4 Month European Trip

Supporting everyone else's comments - you do have a lot of research ahead of you and RS's "Europe through the backdoor" is the best start.

This last fall I spent 27 days in Eastern parts of Europe (which generally speaking are less expensive) and I exceeded your budget that you have for 4 months. Granted that was airfare, ground trans, all food/drink, hotels, events & attractions. Our airfare was spendy (due to flying out of Croatia) and our hotels could have been an area for saving money - but your budget is going to be the biggest focal point of making a 4 month trip successful.

In my experience, Paris and all of Switzerland are especially expensive. Also, moving around a lot is more expensive. Ground transp can really add up.

Moral of the story - define your budget first and then plot out your trip after reading ETBD.

Thanks a lot everybody for your input. It is very helpful. I know there is tons and tons of research that needs to be done, I just thought I could get a starting point from people with experience. I definitely plan to get the book and to discuss with my friends.

As I go on and have more specific questions that I can't find in here, I'll be sure to turn here, much appreciated!!!

Q1 For that long a trip, a rough plan is fine since you can condense and expand as you go along. Also, you'll be influenced by others you meet along the way and substantially modify your plan anyway.

Q2 For starters -- double the ten grand, add airfare to and from europe, and be aware that you'll bust Schengen after ninty days.

First off, as Ed suggested, you may need a visa. You are aware that you can spend only 90 days out of 180 days in an Schengen agreement country which is most of western Europe.

Second, you are correct that you don't have much of a clue and space is too limited here to give you the education you need. Do you homework. Reading, Europe Through the Back Door, is not a bad starting point.

Simple math says you are way short. $10,000 divided by a 135 days is only $74/day. That is about 51E a day. Going real cheap the could be stretched to cover lodging and meals if you never ate out. No transportation, no admission fees, no laundry mats, etc.

The old concept of Europe on $5 day, $50 day, etc. is dead because of the weak dollar and their high prices. You have to get into the range of 100 to at least 125 and that could still be tight.

Once in Europe it is easy to move from city to city via rail. You will miss some discounts on transportation by not purchasing early. However, that is the price you pay for flexibility. My son and dil just return from 5 months, and they planned about a week to ten days ahead. However, they did have a rough plan as to where they want to be and when but no specific dates for each location.

Get to work. You have a lot to do and learn. This site is great for specific questions but we cannot serve as your trip planner or guidebook writer.

1) Put together a plan that says in what order you will visit major cities, and what side trips you intend for each. Plan in detail, including all reservations for rail and the like, the first 10 days of the trip. Flesh out other details after arrival. Read around more on these pages to get a feel for the contrast between a 'general plan' and a 'detailed itinerary'.

To me, an excerpt of a general plan might look like...
...Day 11
5 days in Munich
- Side trips to Fussen, Allgau
- See Duetches Musuem, etc...
Morning train to Salzburg
3 days in Salzburg
Morning train to Vienna, see Melk Monastery on the way
4 days in Vienna
...etc....

2) Having been a student (many years ago) on a shoestring budget... I can say now that things have changed, and it would be nearly impossible to do the $25 a day thing that I did. In today's world you've got to expect 20E for accomodations, 25E minimum for local travel, 10E for entry fees and whatnot, and 20E to not starve -- putting a daily minimum at around 70E -- which at today's exchange rate of $1.41 USD/EUR means a daily budget should be around $98.70 (Let's call it an even $100). 4 1/2 Months * 30.4 days per monht * $100 / day = $13,680... PLUS Airfare... that's a minimum plan point... and doesn't give you much wiggle room at all.

EDIT: Also meant to say -- AWESOME -- I'm jealous... being a husband and a father of 3 means it will be another 20 years before I get to travel multi-month foot-loose and fancy free again... Even though you've got GOBS of work to do to get ready, I'm still jealous -- and you will have a GREAT time!!

Jamie,

My first suggestion would be for all of you to read Europe Through The Back Door before you get too far in your planning. That will answer a lot of your questions, and provide information on things like Itinerary planning, budget and money issues, languages and especially Rail skills. The country or city-specific Guidebooks will provide more detailed information.

As Frank mentioned, you'll need to be especially careful not to violate the terms of the Schengen Visa, which allows non-EU residents to stay for a maximum of 90-days. Although this covers most of western Europe, all countries are not subject to this so some research would be a good idea.

The usual "benchmark" is to allow about US$100 per day for expenses (which is a bare minimum), which includes accommodations, food, incidentals and local transportation. Air fares and Rail passes are not included in this estimate. You'll need to allow some flexibilty to compensate for the Pound/Euro exchange rates, which will undoubtedly be different when you're travelling.

You might want to have a look at the HI Hostels website to get some idea of their properties in the places you want to visit. Taking out a membership would probably be a good idea (very inexpensive). There are independent Hostels also, but I tend to use HI more than others as the facilities are fairly consistent from one location to the next.

Good luck with your planning!

Frank's math sounds right to me. There are lots of ways to cut corners, but with inadequate funds you will be stressing yourself every time you consider whether to visit a museum or have a meal or take local transportation. If you are in Europe you will want to do these things. IMHO, you should take more money or shorten the trip.

I'd plan to cut the trip to no more than 90 days. This avoids the "Shengen problem" and helps cut your expenses. First, you and your friends need to begin to make some lists. What are your interests? Where have you dreamed of going and why? Then have some discussions based on those lists. Narrow down your destinations and come up with a rough plan. Then research things like costs of point-to-point rail and bus tickets and EuRail Passes (BritRail if UK is part of plan) and cheap intra-europe flights. Check things like "walk up/day of" prices and advance purchase (look into how far out fares are good - some are time sensitive). Talk about how much flexibility you want. Some people are comfortable with a rough plan (London, the Paris, then head to Italy) others want reservations, exact days, times for trains/flights... etc.

Then is when you will have enough info to begin asking more specific questions.

I envy you and your friends... wish I could ...

Well, it can be done for less than 10k. To do it you will need to find alternative (including free) sleeping arrangements. If you plan to stay in Rick Steve's listed accomdations, forget it.

Buy a copy of Let's Go Europe as a starter.

Jamie.

I agree with Michael....get a copy of Let's Go Europe and really study it. The time span of 4 1/2 months is my idea of a dream trip. If you have the funds to cover that length of time, go for the 4 1/2 months. Since you are in Chicago, go to the German consulate...if it's not there, write to the German Embassy Washington, DC about the Schengen visa question. (In San Francisco the German Consulate and French Consulate are here.) I suggest this one because I assume you will be going there.

I am both a trip planner and winging it; I used to come into a city I wanted to see and "then" looked for accomodations, usually the Hosteling International hostel...there were no independent hostels back then. Now, my thoughts on that have changed somewhat....searching for accomodations upon arrival, lugging your luggage around or leaving it in a train station locker is a waste of time and energy, unless you don't mind which hostel you stay at.

Also, I heartily recommend that you look at Rough Guide Europe. But, mainly, decide on the cities you want to see and why. Is it because of its architectural beauty, its museums and monuments, historical significance, or just its fascination, etc. If I had that 4 month time span now, I would know exactly where to go and see in planning that sort of a Europe trip. Happy Travels.

Jamie,

I would suggest you limit the trip to 90 days and start it around August 20th if you can. That puts the end date around November 20th, before it gets too cold - maybe start in the north and work your way south, generally, to give yourself the best climate. This time frame avoids 80% of American tourists and most other tourists as well. Much of Europe takes THEIR vacation in August, so you want to avoid as much of that as you can, too. This way, bookings at the hostels will be light and you can pretty much count on having your choice of places to sleep in each location without calling ahead, plus you'll probably save 10-30% over the high-season prices.

WIth 90 days and no real need to make reservations, I would not plan much at all, beyond reading A LOT about each region in Europe. It's great to have a plan, but with that much time, too much can change to make it realistic to stick with that plan. You may meet some fellow travellers who you get along with well in Berlin who are on their way to Krakow and you think "whoa, that sounds cool, I should go too!" (even though you had never considered it before) and if you have a "schedule" then that blows your schedule, right? So I wouldn't bother. Have your first couple of weeks roughly planned out, with some idea of a strategy for what comes after, and then go.

Another consideration is travel fatigue. It may be hard to believe, but with that much time, you could find yourself growing tired of the grind. Pretty soon each city starts to look the same (river, cathedral, castle on the hill, old town, new town, jewish quarter, train station, historic bridge, etc.). The more you see, the more likely that a really great memory gets lost in the haze of too many sights.

We're all jealous of the luxury of doing what you're doing. It could be a fantastic experience. You can't read too much ahead of time, but you can plan too much.

Another recommendation for Let's Go and the Rough Guide. For your intentions, Rick Steves is probably not the best source. His books are aimed at people who have a larger budget but less time, and for backpackers, he doesn't cover large areas of certain countries. The above two books, however, are written for people with less money but more time. More importantly, they offer more comprehensive information about each given country. This means that you'll get information not just on the tourist highlights, but as a backpackers, information on interesting places you find yourself passing through that people otherwise wouldn't consider visiting on a "Grand Tour".

Jamie,

Go to a good travel agency to see whether you qualify for air youth fares, ie, under 26 years old, in case you decide to travel by air within Europe, such as London to Athens, Berlin to Stockholm or Helsinki, or Paris to Warsaw, Paris to Rome. There are plenty of ways to cut corners while traveling. Get a HI hostel card, just case you want to stay in some; not all the independent hostels serve dinner.

With a HI card there's dinner at the HI hostels, buffet style, without having to be a guest there. I did this several times in Germany last summer at the HI hostels and never once was asked if I was a guest. Having the HI card allows you access. Eating at the train stations in Germany is a very good option with a great diversity in types of cuisine as is having lunch at the university cafeterias called Mensa in Germany. The locals and other tourists do it, so can you.

In Vienna the first Sunday of the month, some museums are free. Are your friends' interests about a particular topic, city, or country as strong and definite as yours? Are you willing to split up for the day because varying interests and priorities as to what to see, or for two-three days and meet up again in a different city? I mean there are definite advantages to traveling with one or two friends but the same goes for traveling solo too, which I did my first time over for twelve full weeks. It just depends on your interests. Consider what you can put up with and what you cannot while traveling. I myself like the summer travel from June to September, if you can take the heat and humidity. The crowds don't bother me.

The figure of $100 per day is an approximation, it depends greatly on where you are and where you are staying. I have spent less per day and sometimes more, it just depends. You can be frugal and splurge, and still have a good trip!!