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18 days in Europe first time

I am planning an 18-20 days trip to Europe with my family wife and 2 kids 5 yrs and 2 yrs. I have the following itinerary in mind . Traveling from end July to mid August

5 nights Lucerne - making Lucerne the base to visit nearby areas including Interlaken
2 nights Zürich
3 nights Munich
5 nights Amsterdam
4-5 nights Paris

Traveling in between will be train/low cost flights

Question is
How’s the above itinerary with kids? I don’t want to do too many cities with young kids . Will they enjoy in these cities and how’s the duration in each of these (too many or too less days). Is there another city / country I can add? I was thinking Rome and Venice but due to ongoing heatwave decided against it?

Any suggestion on the trip planning will be welcome.

Thanks

Posted by
10344 posts

Changing lodging locations is always a challenge and eats up a half or more of a day. Those days will be extra stressful with a 5 and 2 year old. More home-basing is one way to deal with that, but then you either see less or you have to make more day trips, which brings up extra stress.

Of course if the kids got a vote, they'd probably prefer to stay around home.

Doing Europe with young kids is just plain challenging on everyone and, aside from saving European trips for a few years in the future (which doesn't sound good when you're in the mood to go), there's not much you can do to change things.

Posted by
5239 posts

Switzerland = expensive. I'm not sure if there's much of interest in Zurich, particularly for kids. My wife has spent the last year working during the week in Zurich and every time she suggested coming over with the kids during half term I kept researching things to do an struggled to find much to interest them. Plus the costs were a prohibitve factor. I recall a brief few hours in Basel on our return from the Black Forest and the prices were eye watering and I've also seen what my wife pays for meals at a subsidised canteen!

Munich, much the same. I really enjoyed my visit to Munich but that's because I went with a group of friends, every night was spent in a beer garden or two, a bit of sightseeing during the day but Munich doesn't offer much. We really enjoyed swimming in the lakes nearby and if your kids are comfortable swimmers they should love it too, lots of bars and restaurants surround the lake offering cheap, popular fare such as pizzas, hot dogs, roast chicken etc. You might have an impromptu oompah band strike up a few times as well. We also took a day trip to Salzburg, the five year old may enjoy Hohensalzburg Fortress, particularly the medieval torture instruments, your 2 year old will most likely be nonchalant about the whole trip but so will most 2 year olds, it's certainly not a reason for not travelling.

5 nights in Amsterdam seems overkill and Paris........well, I've never been a fan of Paris so I'll let others who hold more fondness towards it to chime in, suffice to say it's more of a city for adults than children.

If it were me I'd be out of the cities. You mentioned the heatwave being a reason for excluding Rome and Venice but be under no illusion that places such as Zurich, Munich and Paris will be any more comfortable. It topped 37c in Zurich last week and whilst my wife was staying in a purpose built modern hotel for the company she worked for and it had air conditioning, Swiss law prevents the temperature going lower than 6c to what it is outside. So if it's 37c you are only allowed to cool your room to 31c!

We were in Munich in an AirBnB in June during a heatwave. No AC in the apartment, no airflow in the middle of a built up city, lots of brick and concrete to absorb the heat during the day and slowly release it at night and it all makes for a stifling, uncomfortable night. Likewise Paris, Amsterdam, London and much of continental Europe.

I understand the restrictions that some people have when it comes to travel times, with school age children ourselves we know only too well the problems this incurs and I completely understand the desire to visit the major cities in Europe if you're visiting from afar however the cities in summer are so often miserable and unbearable, even more so with two young children.

I've been to Washington DC, Williamsburg VA, Savannah GA and Orlando FL all during August and the heat was unbearable but once you hit the coast at Hilton Head Island or West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale or South Beach, Miami it makes all the difference. Children love water and I would strongly recommend basing your visits around coastlines or resorts, hotels, villas with a pool and out of the city. Take day excursions, leave early in the morninig, do a bit of exploring, have lunch and then return for an afternoon cooling off in the water. We did similar in Nice a couple of years ago, rented a villa a 20 minute drive from Nice with a pool. Whilst we were there the area experienced a significant heatwave and we would take a drive to various towns and villages in the morning, have lunch somewhere shaded and outside and return for an afternoon cooling off in the pool. It was too hot to anything else, even a walk along the Promenade Des Anglais provided no relief and the only time it became bearable was at night when you could just about be comfortable sat in a restaurant outside and hope to catch the sea breeze.

Posted by
11027 posts

Traveling from end July to mid August

2019 or 2020?

Posted by
2084 posts

You did not mention criteria such as interests - so who shall give a feedback without a base?

July to mid August & How’s the above itinerary with kids?

I do not know what temperatures your kids are used to but maybe check the climate tables. Forecasts longer 4-5 days you can forget in European climate zones. In Germany the heatwave seems to be gone for the next days but nobody knows 4-6 weeks ahead.

In general 1: very much city hopping. Sometimes the most interesting sights / experiences are on the countryside.

In general 2: You did not mention one destination / sight which is explicitely for kids. And please not Disneyland close to Paris.

Posted by
5239 posts

You asked about other countries. Have you considered the Baltic Coast, paarticularly Gdansk and Sopot in Poland? Summer temperatures will be warm but not stifling, prices are reasonable (except the big Western giants all who have a presence there, Marriott, Hilton, Radisson, Sofitel et al and if they're there then you know that it's far from a less desirable destination). You can have a mix of history, culture and beach time.

Or there's the UK, the Northeastern Coast, East Anglia, the South Coast, Devon, Dorset and Cornwall, Wales, the Lake District etc. A wealth of activities to interest and occupy everyone and late July/August will usually be good weather and unlikely to be on a par with much of continental Europe.

Ok, you won't have the Louvre, Marienplatz or Anne Frank's house but you also won't have the queues and are the kids really going to be interested in any of that anyway?

Travelling to Europe with young children from somewhere like the US is tricky. The desire and temptation to see as much of the famous sights as possible,to experience as many countries and cultures as possible is understandable but you have to be realistic. We've found over the years that the best holidays have been those were we weren't rushing here, there and everywhere, trying to cram everything in. We didn't even go anywhere near the Eiffel Tower when in Paris, we saw it from a distance whilst having an excellent lunch, did it diminish our memory of it because we didn't climb it? No, in fact our experience was probably better, no waiting in line for hours, climbing the steps or squeezing into elevators. We had a perfect view of an icon, an excellent panorama of the city and a very good, enjoyable meal whilst taking it all in. Do I have any desire to return to Paris and climb the tower? No.

Besides, can there be anything more miserable than a major city's public transport in the middle of summer? The Tube, Paris' Metro, Rome's Metro? And with two young kids!!!

A multi stop route along France's coast, either the one flanked by the Bay of Biscay or the more northerly Brittany area would provide ample experience of a foreign country and dependant on route you can also dip into Spain or the Channel Islands or British mainland. Being on the coast provides a cooler experience during a heatwave (believe me, living on top of a hill less than a mile from the sea on the south coast of England makes a huge difference to temperature and comfort during hot weather) and renting cottages, villas etc along the way makes life with young children far easier. You don't need to introduce them to five or six different countries at that age, it mostly goes over their head and they'll often not remember what you hoped they'd remember.

You're young (I presume), your kids are young, assume you'll be back. We've been visiting the US every year for the last ten years ever since our youngest was two. With the exception of NYC when our youngest was three, none of those visits involved substantive time in cities (our youngest recalls very little about NYC other than FAO Schwarz with a giant Elmo, a Spongebob Squarepants icecream and the penguins at the zoo). Both of them have very strong memories about various theme parks, water parks, amazing pools and beaches but ask them about lunch at the oldest building in Savannah, GA and you'll receive a blank stare. The Liberty Bell in Philadelphia? No idea! Jamestown, VA? Nothing but ask them about the Spy Museum in Washington DC and they'll recall a huge amount of detail likewise the airboat ride through the Everglades and many other activities that wouldn't be the obvious choice in a major tourist destination.

Posted by
633 posts

You have received many good suggestions. Even when our kids were teens, we planned our three-week trip to include a full week in an apartment or cottage at each location, because packing everyone up and moving was such a strain. We chose locations that had a lot to offer (all of yours do) and allowed for 2-4 days of easy day trips.

Posted by
613 posts

Your kids are preschool age. Avoid the heat & crowds & go in October.

Posted by
36 posts

Thank you all for your detailed reply. We are coming from Dubai so from temperature from mid 40s to 30s should be some relief but lack of air conditioning in general and being out and about may pose some problem.

In terms of our interest, we would like a balance of nature and cities . Dont mind big parks (heard Munich has the largest park in europe) and sitting along water bodies. With kids this young, we have a limitation on hiking.

  1. How's Lucerne with kids? Is there too much uphill climbing involved?
  2. Paris we are planning couple of days in Disney and the rest in Paris proper.
  3. Are the European cities (and transportation there like bus/trains) above stroller friendly?
  4. How's Milan as a destination to be added instead of Munich? Any other Italian / German destination that i can consider given kids interest, july-aug temperatures?

kind regards

Posted by
50 posts

With regard to Switzerland, temperature such as 37 C are extremely rare, plus in Luzern and Zürich you have a lake to cool off. In Luzern there's the Lido near the Verkehrshaus (Traffic museum) to do so and the "Ufschötti", which is free and near the train station.
In general, the higher the altitude the cooler the temperature. That said, you could also go to Engelberg. There are several small lakes, for example the "Härzlisee" (http://www.brunni.ch/en/activities/summer-activities/haerzlisee-with-kitzeltrail/) which might appeal to your children and of course mount Titlis. You could base yourself in Luzern and take a day trip to Engelberg, kids travel for free with the family card on most trains, busses and ships. By the way, Luzern's old town, the lion monument, Kapellbrücke and lake doesn't involve any uphill climbing.

Posted by
8375 posts

If it were me, I'd skip Zurich and spend that time in the mountains - in the Lauterbrunnen Valley (too far for practical day trips from Luzern). Mt Pilatus from Luzern is a good day trip for kids. I'd skip Amsterdam and find someplace else around there to stay - maybe small towns on the Rhine.

Posted by
172 posts

I would definitely skip Zurich and spend time in the mountains near Interlaken. And I really would not enjoy Amsterdam for more than a day or so. Paris 2-3 days. And Munich, not so much. Think smaller towns/villages, especially along the Rhine and Mosel Rivers. Visit a castle or two. There are places in Switzerland where a luge ride would be fun although I have never had the opportunity to experience it myself. Have done the luge in Breckenridge, CO however. I think being around water, whether actually swimming or doing various boat tours might be appropriate. And, if you can. wait until September to travel in Europe to avoid the crowds and heat.

Posted by
36 posts

So here is what the final itinerary that we have thought about

Lucern / Interlaken 26-Jul-19 31-Jul-19 5 nights

Zurich 31-Jul-19 1-Aug-19 1 night

Munich 1 -Aug-19 4-Aug-19 3 nights

Amsterdam 4-Aug-19 8-Aug-19 4 nights

Disney Paris 8-Aug-19 11-Aug-19 3 nights

Paris City 11-Aug-19 14-Aug-19 3 nights

Questions:
How does the above plan look like? Too hectic or easily manageable?

I want to split Lucerne and Interlaken into 3 nights and 2 nights?
Where to stay in the Interlaken area? In Interlaken or Lauterbrunnen Valley? Where are more hotel/staying choices? costs?
Is it worthwhile to skip Munich and to replace it with Lake Geneva / Lausanne region?
Best way to go from Munich to Amsterdam if i go with Munich or from Geneva to Amsterdam ?

Thank you for your valuable feedback in advance.

regards

Posted by
839 posts

How are you traveling between cities? I apologize if I missed the details in the thread so far.
But, it is an hour flight Zurich to Munich so that would be one morning shot, and the kids disrupted. Similarly for Munich to Amsterdam. You have 4 nights allocated for Zurich and Munich but require three mornings of travel including two flights to do that and get to Amsterdam. That is a lot of moving for kids.

Lucerne is beautiful so stopping there can be great. Take the kids on a steamer ride around the lake. Picnic at the Rutli Meadows where the original alliance among the cantons was sworn. After that I suggest Lauterbrunnen because it is easy to get to from Lucerne, and it is in the valley maximizing flexibility for day trips such as to other villages/hike/funicular/gondola up to higher walking destinations. If I recall correctly, the main walking track above the Lauterbrunnen Valley to Murren is paved and would be good for strollers with bigger wheels.

Maybe extend the time in Lauterbrunnen or Lucerne and fly directly to Amsterdam.

Or, take the train west to Lausanne from Interlaken. It is a lovely place, although very hilly for strollers. There is a funicular up to the main part of the city though, and down to the lakeshore. Then on to Geneva and fly to Amsterdam.

Posted by
36 posts

Thank you for your reply. Some more basic questions about Switzerland

  1. If I base myself in Lucerne, can i still easily see Bernes Oberland. I have 6 nights, should i split 4 in Lucerne and 2 in Lauterbrunnen Valley or the main Interlaken? whichone is better?
  2. What is the deal with luggage on Swiss Trains? Do you get a luggage allowance like planes or we can take as much as we like. Travelling with two young kids, we will definitely not be very light on luggage. will have two strollers and luggage. Any tips on travelling light with kids in Switzerland?
  3. Any benefit in renting a car vs travelling on train in Switzerland? Parking cost?

This is my revised itinerary. How does it look. I have removed Munich and Zurich and added French side of Switzerland.

Lucern / Interlaken 26-Jul-19 1-Aug-19 6nights
Lausanne/Geneva 1-Aug-19 4-Aug-19 3nights
Amsterdam 4-Aug-19 9-Aug-19 5nights
Disney Paris 9-Aug-19 12-Aug-19 3nights
Paris City 12-Aug-19 15-Aug-19 3nights

Posted by
116 posts

Zurich is boring! Skip it. Instead consider London, there is a superfast train ride connecting Paris and London, not to mention there are dozens of cheap flights. Instead of Munich and Bavaria ( which is beautiful but nowhere near Italy), consider taking a flight/train to Venice. The Switzerland, Paris and amsterdam part of your trip is a fabulous idea!

Posted by
24 posts

If you are going to Amsterdam you might want to consider a day trip to Madurodam which is a mini Holland amusement park with miniature city buildings. You would need to take the train to Hague and then a tram. We visited a few years ago and thought was very unique. Your children might enjoy it.

Posted by
613 posts

We general reaction is that it is a waste of time, money, and effort to take kids to Europe.

Posted by
839 posts

Q: If I base myself in Lucerne, can i still easily see Bernese Oberland. I have 6 nights, should i split 4 in Lucerne and 2 in Lauterbrunnen Valley or the main Interlaken? which one is better?

A: Lucerne is "big city" and the Lauterbrunnen Valley is "small town." For kids I would get a taste of the city but mostly pick the small town and picnic my way around the valley. Interlaken is the old Spa town at the mouth of the scenic valleys - I would go directly up into the Valley to Lauterbrunnen.

Q: What is the deal with luggage on Swiss Trains? Do you get a luggage allowance like planes or we can take as much as we like. Traveling with two young kids, we will definitely not be very light on luggage. will have two strollers and luggage.

A: European trains in general have small luggage racks above the seats and have luggage storage areas at each end of the train cars. On local trains there is much less luggage room. But local trains may not be very full if you are lucky. People make a lot of allowances for parents with kids in my experience. Interlaken to Lausanne will be a high speed train which should have plenty of luggage space. "As much as you like?" Never. You will have the two strollers, The parents will have the day's backpacks with snacks, drinks, toys, diapers, changes of clothing, etc. And each adult will tow one suitcase and on top perhaps 1 or 2 car seats for the youngest family member(s) to sleep in on the train.

Q: Any tips on travelling light with kids in Switzerland?

A: The same tip that applies to traveling light with kids anywhere, do laundry more often. Kids nap, one parent goes and does the laundry. Favorite videos and music on a small tablet. Buy each kid's favorite toy a stretchy tether so it won't get lost.

Q: Any benefit in renting a car vs travelling on train in Switzerland? Parking cost?

A: Switzerland has great trains. I have never driven there. Trains allow little ones some room to roam without being tied down... This can be a problem of course... but you know your kids best. A car seems great, but the temptation will be to bring too much stuff like at home, and then you have to get it on and off the trains and planes.

Q: This is my revised itinerary. How does it look. I have removed Munich and Zurich and added French side of Switzerland.
Lucern / Interlaken 26-Jul-19 1-Aug-19 6nights
Lausanne/Geneva 1-Aug-19 4-Aug-19 3nights
Amsterdam 4-Aug-19 9-Aug-19 5nights
Disney Paris 9-Aug-19 12-Aug-19 3nights
Paris City 12-Aug-19 15-Aug-19 3nights

Geneva to Amsterdam is an 8 hour train trip - so fly if you can.
https://www.sbb.ch/en The other travel is doable by train, each in less than 3/4 hours.

With kids you travel at their speed. I like it. You will have a great time.

Posted by
36 posts

Thank you all for detailed replies. What kind of clothes should we pack for our selves and the boys . Do we need to keep any warm clothes for any of the cities we are visiting? Does it get chilly at night or in the mountains / near the lakes? Will shorts do or do you need long trousers and similarly short sleeves t shirts va long sleeves? We are planning to keep one light wind breaker for each of us
Thanks

Posted by
4255 posts

This can be a great travel learning experience for the 5 yr. old. Get him/her a tiny rolling suitcase and backpack and help him/her plan what to put in it so that he/she will learn early to carry(and eventually to pack with supervision) his own stuff.

Posted by
116 posts

You dont go to Switzerland for the cities - so no point in going to Geneva, Zurich, Bern etc. I say this as someone who has been to those cities. Another thing I do not understand is this fascination with Lucerne. Lucerne is good but has nothing to offer that you wont find in plenty in the Jungfrau region. Consider flying into Basel, it is a quick train ride from there to Lauterbrunnen. Because you are staying with kids, I would suggest basing yourself in Lauterbrunnen, it makes both sides of the valley easily accessible plus lots of food options and kid-friendly activities. Paris and a few other cities have flights going to Basel’s euroairport. Instead of spending 8 days in Switzerland, consider spending 4 days in the bernese oberland area with Lauterbrunnen as your base - one day to go to jungfraujoch, one day to do toboggan rides or other kids activities, one day to visit villages on other side of valley (murren/gimmelwald). And an extra day to do whatever you like.

with extra 4 days left, you could consider one of the following options -

1. Munich and bavaria
2. Munich/Salzubrg and austrian lake district

3 go to Rhine/Mosel via Frankfurt

4. London

Munich and Salzburg are super close and easy 2 hour train ride away from each other. Rent a car for a day and go tour the lake district. There are some awesome gelato/ ice cream places in the lake district, your kids will appreciate them

Posted by
116 posts

Need full pants and shoulder covering clothes for churches. If you stay in the swiss mountain towns like gimmelwald etc., know that it can get chilly at nights. Your mountain chalet will probably not have central heating so make sure they have a space heater or warm blankets for the night in case you or the kids need it. Paris also has a fast 3 hr train to Basel that runs only a few times a day (longer one runs frequently)

Posted by
36 posts

Thanks. A question. Is a day trip to Interlaken / Lauterbrunnen doable from Lucern.?

Posted by
116 posts

Lucerne to Interlaken is a 2 hour train ride. Then about 20 to 30 minutes to Lauterbrunnen. So it is doable. But since bernese oberland is the absolute highlight of Switzerland why would you rush through it? Spend at least 2 days.

Maybe you should rethink the routes a little bit. Tourist dollars are precious and you dont want to waste it on inefficient routs