28 days, 3 countries, too much?

I’ll start at the end. Large vehicles are disfunctional in Europe. They’re hard to park ad to maneuver through the narrow streets you’ll often encounter. It may even be that 2 smaller vehicles will be cheaper to rent than 1 larger one.
Another advantage of having two cars is that people don’t have to always agree on destinations.
You are aware of the stiff fees for dropping a a car in a different country from where you got it, yes?

You need five nights for Vienna and I would add an extra night making it six and take a day trip to Bratislava and tour the old town (1h by direct train).
Since it costs more to pick up a car in one country and drop it off in a different one, you’re better off returning the vehicle in the same country you picked it up in. You won’t need a car in Vienna and can take a direct train from Vienna to Salzburg (3h) and sleep there for three nights. Rent a car / SUV on your second day in Salzburg and drive to Hallstatt for the day.
You can also take a direct train from Salzburg to Munich (2h) and rent a vehicle there.

It's hard to say if you are trying to do too much or not. Bavaria is a huge area. So are Scotland and England when it comes to moving from place to place. Are you looking at a single stay with day trips, or are you moving accommodations multiple times within these areas? Limiting to day trips, or only moving once within these areas would be fine. More than that will be tiring, and you spend more time getting from place to place than actually seeing the place.

When we start planning an itinerary, we start, like Rick, with a list of all the places we want to visit. Then we make another list with all the things we want to see and do in each place. Don't overload your days; this is a long distance race, not a sprint. Only then can we know how much time to allocate to each place. Then add in the travel time to realistically get from one place to the next, hotel to hotel. Now you'll know how many days you realistically need. Then add at least one day per week with absolutely nothing planned, to rest up, or as a contingency in case something goes awry that week. Lastly, start editing down the number of places until you get to the number of days you want to be away.

As noted, DO NOT rent a car in one country and drop off in a different one. The fees for that are eye popping. Use the trains when you can. And of course you would fly between the continent and the UK. If you are going to rent cars, don't forget that each driver needs an International Driver Permit.

I agree with the other comments.

Down at the itinerary level, the biggest difficulty I foresee is the 11 days for "Scotland/England". It all depends on what specific places you want to go, of course. That length of time would be OK for (just as one example) York, Edinburgh and a taste of rural Scotland. If you throw London into the mix, it gets tougher because of the amount of time most people like to spend in that great city. Eleven days is not enough for a good look at Scotland, much less for a good look at the larger country of England, so you really should have a good reason--and spend some time looking at maps and transportation schedules--before deciding to split that time between the two countries. I spent 26 days in Scotland a few years ago and had to make some hard choices. My travel mate, who joined me for just the last 19 days of that time, is still annoyed at how little time she had.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with covering three areas in 28 days. Your first two are reasonably close together; you can easily use trains to get between them. The UK is the outlier, but that's what planes are for. It all depends on how you define "Scotland/England". You definitely need to plan for a multi-city flight (into Austria or Germany, out of Scotland or England--or the reverse) rather than a round-trip flight.

Four weeks isn't too long. I'm over 70 and regularly travel for over 3 months at a time. You already realize that you can't travel at a 10-day-trip pace on a 4-week trip, so you should be fine as long as you don't try to cram too many towns and cities into each segment of the trip.

You can take the train from Vienna to Salzburg; a car is just an unnecessary expense in these cities. You can easily use buses to get from Salzburg to nearby mountain vistas and trails, salt mines, Berchtesgaden, and even Konigsee.

We really enjoyed the drive from Salzburg to Hallstatt, as well as through Bavaria. You can take a bus from Salzburg just across the border to Freilassing, Germany and get your rental car there-then you will avoid extra rental return charges if you plan to continue to Germany after Hallstatt. Our car had ample seating for four adults (VW Touran category) but the luggage area was very tight. As in each of us had a 21-22" suitcase and a small personal item and two small bags did not fit in the luggage area. The car was a great size, though...wish I had a video of dh maneuvering it into a certain underground parking garage:).

The short answer? No, doesn’t sound like too much. Have you ever taken a long vacation? What’s your travel style and your travel party’s style? You’ve got to ask yourself questions, mock up a rough itinerary see how that looks and what everyone thinks.

I’d just question need on the car public transport can be amazing and easy.

Having done a 3 week road trip with teens, and currently planning another 3 week trip for 6 (including my sister and brother in law), I’ll share my experience.

I think three areas in 28 days is fine. But you really need to focus on reducing your travel from place to place during that time. This will be most challenging in the Scotland/England leg. I would limit those 11 days to 2-3 locations (London, Edinburgh, somewhere in the highlands?)

Fly into one city (maybe Vienna?) and out of another (London/Edinburgh). Don’t waste time and $ backtracking.

As mentioned, don’t rent in one country and drop off in another. The price of minivan rentals is insane right now, so don’t be surprised. Limit the number of days you have the rental. Use trains as much as possible, and just rent when absolutely necessary. The ONLY way to get all of you in one vehicle is if everyone brings one carryon suitcase only, and maybe a day bag. I wouldn’t want to deal with two cars. Look at a minivan when you need a rental. Or if you don’t need it to transport luggage (just day trips), look at a small SUV or estate car.

Plan your lodging carefully. Apartments or multiple hotel rooms will be the only way to go. Decide if sofa beds are ok for your kids or sister. Many apartments consider a sofa bed in the living room a “bedroom” so if you want 3 actual bedrooms, you may need to search for 4 bedroom units. Very difficult to find.

Plan one “must see” per day. Don’t over fill your days or you’ll just be dragging grumpy people around. Talk about expectations in advance. Do you want to sleep in until 10, or do you want to be out the door by 8 am to beat the crowds? You’ll need to coordinate showers and be prepared for limited hot water! Some shower at night, some in the morning.

Plan for some down time. We do our “must see” in the morning, have a nice lunch (preferably someplace with a great view), return to the apartment for a break in afternoon (nap, laundry, teens check in with friends), then go back out in the evening. Remember dinner is later there, after 8pm some places.

Every time you move locations, you lose at least half a day. Limit your location changes. A travel day is the opposite of a rest day. Don’t count them in the same category, definitely leave “free days” about every 5 days. It also allows for some flexibility if weather doesn’t cooperate.

Your goal should be to create great memories and still get along after an extended period together! Don’t just tick off boxes of places to see. Be sure to include things of interest to the kids. My teens were done with churches and museums after the second of each. So we did sommerrodelbahns, a cave, a salt mine, paragliding, rowed a boat on lake Bled, visited WWII sites (oldest son’s interest). Each of them picked an item to collect (keychains, etc) from the various cities, so that was very fun for them to “hunt” for in various shops.

I am the kind of traveler that does 2 sights per day which leaves lots of time for wandering and discovering cool backdoor stuff. That said I would add several days to the Vienna/Salzburg/Hallstatt part. I have been to all of those and Vienna is amazing. You are SO close to Budapest and I have spent 7 days there before and plan to go back. I know this may be a one time trip for your whole family but if you plan to go back I would wait for the UK for a different trip. Scotland alone is worth 10 days and then the London and surrounding area (Bath Cotswolds etc) is worth another 10 days. If you do that I would think about Switzerland and or French Alps for this 30 day trip. Cars are a real pain imo. I did it once for a month and never again. I use the train for city to city (I know that can be expensive for 5 but I have done that with 6 and the piece of mind was worth it). The last day in each city I rent a car for one day and drive to the outlying fun and pretty places for each location. I turn it in and do the train to the next city. All your places are awesome so happy travels in what you decide to do. I just reopened my travel reply account after a few year vacation from replies so it will probably read a low number of messages...lol. A few years ago I was doing this a lot. Happy travels.

You’ve received some good advice. I’m currently in France, 7 weeks into a 10 week trip. This is my 12th trip to Europe in 16 years. This is our longest trip so far, and it is flying by. I wanted to mention our rental car experience at the beginning this trip because the first 5 weeks we were traveling with another couple. In Ireland and Scotland we had what would be considered a compact SUV at home, such as a Toyota RAV4. We each had a carryon sized suitcase and backpacks as personal bags and they took up every inch of cargo space. No way a 5th person’s luggage would fit. The same thing could happen with a minivan if the luggage space is small. Our friends, one of them traveling internationally for the first time, decided to go home 4 days early. I think the length of the trip was too much for him. I believe the length of your trip is fine, especially because you are allowing some down time. When people try to cram too much in it all becomes a blur.

I think the urge to add more time to places is natural, but you don’t have time to spend a week in Vienna just because you could fill it unless you are willing to sacrifice other places. For example, we went to Vienna as part of a 6.5 week trip. We spent 2 nights there because that’s all the time we could allow. Did we see everything? Of course not. Did we see some highlights? Yes. Some day we may be back.

Think about your priorities, the geographic logistics and how to make them work. Sometimes they don’t and then it’s time to trim the plan. That has happened to me on almost every trip. Public transportation is your friend. We only get cars when that part the trip can’t be done easily by train/bus, such as now while we are traveling around rural areas of France. The car is very helpful for this, but sometimes comes with frustrating challenges.

Best of luck with your plans and I hope you have the trip of a lifetime!

I suggest doing a detailed planning listing where you plan to stay, what you will do and how much time traveling between places.

You will find that you are probably not planning enough time for the travel part.
I think the first two parts of your trip will take a little longer than you have listed.

Also, why go to Britain, some distance away, almost guaranteeing you need to fly, which takes up a lot of time. Why not plan somewhere closer?

We did S. Wales and England (not even going to London) by rental car in four weeks in 2017. Here is my detailed review:
https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=599139

You can see a lot of Britain in 11 days, but not it all, so break it down. London 5 days, day trip to Bath and or Stonehenge. Day in Canterbury as well as Windsor Castle. 3 days in York and you haven't even been to Scotland.

My trip with our family of 5 was a month. No problem. We covered more area. And at the end of that my sister and I did another month. Don’t pay any attention to the advice that you need X amount of days. It’s only someone’s opinion. 5 days in Vienna ? Yes you could spend that long but I was fine with 2 days. Rothenburg ? At most 1 night - My shortest visit was 2 nights and then 3 nights a couple of times. I would like to stay longer.

I’d stick to one car. Take the train from Vienna to Salzburg, hop over the border and rent the car there so you won’t have the big drop off fee.

In Britain, rent the car after London. Assign one person to keep tellng the driver to KEEP LEFT.

Rent a car / SUV on your second day in Salzburg and drive to Hallstatt
for the day.

Or take the train to Hallstatt, by far the most scenic way to arrive in Hallstatt in my opinion.

The more research that you do on where you plan to visit, the more you will probably want to see.

Yes, Rothenberg ob der Tauber can be done well in one day. Still, I read plans of people that want to see Rome, Paris or London in two days, which means that they won't see a lot of great places or sites.

Other factors are how old are you. If you are in your 20s or 30s without kids (kids tend to slow you down) you can do more. If you are over 70, you need to pace yourself.

There was a movie, probably in the 70s called If it is Tuesday, this must be Belgium. It was about people going on a European tour that visited several countries in two weeks. Yes, you can do Tuesday in Belgium and Wednesday in Luxembourg and Thursday and Friday in France, but at least plan your tour so you KNOW what there is to see and don't miss something important, especially if you unlikely to go back to the place you are visiting.

Or take the train to Hallstatt

The train requires a transfer and takes 2h 15m. A car takes 1h 15m. If you drive get there as early as you can because that parking lot fills up.

-Bavaria/Rothenburg/Heidelberg (8 days)

About Bavaria: Rothenburg - along with hundreds and hundreds of other places - is actually part of Bavaria, not some separate entity. Bavaria covers a huge area, reaching almost to Frankfurt in the northwest.

I SUSPECT that you are using the word as many Americans tend to do - as a substitute for "the Bavarian Alps" or "German Alps" which also take up a lot of geography. If so, which specific places or areas do you hope to visit? It would be possible for you to remain in or near SALZBURG to visit parts of Alpine Germany such as Berchtesgaden and the Königssee. Others like Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Mittenwald might require a separate stay.

I assume you'd be flying from Germany to the UK. So... after the German Alps, then Rothenburg, you might want to use either nearby Nuremberg airport or perhaps Frankfurt airport for that trip.

Heidelberg: Getting there is a big time-consuming detour, and it's less impressive than the wonderful places that are near Rothenburg. Before committing to this detour, I would encourage you to check out these places, all in Bavaria, and all in Rothenburg's backyard:

Nuremberg
Bamberg
Würzburg
Iphofen
Bad Windsheim

When you leave Salzburg for Bavaria, this extreme-value day pass is a huge plus for a group of 4-5 people. It's valid throughout Bavaria for unlimited journeys on a single day (after 9 am on weekdays, anytime on weekends.)

http://munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

Traveling with 4 people is relatively easy. Add one or more people, and things get very difficult and much more expensive with larger rental cars and more expensive accommodations. You want to keep down the frustration factor as much as possible. Limit every person to handle a 21" carry on bag max--and each handles their own luggage.

We used to travel in rental cars as fast and far as we could go in 2 weeks and 3 weekends. $9 per U.S. gasoline in Italy cured us, and we're now more into traveling slower. The pace you're planning will possibly make the trip a big blur for the family.

We often use trains going from city to city. And we'll sometimes rent cars to go out into the countryside for a few days. I'm not above taking a budget European airline if the train trip is over 4 hours.

We prefer to take our trips in stages. And we like to go to cities that are relatively close to each other to avoid backtracking. Most great European cities are worthy of a minimum 4 day stay.

In 2 weeks, we prefer to visit 3 great cities like Vienna--Salzburg--Munich. Or Budapest--Vienna--Prague. Or Vienna--Prague--Dresden and Berlin. Or Rome--Florence--Venice. Traveling slower means we're seeing the sights better.

On our June, 2022 trip, we visited London for a long weekend, flew to Athens and took a one week cruise to three Greek islands, Montenegro and Croatia before landing in Ravenna, Italy. Then we took a train into Venice and flew back to London. It was a great trip for our granddaughter too. She told me today she wants to go back to Italy--for the food. Mixing in a cruise is good for families and priced right on a long trip.

You have many options you could take if you're wanting to travel southern Germany and Bavaria. Have you considered skipping the U.K. portion of your itinerary and visiting Munich and the Austrian Alps (Innsbruck) before dropping through the Brenner Pass on a fast train into Italy? Italy still seems to be every traveler's favorite place to go (as we've forgotten how many times we've been there.) Sounds as if you guys are going to have a great time.

You sound as though you are all relatively young, so will have more energy and will have the time to return to places. You don’t have to squeeze every last sight out of a destination to get a feel for it and to enjoy it. Yes, with more time you could add a few days here and there, but you need to be selective as you don’t have more time. You have obviously picked these three countries for a reason. Rest and travel days have been factored in, which is good. It’s not too long!

People have different travel styles and paces. I spent 7 weeks in France earlier in the year based around 4 bases. Last week in Belgium was 2 bases in a week. None of this used trains or buses - we drove. Adding a fifth person is going to be more challenging if renting a car size wise. A car is useful in Scotland. Trains are fine for travelling city to city but less useful if you want to visit rural areas.

Do dummy bookings for car hire. Larger cars come at a premium and can be harder to park. People carriers tend to have relatively little luggage space. Hire in individual countries if the one way drop fee is more than the costs of getting there by alternative means. You have no option but to fly to the U.K.

Thank you everyone for your insights! It has been very helpful. I think I may just fly into Munich, Train to Salzburg/Hallstatt, then rent a car in Germany. From there, rent a car back in Germany and do Fussen then take the Romantic Road to see Rothenburg/Nuremburg, then to Frankfurt.

From there we will take a plane from Frankfurt to Edinburgh and spend 5 days touring the top spots of Scotland using a combination of Train and rental car, then take a winding route down England to see Hadron's Wall, York, Cotswolds, Bath and Stonehenge.

I did forget to say that we took our kids to London and Paris (1 week each) so we have done a lot of London already and are using that as a base to see the stuff we didn't get to.

Any other suggestions would be highly welcome!