3 Months budget style Europe Trip - any advice on many questions please!!!

SazMcG I thought you were insane until I noted you were from Australia, and this is a traditional Australian walkabout - my cousin did the same thing. I can't comment on most of the detailed questions, but a few general comments: I am guessing that you have specific reasons you want to spend so much time in Norway relative to France & Italy. Your itinerary does seem somewhat scattered. I think you should draw it out on a map, and include the travel time (train or plane, plus the time to get to and from hotels, etc.) between all your destinations. Three months sounds like a lot of time, but if you are spending a huge percentage of it in rail stations, or on a train, you will be exhausting yourself. For example, I think it will take up a whole travel day to get from Marseille to Venice, or Berlin to Munich. Maybe you should just plan where you want to start and end, and then decide what feels good when you hit the ground.

I'm slightly envious that you can take 3 months off - it will probably be the last time till you retire 40 years from now so enjoy it :-)

One concern: You are flying a lot north and south. Why not start in the north and move south? You might save some travelling time and you will get better weather.

One advice: Do NOT plan too much in advance - or at least do not be tied to your plan.
You get new ideas when you talk to other travellers - Since you are on a budget trip I presume you are staying in hostels most of the time, and you will meet others like yourself.
I suggest you make a list - or better yet: a map - with

1. the things you MUST see,
2. the things you would like to see, and
   
3. the things you feel obliged to see (but could skip if you get a good excuse)

I hope you will enjoy your trip :-)

So, to tie up old loose ends, have you decided against splitting into two trips? Is this the summer or winter trip? Do you know that you can walk on a glacier in France and Switzerland in mid-summer without the detour north? I remember that the Northern Lights were important, are you content that you may go all the way north and still miss them? Do you know that there is no need to drive from Berlin to Munich, and that the ICE train gets you there way faster? No car I know that can do 300 kmh.

a better way to connect the dots but still with good weather?

Nobody knows. The closer you get to the shortest day of the (Northern Hemisphere) of the year the greater the probability of bad weather, wherever you are in Europe.

saz,

i agree to get a map out and plot where you want to go. then look at train vs plane vs bus vs whatever mode of transportation you want to do.

for a train web site this is a good one. seat61 unfortunately you will have to read on whats what. here is another one for info too since everyone and their dog loves it. bahn and finally you can look here too rome2rio. you can get an idea on how much time & $$$ for you little hops.

as far as where you want to go, its too early for me to use my brain, so i will let others comment.

one comment about museums. I dont know about others, but if i were to read everything in a museum i would still be in Scotland or London on my first trip 3 years ago. So, i pick and choose what i want to read. Theres also alot of eye candy in them too. But i see it as theres ALOT of awesome stuff you wont see anywhere else, but thats up to you.

good luck and happy trails.

Another comment on museums, if this helps on some level. Many these days offer an audioguide in several languages, either included in the admission price or for a nominal extra charge. You can often key in a code (push "22," for example, to hear about item #22 on display) to hear about just what you want to know more about (skipping the stuff you don't), and the audioguides sometimes include some music, sound effects, or are narrated by a celebrated person to add some spice to the content. You walk around with a handset up to your ear (and some folks have theirs turned up so high you can sometimes hear theirs about as easy as you hear yours), but that can save lots of reading, and you can even listen about something in the museum while walking to another part of the museum. Rick Steves even offers audio downloads on his Website for several great museums that describe their highlights, and you can listen on the fly with your Kindle or other electronic device.

Re: reading in museums
I have a relative who studied art in college - she said she deliberately did not read the captions for works of art in museums, at least not initially, because that way she tended to look at the pieces longer and more carefully, and appreciate them more. Reading is optional, is what I'm saying.

I don't understand why you're still planning to drive from Berlin to Munich in one day, when you don't have any significant stops planned along the way, other than Dresden for lunch. Dresden is served by train and the whole day's itinerary is easy enough by train, or Dresden's also a good stop overnight. As on the previous thread, driving makes more sense if you have more stops, preferably at destinations that are not served by train.

By hopping between such distant countries, you are reducing the number of trains for which you might use a rail pass. Flying makes more sense for these distances and can be quite affordable, especially when booked ahead. I count at least 6 flights during your listed travels. See www.skyscanner.com.

Personally, I think you're hopping around too much. You can never see everything, so you should plan as though you will come back. A big city and one or two side trips from that city just gives you a taste of the country, but each has much more to offer.

I definitely agree about the hopping around, I don’t want to; I’m just not sure a better way to connect the places? The only place I have to be is in Munich for Oktoberfest and to leave Norway till last as I’ve read there is more chance to see the Northern Lights the later you go.

So as far as North to South how would you arrange it, l.p.enersen?

Stan and Nigel – Well the Northern Lights are the one thing we can both agree on that we want to see and probably how the trip started altogether. I could cut down Norway just thought if I was flying there specifically then we might as well hang around a bit and then as you say if we aren’t fortunate to catch the lights it as not for nothing.

I would like to do two trips, one for summer and one for winter but my partner is not willing to come over twice even though I have tried to convince him, and if I don’t go with him I can’t justify myself spending that much money to go with friends.

My partner is pretty keen on driving everywhere to be honest but I know it would be cheaper to train/plane and way less hassle on finding places to park the thing. So as a compromise we are going to drive from Munich to berlin, something he really wants to do. (But I think he just likes being in control and this will make him feel more comfortable)

With regard to the first part of your trip - Cut down Berlin to 3 nights and on your drive from Berlin to Munich stay one night Rothenberg and one night Fussen then to Munich. the other way you are backtracking and paying for transportation to the two towns when you will already have a car and practically pass right through Rothenberg and Fussen anyway. the parking isn't a problem in either of those two towns, but return the car in Munich, it is worst then driving in NYC. I understand your partner wanting to drive the autobahn, my husband said it was a highlight. I guess because of the no speed limit. we did the exact same trip (with a stop in Weinheim) two summers ago and had a wonderful time.

Hello SazMcG. (Edit) I think being at Manchester, Liverpool, Loch Nest, northern Norway, and Munich during Octoberfest is not enjoyable or pleasant. If travelers wish to spend a minimal amount of money for transportation at Europe, I suggest buying a Eurail pass : 10 day select for youth. It is not a high price for persons whose age is younger than 26. That rail pass can be purchased in the United States of America. I guess it can be purchased at Australia. And, I recommend reading the first half of the book "Rick Steves' Europe Through The Back Door". It was published in the United States of America. Reading the edition of that book that is for this year is not necessary. The first half of that book gives advice and knowledge on how to travel in Europe. It includes a chapter on travelling in railroad trains in Europe. And, information about Rail passes for travel in Europe are at this website (www.ricksteves.com).

Sarah,

I understand the pressure from your partner to let it all hang out on the autobahn. The temptation of no speed limit and the myth of the autobahn can be quite powerful.

Unfortunately the reality can sometimes be different than the dream.

You must learn the meaning of STAU, when the traffic suddenly stops, often with no obvious reason. It can be quite a surprise if you are barreling along at 180 clicks and all the traffic just stops. Reactions are important, as are the reactions of the guy right behind you.

There have been a number of discussions of autobahn driving here on the Helpline. The search facility here is fairly pants so googling works best.

One particular old thread that might be worth a read is at https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/to-the-west/renting-a-car-to-drive-in-germany

I understand that you are trying to do one trip instead of two, and trying as hard as you can to save money. There are some things that we can advise you that will allow you to keep some of that hard earned money. 90 days, two people, the money will add up...

I would get a paper map and see what cities/attrachtions/countries are next to each other and do the trip in a circlular direction, either counter clockwise or clockwise. You will not be able to see everything you want on this trip. I would also try not to backrack as that watses time. I would maximize time with friends as often those can be the highlights of a trip (or be complete disasters).

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A sample itinerary: Berlin-->rest of Germany--->Norway?--> fly to Greece--> fly to Italy-->train or fly to France--> train to Belgium??-->ferry/train to UK--> fly to Ireland--> fly home (just an idea).

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If you do not want to do Spain I would plan on skipping it for now while you make your initial plans. Add it back in if and only if you end up having time aftering planning your must do attivities.

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Also remeber to be flexiable about your plans your may find the best memories come from unplanned and unexplacted places. If you start overly stressing about being places you will not enjoy your trip.
J

Hello SazMcGee. You asked about a multi flight ticket of an airline. I think most airlines let people do a stopover (such as flying to Berlin, and a few days later flying from Berlin to London). Most airlines impose a fee for that (250 U.S. Dollars, or higher). A few years ago, British Airways did not impose a fee for doing a stopover. I do not know if that privilege continues to exist now.

Is this your first trip to Europe? If so ,remember Rick's motto"assume you will return". I just returned,in Aug., from 3 months in Europe.It was my 9th trip. I can tell you that your plan will be very taxing,even for 25 yr olds. Sometimes trying to see everything on 1 trip means experiencing so much less. 2 or 3 weeks is one thing but 3 months of 2 night stays can go from fun to work. On a first trip,my suggestion would be to pick the 4 or 5 areas in Europe that your most interested in seeing and really enjoy them. When you get home if you liked traveling through Europe then you'll plan another trip. Also,flying from 1 area to the next is really cheap over there. Check out "skyscanner.com" for flights. While in Croatia I flew from Split to Zagreb,an 8 hr drive, in 30 mins. for $70. When you figure in gas, eating and your time it's a no brainer. ASSUME YOU WILL RETURN!

I absolutely love the first comment at the top -- I, too, I thought you were insane, but Australians are... intrepid.

I'd really advise against moving so fast through all these countries. From your description of what you're looking for, you could easily spend two weeks in Berlin without getting bored. And it's affordable.

I can't imagine how much all this would cost... and I'd be dizzy and exhausted (not to mention maybe even sick) traveling around so much. Then again, I'm not 25 anymore!

Good luck and have fun!

Get a map, a calendar and a PENCIL and plot your wish list, then check rome2rio for travel methods, distances; their cost estimates tend to be high because they don't list bargain fares.

Then, add or eliminate places/number of days.

Note that picking up a car in one country and dropping it off in another can carry big fees.

I would also suggest taking a longer stay somewhere every few weeks, or putting yourselves somewhere to just relax for a couple of nights at a couple of points in your trip. I used to do 3-5 month trips (before Schengen rules) with 1-2 nights in each place, so it can be done, but it can be exhausting without a little relaxation break.

I love that first comment on the top too!

Not much to add here except to agree about too many places. Every move eats time and money so those longer stays (with day trips) are never a bad idea - unless that ends up being a place that doesn't trip your trigger.

Just to comment on Rome: the Vatican is in the middle of Rome itself. LOL, we have shopping malls here in the U.S. which take up more real estate! Aside from garden tours (fee), tourists aren't allowed into the interior. What they're allowed to access are the basilica (St Peter's: free) the Vatican Museums/Sistine (vast: fee), and Necropolis (fee; must book well in advance).

I'm guessing you won't be keen on the gardens and Necropolis, and unless you're really into art/artifacts, even the museums/Sistine may not be your cuppa. I'm probably ducking a hail of rotten veg for even suggesting a skip there but there's no shame in having other interests. To be honest, I think the large majority of visitors to the museums are there only to see the Sistine. No shame in being one of those either: it all depends on best use of your time/money to feed your interests.

Based on your mention of wanting to see ruins and ancient sites, I'd send you out for a (sunny) day walking the Appia Antica instead. Some nice landscapes out there too. But too much detail this early in the game - just thinking about matching the must-do's to what will suit you best versus the standard Top 10, if that makes any sense?

It is hard to decide between the touristy things that everyone does so they have that one picture and things that i want to do but it is hard to figure out what those other better, more authentic, or just as good but less crowded things are because websites and travel agencies only list those photo opportunity type of sight seeing.

I am liking the idea of being more based somewhere and do day trips from there. But i think its important to note about us Australians, our country is big and travelling long distances doesnt seem to be an issue as opposed to the feeling i get form most people on these forums. I used to drive 1 hour and a half to University every day. Family holidays are usually driving interstate. So the prospect of travelling to get around places probably doesn't bother us as much. but i do completely agree if you are hopping from one place to another all the time you will get very sick of it very soon.

Any recommendation then on the amount of time you would spend in the places i have listed or maybe cut them out altogether? any advice is much appreciated.

saz,

It is hard to decide between the touristy things that everyone does so they have that one picture and things that i want to do but it is hard to figure out what those other better, more authentic, or just as good but less crowded things are because websites and travel agencies only list those photo opportunity type of sight seeing.

this is where doing ones own homework will filter out some of the "noise". Don't forget that its not an "all or nothing" type of trip. Also, dont get into the mindset that "touristy" doesnt mean it cant be "authentic". Is the Sydney Opera House "touristy", is it not "Authentic". Same with what makes each and every place "unique".

I dont like crowds, but i choose to ignore them (unless they are hot) and do my thing. Sometimes its the crowds that makes a place and sometimes a crowd can spoil it too. If you dont like crowds, then mix up your travels with some back 40 place where there isn't anything to attract the tourist.

I am liking the idea of being more based somewhere and do day trips from there. But i think its important to note about us Australians, our country is big and travelling long distances doesnt seem to be an issue as opposed to the feeling i get form most people on these forums. I used to drive 1 hour and a half to University every day. Family holidays are usually driving interstate. So the prospect of travelling to get around places probably doesn't bother us as much. but i do completely agree if you are hopping from one place to another all the time you will get very sick of it very soon.

If you like to drive, go for it. Or let me put it this way. If you could take a train from your home? to the University and if you could walk or take a bus to/from the train station to home/university, would you? You are seeing Europe through your eyes and how you are accustomed to doing/living. Us Americans do the same thing, thats why you see a lot of "is it safe over in X" questions and many others just like you that want to drive everywhere.

They have a way better train system than in the USA and what i like is that they go from CITY CENTER TO CITY CENTER. All of the cities i have visited have other public transit also, so once you get off the train, you can get a bus, tram or subway or taxi. Also some of most of the places i have visited were walkable. Some you would want to use public transit or a car, but thats up to you. also, I'm sure its been mentioned that some cities dont have a lot of parking or there are fees for going into the city like London.

Any recommendation then on the amount of time you would spend in the places i have listed or maybe cut them out altogether? any advice is much appreciated.

I would start with your local library and/or get some guide books. they will usually have something like "Berlin in x days" or maybe something like "Germany in x days". It will spell out for you what the path will cover so you should be able to figure out if its for you or if what its covering will be to your liking, if you know what those are.

happy trails.

In Italy, I recommend staying at Monasterystays.com. I used their site to stay in Venice, Florence & Rome a few years ago and I was very pleased. I used the search in the site to find places that were in the city, close to public transportation, and wi-fi. A couple of the included breakfasts were huge so saved me a lot on food for the day. In Venice I was able to use the dining room for dinner and put together a market/small shop meal.

RS recommended Monastery Stays and it has worked for me.