/crowds and do something fun. a food tour/ sip & paint serving pizza and drink, visit a farmers market (marketsofrome.com), we went gelato tasting different flavors, taking picture of place/name to not forget and what you liked best, in florence arnorivercruise.com, pizza making class
romewise.com/ lido di ostia take the short train ride from termini and please your daughter "happy daughter happy dad!"
may not be an exact beach she thinks about but... bring water shoes (rocky pebbles/not sand), towel, bathing suit, water temperature???
just a few ideas to ponder, go with flow with crowds, enjoy and have fun
aloha

It’s a great highlight reel, but Mark had an interesting observation about …

the salt in the soup - although a good list of ingredients.

You have six weeks, five countries. What if you compared your above trip to a “less is more” 3 or 4 country venture. Something like your first seven nights but add in another 5 to 7 nights in the Low Countries. Maybe add Bruges and tulip fields and I don’t know what else. Cycling?

Then skip over France and Spain altogether and explore Italy in greater depth. Or, alternatively, drop Italy and develop France and Spain in greater depth

• Italy could pick up smaller cities and country side locales, such as Padova, Tuscan or Umbrian towns/cities such as Siena, San Gimignano, Volterra, Assisi, Montepulciano, Assisi, Orvieto, Bologna and nearby towns such as Ravenna, Parma or Modena. Islands such as Ischia or Capri near Naples. Puglia? Southern Italian beaches would be nice in May.
• France. Explore another new region. The Dordogne and its castles and ancient caves with Cro-Magnon paintings? Provence with beach time somewhere quiet such as Toulon or Bandol or Occitanie. Glimpses of Ancient Rome in Orange, Nimes, Arles
• Spain - Andalusia: Sevilla, Cordoba, Granada to explore the legacy of the Moors and the history of the Reconquista. Costa del Sol beach time.

Again, you have a lot of great stuff there. But I’ve gotten to believe that less is more and that more depth and layers can be a richer experience. When the three of you compare two different itineraries you can talk it through, but time’s getting short.

My daughter (14 at the time) and I had so much fun at the Amalfi coast and took off our socks and shoes. Yes it was cool. It was early April. But it was beautiful and such a memorable experience.

Thanks pbscd,we would be there mid may, so maybe some warmer temps!

Some of the places on your target list require early ticket purchase because of demand. The first one to think about, I believe, is the Anne Frank House. The official website https://www.annefrank.org/en/museum/tickets/ says tickets go on sale every Tuesday at 10 AM Central European Time for six weeks later. Someone will need to get up in the middle of the night to buy the tickets. I'd have every credit card and debit card I owned in front of me, because sometimes ticket purchases get tricky. I'd also do a dry run the week before my date of visit was going on sale. There is no waiting list for tickets.

Other especially critical sights are the Colosseum (another middle-of-the-night wake-up call) and the Vatican Museums (can sell out many weeks in advance).

Here's a list of other places for which you should not plan to buy tickets after arrival in the city. Lead times vary. This may not be a complete list of the challenging attractions.

Rijksmuseum
Van Gogh Museum (tougher than the Rijksmuseum, I think)
Louvre (I don't know about Notre Dame, Versailles and Giverny)
La Sagrada Familia
Parc Guell
Royal Palace in Madrid (popular with Spaniards; might be busier on weekends and holidays)
Prado (maybe)
Uffizi
St. Mark's (pre-book an entry time to avoid the very long ticket line)
Secret Itineraries Tour at Doge's Palace (not sure regular entry tickets are tough to snag)
Roman Forum is on a combo ticket with the Colosseum, I think
St. Peter's (prebook entry time to get into shorter security line)

acraven is giving you very good advice, especially about the Anne Frank tickets. There are so many people who have not gotten tickets because they weren't there as soon as the slots opened up. It's really important to schedule all of this ahead of time. Otherwise, you run the risk of missing out.

I will say some of them will let you in on the day of if you don't get tickets, although you still run a risk of there being too long a line. That happened to me in Paris when I was at the Louvre. I had forgotten to get tickets for myself and my two grandkids. We wound up going early on the morning of and waiting in a separate line. We were inside within 20 minutes. Obviously, it's better to have the tickets up front, but I'm just saying even if you don't, there may be another option. It was the same with Notre Dame.

That said, don't use it as an excuse not to try and get them early, and you will not have another opportunity to get the Anne Frank tickets.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I modified our itinerary based on alot of your advice.
I cut Brussels out, took a day of Amsterdam and Paris (since we've been there) and added them to spend a 3rd night in Lake Como (that seemed to be a popular opinion) and took Fred's advice on slowing down in Tuscany and spending more time exploring that area. I'll get a car in Florence and use Siena as our base. (I'll get the international drivers license thru AAA)
And I added the final 5 days on the Amalfi Coast (Maybe use Sorrento as a base) to really just wind down after 5 weeks of traveling, and get the beach vibes for my daughter. There seems to be plenty to do there that's casual 1/2 or full day trips (Pompeii (1/2 day, Positano, Capri, Ravello) Might rent a car and enjoy getting a little lost and exploring deeper. (I live in the mountains of Colorado-not really afraid of windy roads :) but maybe just use taxis, buses ferries)

BTW-Chat GPT was solid in making suggestions and organizing the plan (like when and where to get a gondola in Venice) and giving the ability to tweak dozens of times and show me the overall itinerary each time I made a change.

🇳🇱 Amsterdam — 3 nights
🇫🇷 Paris — 5 nights
🇪🇸 Barcelona — 4 nights
🇪🇸 Madrid — 4 nights
🇮🇹 Lake Como (Varenna) — 3 nights
🇮🇹 Venice — 4 nights
🇮🇹 Florence — 3 nights
🇮🇹 Siena (Tuscany base) — 4 nights
🇮🇹 Rome — 6 nights
🇮🇹 Sorrento (Amalfi Coast base) — 5 nights
🇮🇹 Rome (airport area) — 1 night

Total: 42 nights across 11 bases

You need to make San Clemente Church one of your must-sees in Rome. It is near the Colosseum. If your daughter likes cats, you should also go to the Largo Argentina ruins cat sanctuary. I like that you dropped Brussels-I wasn't a fan.

BTW-Chat GPT was solid in making suggestions and organizing the plan (like when and where to get a gondola in Venice) and giving the ability to tweak dozens of times and show me the overall itinerary each time I made a change.

I like using ChatGPT to help fine-tune my itinerary and it can really be helpful. I'm glad it worked for you

(I live in the mountains of Colorado-not really afraid of windy roads
:)

You don't need to fear the windy roads but you should fear the traffic jams and lack of parking along the AC. A car isn't worth the hassle. Plan your days in advance of how to move along the AC. We spent two of our days exploring; the first was by ferry to Amalfi and then by bus to Miniori and Maiori. The 2nd day was a small group tour by car. Of the 9 hour tour, 4.5 hours were in the car. Personally, we enjoyed a day in Capri far more than anything we saw on the Amalfi Coast. But or best dayss were north off Sorrento in Pompeii, Herculaneum and Naples.

Bottom line though, I'm glad you added extra time to the Amalfi Coast, we spent 2 weeks based in Sorrento in 2023 and loved it.

It would really be helpful to some of us if you would briefly share the steps you took to start your itinerary in Chat GPT. Thanks

Cala-I would love to do that! Stay tuned and I'll put it together. Right now I'm loading up my Sprinter van and heading up to the mountains to to chase some much needed powder. The ski season has been tough this year, but it looks like the mountains are getting their biggest storm of the year!!!

Looks like a great trip.

One suggestion, get to Giverny as close to the 9:00 AM opening as you can. Once the tour busses from Paris and the river cruises arrive it can get very busy.

You have an awesome trip planned, and you did a great job with the trip planning and the allocation of nights. Happy to see that you added an extra night to Varenna and an extra night to Venice.

Do you have hotel reservations yet for Venice? I highly recommend staying in the Dorsoduro district, which is much quieter than around San Marco. We loved staying at the Agli Alboretti Hotel, which is a 1 minute walk from the Accademia Bridge. About 20 minutes from St. Mark's Square. About a 10 minute walk from Ca Rezzonico, a museum of 18th century Venice. Also close to the Accademia Gallery and Peggy Guggenheim Collection, if you are interested in these museums.

For a quiet and memorable gondola ride, you can board your gondola at Campo S. Barnaba. We told our gondolier we wanted to go down the side canals where it is much more quiet and less crowded than the Grand Canal. Such a wonderful experience!

Make time for drinks and cicchettis on the Zattere, the seaside promenade along the Guidecca Canal. Another memorable experience!

And plan to go up the Campanile in time for a spectacular sunset.