17 Days Itinerary France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Germany

Sounds like my idea of Hell. You can not do this. It's physically impossible. Sorry to tell you what I'm sure you don't want to hear, but you did ask....I think your itinerary is a wild fantasy that has no resemblance to reality. At best, it's a prescription for utter misery. Time to get a clean sheet of paper out and try again. Be honest with yourself this time, and be realistic. You have 15 days, not 17. Pick 2-3 countries maximum. You can't do everything, so start by prioritizing: if you could only go to one place, where would it be? OK, if you could only go to 2? How about 3? That's about where you should stop. Others will surely chime in. Listen to them, unless you want to show your kids what a trainwreck looks like. Sorry to be a buzzkill, but somebody had to start.

To me it's not a vacation nor even a trip: it's a drive by guaranteed to bring stress to the whole family. David's advice is sound: pick your top one, two, or (maximum) three priorities and limit yourself. Spain is rather an outlier: out of the way for an efficient tour. If Paris is a must, then Paris, Florence, Venice and Riesa (apparently also a must due to the friends there?) might work. Gives the kids a taste of 3 cultures, which is a LOT in less than 3 weeks.

I appreciate your honesty. We are "ambitious" travelers and tend to move around a lot. The last time we visited Europe we went to 7 countries in 19 days and loved it. This time we will be bringing the children, so we may have to slow things down. I guess if we thought about cutting, it may be Austria. We certainly want it to be a wonderful first time experience for the kids.

You might want to rethink the night train from Munich to Dresden. I don't see any night train (i.e., a train with sleeping provisions) running between those cities. There are some day type train connections overnight, but these all have long stopovers (3-5 hrs) at intermediate stations in the middle of the night. In fact I see only three night trains arriving in Dresden on a typical morning, one coming from Berlin on the way to Prague, another from Budapest, the third from Zürich by way of Frankfurt and Weimar.

That itinerary makes my head hurt. An afternoon in Paris? Why even go to Germany? Basically a night in Munich, one in Riesa, and an afternoon in Berlin. All you'll be "seeing" will be the town welcome signs and the inside of whatever mode of transportation you choose. I also don't see the point in attemping Venice. In an afternoon you will barely get to your hotel, much less experience anything. You will get to truely experience Barcelona, Florence, and Salzburg but not much else. I am going to Europe in May for 15 days and only visiting 4 cities and I think that I'm pushing it. If this itinerary works for you, go for it, but I think you're going just to say you've been there, not to really enjoy and appreciate it.

No, I don't think you're being honest - either with yourself, or with us. I wouldn't say you were "ambitious travelers" - I'd say you were delusional (no disrespect intended - just calling 'em like I see 'em). Why use such a harsh term as "delusional"? This is why: 17 Days Itinerary... - No, you don't have 17 days. You have 14 days. You're counting the day you leave the US, the day you arrive, and the day you depart Europe. Be honest. Day 2 - Arrive in France, see Paris, take night train to Spain This is simply not connected to reality. You plan to arrive on a redeye flight, jetlagged, and you're going to "see Paris" then jump on a train to Spain. Exactly what part of Paris do you honestly think you're going to "see"? Hey kids, wake up, look, there's the Eiffel Tower! Now, let's get to the train station! THAT is going to be your experience. Honestly, why bother? So your kids can say they saw the Eiffel Tower from the window as they zoomed by? If you wanted to be realistic, you would fly to Barcelona, since that seems to be your actual destination. You think that by taking "night trains" you will magically gain an extra day. Have you ever tried to sleep on a train before? Your kids? Some people do, but many people can not. With a plan like yours, you are going to be exhausted from the moment you land in Paris and you will not have a chance to rest and feel human again until after you get back to Illinois. continues...

continuing... You seem to really want to spend time in Barcelona, Florence, and Salzburg. Now that actually would make a reasonable trip given the time you have - if you stripped off all of the crazy attempts to check off countries from a list. My recommendations: fly into Barcelona spend a few days there. Fly to northern Italy for a few days, see Florence, Pisa if you must, maybe Venice, then train to Salzburg for a few days. Train to Munich and fly home from there. Have your German friends meet you there, in Salzburg or Munich - otherwise, you're going to screw up your brief trip. It's close for them, if they're your good friends they will understand. Travel is all about prioritizing, and making choices. You seem to have not made any choices. I suggest you do. If you don't, the only lesson your kids will learn from this trip could be what not to do. Sorry if that's harsh, but I think what you're proposing is madness, and I'm trying to help - and I am someone who travels very "aggressively", moving quickly compared to many here. Good luck regardless.

Hi, With 5 countries in less than three full weeks, I suggest you need to drop at least two. If you had double the time, say 35-41 days, then I would say keep your present itinerary. As is I would say leave out southern France and Salzburg. From Munich-Dresden there's no need for a night train. Since you want to spend the day in Munich, take the late afternoon, 16:44 departure to Dresden, you'll arrive 22:01. Or, if you want to max out as much time in Munich as possible and are bent on a night train, that can be done too; take the Munich-Berlin CNL leaving 22:09, arr. 08:47 at Berlin Hbf., then you can choose which train to continue to Dresden, either direct or transfering in Leipzig. This involves a little back-tracking if you don't mind that. I myself would choose the second option since I like being in Munich and am familiar with all of the train stations, be it Berlin, Munich, Leipzig or Dresden Hbf. Your friends can meet you at Dresden Hbf in the center area. You have the option of a night train Florence-Munich, save Venice for next time.

Your itinerary is more like an episode of The Amazing Race than an actual vacation.

Hi again. I have read and re-read your posts and am most appreciative of your responses. Cutting is key and we will revise the itinerary accordingly. We'll probably start with cutting Salzburg since visiting Germany is a must (we hosted a student from Riesa last year and promised to visit her and her family in their hometown). So it's now 4 countries as part of our revised plan (with still more room for revision!) still too much? I was worried about flying from Chicago and then hopping on a night train to Spain. We may stay the night in Paris before heading to Spain after all. Your comments about the night train are important too I've been reading about night trains and find mixed reviews. Although we were planning on splurging for a sleeping car, it is still much different than getting rest in a hotel. Another specific question has anyone been to Cassis, France? It's a little fishing village and it looks charming. Our daughter is studying French and we'd like to spend a few days in Cassis before heading to Italy. I wish we had more time! Thanks again for your feedback.

Still too much. Cut out at least one more country. FOR YOUR SANITY. It's tough because these are all great places! But this is madness, seriously. I have stayed in Cassis twice and I hope to return for a week this summer- but it doesn't make any sense with the way you have this structured. Why are you even flying into Paris? You'll be spending money getting to your next destination, and on a trip like this, time is money as well. Even if a flight to longer-destination city is more expensive, do that instead. You could fly to Barcelona, spend several days there, perhaps even a couple of nights in a NEARBY small beach town (which is what Cassis is to Marsielle, basically). The smart thing to then do would be to take a cheap flight to Munich from Barcelona, spend a few days in Munich - Salzburg is an easy day trip or overnight trip from Munich so you could add it back - and then go see your friends, then spend a few nights in Berlin and head home. If you're insistent on doing Italy, you could base the trip around Barcelona-Florence-Munich then up to visit your friends and out. Fly from Barcelona to Florence. Trying to do more than that is a terrible idea. Just cut france out from your entire trip, or if you must spend time in france, cut italy out.

Danica, You say that the Germany part stays, good. Then on cutting more, I say omit Barcelona, save that for the another trip. This way go Paris-Marseilles (day) and stay in Cassis. You can still do Italy but reduce it to Venice, which gives you the night train option to Munich. Yes, stay the first night in Paris, no use boarding a train after a trans-atlantic flight. Do that on the first full day or 2nd full day, which I've done but certainly not on the arrival day. Keep in mind that after a night train experience you have the personalities of the other family members to contend with, depending on how they slept. I have no experience with a night train from Italy but if it's a CNL that is better. My night train experience is limited to Germany, Austria, France. What time is your flight home? Since this is in June, it'll be from Berlin-Brandenburg Airport, not Tegel? If your last full day is set aside for Berlin, I assume you'll take the train that morning Riesa-Berlin, takes a bit over two hours with a transfer in Leipzig, if the Leipzig-Berlin leg is on the ICE. Stay in the Berlin Hbf area where you have Meininger Hotel and Motel One... very close by. On the morning of day 17, take RB train at HBf to Berlin Brandenburg. Your trip can be done after shaving off a few places but still requires good planning and timing.