1st Europe Trip - Munich to Rome

This is do-able on your own, if a little hectic. For several of the sites, a guide is almost mandatory: Pompeii and the Colosseum in particular. And you will have to walk; both are enormous. Both are certainly memorable, too, and a good guide will enhance your experience.
It's fair to say that Italians are proud of their country but they are not living in the past. The rustic settings can be pretty but they have flat-screen TVs too so don't expect postcard relics. The past, in some ways, belongs to theme parks.
The more research you can do in advance, the better the enjoyment. Your vacation starts when you call up the first website. There are plenty of options, from competitive sources. Look at the travel guides from Rick Steves and others; check the archives for previous questions; the Internet is your friend. Unless you want to pay a fortune and be carted around in a bus, there's lot's of work you can do. You will be rewarded. And you might like to take some sort of Internet connection with you, smartphone or tablet or travel laptop, so you can use your hotel's free Wifi for research on the run.

From your list of interests, Italy would be a great place for your trip. Medieval times are relatively modern in Italy vs. their really old societies, etc.

But taking any trip to Italy will be difficult if you're not interested in museums and art, as they're so much of the Italian travel experience.

And if you have physical walking limitations, it makes you have specialized travel needs. To head off into Southern Bavaria, Western Tyrol (Austria) and Northern/Central Italy without prior European travel experience would might put you over your head by independent travel.

I would suggest you try to find a tour that travels from Munich down into Rome. It's a shame you don't have another week, as you'll only have 10 days on the ground after subtracting your first and last days coming and going to the airports.

Asilach,

Just returned from 2 1/2 weeks in Italy so here are my thoughts on your Italy portion.

Packing - if you are going to be traveling by train (which it sounds like you are) ONLY take bags that you and your husband can easily manage by yourselves - which pretty much means a small carry on each and a daypack or tote bag. Getting on and off the trains with large suitcases is not easy!!! The entrance to the train cars is up several narrow steps, plus bag storage is minimal - since you're trip is only 10 days, a carry on each is quite do able.

Since you mentioned that you have difficulty with walking - Venice might not be the best choice since transportation is only by walking and the vaporetto's - so I'd advise looking at what you want to see/do in Venice and then deciding if you can do the amount of walking required to see what you want to see!!!

As for what to do after Venice, I would skip renting a car and driving to Ravenna - instead I'd tack an extra day onto Rome and do another day trip - Tarquinia, Orvieto, Villa D'Este and Ostia Antica are all easy day trips from Rome and fit with your "medieval village/ruins" theme. Since this is your first trip to Europe I would try and keep the logistics to a minimum. Bear in mind that each change of location eats up anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of day (packing, checking out, getting to train station/car rental location and then the travel itself).

Although you mentioned you've no interest in the Vatican you might be interested in the Scavi tour - which is a tour of the necropolis under the Vatican - we did this tour on our trip and found it fascinating and might be a nice addition given your interest in the Colosseum. The tour must be booked in advance but since you are planning ahead you have plenty of time to book it!
As for Pompeii - it's about a 3 hr. journey by train from Rome to Pompeii. Given that you are planning to do this as a day trip, I'd recommend doing it as a guided tour - Dark Rome and Walks of Italy both have tours which will help you make the most of your time in Pompeii.

Good luck with your planning!

For Pompeii, it is only about hour and half to two hours from Rome if you take the fast train from Rome. An hour from Rome and then half hour from Naples on local train to Pompeii.I seem to remember is second Pompei stop and then is only maybe two hundred feet from train to the entrance.. Easily done in a day. Be sure to wear good walking shoes and if in summer a hat and take bottle of water.

"1)Should we rent a car in Munich to drive to the Neuschwanstein Castle (must see)"

Neuschwanstein is easy enough to reach by public transportation from Munich. Unless you wanted to see more stuff in the area, I don't think a rental car will make things any easier.

"and Romance Road" With just over a week to divide between Italy and Germany, you don't have enough time to see the Romantic Road, and it runs in the opposite direction than you need to travel. And it's just a rural secondary road, the scenery is nothing special for that region of Germany. Some of the towns along it are quite attractive, but attractive towns aren't exactly rare in Germany.

"If car, where to get it and any restrictions?" If you decide on a rental car, probably the easiest place to pick it up would be the Munnich Hauptbahnhof (main train station). The only driving restrictions (environmental) won't apply to your rental car.

"We want beautiful scenery, medieval/ancient ruins/villages, a couple of castles." At least in Germany, November usually isn't a great time for "beautiful scenery". It's usually a damp, overcast month. The countryside usually looks kind of gray and brown and visibility can be somewhat limited. This won't really affect your ability to enjoy castles or towns, but just don't expect those brilliant Technicolor vistas you see on postcards.

"Worried about travelling with big heavy luggage." If you're only traveling for a little over a week, how much luggage are you planning to take? Pack reasonably, and I doubt you'll have problems on the train. Millions of people manage rail travel with luggage every day of the year.

I would suggest packing very light, carryon only. It isn't easy walking to and from trains to hotels and getting on and off trains while schlepping luggage. If you decide to drive, driving in Germany is easy, but high speed, stay in the right hand lane. Get the car and drop the car in Germany, then use trains in Italy. IMHO I wouldn't recommend driving in Italy (unless it is just countryside) especially if this is your first time in Europe. It isn't like driving here in the US. It can be scary…seriously!! We have done it!

Unless you have a special reason to go to Germany (family heritage, etc) I would recommend that you take the time you have for this special trip and focus it on Italy, i.e Venice, Florence and Rome, with possible side train trips to the Cinque Terre and Siena. Florence is Midieval, the Neuschwanstein Castle isn't(built 1869-92). You may not like art, but of you allow yourself to be exposed to it I think it will change your mind. An art class or reading Ricks book on Art will help you learn and appreciate it more. You should be able to get the book in your local library. Since this is your first trip to Europe at, believe or not, a relatively young age and assuming you can afford it I think you will be hooked and want to go back. If you go to the TOUR section of the RS site and locate the Best of Florence, Venice and Rome you will see an Itinerary tab. You can use that to get ideas, plan your own tour and only use the things you find that appeal to you.

Answers to questions

Pack light, even if it is two carry on sized bags, backpack or roller. For a trip this length, actually nine days in Europe, you should need very little in the way of clothing, especially if you both layer them. Pack for five days and do laundry once in the middle. You can wear your coat and heavier clothing on the airplane both ways an pack the lighter things in your bag. You mentioned walking might be a problem for you and Europe is not necessarily accessible as is the US. Light bags will be easier to manage getting on and of the trains or other public transportation. Renting a car is easy and there is a small fee to turn them in at a second location within a country. Country to country drop offs are expensive, but with the short amount of time you have there trains are the most efficient way to get from one city to the other. Lastly, could I suggest that you watch Rick Steves three part travel tips video, which you can find on You Tube, or his travel tips lecture which is also there. I believe they will help you with your predicament.

About trains: Try DB Bahn to find times, distances, train changes and even see maps of those routes. You can only buy tickets there for German trains, but you see all the rest even if you have to use "dummy" dates. The route from Munich to Venice is beautiful, even if it is about 7 hours.

About rental cars: I don't think driving yourself is needed for your plans. Plus you would have to pay extra for an automatic. We've rented 5 cars in Europe so far and none was an automatic. To learn more about driving, go to Gemut.com and be sure to study the brochure on renting a car in Europe in the upper right hand corner of the page. Contact Andy by email or phone for any specifics not answered by your research there.

Take to heart everything everyone says here about all the walking needed for what you describe. It will be more than you can possibly imagine. Good shoes, and I mean really good ones, and shots in my knees are requirements for me before any trip. For any of the things you want to see or do, be sure find out how long it typically takes and consider it a blessing if you are able to sit down for any of that time.

Your biggies, Pompeii, the Coliseum and the Roman ruins (the Forum?) are all places where you will spend hours on your feet with few if any places to sit and rest. You go up and down stairs and walk on a mixture of kinds of surfaces. At least in Venice you can pop into a cafe for awhile. I don't remember any place to sit in Neuschwanstein, but I saw it a long time ago. You can get a ride up there and back down, for a fee of course. Go to the Tourist Information for more details.

Also take to heart what people say about packing light, especially since you mention concern about heavy bags twice in your posting. I use a spinner and keep the weight down to 20 pounds or less. I also wear a cross-body messenger bag. That's all I take for our annual month-long trips. We usually wash clothes once a week. Since you are going in November, it will be cold and perhaps snowy or wet in some places. Layer, layer, layer and wear your heaviest stuff on the plane.

Taking time to do laundry sounds boring, but it is kind of interesting because you learn how they do it there. If you coordinate your clothes well, you will likely need to do this only once on your trip. If you coordinate really well, you might only need to wash some things out in a hotel room sink.

Besides the resources here on packing, you might take a look at the Vivienne Files and search for packing in the search box. She always shows way more than I take, but she has excellent illustrations of how to coordinate. For me seeing the items is better than seeing a list.

About the tour guide thing. We were lucky enough to have Ron in Rome when he was still there. He was worth every Euro. It was one of those 6 hour type days and he included the Forum and the Coliseum.

You said you didn't need to see the Vatican and we didn't on that private tour, but you might be interested in the Basilica of San Clemente. You start far below ground with a 1st century Mithraic temple and as you journey up, you pass through a 4th century church and finally come to where you came in, a 12th century basilica. I loved the history of it and how an example of pagan Rome exists below a dark ages church and a Medieval one.

Keep in mind through all the planning that the days will be short in November, and have fun planning your trip as well as going on it.

Think of your trip in terms of nights. You have nine (Nov.. 7 thru 15). You propose three nights in Munich and two in Venice. That leaves only four, and you want to drive down the Adriatic coast to see Ravenna? No time.

With limited walking ability, I suggest you skip Venice. There is no way to avoid LOTS of walking there, much of it up and over bridges. Just getting to your hotel, unless you book an expensive one with its own dock and take a water taxi, will require schlepping your luggage thru narrow alleys and up and over bridges.

I also suggest you skip Ravenna. Itis nice town and the mosaics are truly amazing. But the mosaics are in old churches and baptist rises from the 4th and 5 th centuries. These are scattered around town, among the modern buildings. There is nothing old or medieval about modern Ravenna, most buildings are 19th century if I remember right.

So, what I WOULD suggests that after Munich, you ditch the car Nd take the direct trail to Verona. This is a lovely old ( "medieval") or thereabouts city, but it goes back to Roman times. The Roman amphitheater in Verona is still in use, not a ruin. There probably won't be performances in November, but you can see inside the arena. Mthere are other Roman ruins just across the river.

After a night in Verona, continue on the train to Orvieto ( change trains in Bologna). This is a very old and pretty hill town, with great views across the countryside. There is a bus that will take you from the top of the funicular into the Duomo area. Nice little B and B's ( clean and charming) abound.

From Orvieto it is a short train ride to Rome. You have 3 nights left, time to include a visit to Pompeii.

There are lots of reasons for not renting a car in Italy. Nyou may not be able to get an automatic, even if you think you have reserved one. You absolutely do not want to drive into Rome. The autostrada is fast but you can get hemmed in by trucks, not fun in a little Fiat Punto. I could go on and on, but bottom line is trains are the way to go in Italy, especially for first-timers who are mainly going to Rome.

asilach,

You've received lots of good advice so far, and I have a few comments to add. To begin with, it appears that you only have NINE days for actual touring. With such a short time frame, I would NOT suggest renting a car as travel via high speed trains will be much quicker (no car can match a speed of 300 kmH).

There are lots of possibilities, but perhaps something like this would work....

• Nov. 6: Depart U.S.
• Nov. 7: Arrive Munich; take S-Bahn S1 or S8 to the main Hbf.
• Nov. 8: Tour Munich (Marienplatz, etc.)
• Nov. 9: Day trip to Neuschwanstein (you can either make the compulsory reservations yourself, or book a tour with Radius Tours and they will take care of all the arrangements; you'll be travelling via public transit so won't need a car).
• Nov. 10: Train to Venice (there's a direct departure (no changes) from Munich Hbf at 11:38, arriving Venezia Santa Lucia at 18:10. That would probably be the easiest one for you).
• Nov. 11: Tour Venice
• Nov. 12: Tour Venice
• Nov. 13: Freccia (high speed) train to Rome. There are hourly departures with a travel time of 3H:45M, and I'd suggest taking a mid-morning train as that will allow you to have a leisurely breakfast at your hotel (which you'll be paying for) and arrive in mid-afternoon which is a good time as hotel rooms will have been serviced by then. The new Italo high speed trains also operate on that route, but they use different stations in Rome, I'd suggest using the Freccia in this case.
• Nov. 14: Day trip to Pompeii. You can either take a day tour (I'd have to research firms offering those) or make the trip on your own (which is easy to do, although it will be a long day). To travel on your own, travel via Freccia train to Napoli Centrale, and then walk downstairs to the Garibaldi station and transfer to the Circumvesuviana local train (be sure to wear Money Belts as it has a bit of a "reputation"). You'll be disembarking at the Pompeii Scavi station, and it's only a short walk from there to the historical site. If you want a Guide for that, you can either use one suggested in the Guidebook (Gaetano Manfredi is excellent!) or a local Guide. As you enter the site, you'll probably be approached by several Guides offering their services. At the conclusion of your visit, reverse the process back to Rome.
• Nov. 15: Touring Rome
• Nov. 16: Travel via Leonardo Express from Rome to FCO airport (DON'T forget to validate!). The trip is about 35 minutes, and very easy. Which Terminal does your outbound flight depart from?

As the others have said, packing light would definitely be a good idea!

If I think of anything else, I'll add another reply.

Happy travels!

Thanks everyone! I'm now second guessing the car in Italy (although I still think I'll rent one in Germany, just to be able to drive around). I'm very used to driving in Manhattan (aggressively and fearlessly) so I think I could handle the craziness, just not the lack of parking and all the ZTLs(?).

I still want to spend 1 night between Venice and Rome, and would would like to "see Italy". So my next questions:

a)how can I take trains to do that? Can we stop at a few places (where?), eventually settling in one of them to sleep?
b)if we stop in a few, can we store luggage at train stations?

I'm still insistent on doing Venice, even with my walking limitations. I REALLY want to see Venice, even if it means spending most of the time on the vaporettos. I'll try to get a hotel close to the train station to solve the luggage problem.

I've also started thinking we might spend the last night (or 2) in Naples/Pompeii instead of going back to Rome, and flying home from Naples. I feel like I really only need 1 day of sightseeing in Rome, I just want to see the major points I mentioned.

I realize this trip is not going to be leisurely, and we won't have time to see things in depth. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford to go back, so I basically want to just be able to say I was there, and saw it.

asilach,

In order to spend one night between Venice and Rome, you might consider either Florence or Siena. Both are easily accessible by train. However if you decide on Siena, it's somewhat easier to travel by Bus from Florence, as that will drop you right in the centre of town, rather than the train station at the bottom of the hill (although you could still travel by train and take a Taxi up to the town).

Some (but not all) stations have a Deposito Bagagli (luggage storage).

I suggest you get a photo-based guidebook to identify towns that interest you. Eye Witness guides or National Geographic guides are couple of possibilities. If mobility is a problem, avoid hill towns like Siena or Assisi. You might consider visiting some of the towns near Venice. Padua and Verona are couple that occur to me. Both are flat, easy day trips from Venice by train, and offer historical interest. You could then return to Venice for the night, and take the high-speed train directly to Rome the next day. Also, keep in mind that in mid November, some tourist infrastructure in small towns will be closed for the season.

I read that you are considering cutting Rome down to one day. What a pity. We have been to Italy twice. The first time we planned to go to florence, but with SO much to do/see in Rome we spent the entire 8 days there. Second trip, we did Venice and Rome w/ a side trip to Pompeii for a full day via bus from Rome. With airfare so costly from the US it would be a shame to miss it. If you are really only looking at one day - I would say just skip it altogether, and just use Rome as a pit stop for the rest of Italy.

We are travelling back to Rome in late April and will spend a few days doing things we never managed to get to in two previous visits in addition to a few favorites.... then head off to the north in Italy before going to Bavaria and Austria

Happy Travels

Too many options. Too little time. And things seem to keep getting more complicated.

Please remember that to spend a day doing anything usually requires spending the night on both sides of that day in that place. To go from one place to another requires re-packing, checking out, checking in, etc. It all takes more time and effort than expected. It is definitely nothing like taking a cruise or going to one location for a vacation.

You originally mentioned 3 nights in Germany, but listed only 1 thing you want to see there, and it's not medieval but rather fake medieval built in the 19th century. You later mentioned that you really want to drive in Germany. Did you check with Gemut.com about what that will entail? Did you check Google Maps Directions for potential routes and the times it will take to drive from Munich to Neuschwanstein? Did you take the potential nasty weather into consideration?

So far, the conversation here seems to have concentrated on Italy. Jim suggested that maybe you should skip Germany and devote all 9 days on the ground to Italy. If you stick with the 3 nights in Germany, you will have only 6 in Italy. The day of the first one of those will be spent on the train from Munich to Venice. You will see spectacular scenery but all your daylight hours will be spent doing it.

I couldn't help but notice that you mentioned the luggage thing again in the context of getting a hotel close to the Santa Lucia train station. If you do not limit yourself to carry-on bags, luggage is going to be a problem no matter where you go because you will not have any help with it anywhere you go. If you cannot manage it on your own, up and down stairs, walking for several blocks, cut back until you can. This is especially true if you intend to get on and off trains to "see Italy."

By the way, and I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to use the train as a hop-on-hop-off method of seeing other towns, I suspect that you will have to buy separate little tickets. Doing that will make the trip much longer and in my opinion, not teach you much about the towns except what you can see in the immediately walkable area around the station. And it's possible that if the place you hop off is small enough, there will be no place to leave your bags.

You can work out your traveling and touring so that you arrive late afternoon, spend a little time then and after dark to walk around the town, spend more time the next morning and perhaps early afternoon to do the same the next day and repeat for the next place you go until you have to go home.

You will probably need to spend 2 nights in Rome to be able to see what you want to see there on the day between. I say that because if you do overnight stops on the way, it is quite possible that you will arrive in Rome too late to do either of your top priorities. The only limitation to doing them in one full day will be your stamina and walking ability.

Now, having been all the places you want to see and done all the things you want to do, having lived and driven in Germany at all times of the year, and having some mobility issues myself, I agree with Jim that you would do better to spend all your time in Italy and travel at a more leisurely pace. The last thing you want to do is get sick or injure yourself due to exhaustion on this very special trip.

I think skipping Germany makes sense. You're not going to see medevial villages and castles within Munich - most of the architecture in that city is reconstructions of stuff from the 1700s - 1900s. It's a great city but not quaint and not medieval. If you want that, you'd be better off focusing elsewhere in Germany (like the Romantic Road) but I think you can get everything you want/need from Italy on this trip and you'll enjoy more with a slower pace.