2 Weeks: Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria (?)

I think you're correct to be nervous about hitting too many places, but it's hard to say which spots should be dropped without knowing more about your goals for this trip. Since there aren't a lot of large cities, I'm guessing you are more interested in quiet getaways and scenic spots than museums and culture. But looking at a map (and especially if you decide Frankfurt is your optimal gateway city), I think you should cut out the Italian portion of your trip and concentrate on Germany, Switzerland, and Austria.

However, do consider flying open jaw (into one city and out from another) if you can do that and stay within your budget. The only issue to consider then is that you don't want to drop off your rental car in a different country from where you pick it up, or you will incur a significant extra cost.

I'd also consider relying less on a car and more on trains. If you want to make a day trip, you could rent a car for a day, but the hassle of driving and parking and worrying about damage and theft and traffic adds a level of stress you don't need on this itinerary, which is mostly very manageable by train.

Sorry for no straightforward answer to your question, but maybe if you could explain a little about why you've selected the destinations you're considering, and if any of them are "must-sees" for you, it would be easier to suggest an alternate itinerary that would make you and your boyfriend happy.

Ironically, Lake Como is probably the one destination we're looking forward to most. We'd like for the trip to be a mix of relaxing and exploring/adventure. I'd love to do some hiking (nothing too strenuous - I really go for the views :) and eat lots of good food, and my boyfriend is really interested in WWII history and castles. We both like spending time on the water and have always wanted to go to Italy, which is why I thought Lake Como would be a good option for the relaxing part of the trip.

Since this will be his first time to Europe, I was trying to get in a taste of several different countries. Hopefully that's not too general of a description for our goals. I keep getting overwhelmed by all of the options.

I should also mention that we will be 25 when we take the trip - not sure if that will influence any recommendations!

You could spend the rest of your life in Europe and not see everything. I try to focus on having as much fun as I can each day, not on all the places I am not going!

I second the suggestion that you consider flying into and out of different cities (choose "multi-city" rather than "round-trip" when you're exploring airfares). A number of people have found good deals on flights to Milan, which is very near Lake Como, so you might consider that. Switzerland is very expensive for both hotels and restaurants, so I'd try to avoid costly semi-dead time in that country. Your first day can have you in zombieland from jet-lag, and spending the last night in Switzerland to fly out of Zurich would be pricey while you might not be able to spend much time sightseeing that day if you're coming in from elsewhere just to get the flight.

I'd want to move around a bit less than you're planning, but that's just my style, and you're visiting mostly small places that don't require 3-night stays. One thing I'm wondering about is Lucerne (a lake-front city) and Lake Como back-to-back. I think I'd consider the Lauterbrunnen area instead of Lucerne. Just about everyone seems to love Mürren.

Edited to add: In Lauterbrunnen you're near a couple of lakes, should you encounter weather not ideal for walks way up in the mountains. I remember enjoying the town of Thun many years ago.

In that case, I would look into moving things around so that Como is at the end of your trip, and then fly home from Milan.

Maybe fly into Munich, head to Salzburg, and then make your way east to west to Lucerne, then south to Como.

|f you are looking to keep costs low, skip Lucerne (all of Switzerland for that matter) and do not rent a car. Why don't you consider restricting your trip to Italy? It looks like you are seeking mostly small town/rural experiences. You can easily spend your two weeks in Northern Italy and keep lodging costs low, travel only by train, maybe some bus. Italy's Dolomites are fabulous, better than Lucerne for mountain activities IMO. The Dolomites in Italy are in my mind tied with the Bernese Oberland for outdoor activities, but Italy costs less and has better food. :-)

I will definitely look into the Dolomites - thank you for that suggestion. Great feedback on Switzerland as well. We don't get to travel often so I'd like to stop in for at least a couple days to see Switzerland. I was originally planning to stay in the Interlaken area, but it looked like that would take much longer to get to if we were coming to/from Lake Como. And Lucerne seems like it gives a good taste of Switzerland? Would you say we don't need more than two nights?

Since we're doing this on a budget, it's much cheaper for us to fly round trip to Frankfurt (as of today!), or else I would definitely fly in and out of different airports.

Slightly revised version below. We have another night we can add in somewhere - any suggestions?
Fly into Frankfurt
Heidelberg - 2 nights
Lucerne - 2 nights
Lake Como - 2 nights
Verona/Venice - 2 nights
Munich - 2 nights
Rothenburg ob der Tauber - 1 night (Or just stay in Frankfurt?)
Fly out of Frankfurt

Also, transportation...I'm getting hesitant that a rental car is our best option and want to think about the train more. Would we need to buy a pass before going? If so, which one?

Your revised plan looks much better. I would try to avoid as many 1-night stays as possible, but it might be more economical to spend a night and move on than do a daytrip that doubles your transportation costs for the day.

Bellagio is the most expensive place on Lake Como, I think, so you may want to stay elsewhere and enjoy Bellagio as a ferry stop. I spent a very happy day taking the ferry all along the lake, stopping at some towns. You should check on whether there is an all-day ferry pass, or if you need to buy separate tickets every time you disembark (which means you need to know in advance of buying the ticket, since they are priced by distances).

Your first plan had 15 nights. The revision has 11 nights. What's going on there?? I actually think if you really want the cheapest airfare you should be flexible about the number of nights and dates - sometimes just a couple nights more (or less) from what you had in mind can be MUCH cheaper.

"You could spend the rest of your life in Europe and not see everything." True. It's also true that you could spend just a few days trying to see what the tourist brochures and some guidebooks tell you to see, and see very little of the country or its people. With that in mind, some comments about your plans for Germany/Austria...

Your plan to drop Füssen is probably a good one. Time consuming to get there and away, "fake" castles (19th-century residential palace made to look like a castle.) And it's pretty full of tourists as small towns go.

The other most touristy place in Germany is Rothenburg. So going out of your way to spend a night there is only wise if you just really want to be around international tourists and the waiters and shopkeepers that tend to your tourist needs.

Heidelberg is OK. It was mostly spared during WW II (unlike Rothenburg, which was nearly half destroyed, then rebuilt.) And it's a real (big) German town with a lot more than just tourist shops. But the "castle" in Heidelberg is, again, a palace rather than an authentic castle.

Munich can be good - depends on what you have in mind, I guess - there are many options there.

So here's a streamlined outline that I might suggest to my best friends...

Arrive FRA, catch a train only 25 minutes to the university town of Mainz (2 nights.) Settle in, see what you can or have the energy for that first day. Mainz is very walkable and has a huge zone for pedestrians only. Try the Königshof or the IBIS (closer to the old town) for a good price.

Day 2: See the Middle Rhine Valley by train and cruise boat. 40 authentic castles in 40 miles of river, including Rheinfels and Marksburg. Very cool old world towns like Bacharach and Braubach that are similar to Rothenburg but without the massive tourist horde.

Day 3: It's about 4.5-5 hours of train travel to Lucerne, CH. Stop over in Heidelberg for several hours (use station lockers) and enjoy the town. Then arrive in the evening in Lucerne.

The rest... Not sure how many days where. But with Como, Verona and Venice, it will be several. THEN... FLY back to Germany on a discount airline... to Munich if you like, then train to FRA at the end... or just FLY on a budget airline back to FRA if you decide to spend more time in Switzerland and Italy. Frankfurt itself would be OK to visit for several hours at the end of your trip.

Russ, our trip would be two weeks (including travel time). Mainz looks lovely - will definitely consider changing out for Heidelberg. For the Middle Rine Valley, are you suggesting a one day cruise? To start and end where? When you say it's 4.5-5 hour train ride to Lucerne, from where are you talking about?

"For the Middle Rine Valley, are you suggesting a one day cruise?" To start and end where?
From Mainz, take the train to Bingen, board a northbound cruise boat for 1.5 hours to St. Goar or St. Goarshausen, depending on which side of the river you wish to visit right after the cruise. KD has 5 boats per day that do this route. After the cruise you can sightsee and return to Mainz by train. The Rheinland-Pfalz ticket covers all train travel and the St. Goar-St. Goarshausen ferry (if you need to cross the river - that depends on what towns you choose to visit.)

When you say it's 4.5-5 hour train ride to Lucerne, from where are you talking about?

That's total travel time from Mainz Hbf (Hbf = main station.) It will require slightly more travel time altogether if you stop over in Heidelberg since Heidelberg is not a stop on the main route but just a little east of the Mannheim stop. You can check the exact travel time yourself at the DB website by entering Heidelberg as a stopover between Mainz and Lucerne.

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

I think this itinerary would work well via public transportation. If you decide to price out a rental car, be aware that both Switzerland and Austria require vignettes for their highways, so that will be an additional cost if you pick up the car in Germany. In addition, check carefully about drop-off charges if you want to rent and drop off in different cities, especially if they're in different countries.

Thanks to everyone for giving feedback. We just bought our flights!

Any suggestions for what to buy ahead of time for public transportation? Would you recommend a pass? Or buy as we go?

Actually, there are four possible ways of handling your intra-European transportation:

• Multi-country pass, trying to cover all significant travel legs. This will probably be the most expensive option.

• Individual tickets bought pretty much last-minute, during your trip. This can also be costly.

• Individual tickets bought in advance, around the time they go on sale so you can take advantange of the special (non-refundable/non-changeable) advance-purchase fares available in many countries (but I think not in Switzerland).

• Some combination of the above, which might include a Swiss half-fare card if you were doing more traveling within Switzerland, but as it is, I doubt that would make sense. However, I think the special deals available from the Deutsche Bahn will save you a lot of money. Look at the listing in the left panel of that webpage under "Offers". A lot of those options do not need to be purchased way in advance. Often two people can travel for not much more than a single ticket, and the single ticket itself is discounted.

You need to list each trip you plan to take and check the price on the appropriate country's train-system website. Check the Deutsche Bahn first for every trip that touches or crosses Germany, because the DB does run trains into other countries. Ask here (probably best in the German forum) if you need assistance in figuring out the best DB deals.

"We just bought our flights!"
Which airports? Travel dates?

"You need to list each trip you plan to take and check the price on the appropriate country's train-system website."

This is indeed the best way to compare train options - at least check the major travel legs for advance-sale saver fares. You can normally check fares about 3 months out. So go ahead and have a look at January/February fares as examples of what you might pay for tickets bought well in advance. But there is NO compelling need to set an itinerary in concrete yet . Your trip is a LONG way off.

You have a lot of travel wish-list destinations for the amount of time you have. I think it would be wise for now just to read up more on the destinations you have in mind and determine which are most important to you. One or more will probably have to be crossed off out of time concerns.

But as you said, budget matters too... So I'll point out that the German Rail pass now offers access not only to Germany but to some destinations in other countries as well - including Bolzano (Dolomites) Venice and Verona, which are on your list. And the price of the GR Flexipass (compared with multi-country Eurail passes) in the second-class twinpass version is REALLY attractive. It could be money-smart to build a trip around the destinations covered by this particular pass.

The GRP doesn't get you around within Switzerland, but you might add on a pre-purchased "saver fare" from Germany to get there inexpensively.

acraven and Russ, thank you so much for your feedback. I've been trying to research transportation now because the Eurail pass is 20% off through December 31st, so I wanted to see if it's worth the splurge. We will both be 25 when we take the trip.

We will fly out of NYC on June 3 to Frankfurt and return June 17. Obviously still time to adjust but I've edited the itinerary a bit more (feels like it's all I think about these days :) I'm sure we'll add/subtract nights from certain places. The German Rail Pass does look like a great deal - thank you for suggesting. Will definitely take that heavily into consideration. It looks like getting to Switzerland will be the most expensive leg of the trip. Am I right in that assumption?

June 4 - Land in Frankfurt
Heidelberg - 2 nights
Lauterbrunnen/Wengen/Grindelwald - 3 nights
Bellagio/Lake Como - 3 nights
Verona/Venice - 2 nights
Munich OR Salzburg - 2 nights
Frankfurt - 1 night
June 17 - Fly home

"The German Rail Pass does look like a great deal - thank you for suggesting. Will definitely take that heavily into consideration. It looks like getting to Switzerland will be the most expensive leg of the trip. Am I right in that assumption?"

Probably not... Sample date of Jan. 10 at the DB site shows a fare of €39 from Heidelberg to Lauterbrunnen. If you buy saver-fare tickets at the DB site 91 days in advance of YOUR date in June for this travel leg, you will likely snag the same fare or something close to it. (Using that saver fare means you don't need to use up a rail pass day for that trip - one you can use elsewhere, of course.)

I realize that this is a budget trip, but I would think and possibly save and budget for a tandem paragliding trip in Lauterbrunnen. I had a beautiful day there while on a RS tour and several of us including the guide opted to do this out of Murren. It was a great flight. The view was breathtaking. Your pilot tailors the ride to your level of comfort. Some people wanted a tight corkscrew descent. I opted for a more gentle ride. At the time the offered to take pics and video. It's not cheap, as I recall about 180 USD equivalent but I thought it was well worth it and I don't generally splurge on stuff like this. You may have no interest in this but I if you do it's something to think about ahead of time.

As Switzerland is expensive, you can save some money by having picnic style meals. Go to the grocery store and pick up supplies to make your own meals.

Have a great trip.

Rocket, paragliding is definitely on our list! A friend just did it in Switzerland and LOVED it.

Another week, another itinerary change. After taking a closer look at travel times, I realized that my beloved Bellagio may need to be traded out for a more convenient spot. Lake Maggiore was recommended, and while it does look pretty, I haven't been able to find much on it. I would still like to do an Italian lake because I thought this could be a nice few days to relax and unwind. That said, I'd still like there to be some options for activities. Any thoughts Lake Maggiore? It is more accessible for arriving from Venice and going to Lauterbrunnen area. I'm still stumped as to how much time to spend in each area.

June 4 - Arrive in Frankfurt > Munich - 3 nights
Venice > 2 or 3 nights?
Lake Maggiore? > 2 or 3 nights?
Lauterbrunnen area > 3 nights
Heidelberg > 1 night
June 17 - Fly out of Frankfurt

I think Stresa on Lake Maggiore might fit your needs. It's an old-line resort that for some reason feels to me a bit like Locarno, Switzerland. I'd call it more "grand" than picturesque. But it's the jumping-off point for boat trips to the Borromean Isles, which are certainly good for a day.

There are probably some lovely, small, picturesque towns on Lake Maggiore, but someone else is going to have to come up with that information since I've only been to Stresa. I see, though, that Lake Orta is only 15 miles from Stresa, so you could certainly see it easily if you have a rental car. If you're training it, you'd probably want to take a taxi, because the bus/train route is circuitous and time-consuming.

I have another thought, though: There are lovely lakes near Lauterbrunnen. Google Lake Thun and Lake Brienz. You've got a lot of destinations for a 2-week trip. If you make the Stresa stop a one-nighter, you should still be able to squeeze in a trip to the Borromean Isles. (Do verify the lake boat schedule, though.) The extra night could be added to Venice or to the Lauterbrunnen area. The latter would allow for time on Lake Thun or Lake Brienz and give you some scheduling flexibility in the mountains if you hit a patch of bad weather. Your drive back to Heidelberg is going to take 4+ hours, and you'll probably want to get an early start that day so you can see some of Heidelberg. Three nights around Lauterbrunnen would be just a bit more than 2 days, which isn't a lot of time when dealing with mountain weather.