2 middle aged sisters going to Europe 5 weeks 6 countries...

I see two odd mode of transportation issues:

. London/Edinburgh/London. You've said it two ways, it seems.
Assuming that you'll take the Eurostar from Paris to London, there's no sense flying up to Edinburgh since the trains run city center to city center and will probably shave a little time, overall. The comparative costs would be close. You could fly back down if all you plan to do is make a transition to homeward from Heathrow.

. Rome to Paris.
That's begging for a flight. Flying will be cheaper and take about a quarter of the time.

French countryside is all over the place and all different. Work that one out.

For packing:
Lay out everything you'll need.
Put half of it back in the closet.
Repeat until it fits.
Include a rain jacket.

It really depends on what you mean by a couple of days in a city. You should count the number of nights in a city. Remember, every time you change location you lose at least a half day and often more depending on travel distances. It takes times to find the hotel, check-in, unpack at little, get oriented to the new city, meals, restrooms, figure out the local transportation system, buy tickets, etc. Then it is a repeat - repack, check out, get to the train station, find your train, travel, and then it all over again. Will spend a lot of time in trains and train stations.

Put some pins in a map. It is long ways from Prague to Scotland and then !!! back. You should as a min use an open jaw ticket. Into Edinburgh and home from Prague. Much more economical and vast saving in travel. Personally I would dump Scotland and England and save it for another trip.

Asking how time for each city is meaningless. In three days you can cover the highlights, must see items, touristy stuff fairly easily. But what have your really seen? We have spent closed to a month in London over the 20 years and still have things to see and do. Same for the three weeks we have spent in Rome.

If you really what a whirlwind tour, a small taste of everything. Do a cruise. It will be more economical and less stress full but at the same time you can see a lot.

Recommend that you ask your packing/luggage question under Tips & Trip Reports... Packing. You will also find lots of similar questions with lots of answers there.

Being on the move as much as you are tentatively planning, packing light will be the wise thing to do. Taking a breather for a couple of hours to do laundry once a week is a good and culturally educational thing, as is dropping your laundry off to have someone else do it for you.

I travel for 4+ weeks with a 22" carry on and a tote or cross body bag. I take less than is on the packing list on this RS website. My carry on weighs 6 pounds. I keep what's in it down to 14 pounds, so that the whole thing weighs 20 pounds. That's as much as I can manage along with my cross body bag.

Remember that you won't be just getting on and off trains. You will be going up and down multiple flights of stairs to change trains and to get to and from just about anyplace you go -- especially if you are going lots of places. That includes your hotel rooms.

Most people will tell you to coordinate your clothes so that you can make many combinations out of a few pieces. The best source to visually see what that means is the Vivienne Files. The whole blog is about that, but click on packing in the group of topics on the right side of the page to see her specific postings on that. She also shows more items than I take, but the concepts are what's important.

Wow thanks so much and to everyone's point, I think I was being a kid in a candy store. I think the UK is probably best served alone as well as giving ourselves another full week to add in for travel days.

Really appreciate the insight and feedback!

jet58,
I was an overpacker until I saw the light after UA failed to get my bag to me in Cleveland and I spent 3 days in the same clothes and had to spend $60 on toiletries. I learned to pack in one 21" rollaboard and a daypack and have never gone back. My clothes weigh less than the "other stuff" we women need. Whether 3 days or 4 weeks, I pack 2 pants and 1 skirt (wear one) or 3 pants, 5 tops, a cardigan or pullover, and a rain jacket. Seasonally all that changes is the fabric content: merino wool and fleece in winter, linen and lightweight cotton knit in summer. Gortex shoes in winter, not-so-much in summer. Never more than two pair of shoes -- 1 to wear and 1 to pack. Simple palette: black plus colors that mix (or navy + or khaki +). I like black and red or black and hot pink, for example. Everything has to mix-and-match. 2 or 4 bras, 5 panties, 3 socks. You can do it! Practice pack then take your bag for a long walk -- at least a mile, and at least 30-45 minutes. See if you can manage. If not, dump something. Remember you can buy toiletries abroad. Deodorant, toothpaste, lotion, etc., are all easily available and often better than U.S. products,.

Have fun!

I travel for 3 months with a 22" rolling bag and a daypack or crossbody bag. Take travel-size toiletries and use the ones supplied by the hotels when you travel, or buy them as you travel. I take enough clothes for one week plus what I wear. I send out laundry or do sink washes (not more than 20 minutes) if necessary. You must pack to travel, not to set up house in a new location every two or three days.

Or, pack everything you might possibly need and plan to send half of it home after your first encounter with a train station with no elevator. It's a lot easier to pack light from the beginning.

Some of your itinerary involves flying for efficiency and cost-effectiveness. If you can, fly open-jaw or multi-city at the beginning and end of your trip.

Our first trip to Europe in 2008 I heeded RS advice and hubby and I both had a carry on size and our personal item only. I was never more glad we did (I had coworkers think I was looney tunes for only taking a carry on for an 18 day trip. We have subsequently done up to 23 day trip with the same amnt of luggage). On and off trains, up and down steps both at the train stns and at our accoms (my husband likes to say when people ask him his impression of Europe...'Steps'). Watching other people struggle with jumbo bags...you just have to plan to do laundry along the way. I try and make sure that I stay in places with laundry machines available and plan to do laundry once or twice along the way. Mind you, I would LOVE to pack more...when we went to California, we took an extra carry on because we were going to be renting a car. If I was going to Europe and renting a car for the whole time, I would prob take an extra bag...but not using public transport. And travelling light helps cut down on souvenirs! And travelling light on the trains gives you one less worry - you don't want to be struggling with your bags and miss your stop (some are fairly fast) or get off too fast and leave something behind.

And yes - def coordinate your clothes. I have learned that. This trip, I am sticking with a light grey/black/navy combo - some grey and black capris, one pair of jeans (I love my jeans), navy/grey tops (and prob some purple thrown in for colour), lightweight grey North Face jacket that is also waterproof. Black sandals, and some black waterproof shoes. We've always gone over mid-Sept to early Oct and the weather in France/Italy has always been warm (sometimes downright hot - in Florence the 3rd week of Sept we hit some really hot days). As we headed north, usually into the first week of Oct, I found Northern France and the UK cooling down. We actually bought a fleece pull-over when we were in UK as we hadn't brought any sweaters - but that's the great thing - if you don't have something, you can always buy it.

Never been to Prague, but if you leave that out, I recommend Venice - I love it - will be going back for the 4th time this year. Never been to Vienna. I think Florence deserves 3 nights (we stayed 2 nights, which was one full day and a morning - missed so much). Rome I think needs 3-4 nights (some may disagree - we did 5 nights in 08 and are doing another 5 nights this year). Paris def 3-4 nights. Make sure you look at prebooking some entries. If you want to do Uffizi or Accademia in Florence - book your entries ahead to save time waiting in line (you could waste 2 hrs waiting). In Rome, if you want to do the Vatican museum - prebook. Look at city passes - in Rome - the Roma pass seems to be a fairly good deal - and lets you skip the line at places like the Colosseum. If you want to do the Borghese Gallery, please note you have to book a time.
Five weeks is a good chunk of time...

Thanks everyone,

We have decided to first add more time to the trip and second, to eliminate Eastern Europe and Scotland. To everyone's point, its too much back and forth and felt too crammed for my style. Now we can go from London to Rome via air and then take the trains back up through Italy, Switzerland, France and have more than 1 week for each country before going back to London to fly home.

The entire trip just feels better now and makes more sense. Thank you all so much for your feedback. There is too much to see and I think I would be cheating my sister and the history of the amazing cities by trying to fit all of this in 5 weeks.

The UK will be another trip another time as will Eastern Europe. Whew.... Now I just need to practice packing and I will carry it around to see how it feels.. Great suggestion!! Thanks!

You're definitely on the right track. Be sure to take your loaded luggage up and down lots of stairs.

I looked up the Eagle Creek Morphus 22, and besides noticing the very high price, I saw that the two bags zipped together weigh 7 lbs 14 oz. The carry-on size is based on them being zipped together. If you get/have this bag and plan to keep it zipped as your "large" carry-on, be sure to practice lifting the filled bag(s) up onto something over your head to simulate putting it in the bins on the plane or racks on trains.

Also be aware that if you fly internal European airlines, you will have to check that bag even as small as it is and you can take only one smaller bag/purse as cabin baggage.

jet58,

Packing: All you need to do is to sit down and look at what you will NEED and what you dont. Get a copy of Rick Steves, Europe Through the Back Door. It will cover alot of questions you have including packing. Everyone will have their own way and what to pack. This is something you will have to figure out for yourself. If youre gonig to make a habit of traveling, make a list. Note that the list isnt chiseled into stone, so it can be edited at will when needed. I use mine as a "dont forget" list since im loosing more brain cells than making. ALso, if you plan on traveling more, look into getting some "travel" clothes. They can be lighter, less bulky and dry faster.

Dont forget, they have washing machines in other places other than the USA too.

Travel: once you get over there, the hard part is done. Train travel is so much nicer there than in the USA. I prefer it over driving. Also, plane isnt that bad either, but remember. Most trains will take you from City Center to City Center. So no worries about having to how to get from Airport A, B, C or D to City Center. Of course some of the travel books will give you the ins/outs of such.

Usually getting from a large city to another large city isnt an issue. Its the one cow towns that pose some head scratching. Dont forget that if a train doesnt go there, maybe a bus will. Then theres the car/taxi or hoofing it.

As far as how long to stay. How blue is blue? Just know that 2 or 3 days in any city will probably not be enough, but look at it as you will come back or you will go bonkers thinking of what you missed. Get some priority list going and note any closed days or extended hours open days. Then have at it. I plan my trips so i have a good idea on what i want to see and use that as my gauge as to how many days i will stay. Some people do it the other way around, but thats for them. I may adapt that or do a mix, but for now, its how i do it.

Weather: This is where i hope for the best. I look at the average daily high/low and days of rain in the back of RS books. This give me an idea on if it will be wet. But since i come from a green place (it rains here), its not an issue. I always bring a medium warm breathable water/wind proof jacket with a hood. Thats so far has been all i needed. But i will say that i travel in March/Sept, so far, and the weather has been acceptable for what im use to living at home.

Path: I try to travel in some path. Not jumping from corner to corner or backtracking. In my opinion, back tracking is a waste of time/$$$. But there are some occasions where it maybe necessary. Since you know where you want to go, thats half the battle. what i do and you may not like to do it, i print out some paper maps of the counties i will be visiting and mark up the map with the places i want to see. from there you should get an idea of a path. Maybe you plop yourself down in the center and do day trips radiating out. But thats what i do. Even if its a circular type of path, thats okay too.

im sure others will chime in with other hints and such.

happy trails.

I'm glad that the plan is tightening up and coming together. I have packed in a carry-on sized bag for trips up to 10 months. Yes, I was tired of those few outfits, but nobody else knew or cared. For flights within Europe, see www.skyscanner.com. Rick’s Train Travel Time & cost Map gives you an overview of faster train times and regular, 2nd-class fares.

Instead of wasting money and time, especially time, by returning to London, I would use an open jaw ticket and come home from Paris or somewhere else.

Hi jet58,

I'm 65 and just did 6 weeks in Europe--although I wasn't on my own the whole time as I took a tour of Provence for 11 days, spent one week in Nice and then went to the Cannes Film Festival for five days with another group.

Then on my own I took the train to Venice from Cannes--it took all day with two changes, Cannes to Ventimiglia, Ventimiglia to Milan, to Milan to Venice. From Venice I took the GoOptivan to Lake Bled in Slovenia. Then the train from Ljublijana to Zagreb. I flew in and out of Paris. SFO to Paris to Marseille; then Zagreb to Paris to SFO. Distances can be deceiving in Europe as there are mountains where you don't necessarily expect them!

I also packed light and did frequent sink washing plus three or four times machine washing. I took one small wheelie bag and one carry on bag. I was going to get my bigger suitcase until my neighbor told me to take out half of what I'd packed and use the smaller bag--and I'm so glad I did! It is really important to be able to manage your own luggage and not look like your're struggling or else you get weird people who hang out at the train stations approaching you pretending to be helpful when all they want is money or pick pockets.

Also, I was nervous about getting the train tickets from the kiosks at the train station but it's surprisingly easy and also they have multiple language options so you don't have to try to read the instructions in a foreign language. Just try to take it slow and methodical and it'll be all right.

The best thing is to just relax and you'll have a great time.

Bon Voyage!

Janet