2+ weeks in Europe with kids - itinerary help needed

Late July/early August - please avoid Italy. It will be hot and very crowded.

Switzerland is a must. I would easily give 5 days at least. While in Switzerland choose lauterbrunnen or Murren as your base. Plan for easy hikes like northern face trail, mannlichen to Klein schidegg.

If you have already seen London then what's the point of going there? Europe has many places to choose from.

If possible try adding Norway. It's just too beautiful.

Don't try to add too many places. 3 would be ideal, 4 will be just ok.

Switzerland is too expensive, Austria is too adult, Italy is too hot in the summer. I would concentrate on Germany. Castles, medieval and WWII History, good hiking, good food. The north is cooler, warmer as you go south. Easy to drive, except maybe in the larger cities, but many smaller cities/towns to explore. Plenty do see and do once you start researching.

Depending on where you live, Italy may be no warmer than staying at home. It will be summer time hot, but is relatively compact for a 2 week stay to allow you to pick 3-4 places to stay.

If upper 80s+ will make you wilt, then a northern destination is better

Excellent idea to plan an open jaw routing

I agree with Germany and would add Austria. They are both easy countries in which to drive, trains are fantastic, outside activities are limitless, heat is not overwhelming and less crowded than some other European countries. Maybe fly into Munich and pick up a car and head to Bavaria for 4-5 day, drive to Salzburg for 4-5 days and drive back to Munich...drop off your car and enjoy the city of Munich with some days trip if you like.

Since you want to start with London, I would have suggested France for the rest of your trip.

But since that wasn't on your list, then I agree that southern Germany and Austria would be good. Not too hot. Lots of large and small cities and towns. Gorgeous countryside. Easy driving (outside the cities). And excellent train connections between cities, too.

You could even fly into Frankfurt, then rent a car for most of your trip. Maybe head to Rothenberg odt, Nuremberg, then skirt around Munich and base out of Garmisch-Partenkirchen for a couple of days (go up the Zugspitz, day trip to the castles near Fussen, check out Ettal, Oberammergau, or Mittenwald). Then go to Munich and drop off the car. You could see Salzburg as a day trip from Munich, or take the train there for a few days (with perhaps a day trip to Berchtesgaden). Fly home from Munich.

Thank you all for the feedback - I appreciate it! You all have me thinking, so I will sit down and work out some options. We were thinking of flying into London because we can get there direct, but once we factor in getting from London to our next destination it's likely a wash on cost. We're flying from Austin and direct flights out of this city are like unicorns! We can however, take a short flight to Houston or Dallas and have many options for direct flights. Now looking at flying into Germany.

Someone mentioned France. We have spent some time in France already, and though we'd love to see it through our children's eyes some day, it's not a priority this trip.

As for the heat in Italy, we're used to heat! It would be nice to travel somewhere cooler than home, though. We are still waffling and considering some time in Venice, and possibly Rome. We can't see it all on this trip, but it kind of stings to be that close and not get there. I think Italy may be moving way down on the priority list for this trip, though...

Thoughts on flying in to Frankfurt and out of Rome?? Or into Frankfurt and doing Germany, Austria, Switzerland, flying out of either Munich or somewhere in Switzerland?

I have a lot of homework still to do, clearly. I'm very thankful for any feedback from those of you with experience in these regions!

My suggestion with that age group. Don't do too sophisticated (Venice), Rome is hot (make sure to have AC if you do that). Germany and Austria would have been big hits with my boys at that age. The smaller villages are really enjoyable and just relax and slow down. Seeing your kids run around the Austrian hills laughing and hiking will make up for not seeing a whole bunch of Europe on this trip. Good luck with planning.

I think Germany is a great option. We took our then 11 year old to the Rhine and he loved visiting Rheinfells - crawling through the tunnels underneath with his dad! You could do some biking on the Rhine or Mosel also. I would recommend Rothenburg, the Rhein, and Tirol which has great castle ruins for exploring and summer luge rides.

As for the heat in Italy, we're used to heat!

But are you really? Are you outside all day in Texas walking around for most of the day in the sun? I suspect that you're actually spending most of your time moving between air conditioned place after air conditioned place and driving around in an air conditioned car.

The summer heat in Rome can be really oppressive and there is little respite from it at most of the sites. It really is draining to be touring cities on foot in the height of summer especially more so with children.

Even Germany and Austria aren't immune from the heat. I was in Munich in June two years ago and there was a widespread heatwave with temperatures reaching the upper 30's. As AC is not common in the area the apartment we were staying in was almost unbearable at night and there was little respite from it apart from evenings drinking copious amounts of beer in the beer gardens and days spent swimming in the lakes.

For me, taking kids on holiday in the summer months means water, whether that's a beach, lake, pool or waterpark. I understand that this doesn't fit in well with sightseeing and seeing as much as you can however it could also mean the difference between an enjoyable, memorable holiday or a miserable one.

Give serious attention to JC's comments.

One possibility in Italy that nearly always has cooler weather would be the Dolomites. If you stay up in the mountains in a place like Ortisei, the temperature is likely to be pleasant. And there are lovely mountain walks.

My guess is that if you are like most people in central Texas (I used to live in what we called North Central Texas - the Metroplex) you will either take the kids to San Marcos or Colorado to cool off at some time in the year?

If so, and you and they enjoy that sort of stuff, (great internet name, by the way, tells your whole story in 10 characters - are you M or M?) I'd agree about southern Germany. There are lakes galore, plenty of water sport, great Thermae (some people call them spas but the German word is Therme and somewhere like Erding http://www.therme-erding.de/en/ is absolutely great for water loving kids and adults. Baden Baden is not the only spa in Germany, nor is Rothenburg ob der Tauber the only medieval town. Natural spring water - heated - with great water toys and slides and chutes a decent substitute for San Marcos? Erding is a short distance northeast of Munich easy by either car or train.

As far as Colorado, the Alps in the south of Bavaria and adjoining Austria are comparable to Swiss ones with beautiful villages and towns too, and I think more attractive than Colorado Rockies (you get much closer to the summits and transportation is great).

All over the mountains you'll find sommerrodelbahn - fast summer luge tracks, huge fun.

Castles all over Germany, and some good'ns along the middle Rhine including a castle-hostel overlooking the Rhine.

JC is right about the Rome heat. Even with AC rooms are hot and no AC when you are outside..... eeeeeeeeee you have to experience it to understand it.

In July and August I would not bother with Italy except perhaps in the Alps. There is a huge difference between northern and southern Europe in these months. It can be miserably hot in the north on occasion too - but the odds of more comfortable weather are much greater there than in the south, where misery is nearly guaranteed from day to day... And on the whole, tourist crowds in Rome and other popular Italian destinations tend to be far worse as well.

I think Switzerland is fantastic - especially the Bernese Oberland - and worth a couple of days at least. From the Lake Constance area or the Black Forest, it will cost you very little time to make a short foray there if you wish. And who knows, you might find a decent fare flying home out of Zurich - I have, on separate occasions.

"...know our boys would love to take trains when possible."

Germany and Switzerland are tops for train travel; frequency, dependability, and comfort are standard. Families will find that Germany is especially easy on the budget as kids travel for free w/ parents, and regional day passes not only cover a lot of ground, but are quite cheap (around €30/day for a family like yours.) Some localities even court visitors with free guest cards for FREE train (and bus) travel:

Black Forest KONUS card

Cochem Guest-ticket

These German Alps towns offer free area bus travel:

Garmisch-Partenkirchen (Alps) Visitors Card

Berchtesgaden (Alps) Visitors Card

" We are - like most families - budget-minded... I'm looking for recommendations on itineraries and routes that will allow us to experience some variety in landscape, activities, and food."

Jill has recommended the Rhine, a destination that's very near Frankfurt Airport and one that I second - but I would add the adjacent Mosel River region as well. LOTS of variety here! Roman history, WW II history, medieval history, outdoor fun (hiking, biking, river cruising,) small old-world villages as well as some very nice cities.

Braubach
Marksburg Castle
Bernkastel
Burg Eltz Castle
Cochem
Mosel River biking
Mosel highlights
Rhine Castle Trail
Remagen WW II museum
Cruise boat in St. Goar
Summer bobsled, St. Goarshausen
Rhine/Mosel cities

A note that Icelandair is adding Dallas (and Cleveland) next year, if that works for you. Flying into Glasgow return from Paris or Amsterdam is a nice 2 week overland trip and not too hot. Note that the codeshare airline from Austin is Alaska Airlines via Seattle so 21 hour journeys, but RT for $1075. Or drive to DFW and get RTs for $880.

Italy: This is a hard one. People say it's humid, and it certainly can be, but normally it is not as humid as the worst the eastern half of the US serves up from time to time, except Venice. Sun: stronger in Texas than Italy, by a long shot. But generally yes it will be a slog walking around.

Switzerland always puzzles me as a destination for North Americans. Why go?

Don't forget Condor has a direct flight from Austin to Frankfurt as well. This should be substantially less expensive than flying the Austin to London route as Heathrow has about $500 per ticket in fees that you can't avoid.

This way you could easily do Germany and northern Italy in two weeks.

DJ

Edit: I'll also add, as I am from Texas as well, don't worry about the heat in Italy. You'll feel right at home even if you were walking around outside all day or have to deal with unair-conditioned rooms at night.

Would love to hear feedback on Condor and Icelandair. Quick searches for traveler reviews have resulted in a lot of negative feedback. I need to do some more research.

And thanks for the continued feedback - it's all helpful! We'll be spending some more time with the guidebooks and maps, and I'll likely be back with some requests for final itinerary tweaks.

We have used Iceland air from Denver. It was fine. The transfer in Rejkavik can be busy. But if you are going to mainland Europe you go through passport control there and its very easy as it is a small airport compared to many of the big city airports in Europe.

We have been in Europe with kids and they loved everywhere. France for Paris and Normandy, castles in Germany, My son who was 14 loved the canals and biking around Amsterdam. Just mix up some active things with museums. The other recommendation is to get the kids involved in planning. If it is something they choose and are invested in everyone has more fun.

Icelandair and Condor:

Both fly wide bodies like 767s (but some US markets are 757 with Icelandair like DFW)

Both $$ for alcohol.

Food for purchase only on Icelandair but children like the ages you mention get a free meal, basic food 1 hot/1 cold meal free on Condor, it's nothing to savor BTW

In seat entertainment: unlimited free but slightly older films on Icelandair, 1 film and 1 TV show Condor for free

Legroom same as domestic US flight, actually the whole experience on either airline is similar to domestic airline.

Plus: Icelandair offers the fastest service from much of the US to Scotland and Scandinavia.

I would fly either again, I have a concern at Frankfurt with Condor/Lufthansa transfers, leave time for this.

You don't have to listen to us forum members rattling on about the weather - just listen to Rick Steves...

The most grueling thing about travel over here is the heat and crowds
of summer — especially in Italy.... I prefer visiting the
Mediterranean countries in spring or fall and I travel north of the
Alps in summer.

(From Rick's European Travel Skills Part 2 TV show script)

We've really enjoyed Florence and Rome in January. Not so much luck the following July in Vicenza... It's good to learn from the mistakes of others... right? Details are fuzzy now but we laughed for months on end at our stupidity. DW, daughter, sis-in-law, and me... all 4 of us lying belly-up and dripping in sweat on top of bare sheets in the skimpiest underwear we could find as we attempted to catch a few winks in our large family-sized room with no a/c in the deadest, hottest, dampest air I have ever experienced. A/C would have helped of course but then there are the long daylight hours of summer... We had arrived in the afternoon, which was spent outdoors but was only marginally less sweltering; walking around town under the street arcades drummed up the most minor of minor breezes. Too bad we couldn't have slipped into that skimpy underwear! (Much, much more enjoyable was our stay in the Dolomites on that same trip - the Alps might be the only Italian destination I'd ever consider in summer.)

You could get some additional variety into a Germany/Switzerland trip easily enough if you wish.

The Rhine/Mosel, the Black Forest, and Switzerland line up fairly neatly on a north-south itinerary. But north of the Rhine/Mosel are two additional German cities (COLOGNE, and AACHEN) worth considering, as well as the outstanding Dutch city of MAASTRICHT.

I definitely agree with Germany and Switzerland! We did Rick’s tour of those with Austria as well in late May/early June and it was incredible! My daughter was 12 when we traveled. I’d let her connect with you if you want a tween’s perspective. She particularly loved Murren (which is officially now my favorite place on earth) and most of Germany. Munich wasn’t her fave. She’s a major WWII history buff and even tho there’s a ton of history there, based on what we saw she didn’t care for it (which was so shocking; but I think it had more to do with it being a big city and she much preferred the smaller towns and villages). Before our tour began we did four days in Bacharach along the Rhine and it was very nice. Lots to see and do in that area and all the villages close by are so charming. Burg Eltz is kinda close by, we traveled from Trier to see it and it was nice.
Neuschwanstein, while a bit over the top, was so cool to see in person. We also did bobsledding, which was fun.
I agree with a couple other posters above in that Austria was, from my perspective, a little more “adult”. I’d highly recommend Hallstatt though if you’re going to go. We rented bikes for a full afternoon in Salzburg and that was a great way to see the surrounding area! We also stopped at Mauthausen, depending on your family’s interest that’s an option. I can’t adequately describe what we felt being there...

So many have mentioned the heat. Germany and Austria were HOT while we were there...and we live in Atlanta (and spend quite a bit of time in Orlando) so we know about hot. Many smaller hotels do not have A/C and some don’t have fans available. Our three nights in Trier were almost miserable because of the heat. No air and no fan in our room so we didn’t sleep too well. Thank goodness for our trips on the bus with air and the ability to get in a quick nap!

We also LOVED Italy! Can’t wait to go back. Pompeii is great for kids....but hot! Amalfi Coast was breathtaking. Rome is beautiful....so much history and so much to see and do. My daughter loved Rome and Vatican City.

With kids....I’d say don’t try to cram in so much. My tendency is to come up with as much to do as possible, thinking it may be our only visit to this part of the world....but then I always scale back. They need time to be kids. Find a playground and “waste” a couple hours there. Same for a lake or seashore. That will make them more happy than you know. We found a small playground in Lauterbrunnen amd another in Gimmelwald and our daughter....who was only 60 days away from turning 13....thoroughly enjoyed her time there. It was her vacation too herefore it was time well spent!
Good luck planning and have the time of your life!

At that age or kids loved England (mostly London), Scotland, and Austria. I think that London, plus Austria (mostly Salzburg and Innsbruck) and the Bavarian area of Germany would be a great combination, if you don't mind having 2 or 3 bases.

It you want to keep movement to a minimum, than I'd focus on Germany and Austria. I'd focus on Salzburg and Inverness- our kids love both of those. You can even do Inverness as a day trip by train from Salzburg. You can also get a 'packaged' day trip that covers the Sound of Music, or the Salt Mine and there one that goes up to Hitler's Eagles' Nest, as well as others. Then you could train to Munich and see other sites- possibly tour a concentration camp if you think the boys can handle that.

OR stay in the UK. You could spend a week in London- do 3 or 4 day trips by train. Windsor, Bath, Cardiff Wales, Winchester, Canterbury, Dover and many others are possible. Then take the train north- spend one or two days in York, then on to Edinburgh or even up to Aviemore or Inverness in the Highlands for a bit more rural outlook. Plenty of day trips in that area too. Inverness has one of the best Tourist Offices I've ever seen. Lots of good companies (many of whom do small 10-15 person groups) do great day trips out of Inverness. Lots of cruises on Loch Ness and out into the forth for dolphin/whale and bird watching. Lots of good castles, too.

I believe Toni is referring to Innsbruck, Austria, not Inverness, Scotland. It's 1 hr. 48 min. from Salzburg by train or a bit over 2 hours by car (per ViaMichelin, generally considered a bit optimistic).

This forum is great - thank you, thank you for all of your input! I edited my original post to add the following... as always, taking advice and feedback!

EDITED: Thanks to excellent feedback in this forum, we're trying to scale way back. It's hard - I'm an over-planner. We're now looking at flying in to Frankfurt and out of Munich, or some version of that. Have looked at Zurich for flight options as well. We're flexible and will spend some time researching our options.

Depending on flights, we are thinking some combo of the Rhine, maybe a pop over to Strasbourg (MAYBE - we have family ties to that area, but may save it for another trip), Switzerland, and Bavaria. Perhaps a loop from Frankfurt to Switzerland to Munich? There's too much to do and see - we won't scratch the surface, and that's okay!

"...maybe a pop over to Strasbourg (MAYBE - we have family ties to that area, but may save it for another trip...)"

Yes, by all means, spend a day seeing your heritage. You will probably never be closer than on this particular trip! That is a very easy day trip to make from a Black Forest base town like Gengenbach or Gutach, both of which offer the KONUS card. This card covers trains to the border town of Kehl (and back) for free; you'd need only a ticket for the 10-minute trip from Kehl to Strasbourg (and back.)

We have had excellent experiences on Condor and Icelandair. Yes, you will pay for everything but you may find you can upgrade to premium seating and still pay less than on AA, UA, Etc.

I have two boys nearly the same age as yours. We've been backwards and forwards around Europe.

Here's what I would suggest - come to Austria. Not just because we live here, but because it is a great place for kids and families.

Fly into Munich, take the train to Salzburg. In Salzburg, visit Hellbrunn, the fortress and make a day trip to Berchtesgaden. Rent a car and travel for a few days to the Salzkammergut. Stay in St. Gligen. Do summer tobaggan runs, salt mines, rent a boat in Hallstatt. Drive down to Graz, which will take you across the Alps. Base yourself in Loipersdorf, where there is a great waterpark/swimming complex. A visit to the Zotter Chocolate Factory is an absolute must as is Riegersburg Fortress. Ditch the car in Graz and take the train to Vienna. Vienna in the summer for kids is spectacular. Schonbrunn, the Alte Donau, kid-friendly museums, etc.

A trip like this would really give you a chance to fully experience a country, enjoy each other's company and create memories rather than just check things off a list.

concern at Frankfurt with Condor/Lufthansa transfers, leave time for this.

On our recent Oktoberfest trip we had about 8 people in our group take the Austin to Frankfurt flight. The flight was delayed leaving Austin making everyone miss their connections to Munich but as long as you book all on one ticket through Condor they will automatically rebook you on the next available flight. Everyone still made it to Munich the same day just a few hours late. Condor is definitely a no-frills, every-thing-is-extra airline but they are reliable and if you don't want the extras you don't pay for them.

Ideally you could fly into Frankfurt and return from any number of cities in Bavaria, Austria or northern Italy for less than 1000 per person if you get the right days and lowest fare.

DJ

Hello MandMinATX. 15 days at Europe in the Summer, with two boys. You said you desire to go to Germany. I recommend : go to GERMANY and AUSTRIA. You said you are budget minded. Therefore I think you do not want to be at Switzerland. If you will be at Europe a total of 15 days, I suggest going to two countries. Fly from Texas to Frankfurt. Fly from Munich to Texas.
My most enjoyable trip to Europe was my trip to Germany and Austria. Travel in trains in Germany and Austria. A rental car is not needed in Germany or Austria.
In Germany : Hotel at Bacharach. One day, ride on a K-D ship on the Rhine River from Bacharach to St. Goar. Another day, go to the castle Marksburg. Beautiful view of trees on hills, and grape vines, from a castle window.

Train from Bacharach to Fussen (via Mainz). It is a long but scenic train ride, you would see farm land in southern Germany. Two nights at a hotel in Fussen. In one day, walk through Neuschwanstein, and ride in a cable car up Tegelburg mountain.
Trains from Fussen to Salzburg (change trains at Munich).
If you will be at Salzburg three nights, one day each of you could rent a bicycle, ride on bicycles along the river.
Train to Munich. From Munich you may want to go to go to a place where you can be in water.
In Germany, travelling in trains is convenient.