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3 Weeks in The Balkans, Itinerary Advice For First Timer!

Hi,

I have 18days on ground, 20 Days to be exact 30th April - 20th May, with arrival to Budapest at 0720am on 1st May and leaving via Istanbul on 20th May 0120hrs.

I have no concrete plans yet but yes, i missed Budapest last april when i did munich-vienna-prague-lauterbrunnen-munich.

This time, i would want to visit Budapest for at least two days.

My plans are to fly early in the morning from Atarturk Airport to Budapest.

Istanbul - Budapest (Flight)

Budapest - Ljubljana (Bus or Train)

Ljubljana - Zagreb - Split (Bus?)

Split - Mostar - Sarajevo (Bus)

Sarajevo - Kotor (Bus)

Kotor - Ohrid (Bus)

Ohrid - Sofia (Bus)

Sofia - Istanbul (Bus)

Is this possible?

Posted by
27122 posts

I love the Balkans, but when you're using public transportation outside Slovenia and Croatia, every day is an adventure whether you want it to be or not. You have some extremely long travel legs there, because buses and (rare) trains through the Balkans move at a very slow pace--in my experience, about 30 mph (50 km/hr). You are hopping between interesting places, skipping nearby spots that some think are better. I would visit fewer countries, spend less time on buses/trains and actually see more. There are a lot of young people in those countries (I haven't been to Macedonia or recently to Turkey) who speak English; I'd want to give myself some time to connect with them.

Buy border-crossing bus tickets as soon as you know when you want to travel; they can fill up.

Budapest-Ljubljana looks like about 9 hours on either bus or train. Ljubljana is a very attractive city where I think you'd enjoy spending a couple of days (lots of young people hanging out), plus there are lovely nearby spots like Lake Bled, Lake Bohinj, and the Vintgar Gorge. All accessible by bus, though probably not on one day.

Ljubjlana-Split will likely be over 8 hours by bus, via Zagreb as you noted. It's a shame not to spend some time in Zagreb, which has a very nice historic district, an active street scene, and a bunch of interesting museums. In addition, the Plitvice Lakes National Park is one of the prettiest spots in Europe (if weather is decent). To see it at its best, though, it's important to spend the night before your visit near the park so you can beat the day-trippers onto the paths. You can get to Plitvice from Zagreb by public bus and then go on to Split the next day.

Sarajevo to Kotor may take about 7 hours by bus. Do you not care about seeing Dubrovnik? That would be worth a day. Montenegro has a lot of lovely spots, both small cities (Cetinje, Herceg-Novi, Ulcinj, Budva) and countryside. It's a shame to blow through the country in about one day. If it's a day when Kotor has a monster cruise ship in port, it will not be a top-flight experience for you.

That Kotor-Ohrid trip sounds like quite a slog. The route may take you through Albania, which I've heard is fascinating but have never visited. How often do you expect to get to that part of Europe? Why not spend a bit of time seeing Albania? The one bus connection that pops up on Balkan Viator is for a 7:38 PM departure and 5:03 AM arrival. Sounds miserable, so I'd prefer to break the trip into two manageable chunks. NOTE: I found a TripAdvisor post warning against using the Balkan Viator website because its data is often many years old.

The difficulty of getting reliable bus schedule info before you arrive in your anticipated departure city is just another reason why this part of Europe doesn't work very well for the sort of trip you are planning. You may well encounter buses that do not run daily and find yourself marooned somewhere. Seriously: On two occasions when I stopped at a local tourist office to check on a bus trip that involved a connection, the staffer picked up a phone and called the bus station in the mid-point city rather than looking for the schedule online.

I suspect you're facing another 8+ hours on the bus when you head to Sofia, which incidentally is far from the most interesting place in Bulgaria. I much, much preferred Veliko Trnovo and Plovdiv. There are also a couple of historic Black Sea towns with historic churches and something of a beach scene nearby: Sozopol and Nesebar. I absolutely would not go to Bulgaria and see only Sofia. If you're just using it as the fastest way-station en route to Istanbul, I understand that, but I'd trim the number of planned destinations and end in a city with cheap flights back to Istanbul.

Otherwise, Sofia to Istanbul will be another huge chunk of time spent on a bus. Said bus, incidentally, goes through Plovdiv, where you could spend a nice day or two if you had more time.

Posted by
155 posts

Hi acraven,

Thank you so much for the very detail replies.

I have not finalized my plan but for a first timer in that part of europe i think transportation is my major worries.

I will do more research on my route.

thanks for the advise.

Posted by
27122 posts

It will be a lot of fun, but you'll need to be flexible. Whatever you do, allow lots of extra time to get to your departure city at the end of the trip. And be prepared for unexpected overnight stays. You'll certainly return home with interesting stories to tell.

At bus and train stations I recommend having your origin and destination printed out in capital letters along with the travel date in European format (DD-MM-YY) to reduce the chance of confusion. Many ticket sellers do not speak English. If there are multiple departures, also write down the desired departure time using the 24-hour clock (e.g., 1430 for 2:30 PM). If you're not already familiar with the European way of writing numbers (especially the "1" and the "7"), check it out on Google.

If you're getting off the bus at a mid-way point rather than the termination point, be sure the driver (if possible) and one or more fellow passengers know where you're going. They will help you get off at the right spot.

Posted by
17929 posts

After the events of yesterday, Istanbul has finally crossed my comfort threshold. If you do go, it's worth 3 solid full days. Your next stop, Budapest is worth at least 3 solid full days. So 7 of your 18 days are gone. With 11 left, I think you have too much. I might be inclined to save Ljubljana for a trip with more of a northern reference and instead look for a discount airline to that will connect you to the southern end of your route. Maybe to Sofia and work north up to Croatia. Sofia and the immediate area is good for at least 3 full days - now you have 7 left. By the way, Kotor didn't thrill me, but Montenegro did; so did Belgrade which is a great low cost airline hub. Also consider private driver guides which you should be able to find for something in the neighborhood of $200/day.

Posted by
155 posts

Thank you for the reply,

I havent decide on how many days i need on each city but since i have visited istanbul before i think i'll give 2 solid days to visit those parts that ive never been before.

I need advise on how should i do my booking, its early my and im not sure how busy the season is but should i book all my accomodation in advance or i can book 2 3 days before?

Secondly, how do i stay connected to the internet in the balkans? In Central Europe there is Optus Mobilr which i can stay connected using one sim in schegan area (including swiss). Hope there is a way in the Balkans.

Posted by
27122 posts

I traveled in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Romania and Bulgaria in September-October of 2015. Wi-Fi was widely available in hotels and often in cafes. I had one lodging in Bulgaria where my phone but not my tablet would connect to the internet; that was the only difficulty I encountered. I did not attempt to use cellular data or to make phone calls in that part of Europe. (I would not be surprised if conditions in Macedonia were a bit dicier.)

I made most of my reservations just a day or two ahead of time, using my hotel Wi-Fi and booking.com. I am a budget traveler, but not a rock-bottom-budget traveler. I'm not willing to stay in dormitory rooms. The tighter your budget, the riskier it is to wait till the last minute to arrange lodging. What you can do, though, is check each city you plan to visit on your hotel booking site of choice way ahead of time to see how many hotels have vacancies and the general price range. Then check periodically afterward so you'll know in advance if things are tightening up greatly. You might also Google "special events" and the name of each city to be sure you aren't at risk of arriving during a problematic period.

I imagine James E. has a good feel for whether you can wait till the last minute to arrange lodging in Budapest.

Posted by
191 posts

I just got back from the Balkans and loved it. I would suggest being very flexible in your timing and maybe purchasing your bus tickets for the next destination when you arrive in a city since you'll be at the bus station and it will be easy to get the schedule. There are lots of companies running busses but I found everyone to be helpful.

Posted by
489 posts

Wish I could go with you...
We were in Istanbul airport (we are going this next year to the city no matter what) also in Budapest, Slovenia and Croatia this year. This next year is Bulgaria and Romania.

Wifi is very good at any coffee house/restaurant. Just ask for the password.

You have quite an itinerary scheduled. Crossing borders is not easy and with the unrest will probably not get easier. We didn't take public buses, but we're held up for some time at different crossing borders. We flew some and was easier at times that what we heard from bus travelers.
I would highly recommend near Ljubljana to see the caves (Skocjan) WOW!

Posted by
17929 posts

Ilja, yes, Kotor was a small less impressive Dubrovnik, while the parts of Montenegro that I saw outside of Kotor were beautiful. Stayed in Perast about 30 min from Kotor and drove to Podgorica. Great couple of days.

This was a year ago and had no trouble crossing from Croatia to Montenegro; or from Bulgaria to Istanbul on a driving trip about 2 years ago.

My TMOBILE worked from Tel Aviv to Istanbul, across Bulgaria and throughout Europe. Can't recall having trouble in any country ... and TMobile has free data and cheap calls.

Booking accommodations in Budapest? Depends on the dates and how picky you are. You can always find something if it's not an event weekend.

Posted by
155 posts

Thanks for the reply, ive rearrange my days and this is the final one.

Will arrive Budapesr at 0800hrs on 1st May and will leave Singapore from Changi on 0130hrs on 20th May. I think i have plenty of days, this is my plan:

Budapest - Ljubljana

Ljubljana - Zagreb

Zagreb - Sarajevo

Sarajevo - Mostar

Mostar - Dubrovnik

Dubrovnik - Kotor

Kotor - Ohrid

Ohrid - Skopje

Skopje - Sofia

Sofia - Istanbul

Which of this will be a hassle?

Posted by
27122 posts

I'm pretty confident it's possible, though of course political issues could cause problems. But you've got some all-day bus rides there. I have no idea whether in some places your only choice will be an overnight bus. I think as you move south, some bus links may only operate once a day. Be sure you know whether there are days the buses don't run at all (Sundays? holidays?). I've seen bus schedules showing trips that run only once or twice a week, which would be a bit scary with an itinerary like this.

Basically, I think after you exclude transit time, your average will be not much more than one day per destination. I haven't been to Ohrid, but these are otherwise fine destinations, and I don't think you're doing them justice. It's one thing to make a quick stop somewhere, but you have 8 of them in a row.

Due to their infrequency, cross-border buses can sell out. I'm not totally confident that if you arrive in City X late on Tuesday you'll always find a seat on a bus departing Thursday morning. Your schedule is so tight that if you have a problem like that somewhere along the way, the whole trip could collapse. I assume that you absolutely, positively have to be in Istanbul on a certain day to be sure you make your flight home. Stuff happens in the Balkans. Heck, I had a bus in Italy that ran over 3 hours late (and without air conditioning in July). It was a once-daily link between Sicily and Puglia. But I didn't have to worry about buying a replacement airline ticket as a result of my late arrival.

If I had to guess I'd say the Kotor-Ohrid leg may be the most dicey. There seem to be two bus companies making that run, but Rome2Rio indicates (this not verified) that they follow very different routes, so if one of them drops out mid-way, it may not be so easy to continue.

Just in case you need a back-up plan: In 2015 I took a bus from Sofia to Nis, Serbia, spent the night, and took another bus on to Podgorica, Montenegro. From Podgorica there is good service to Kotor. The road from Nis to Kotor had some especially pretty scenery, too. So I think you could go Kotor-Nis-Sofia if you needed to, omitting Ohrid.

You are going to be dealing with a different currency in each country. I think a lot of those currencies (excluding Slovenia's euro, of course) are not very convertible outside their borders. It's going to be a bit of a production to figure out how much local cash you need to get out of an ATM at each destination so that you don't have any left over when you hop back on a bus 36 hours later. Except, of course, you need some money for snacks at the rest stops along the way.

Although I believe it's doable, I think this trip would be more fun and more memorable (good-way memorable, that is) if you reduced the number of stops and spent more time at each one, but I commend you for your adventurous spirit!

Please come back and tell us about it all after you return.

Posted by
155 posts

Hello acraven,

Really appreciate your brief explanation. I wouldnt mind omit ohrid as long as i could get to istanbul 3 or at least 2 days before my departure.

I am really worried about crossing to albania and then to skopje (if i omit ohrid), apart from its a long leg journey, i dont know if there would be a problem crossing the borders.

Hmmmm...

Posted by
27122 posts

Oh, I didn't realize that your time in Istanbul had to come out of the 18-day allotment. You really, really need to cut that itinerary!

In traveling through the Balkans (I also hit Romania and Bulgaria), I enjoyed opportunities to chat with local residents. A lot of the younger ones speak quite good English. If you're constantly rushing from place to place, you many not have much time to do that, though with luck you'll have some English-speaking seatmates on the buses.

I want to get to Albania myself, but I think the more obscure the destination, the more time you need to allow because of the possible logistical complications. So far, I haven't been able to fit Albania in. But I may be going to Greece in 2018, so there's hope.

Posted by
155 posts

If i were to cut the places, which would be a place to cut? Kotor?

Posted by
27122 posts

I'm not sure how much time you save by cutting Kotor. I'd think Ohrid and Skopje might be a more practical plan. But are you going to try to pre-book lodgings more than a day or two ahead? If not (and I wouldn't), I'd be winging this trip so I could spend as much time as I wanted in each place, subject to getting to Istanbul on time.

One of our other posters who visited both Dubrovnik and Kotor recently (I think on the same trip) pointed out that Kotor is pretty similar to Dubrovnik. That had not registered with me since I visited the two places decades apart. Given that comment, I guess skipping Dubrovnik or Kotor makes some sense. I think you need to cut more, however.

Posted by
155 posts

Thank you for thr advice.

Yeah i am not going to book in advance, ill be booking 2 days in advance.

I really wanted to go dubrovnik and kotor, probably, i'll skip ohrid and get from kotor straight to skopje.

Spend skopje a day and take a night bus to sofia, likewise a day before getting to istanbul to relax before getting home.

Is Balkan Viator is a good reference?

Posted by
7175 posts

With your time frame I'd stick to a journey connecting the capitals ...
Ljubljana (3N)
Zagreb (2N)
Budapest (4N)
Belgrade (2N)
Sofia (3N)
Istanbul (4N)

Posted by
155 posts

Oh. I am not interested at all for Serbia. Another highlight of my trip is Sarajevo and Mostar but thanks for the advise.

Posted by
27122 posts

I haven't used Balkan Viator. My experience is that any website that aggregates bus-schedule information from multiple companies is one step farther from the straight scoop, so you need to be careful and verify everything as you go. But this is true about bus schedules in general--all the more, I imagine, in the Balkans.

My first step when I arrive by bus at a destination is to try to obtain the schedule info I need for the next leg of my trip. I do that before I leave the bus station. For accuracy, you'll need to know whether you are going to encounter any holidays along the way, and always check footnotes to schedules, which is where weekday/Sunday differences will be flagged.

My second step, wherever possible, is to go by the local tourist office to ask for the same information. Tourist office personnel will probably speak some English; not all bus stations have an English-speaker.

I didn't have any buses evaporate on me during my 2015 Balkan jaunt, but I noticed that if I asked at a tourist office about a bus departure from a different city in the same country, the staffer did not turn to his or her computer (which is what you or I would naturally do). Instead, the staffer reached for the telephone and called the bus station in the other city. That would likely not be productive for you or me because the person answering the phone probably would not have been hired for his English-speaking skills.

This is all by way of saying that you just cannot be sure, which is why I'm relieved you're going to wing this trip rather than pre-paying for a bunch of hotel rooms. Just don't let the time get away from you since your end-date is fixed.

Posted by
7175 posts

I'm not really offering advice as I don't have first hand experience in these parts. More suggestion in my case.

I think you (with the help of others) need to try and make these places work within your time frame.

Budapest - Ljubljana - Sarajevo - Mostar - Dubrovnik - Sofia - Istanbul

Logistics seem rather burdensome, and I think you will have to choose between Ljubljana and Sofia.

Fly Istanbul to Sofia
Fly Sofia to Budapest
Train thru Croatia to Split
Bus/ferry Split to Dubrovnik
(Day trips to Kotor & Mostar)
Fly Dubrovnik to Istanbul

Posted by
155 posts

Well, i dont have time in my hand and certainly i wouldnt be in this region again, might as well kill 1 bird with two stones... :)

Posted by
155 posts

I have 18days on ground, 20 Days to be exact 30th April - 20th May, with arrival to Budapest at 0720am on 1st May and leaving via Istanbul on 20th May 0120hrs.

This would be my updated schedule,

Budapest ( 2 days )
Ljubljana ( 1 day )
Lake Bled ( 1 day )
Zagreb & Plitvice NP ( 2 days )
Sarajevo ( 2 days )
Mostar ( 1 day )
Dubrovnik ( 1 day )
Kotor ( 1 day )
Skopje ( 2 day )
Sofia ( 1 day )
Istanbul ( 3 days )

I have 3 extra days in hand.

Posted by
27122 posts

I hope you'll come back after your trip and tell us how it all worked out in terms of the logistics. Not many people attempt the route you are planning, even aside from the speed.

Posted by
155 posts

Will do, anyway i winged out my trip, if its doable i'll do, if its not, i skip and get to next destination :)

Posted by
470 posts

Just a word of warning: those 3 days you have left over will be spent in transit, and likely a few more. You'll spend the better part of a day travelling between at least Budapest and Ljubljana, Kotor and Skopje, and Sofia and Istanbul.

Posted by
17929 posts
  1. Arrive Budapest
  2. Budapest
  3. Budapest to Ljubljana – 8 hours travel time
  4. Ljubljana to Lake Bled – 1 hour
  5. Lake Bled to Zagreb – 3 hours
  6. Zagreb to Plitvice – 2 hours
  7. Plitvice to Sarajevo – 6 hours
  8. Sarajevo to Mostar – 2 hours
  9. Mostar to Dubrovnik – 2 hours
  10. Dubrovnik to Kotor – 2 hours
  11. Kotor to Skopje – 6 hours
  12. Skopje
  13. Skopje to Sofia – 4 hours
  14. Sofia to Istanbul – 6 hours
  15. Istanbul
  16. Istanbul
  17. Open
  18. Open

The times are using a car. Using public transportation I would add 30% to it. So 42 hours of travel becomes 54 hours. At 16 hours a day and a half day on arrival you will have 280 waking hour to enjoy. Of your awake time 20% of it will be spent traveling. You will only sleep in the same bed twice.

You probably should add a few stops in Bulgaria and maybe a side trip to Albania.

Okay. Have a blast.

Posted by
470 posts

It does not take 8 hours to get from Budapest to Ljubljana by car, it's closer to 4 hours. The train does take over 8 hours, though. Otherwise, I agree with the estimates. I would not attempt this itinerary without a car. Even with a car, it would not be an enjoyable road trip, there are simply too many tiring roads along the way and too many places on the list.

Movexz, your plan of skipping destinations in case of setbacks may not work for many places on your itinerary. You will often find there are no easy direct alternatives that would allow you to simply bypass a place. Transportation in the Balkans is a formidable challenge when pressed for time, especially as you move further south.

Posted by
155 posts

Thank you Dejan and James E.

Travelling on a public transportation also a part of the journey as i would able to see the landscape that i could not find in my country :)

Posted by
155 posts

Hi guys,

After much thought i plan to skip ohrid skopje and sofia.

So my route would be:

Singapore-budapest-ljubljana-zagreb-dubrovnik-kotor-mostar-sarajevo-istanbul

I will fly from sarajevo to istanbul, the rest will be overland.

Does that sounds better?

Posted by
27122 posts

That's more manageable. I see that Turkish Airlines and Pegasus Airlines have non-stops from Sarajevo to Istanbul. Mind you, I've never heard of Pegasus.

Posted by
155 posts

Thinking of a route that in a way i dont need to return is there any route direct from kotor to sarajevo?

Posted by
27122 posts

Do you mean you prefer not to re-trace your steps by going back to Dubrovnik?

Rome2Rio.com is a good place to check on bus possibilities. It thinks there are three different routes in play. If you keep drilling down you should come to links to the bus companies' websites. Don't be surprised if the bus-company sites give different durations and costs than Rome2Rio shows. It tends to be rather imprecise.

Posted by
40 posts

I travelled from Kotor to Sarajevo with a private driver. Highly recommend Radoslav Bozovic at www.taxi-travel.me
Although I travel extensively by rail in Europe ( husband and 10 year old grand daughter) Eg Munich> Budapest>Novi Sad> Belgrade>Bar in Montenegro, I found it much more difficult and time consuming in Montenegro and Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Having a driver take us from Kotor to Sarajevo saved so much time. There is also a travel agency attached to the "Old Town Kotor Hostel" www.360monte.me that has a daily transfer tour that goes directly from Kotor to Mostar, €30 pp. I noticed that Mostar was on your original itInerary.
Sarajevo is an amazing place. Spend 3 nights in Sarajevo, and would have loved to have stayed longer.
Hint- if you need laundry done in Sarajevo go to see Juliet at "Laundro Lounge". Juliet is an Aussie who has lived in Sarajevo for years and can give you loads of suggestions for Sarajevo. The Tourism Office is excellent as well.
Enjoy

Posted by
155 posts

Sounds good, unfortunately i travel with a shoestring budget, private transfer is a no go. :(