Looking for help with 25th Anniversary Trip to Europe Itinerary - 30 days in Europe

Are you talking about 2014 or 2015?

Are you arriving from North America or somewhere else? Your profile gives no hints.

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Have you been to Europe before?

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Have you actually bought your tickets, because if you haven't it is likely you'd save money and time and energy by flying into one city and out of the furthest away (Rome?) rather than having to retrace your steps.

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Since you say you will drive by, will you actually be driving all this way, or will you be using trains?

Lo & Nigel,
Thanks for your replies and questions. The trip will be occuring the spring of 2015 and will be our first trip to Europe. We are traveling from Los Angeles California, and plan on utilizing the Eurorail global pass as primary means of transportation, possibly renting a car while in the Rhine River Valley. Just really struggling to determine best order of stops, and if we have selected the right stops. Phrase drive-by was intended to indicate our nature to not want to stand in long lines or spend countless hours looking at the insides of museums/churches, while I am sure there are some such as the Louve and Westminster Abby, and The Sistine Chapel that we wont be able to pass up the oppertunity to see the interior and art work as well.

Steven, congratulations! It sounds as though you are on the right track

I do some logistical suggestions, and one other idea you should consider. For the former, at the very least fly home from Amsterdam. It will be easier and probably, when all is said and done, cheaper. And shouldn't Munich come after Salzberg?

The other thing has to do with the length of your trip. Rick's eat-all-you-can style is very appealing, but not as a steady diet for 29 days. It is worth thinking about varying the pace.

Especially as newbies, you will not move as nimbly as you expect. With 9 changes of venue in 29 days, you will be spending a lot of your vacation in transit, with less than 3 days on average to see each of these great destinations. (I'm counting "Vienna/Salzburg" as "Vienna and Salzburg.") Even if you can do it, it probably won't be the best trip you could have in 29 days.

London, Paris, and Rome deserve at least 4 full nights (really 5). Amsterdam 3. That leaves you at most 2 weeks for everything else.

Except for cities, Switzerland will not be much fun in the spring. Maybe swap the Cinque Terre for the Alps. What would really be great would be if you could break the fast pace with a 5-7 day stint someplace interesting, maybe a town in Tuscany where you rent a car and explore.

In any case, you next step ought to be a rough cut at a daily itinerary. Once you've done that look at it and ask, Is this really enough time here? Can we keep this up for a month? When will we recharge? What if it rains?

Hello Steven. You will be at Europe, 29 days in April and May (2015). I think that is wonderful. But I think the ten places are too many places to go to in 29 days. You will have a travel day between two places. I recommend that you delete some of the destinations. Starting from Los Angeles, I think it would be best to fly to Munich. And fly from London to Los Angeles. You could fly from Munich to Los Angeles, but that would require an early morning departure from the Munich airport, and I guess you would connect to a second flight, and arrive at Los Angeles airport at a very late time that night. I recommend this travel plan : Fly to Munich, and trains to Salzburg, Venice, Florence, Rome, fly from Rome to Paris, train from Paris to Amsterdam, fly from Amsterdam to London, fly from London to Los Angeles. I do not know how you will see "real life and countryside" if you do not rent a car in ITALY. I would go to Florence, and rent a car there to see rural Tuscany. (Edit) Plan to be at Paris a minimum of four nights. Two nights at Amsterdam would be sufficient time there for me. And three nights at Rome might be sufficient time there. I found good airline flights schedules for you. AIR CANADA : Depart from LAX airport at 10:40 a.m. Arrive at MUC airport (Munich) at 9:55 a.m. the next day. (transfer at YUL airport). Depart from LHR airport (London) at 10:05 a.m. Arrive at LAX airport at 6:15 p.m. that day. (transfer at YVR airport).

Be prepared to hear the following from many respondents:

• Too many places, too little time.
• Fly "open jaw" (multi-city) to save time and money. For example, into London, home from Rome.
• Compare actual costs of the Global Pass vs. point-to-point train tickets or possibly flying. The transportation section under Tips & Trip Reports can help with that.
• Spend more time researching what you want to see and do in the cities you list. You might find lesser or greater interest in them as you do that.
• Think about whether the going is as important as being there. Riverboat on the Rhine? Train through the Dolomites from Munich to Venice?
• Everybody's trip is different. Our first together was 2 months. We flew into Keflavik and home from Dublin. We went all the way down to Sicily and back up through Spain and France to GB (England, Scotland, Northern Ireland) and then to Dublin. A big part of the experience was using a variety of modes of transportation and seeing scenery along the way.
• Last year we celebrated our 25th with a month in the Netherlands and Belgium. We loved our 2-month version of a grand tour, but we travel very differently now.

Hi Steven,
As newbies ourselves and pretty much similar to your likes of the countrysides, etc., have you looked into taking a cruise on the Mediterrean?
We are doing that this coming late summer, but prior to it, we are flying into London, staying there for a few days and then taking a train to Paris and Spain and getting on the ship. After the ship, we're going to check out parts of northern Italy and Switzerland before going on a RS' tour.
It's a lot but we have the time and monies now.

Laurie

Congratulations on your anniversary! Your Grand Tour of Europe sounds like it will be a great celebration!

I agree that April/May probably won't be the best time to visit Switzerland (assuming that you wanted to visit the Alps). So with that in mind, I took the liberty of omitting Switzerland from this proposed itinerary (plus I couldn't fit it in!).

This is just one of many possibilities, but hopefully it will give you a place to start and you can tweak and re-work it to come up with your dream trip! Working in a few days in Tuscany might be nice too, since right now there are a lot of bigger cities.

D1 Leave LA arrive London

D2 London

D3 London

D4 London

D5 4.5 hour train to Amsterdam

D6 Amsterdam

D7 Amsterdam

D8 3.5 hour train to Paris

D9 Paris

D10 Paris

D11 Paris

D12 Train 4-4.5 hours Rhine Valley

D13 Rhine Valley

D14 Rhine Valley

D15 4.5 hour train to Munich

D16 Munich

D17 Munich

D18 4 hour train to Vienna

D19 Vienna

D20 Vienna

D21 2.5 hours to Salzburg

D22 Salzburg

D23 7-8 hour train to Venice

D24 Venice

D25 Venice

D26 3.5 hour train to Rome

D27 Rome

D28 Rome

D29 Rome

D30 Fly home

Hi,

You're sure you are not going to Berlin, esp coming from LAX? On Air Berlin is a direct flight from LAX to Berlin....the only such connection from the west coast. From Berlin you can procede to Munich or Vienna, going westwards finally flying out of London.

Steven.Sobczak,

welcome.

I hope you TRY to actually spend MORE time INSIDE the places you intend on seeing from the outside. To me just to do a "drive by" is a waste of time and $$$ and you may was well just look for online pics, stay home, save your $$$ and sit back and relax while you look at the pics online.

its not just standing in line, but the ambiance, smells, sounds, atmosphere and feel of the places that make it what it is. They are "one of a kind" you wont find anywhere else in the world, so make the most of it.

Where you go and how you want to do it, is half the fun of planning, in my opinion. Youre off to a good start by reading some travel books. It will be daunting/overwhelming too, but just start working on it and look at some starting/ending points and go from there.

happy trails.

Thanks again to all that have posted, you have given us some great things to think about. Understandably most think this is to ambitious and honestly we have had that thought as well, and considered splitting it into two trips, but maybe it's the romantic in me struggling with changing plans for our 25th. While still considering that as a possibility, it seems that your suggestions of open- jawed flight and somewhat a zig-zag from north to south or vise versa make more sense than my original big circle theory. Also really appreciate comments on Switzerland, I was really struggling on where to go there and it was more about seeing the Alps. A couple of you recommend longer stays in some locations and use them as hubs if you will, that was kinda my theory with Munich as a hub for day trips to the Romantic Road, Fusen, as well as, Vienna and Salzburg (obviously more than just a day trip), before heading either South to Italy or North towards Rhine. I am now also wondering if that may be the way to go from Paris, with day trips to Amsterdam, The Rhine Valley etc. which would make the trip main stops London, Paris (hub), Munich (hub), Venice and Rome. As for means of travel in Europe, lots of good suggestions to again consider, here are my questions though, is flying between sights cheaper than the train, and even if so is it worth missing just the sights in- route? Also, I was thinking about traveling by auto gives so much mor flexibility, but again concerned with if I'm driving I'm watching the road not sightseeing ( despite what my wife would tell you). Again I look forward to learning from your knowledge and experience, thanks for your continuing feedback.

Steven,

• Re too ambitious: Write it all down and think it over. And remember, brutal honesty today means a better trip tomorrow.
• Re hubs: You need to reality check by learning how far and how long. Paris-Amsterdam, Paris-Rhine, Munich-Rothenberg—really too far for day trips.
• Re flights: You have to cost this out, but remember flying entails transportation to and from airports from and to city centers, plus airport security. Flights take a good 6+ hours. . Learn about travel times by checking the German rail site and incorporate that information into your planning as early as possible. I don't mean that logistics should define your trip, but they should inform it.

Steven, Riding in railroad trains from Salzburg to Venice (via Innsbruck in Austria, and Verona in Italy) would be a scenic route. Then ride in trains from Venice to Florence (rent a car at Florence, return the car at Florence), and ride in a train from Florence to Rome. (The Florence to Rome trip can be one hour and thirty five minutes in an Italian Eurostar express train). Fly from Rome to Paris. And train from Paris to Amsterdam. Fly from Amsterdam to London.

Basic tools:
www.seat61.com for railway information and strategies.
www.skyscanner.com for budget airlines.
Very common advice about rail passes is that they are the last choice, not the first. It will require some research, but you start by searching out the prices of cost-to-cost tickets. Only then can you make the comparison. Passes also have the hassle of requiring separate purchase of seat reservations on some runs. Real money, both on trains and airplanes, can often be saved through buying well in advance.
Whatever the complications, don't get stressed. Doing the research sets you up to understand and enjoy the travels. Your mind is already on vacation.

Hi, I want to send my parents to Europe for their 25th anniversary in April, 2017. I'm 19, now - in college - but I would like to work with my brother (17, now), to earn enough money to make this happen in the next 3 years or so. What's the best way to go about figuring this out? Where should I start? Any advice would really help. Thanks!

I normally don't weigh in on itinerary questions because your plans are your own.

If I did, I'd advise against Grand Tour types of trips because too much time is spent moving and not enough enjoying. We spent 30 days in Spain alone and didn't feel like we had nearly enough time to see everything. I can see why you want that type of trip, so the best advice I can give is plan for your travel days.

It takes time to get places, so plan for travel times between destinations. I personally prefer only four hours of moving (car, bus, train, plane) on a travel day because a lot of time is taken getting up and packed, checking out of your hotel, getting to the train station, getting meals, getting to your next hotel, checking in, getting settled, etc.

Remember one night doesn't equal one day in a location. If you travel, spend the night, then travel the next day, you leave almost no time to see a destination. Two nights equals one full day, sandwiched by two travel days, Three nights equals two days, etc.

I would, in your case, start south (Rome) and work your way north (London). That will give you the best chance to enjoy good weather during your trip. Rome in April should be fine, London in April will likely be rainy and dreary. Conversely, London in May is much better, dryer and longer days while May in Rome can be too hot.

I would certainly look at open jaw - fly to London and back from Rome. Only you can decide which cities to visit and how long. I don't find it too hectic. I did one similar and did not feel rushed. Mind you now I spend much longer in a small area, but I've been several times.

If you think Switzerland might not have good weather (I've had two weeks of rotten weather there in July), then I think the idea of substituting the alps between Salzburg and Venice by train is a good one.

Except for the Rhine, you really don't stay any place that is 'country side'.

David beat me to it. If you really want to get a "tasting platter" of many European destinations in a short time, take a tour. They have worked out all the logistics, and you simply cannot duplicate the pace of a tour on your own. If you try, you will quickly get exhausted from all the moving around. I just went to Sicily for 10 days, changing hotels every 2-3 days and driving almost every day to see other places on the island. It quickly became tiring, and that was just staying in a small part of one country, for a far shorter time than you are proposing.

I'm a retired Airline Employee, who, despite the ability to get heavily discounted airfares, just couldn't go to Europe till that last kid was safely placed in a college dorm! My First Trip to Europe I was so excited, I tried to see EVERYTHING! I did see a Lot, but it was mostly through a window on a bus or train! Never Again! Now I "slow travel" and get myself immersed in a place for at least four days before moving on to the next.

You've had SO much advice! Here's MINE! START SOUTH! Obviously, Rome will be much more pleasant weather wise than Switzerland in April!

If $$ is an issue at all, go ahead and do it ALL in one trip! Just get a map out, and plan South to North. Previous poster who suggested flying home out of Amsterdam was 'spot on!' If you're saving the $$ from two transatlantic flights, why not upgrade to Business Class?! Your trip will start and end so much more rested!

Spend a MINIMUM of four nights in each city. Even five. DON'T do a cruise! You won't really get to enjoy a place, but you'll get to know your cruise mates really well!

Choose four cities! Start in Rome, spend five nights, and then head North to your next three cities.