Munich or Salzburg? I can't decide.

ARRIVAL IN EUROPE: Early morning arrival in London.

London: 3 days, 3 nights. My original plan was 2 days, 2 nights.
Berlin: 3 days, 4 nights. Is this too much time in Berlin?
Vienna: 1 day, 2 nights. My original plan was 1 day, 1 night. I was going to fly to Munich instead, and take the night train from Vienna, but I figured only one night in a city would be too hectic. I then changed it to 2 days, 2 nights, but I wasn't sure if I was allotting too much time to a city that I'd already visited, especially considering all the advice I'd read about giving Vienna only 1 day. Is the day trip to Bratislava worth it?
Munich/Salzburg: 3 days, 3 nights in one, day trip to the other. The question is, which gets which?
Venice: 3 days, 3 nights.
Rome: 3 days, 4 nights.
Paris: 3 days, 4 nights. Originally I had planned to take an overnight train to Paris, with a stopover in Milan, but I was advised to fly instead to save time. Only one person has said that Milan was worth visiting.
Brussels: 1 day, 2 nights. Considering a day trip to Bruges after my arrival (early train, check in at hostel, drop off luggage, train to Bruges and come back for the night). The full day would be spent in Brussels.
Amsterdam: 2 days, 3 nights. Stopover in Rotterdam?

DEPARTURE FROM EUROPE: Take off from Amsterdam to London, land at the same airport as my flight back to the States 3 hours before scheduled departure. The timing of the flights, and hence the elimination of another trek to the airport, was a huge factor in Amsterdam being the last city on my itinerary. Flying open-jaw is not an option; the round-trip to London has already been booked. Most trans-atlantic flights connect in London anyway, so I don't think I'm causing myself too much of an inconvenience by doing it this way. I think 3 hours is plenty of time to grab my luggage, check back in and go through security again, but I might be wrong.

What do you guys think of all this?

Eren, On our 1st big trip to Europe we spent 4 nights in Munich, and 3 in Salzburg. I much prefer Salzburg, but I am one who can only take so much of big cities. In my opinion there is probably more of a variety of things to do in Munich, but as soon as I saw that you are a classically trained musician I wondered how you could even consider anything other than Salzburg. One of our most memorable experiences was going to an evening concert in Mirabell Platz. There are always several day and evening concerts going on in Salzburg. It's a music mecca! It definately has much more of a small town feel to it. I personally think you should try to at least spend 1 night there.

A good day trip from Munich is Dachau concentration camp - if you haven't been to one before.

What if I take a "day" trip to Salzburg, but stay the night there and return to Munich the next morning? I want to eliminate the hassle of packing my bags and checking in/out as much as possible. I would rather be stationed in one place than spend the night in two, especially since they are so close to each other.

Alternatively, should I station myself in Salzburg, and take the day trip (with unofficial overnight stay) in Munich? If Munich has better nightlife, this might be the option that makes the most sense. But then, what other day trips could I take from Salzburg?

I based myself in Salzburg. I have a degree in flute, so classical music is a big part in my life. The Mozart museums brought Mozart to life and now really think of him as a human being as well the great composer he was. I went to Vienna from Salzburg. Vienna should be at least two days. I spent only one day there, and was very frustrated I stayed such a short time. Now I have a need to go back to see more. This is the most wonderful trip for a classical musician. I don't regret spending so much time in Salzburg. However, I didn't go to Munich, so I can't advise on that.
I also want to add, Rick Steves new show on Vienna is great for a classical musician, or for everyone to watch. You may know this already, but Rick is a very well trained pianist and his father a piano importer. I got to know Rick through music, and not much through travel at first. Weird, I know! He also did a great show in Salzburg, and that was about two years ago. In Berlin in 2007, I went to hear the Berlin Philharmonic. I think it's so nice to have a travel expert that understands music and art, and everything else. Well, I wont go into his politics! Lol! That would cause a stir!

Hi Lisa,

Nice to meet a fellow classical musician! I'm a pianist.

Here's the thing. If my trip were intended to be a pilgrimage to Mozart, then there would be no question in my mind that I should station myself in Salzburg rather than Munich. But although I love classical music and its history, I wouldn't say that it is my life. I felt that it was sufficient to do the overnight stay in one Mozart city and a day trip to the other. I chose Vienna for the overnight because of its location (Munich and Salzburg are just too close to warrant an overnight in both), and I gave it only one day because I had been there previously.

So now, my concern with Salzburg is whether there is anything to do at night. If so, then I would probably stay there, since the overnight train from Salzburg to Venice has better departure and arrival times than the train from Munich. But I heard that it is a small town, and that Munich offers more big-city appeal. There are also various day trips that I can take from Munich in addition to Salzburg. See, this is why I'm so confused!

Is there anyone who's been to both places, that shares my night-owl interests?

I understand Eren. Very true that Salzburg is not much for nightlife. Too bad Berlin is so far. Berlin is huge on night life! If you do make it to Berlin, you will love it there! I know there are other people that can help you out here. I've never been to Munich, so I would also be interested in what people say about Munich and of course other places as well.
I see your from CA. I'm going to be in CA in two weeks! Can't wait! I'm an night owl too! It's 2:15am in Austin now!lol!

I am not a big fan of Munich, but if you want to do day trips you could not only go to Salzburg from Munich, but southern Bavaria as well. Mittenwald and Garmisch-Partenkirchen are worth a day trip. Munich is just a big city and Salzburg has a lot of charm, but I don't think you would find a lot to do at night in Salzburg.

I think Eren deserves two stars on this forum. One for being very specific about her preferences, likes, and dislikes, and having a reasonable itinerary. The second star is for not asking if she can make it into London during her three hour layover.

Eren,
I have been to both Munich and Salzburg and I loved them both. I think there is more nightlife in Munich. I took a beer tour in the evening which was a lot of fun and also a Hitler tour during the day. I also enjoyed seeing the castles in Ruette and Dachau concentration camp. I also spent one night in Rothenburg. Near Salzburg you can do day trips to Halstatt, Berchestgarden and Zell Am See.

Hi Eren,

What a great trip! With regards to the whole Munich/Salzburg question - it's really personal pref as there is much to do in both places. We based in Salzburg because it was so lovely, less than 2 hrs from Munich, and quite near the lake district. Munich will have a more lively nightlife but there are late night concerts and things in Salzburg as well as a few clubs. An evening concert a the Fortress is not to be missed. For me it would be Salzburg hands down with a day/night trip to Munich. With regards to taking a night train to Venice from Munich/Salzburg - is that available? It's only a 5hr ride from Salzburg and that is not usually an overnight. Let me know if you want lodging/activity recommendations. Have a great time! Michelle

Wow, thanks so much to everyone for your input!

Still unsure of my decision, but keep 'em coming!

Lisa - not sure of where you are going in CA, but if you can do try to make it to San Francisco. I used to live in the Bay Area before moving to SoCal for school, and I like it up there so much better than here. Great city with lots of character and culture, not to mention way more interesting people! To be fair, I can't bash LA entirely, since I've only lived here a few months. But so far I am not terribly impressed. As a city it just doesn't hold a candle to SF, and the traffic is terrible 24/7.

Karen - Thank you! I must admit, I did a ton of research before posting. I'm sure you've come across quite a few itineraries trying to squeeze 12 cities in 2 weeks, LOL.

Hi Eren,
Check your private messages. I wrote you there because I didn't want to get off topic on the forum.
You did get some great answers here. I did take some of the day trips people suggested. Up in the mountains, close to nature. Are you more interested in city day trips or both? If you do decide to stay in Salzburg, I'm sure you'll find something to do at night. I still can't help but agree with others about staying in Salzburg, and it's very BEAUTIFUL there at night! But the evening beer tour in Munich sounds fun!!
This is very tricky! Good luck on deciding!

Munich is bigger and has more options. Although I love Salzburg, I would do most of the time in Munich and spend a day in Salzburg. Salzburg is compact and a day there will cover most of the sites in town.

Hi Eren. My vote is for Salzburg, but I think it depends on what you mean by "nightlife." If you mean sitting under the chestnut trees or in the beer hall atmosphere at Augustinerbrau drinking beer served from oak barrels....Salzburg has that. Or are you interested in the handful of Irish Pubs (O'Malley's, Murphy's Law Irish Pub, Shamrock Irish Pub, or Dubliner) in Salzburg. There is also a Jazz Club on Elisabethstrasse. Bricks Music Bar is a hopping place and open until 4:00am. This is all in addition to the evening castle concerts at the Fortress and Schloss Mirabell. There is going to be so much going on in the summer because that is Salzburg Festival time (late July and August). Just my opinion.

Okay, here's what I'm thinking:

London: 3 days, 3 nights.
Berlin: 3 days, 4 nights.
Vienna: 1 day, 2 nights.
Salzburg: 3 days, 3 nights.
Munich: Day trip from Salzburg with de facto overnight stay. If Munich's nightlife is any good I'll probably be up all night anyway. Return to Salzburg at whatever time I feel like the next day.
Venice: 3 days*, 3 nights.
Rome: 3 days, 4 nights.
Paris: 3 days, 4 nights.
Brussels: 1 day, 2 nights. Day trip to Bruges upon arrival, full day in Brussels.
Amsterdam: 2 days, 3 nights.

I chose Salzburg for a couple of reasons. First of all, it seems like a large majority are in favor of Salzburg. Not just on this forum, but on another where I posted the same topic. Also, Michelle and Diane informed me that there are things to do at night if you know where to look. So thank you!

Another reason I chose Salzburg is because of transportation. Salzburg would only be a 3 hour train ride from Vienna, while Munich would be at least 4. Also, as I said earlier, I like the night train hours better (1 am to 8 am, as opposed to Munich's night train to Venice, which is 9 pm to 6 am; I hope this answers your question Michelle).

But the main reason I chose Salzburg is because I took a careful look at my itinerary, and realized that I would be spending quite a bit of time in big cities with tons of nightlife. London, Berlin, Rome, Paris and Amsterdam all have 3 or 4 nights. So it won't kill me to spend a couple nights in a quiet town; in fact, it might do me some good! Besides, just because I am stationed there doesn't mean I have to spend every night there.

Thank you so much to everyone for all your opinions and advice. If this trip turns out to be a blast, I'll owe it to you guys.

This sounds like a great trip! I envy you! You won't be sorry you chose Salzburg. The people there are friendly and cheerful. I talked to many locals that do speak pretty good English. I'm looking forward to hearing about your trip when you return, and I really want to know how you like the nightlife in Berlin! One of the best! I'm not into nightlife as much as you, but in Berlin, I couldn't help it, and really let my hair down! Oh, what a fun place Berlin is. I want to go back!

One thing that is very important to me is keeping an open mind, and remaining flexible. I am willing to change my plans as I see fit. Before this forum, I was dying to see Munich, until I kept hearing that it wasn't all that. If I get bored with Salzburg after a day, I can always switch back to Munich, right? Might cost a bit more, but my flight was a steal, and I discovered that by buying point-to-point train tickets I would be spending $200 less than I would with a rail pass. So I'm okay with having to spend a little more if it means my schedule isn't rigid.

Just out of curiosity, do you guys think it's too ambitious to try and have at least 1 full day and 2 overnights in both places? It would mean shaving off a day from another city, and no day trips.

Sounds like a fabulous time! If you are really interested in doing equal time in Munich and Salzburg, then you could probably shave off a day in either Amsterdam or Venice. Both are great but an extra day in Salzburg/Munich would be better spent imho. Bon Voyage!

You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing about Amsterdam. I've heard that it's gotten really seedy (can anyone verify if this is true?), and while I'm not against drug legalization, I'm not a person who would take advantage of it.

Venice is a place that I've wanted to visit for as long as I can remember, even more than Munich. But again, I keep reading forums that say Venice can be seen in 1 or 2 days tops. Sigh. I guess I'll just have to go and find out for myself.

I am jumping in here a bit late, but I also wanted to say how nicely organized you are Eren. I think you are going to have a great time over here.

No one has said a whole lot about Berlin, but that is a place where I would add an extra day. Do a side trip to Potsdam and see Sans Soucci palace. It is drop dead gorgeous! There is seriously a lot to do there and if you are a night person, that is where I would go for the most fun.

If you do not make it to Dachau, you can always go to Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp and/or Ravensbruck. Ravensbruck has just opened an exhibit about the women who were used as sex slaves. It has been kept sort of quiet all these years and now it is being presented to the public.

If you want to drop a day, then perhaps Amsterdam, though I think the night life there is also good.

Jo,

Please. There is no such thing as jumping in late; all opinions are welcome! Are Sachsenhausen or Ravensbruck feasible as day trips from Salzburg? If so then I think you've just helped solidify my decision.

LOL about the organized comment. My friends constantly make fun of me for how organized I am. Even with flexibility built into my itinerary...I guess some things you just can't hide. But I didn't want to start a discussion thread sounding like an idiot who just wants to go on vacation without doing any research. I read a lot of forums before posting to this one, and so often I thought, "What makes you think you can pull that off?"

Oh, I am sorry, no, those concentration camps are near Berlin. Dachau is near Munich. Sachsenhausen was the first camp built and was mainly for the political prisoners, men only. The communists used this camp after the war too. Ravensbruck was for the women. They are about 50 min. away from Berlin.

I've talked about Berlin quite a bit on this thread.
It's one of my favorite places in Europe, and I hope many people get a chance to Experience Berlin. There are many fun things to do, but you can get to very serious stuff as well. Checkpoint Charlie is worth going too. I was very moved by it.
Have a great trip!!!

Lisa, you did say some great things about Berlin. I did not mean to ignore what you had written. We liked it a lot too and wish more people would go there. It does not get talked about near as much as Munich.

Glad you enjoyed it and hope you come back soon!

Yes you can drop time from Amsterdam.

If you want to see good museums Rome, Paris, Berlin and London are tops. Even Munich's Old Art Museum (Alte Pinoketec) is better than the Rijksmuseum. Amsterdam's Van Gogh museum is good, but only for his early works that are hard to recognize as being painted by him. Most of Van Gogh's most recognizable works were painted multiple times and versions are displayed in major galleries worldwide.

Amsterdam has some good walks and I enjoyed the canal tour but the main attraction seems to be illicit drugs and sex.

See Amsterdam but don't plan a lot of time there.

IMO, two days/three nights is a perfect amount of time for Amsterdam. The Rijks Museum is one of the top art museums in the world and should not be missed. Around July 1st the Amsterdam branch of the Russian Hermitage Museum will reopen, making it the largest art museum in the city; thus you should allow extra time for it. Other must see museums include: FOAM, the Tropical Museum, Resistance Museum, Stedelijk Museum, and the annual Photojournalism show at the Old Church. Amsterdam is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, I've never considered it "seedy", large sections of the city look exactly as it did over 300 years ago, if you can filter out the satellite dishes, and parked cars:)

I can't help but wish to have more than one night in Munich. Not just for the nightlife, but the day trips! I found out that with a Bayern ticket I can travel all over Bavaria, and that would take a day in and of itself.

But I don't want to shave off days from any of the other cities, even Amsterdam.

What about this?

Vienna to Munich.
1 full day and 2 nights in Munich.
Munich to Salzburg.
1 night and 1 day* in Salzburg.
As the night train from Salzburg departs at 1:34 am, I'll have had plenty of time there during the day.

I realize this is backtracking a little, but I'm okay with that. What do you guys think of this plan? Too hectic with only one night in a city? (I do agree with Rick's sentiment to avoid one night stands, but I'm only doing it once on this itinerary.) Not enough time in either city?

Hi Eren. Obviously you are a very organized and ambitious person and I give you much credit for that. It really is well worth it to have all your ducks in a row when traveling. And I see that you are working very hard on making sure you do. Please do not take this negatively but...when do you plan on sleeping? LOL. I'm sure you have that all under control but I just wanted to point out that putting many miles on your feet absorbing all the sights during the day and then enjoying the nightlife and then taking late night trains may be an issue. Just something to think about.

Also, in order for you to figure out whether to stay in Munich or Salzburg you're going to have to figure out what you want to do and see in each place and how long that would take. Besides the nightlife, do you have a plan for what your days will be like in each city? What are you're must-sees? Once you figure out what YOU want, you'll know better which to stay in or how to divide it up.

Diane - no offense taken. I understand your sentiments. I was actually considering lengthening my trip for those very reasons, before I even saw your post. It'll cost me, of course, but I think it might be worth it to not have to make this decision, and to have more time in every city.

The money I'd lose by changing my flight is actually less than the money I'd save by not buying a rail pass! Moral of the story: make itinerary first, then book.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll definitely have an opinion on the Munich vs. Salzburg debate!

We love Salzburg. We always stay at the Auerhahn Gasthof just a short walk to the right as you leave the station. The food is fantastic and very authentic. They have an outside dining area which is perfect to relax and have great food, drink and dessert. Go to Hallstat, a day trip that is well worth it and Steve features it on this Austria show. Do not know if it is still operating, but Bob's Bavarian Mountain Tour is great. A shared van with different itineraries and you may be able to get up to Hitler's Eagle's Nest. Walk along the river from the station on the right bank a little shop that serves great strudel and cafe as you watch the river go by.

Take care,

John

FYI the Auerhahn has a website.

I think the revision will work. The backtracking to Salzburg isn't much and will give you more time to see both places.

I always disagree with Michael and you will have to form your own opinion on Amsterdam.

After seeing some of the world's great museums, I expected a lot from A'dam (the Dutch, at one time, competed for world supremacy) and was really disappointed. They were okay but far from what I had hoped for. Maybe if your expectations are low going in, you will really like A'dams museums. Having been to other cities with great museums first, however, I don't see how you could.

The seediness is a seperate issue. We're not prudes but when we went to places Rick describes as good family venues, we found ourselves trying not to step on used needles, while groups of druggies huddled around in random spots (and that was during the day).

I'm not a fan of A'dam and my wife likes it less than I do. I'm glad I went once but I won't go out of my way for another visit.