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3 Months in Schengen Zone - Strategy/Approach Help

My wife and I are planning to max out our 90 days in the Schengen Zone starting in June (giving us roughly, June-Aug). It's quite the puzzle to figure out where to go, stay, inter-zone travel, etc., while also keeping in mind the best times to visit places during these times (e.g. July/Aug in southern Europe can be quite crowded and hot). To provide a little frame of reference here: 1) Aside from taking some vacation time, I'll be working remotely during this time. 2) We have visited Spain and Portugal and while we loved them both, we're trying to focus our time in places we have not yet been (most of the rest of mainland Europe). While exploration is important (that's why we're going), I'm trying to remain somewhat budget conscious. When it comes to interests, we tend to be more outdoorsy focused. However, cities in Europe are typically where one can sample the best food (aside from maybe Italy), museums, etc. Plus, I imagine internet connection is more reliable in cities, while also limiting the need for a vehicle.
The biggest struggle (aside from where to stay) is approach, for example: stay one month in three separate cities, or move around every couple weeks. I imagine the latter might increase cost due to addition travel plus missing out on the monthly discounts for lodging.

In any event, was hoping to solicit suggestions, tips, insights, highlights from past trips, etc. as I work to try to put a rough (flexible) framework in place.

Posted by
2335 posts

Quite the undertaking . 1st thing for me is off to the store to purchase a sizeable wall mounted white board . lay out the 3 months. Then right next to it a Europe wall map . Then start your dreaming / planning with some earnest.

Posted by
23269 posts

Be absolutely certain it is 90 days -- not three months. There was a posting here from someone who thought it was three month also. On the way out she was detained by exit immigration long enough to miss her flight and had to pay a 500 euro fine plus a new ticket. I would have a pad of four or five days on exiting. The 90 day limit is not to be taken lightly.

Posted by
18 posts

Yes - correct! 90 days. I suppose I just short handed with the use of 3 months. Yikes - cautionary tale which is duly noted. Thanks.

Posted by
18 posts

Hi Jay. I haven’t but will check out that link. I guess the initial thought was >90 days in the Schengen Zone and then maybe another couple of months outside (Croatia, Montenegro, UK).

Posted by
11322 posts

Regarding moving every couple of weeks or staying longer I would recommend three stays of 4 weeks each in a town or city with access to easy weekend trips by train. You can pack light and travel from your base camp for some getaways. Florence, Bologna, Oxford, Salisbury, Lyon, Marseille, Avignon, Versailles, Bern (great access to wonderful outdoor adventures!), Vienna, Edinburgh...too many to choose from.

Is there a reason you have to go in the summer? If you are working remotely, can you perhaps travel in less crowded (and hot!) months.

Posted by
8383 posts

Just one more thought for you. I think it can be a wise choice to leave about 5 days at the end of your 90 days in case you should come down with Covid and need to self-isolate for a period. It would be very sad to find on day 90 that you couldn't travel for a week.......

Posted by
18 posts

Thanks Carol. I agree, it will absolutely be wise to leave probably a week at the tail end. I have to read up, but I assume it does not count if you have maxed your 90 days but had a stop over in the Schengen Zone - where you’re just in the airport. Can anyone confirm? For example: I’ve maxed my 90 days, but am flying home from Croatia, but have a stopover in Munich.

Getting a little off topic, but was curious.

Posted by
317 posts

Florence, Bologna, Oxford, Salisbury, Lyon, Marseille, Avignon, Versailles, Bern (great access to wonderful outdoor adventures!), Vienna, Edinburgh...too many to choose from.

Remember after Brexit the UK (Salisbury, Edinburgh) are outside the EU

Posted by
18 posts

I like that idea Laurel. I may need to do some number crunching, but believe it may be pricier in that I’d be paying for two places during getaways. It may all even out. Worth researching! 😎

Posted by
17927 posts

I used to stay away from this sort of question because its too open to answer, but what the heck, here I go:

You have done Spain and Portugal (good start), so let’s mix it up a bit and lets call it 12 week trip.
If you like to cook, you know what is a Mirepoix. Europe’s Mirepoix is London, Paris & Rome so I would suggest those be the main meals on your trip. Then we nibble a little between main courses and maybe do a sampler plate?

WEEK 1 & 2: First course, Paris. Rent an AirBnb and stay 2 weeks. But not just in Paris, keep the Airbnb and do a few overnights and a few day trips. Actually, of the 2 weeks maybe you are back in Paris half the time. What to do, what to see? Start with this site: https://www.viator.com/Paris/d479-ttd I am not saying to actually use them (sometimes I do, mostly I don’t) but the provide a good representation of the options in most cities.

WEEK 3 & 4: Time to nibble for two weeks, so back on a train through Switzerland to Milan, then down the boot to Rome. Nibble means a couple of days in several locations before you reach Rome. There are so many possibilities I let you research it.

WEEK 5 & 6: Second Course: Rome for 2 weeks. Again, the Paris protocol of day trips and a few over night trips from your AirBnb

You hae now completed 6 weeks of your 12 weeks and its time to leave the structure and familiarity behind and nibble again.

WEEK 7 & 8: So, a quick trip across the Adriatic from Rome to Zagreb via Ryan Air (F/Sa/Su/M) for about $100) Two weeks in Croatia and Montenegro (and thru Bosnia) for the walled medieval cities and breath taking nature, beaches, mountains and to touch where the West truly does meet the religions and culture of the East. This is pretty much all road trip with one night here and two nights there. So far you have been independent, but for this you will need a guide with a car (I know one). But its okay, the cost of travel here is so much less than Western Europe you will hardly feel the $$ pain.

WEEK 9 & 10 & 11 Then time for the extended sampler menu with a week in Budapest via Wizz Air out of Podgorica, Montenegro (Tu/Sa) Train to Vienna for another week, then train to Prague for yet another week.

WEEK 12 & 13 London via any number of discount airlines out of Prague, where things are familiar again. And again, like in Paris and Rome you get an AirBnb and do day trips and overnights. Use Viator again for ideas.

WAIT, that’s 13 weeks?!! 13 x 7 = 91 DAYS!!!!!! Oh crap!!! Not really, Montenegro, Bosnia and Croatia are not in Schengen.

Okay that’s my stab at it. Starts and ends in cities where you should be able to find choices for an open jaw tickets for arrival and departure.
Mixes longer stays with cross country travel and mixes Western European culture with Eastern European Culture and mixes City Life with Nature.

And dont confuse the EU with Schengen. They are two different things. Just ask the Croatians. And dont confuse the EU with Europe, again, different things. Here this should clarify it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Supranational_European_Bodies_with_NATO_members-en.svg/1079px-Supranational_European_Bodies_with_NATO_members-en.svg.png 🤣😂🤣😂

Posted by
11322 posts

Yes, Mark McG, I know UK/EU/Schengen difference. Just pointing out the many places one could easily spend a month, use as a base for exploration, and I barely scratched the surface.

Mr. Man, there is time budget and money budget. Careful selection of longer-stay lodging could support the cost of a few getaways and help save time. Look at www.sabbaticalhomes.com for possible economies in housing.

Posted by
27122 posts

Be careful about Croatia. It could end up in the Schengen area before your trip.

I am currently on my sixth recent trip of three months or longer, but all have been post-retirement, so I'm not sure what rhythm would be practical for you. My usual reaction to plans to stay in one place for a month or longer and "see Country X" is that--assuming we're not talking about a very small country--it's not practical because of the limited reach you'd have from any single base. In much of western Europe the express trains will help a lot, because you can travel great distances within 2 or 3 hours, but ticket costs for those trains will be really painful if you want to remain flexible (responding to weather conditions, demands of work, etc.) and buy the tickets only a day or two ahead.

And then there's the issue of paying for lodgings in two places for the same nights. I remain unconvinced about the financial practicality of that approach if you want to do a lot of traveling away from your base. Much depends, I think, on what sort of places you plan to side trip to, and whether you can motivate yourselves to get up super-early for a 7:30 AM train so you'll have a long day at your destination. The thing is, many of the top not-London, not-Paris destinations have way more than one day's worth of sights. It would be expensive and annoying to keep making day-trips to the same place, and decamping for three nights to a destination like York would be very costly from a lodging perspective. What I'm saying is that I'm not a fan of day-tripping to York from London or to Strasbourg, Colmar or Bordeaux from Paris.

But as I said, needing to work during the trip makes a big difference.

I like the way James has mixed things up, but in London and Paris I think I could spend a month with just a modest number of not-distant out-of town trips to smal towns worth just about a day but not requiring re-visits. I think two weeks in those two cities would be too short with a bunch of day trips or weekends away.

If the trip must be in June-August, that does limit the places I'd recommend staying for an extended period. Planning five nights in Paris in July is risky, but it's only five nights. Renting a place in Paris for the month of June, July or August is something I simply would not do. But Normandy and Brittany would be fine destinations at that time of year. You might get a few days of spiking temperatures, but not an extended, miserable heatwave. Unfortunately, you cannot see even one of those areas from a single base, so you'd need to pull up stakes and relocate a lot more often than you'd probably prefer. Similarly, any place at altitude will be mostly not-hot in the summer, but such places aren't convenient bases for a bunch of side-trips unless you primarily want to go on hiking excursions.

If you haven't been to the stretch of Spain between the Basque Country and Galicia in northern Spain, that's also a great area for a summer visit. But again, fairly short stays in multiple bases would be needed to fill more than a two-week segment of your trip.

The Scandinavian capitals could work, but lodgings are quite costly, and so are restaurant meals in Norway. Trains aren't particularly cheap; nor are the buses in Norway. Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius and Gdansk are meteorologicalyl suitable and much less expensive. I don't know how long one could stay in any of those places, taking an occasional day trip, without getting antsy. I'd guess at least two weeks in Copenhagen and Stockholm, probably somewhat less in the others--though I just did nine nights in Oslo with no out-of-town trips and no local hikes, which are easily managed via local transportation.

I'd also look at Poland beyond Gdansk, but it's a large country that sort of requires stays in a bunch of different cities. I really enjoyed Warsaw, a real-world city with many historic sights though not a huge amount of historic architecture.

Posted by
17927 posts

I like the way James has mixed things up, but in London and Paris I
think I could spend a month with just a modest number of not-distant
out-of town trips to smal towns worth just about a day but not
requiring re-visits. I think two weeks in those two cities would be
too short with a bunch of day trips or weekends away.

Possibly me too, but I know that because I have been there on a few short trips.

I once thought I could spend 10 days in Vienna to discover by the 4th day I needed to get out.

I just figured since the OP hadn't traveled a lot that doing a cross section of a lot of experiences might help him discover what speaks to him; then you return.

My idea isn't right, its just a way; there is no right, just what you end up doing.

Posted by
822 posts

If you're not an EU passport holder, you can't work remotely while on vacation. Will they catch you? Who knows, but it is, technically, illegal w/o a visa.

Posted by
17927 posts

If you're not an EU passport holder, you can't work remotely while on
vacation. Will they catch you? Who knows, but it is, technically,
illegal w/o a visa

Not being an expert on the subject, cant say you are wrong, but these articles seem to refute that (but consider the source):

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/digital-nomad-visas-eu-countries#:~:text=Digital%20nomad%20visa%20VS.&text=Tourist%20visas%20are%20for%20short,if%20from%20an%20exempt%20country.

https://www.supportadventure.com/working-a-us-job-remotely-in-europe-all-you-need-to-know/

Posted by
18 posts

Great posts - thank you all! Lots to consider. Is there a slated timeframe for when Croatia would be entering the S Zone? I will need to look into this, as I was planning on it NOT being in, while on my travels.

Prague, Budapest, and to a lesser-extent Berlin, all seem to be in a similar area. If spending a month in one spot - which of those three is preferred? Budapest seems to be the least expensive. Not sure what a full month would be like, but cheap/good food is enticing. Perhaps it’s less “touristy” than Prague.

Posted by
6399 posts

No date has been set for Croatia's Schengen membership but all involved have approved it, so it can happen pretty quick. I read an interview with the Czech prime minister (Czech republic have just taken over the presidency) and he mentioned that he would like to see it happen pretty soon. So it's not impossible that Croatia will be part of Schengen next year.

Prague, Budapest, and to a lesser-extent Berlin, all seem to be in a
similar area. If spending a month in one spot - which of those three
is preferred?

It depends on what you mean by similar area. But if spending a month in one of them, it is an easy answer in my opinion. Without a doubt Berlin. Amazing city in so many ways.

And to answer your original question, it might be a good idea to not max out all 90 days and instead aim for 88 or 89 days. There are many things that can happen that can delay you, so a bit of margin is probably not a bad idea.

Also, it would be helpful if you told a bit more about what you're looking for. Also what kind of weather you enjoy, the summer can be very hot in southern Europe.

Posted by
18 posts

Thanks Badger.

We like a mix of city (food, culture, etc.) and outdoors (hiking). Initially my thought was something along the lines of starting in Rome (never been) in June - working our way north (spending some vacation time hiking around the Dolomites by the end of June / early July). Then maybe going from Milan/Venice (car drop off / airport) and going up to Berlin/Prague/Budapest during July before spending the remaining time in Slovenia. Then, depending on Schengen Zone membership, crossing into Croatia/Montenegro for mid-Aug to October.

That plan sounds good, but then I don’t know if I’m crazy for not seeing Paris (never been), anywhere in Swiss/Austrian Alps, Munich, etc. So much to consider. Other option would be to start in Barcelona/Madrid (never been) and the shortening, cutting out portion of Berlin/Prague/Budapest.

Any personal insights/opinions are welcomed!

Posted by
11180 posts

Is there a slated timeframe for when Croatia would be entering the S Zone? I will need to look into this, as I was planning on it NOT being in, while on my travels.

I have seen news report that Croatia will adopt the euro effect Jan. 1 2023 and has aspirations to make that the effective Schengen admission date, however it has not be finalized . By this time next year, Croatia being a Schengen member looks like how I would plan. ( https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/63969-eu-formally-begins-process-of-croatia-s-admission-to-schengen-area )

Posted by
18 posts

Thanks Joe. Bummer. Sounds like that rough plan I laid out will most likely not be feasible. Back to the drawing board.

Posted by
27122 posts

There are other non-Schengen countries on the Balkan Peninsula. I've only been to Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria recently. All are interesting but considerably more foreign-feeling than Croatia. That's mostly a plus for me, but along with that comes a less efficient transportation infrastructure. Ther are few if any express trains, so you cannot range very widely in an hour. On the other hand,, I was told by a guide that Romania has really solid internet service, which I assume will be important to you.

Montenegro has lots of interesting towns plus some dramatic scenery in a nice, small package. It's probably worth more time than you were planning to give it unless you've done substantial research. Note, though, that the reportedly scenic national parks do not have bus service, so occasional car rental would be recommended.

Budapest is a fascinating city, a very nice place to be and less obviously overrun by tourists than Prague, but it's hard to touch Berlin in terms of sheer number of historical sites and museums. In 2015 I found Berlin quite a bit less expensive than I was expecting it to be. And from a weather perspective, Berlin is close to the part of Germany that is rarely hot in summer. (Mind you, I don't know exactly where that line is.) The city itself may or may not be substantialy cooler than Prague and Budapest; Wikipedia will give you monthly averages, probably somewhat outdated but perhaps still usable for a comparison. If you were melting in Prague or Budapest, I think you'd need to head for the mountains; I don't know how big a deal that would be from a time perspective.

Posted by
977 posts

Not being an expert on the subject, cant say you are wrong

Yes it is illegal for a third country citizen to work remotely in the Schengen area, it's also illegal for most EU/EEA/CH citizens as well. But the chances of being caught are low, however for third citizens it can result in deportation, fines and being banned from reentry.

Posted by
17927 posts

You have 3 month more or less. You have little experience in Europe as a whole. If you ask here where to spend a month you will get a dozen answers. Each of those answers based upon the experiences of those that traveled around a bit till they found the place that they liked the most.

For you, I wouldn’t spend a month anywhere as it would just cheat you out of the opportunity to find what interests you. Personally, me, where could I spend a month? Hungary, Montenegro or Ukraine and I know that because I traveled to a lot of places before I realized what worked best for me. You should do the same, you have an ideal opportunity.

I am not a big fan of Croatia (been twice); love Montenegro (been thrice) and Montenegro isn’t Schengen and wont be anytime soon. I like Bosnia & Herzegovina more than Croatia (also not Schengen). All sort of make sense if you start in Milan and work your way down to Rome and then jump over to the Balkans before working your way north to Budapest, Vienna and Prague …..

And Jim; now at least I know to hide my laptop screen in the bar next week. Unfortunate they would be so punitive to prevent people from checking into the office while on vacation. Its why I dont trust the internet cause a lot of websites say something like this:

Foreigners who wish to do some remote work whilst on holiday in Europe
can do so with a tourist visa, or visa-free if from an exempt country.
From 2023, the ETIAS authorisation for Europe will be required for
short, visa-free stays in the Schengen Area.

Posted by
739 posts

I am lost by the term “third country”

Does this mean that is I am a US Citizen in Europe and I spend a half hour working remotely on a project for my US employer on a US job I have broken the law?

What if I have a US employer but the job is in Europe?

Posted by
4519 posts

On the way out she was detained by exit immigration long enough to miss her flight and had to pay a 500 euro fine plus a new ticket.

We don’t know the history of this person or what visa was involved. I found online a 2 day overstay and fine story but it was an Indian national on a working visa. A person entering on a 90 day visa waiver should plan to leave at 90 days but it’s not worth cutting your trip short by a week as a contingency against hospitalization or other extreme event.

Posted by
597 posts

My only opinion is that you keep up to date with airline/country restrictions for entering, or flying in case you come down with COVID. What I would do is give myself a buffer to stay extra in case I am not allowed to travel. Having said that, I don't know what airlines are doing now

Posted by
23269 posts

....We don’t know the history of this person or what visa was involved...... Yes, we do. It was a posting by the father of a US female citizen who was spending the summer in Europe. He returned a couple of times to clarify points. She was backpacking and assumed she had three months but was a day late leaving. Nothing special. Just a student spending the summer in Europe. In the same posting, another student responded that he knew he was over two weeks late leaving and was prohibited from returning to the Schengen zone for two years. The Europeans take this Schengen zone thing pretty serious.

Posted by
32767 posts

I remember the same thread as Frank, and agree with the details he remembers.

Posted by
11180 posts

Posted by Norma
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
05/21/15 02:01 PM
8293 posts
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A few years ago a man posted on this subject. His daughter had overstayed in the Schengen zone (I can't remember by how many days, but it doesn't really matter) and was stopped at the airport for questioning the day of her flight home to the U.S.
As a result: 1) she was fined 500 euro on the spot 2) she was barred from entry to Schengen Europe for 5 years. 3) she missed her flight and had to pay for a new ( very pricey) flight. If you use the search feature you can probably find the post.
( https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/fines-for-overstaying-in-schengen-and-for-how-many-days-of-limit-exceeded )

I did find this as well, but not his original report

Posted by Dennis
Redmond, WA
01/09/14 06:02 PM
295 posts
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..., I was the fellow whose daughter overstayed the Schengen zone by three days. And got a 500 Euro fine, which I paid. So, when listening to advice, remember, they can (and do) check for visas, as everything is computerized across the zone. As Lee says (and he has been a wondrous source of accurate information over the years), within the zone no one checks. It's exiting that leaves you at risk of a fine, and worse.

(https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/six-month-stay-in-europe ) [Its the 21st item in the string]

Posted by
11180 posts

I may have found the original post by Dennis, whose daughter overstayed

Posted by Dennis
Redmond, WA
04/28/12 03:03 PM
295 posts
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Whoa! The last posting can lead some astray. They DO care, and they can fine you big time (my daughter was fined 500 Euros for overstaying 3 days). And, they threatened her with the other punishments they can mete out: refusing entry into the Schengen area for up to 10 years; they kept her waiting for a long time and she almost missed her flight. They could have then forced her to buy a ticket again and send her packing. It really depends on the officials you encounter on leaving. We have friends who have had even worse experiences at the airport in Berlin. By arriving in Ireland you're going to be OK, but, dear readers, don't assume since one person hasn't been hassled you won't. The downside can be quite nasty.(emphasis added) [ https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/will-i-have-a-visa-problem ]

Not surprisingly as time has passed some details have gotten hazy in the retelling 10 years ago the fine was 500 euro. What it is today...? I will let someone else do that research

Posted by
4519 posts

Well, a 3 day overstay isn’t confusing 90 days with 3 months, and certainly more extreme than a 1 day overstay, or even 2. 3 days isn’t an accident or a counting days goof.

And we still don’t know her story, what did she do the previous year? Although a 3 day overstay may be severe enough to not require a previous offense.