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17 days in Europe for the third summer in a row - help me improve this itinerary please

Hi! Have had the good fortune to be able to visit Europe regularly of late. Going to go again this summer, and in the early stages have an itinerary put together that is to my family's liking but not optimal. Please help with suggestion for improving it!

A few facts: Two active parents, one active 8 year old. Travelling in late August. We like bikes, culture/sightseeing but not in excess, being around local people living ordinary life. We like small historic cities and real rural villages with more than a tourist economy. We love good food, wine and beer. We are comfortable self-sufficient bike tourers, do it every trip with kid on trail-a-bike.

Here is what's sketched out so far:

Fly into Brussels at 9:15am. Train to center, Rent simple touring bikes. Lunch. Pedal a couple of hours to a nice small Belgian city (maybe Mechelen or Leuven).

5 nights riding in Belgium (including first night). Visiting towns like Mons, Lier, Veurne, Ghent. These towns are quite spread out so the itinerary isn't set, but these are the type of towns we are interested in visiting.

Back to Brussels first thing after 5th night, train or bike depending on where we are. Drop bikes. TGV to Paris (in 90 minutes! Fast!)

2 nights in Paris. This is short, but we've been before several times. Really our kid want to go more than we do. 8 year old will see the Eiffel Tower, eat a crepe, feed some pigeons, and maybe tourist-cruise the river for and hour and be good. We will all of course enjoy this brief city break.

Train to Tours. Rent bikes.

5 nights Cycling the Loire Valley - we like food and wine and quaint. As a reference we absolutely love Alsace from Strasbourg to Colmar, to the little wine villages. Which villages/cities should we stay in/visit? Which chateaus to see?

Early out the last morning. Fly to Munich or Innsbruck for Nantes or Paris. Hopefully early enough to rent a car to drive to our most beloved place in the Alps somewhere west of Fussen.

4 night in these Alps. It's a place that has never been mentioned to me on a forum (including here last year). It is beautifully set with real working alpine village, lifts for hiking, swimming lakes, clanging cowbells in the meadows, onion domed churches, gorgeous chunky granite massifs towering with alpenglow. Very affordable, no tour buses, and didn't encounter one person from an English speaking country in four days last year. Good tourist infrastructure too, just geared to local markets - food really good in particular. We've been to Berchtesgaden which is wonderful, and Berner OL which can't be matched for gazing upon giant mountains, but this place to us is preferable. I won't write the name here but if you PM me and will be discriminate about publicizing happy to tell you where!

Drive back to Munich or Innsbruck.

1 night Munich or Innsbruck. Fly out to USA.

So there it is as it stand. I don't like three things about it (at least). 1) I prefer the "mountain break" part of the trip to be in the middle of the trip, not at the end. It's the vacation from the vacation part, staying in one place for 4 night, cooking in, etc. But too much travel to get to our Alps spot and back to France again the tour the Loire. 2) in the same vein I really like the short big city visit (Paris) to be at the end of the trip. At this point we are fully adjusted to life in Europe and need some extra stimulation, and have the sense of home is coming soon so better rally and makes the most of it. I'd like to fly out of Paris and be there last. The travel day to the Alps West of Fussen is tough - we can do it but it's a grind of a day.

Any advice on how to reorder things? Should we ditch Belgium and start with a bike tour in Germany? Ditch our west of Fussen alpine paradise and try instead to find something as good in the French Alps out of Lyon or Geneva?

Any and all suggestions are most appreciated! Henry

Posted by
7175 posts

Would this work for you ??
Fly into Zurich or Munich
4 nights in the Alps
1 night in Lyon
5 nights cycling in the Loire Valley
2 nights in Paris
5 nights bike riding in Belgium
Fly out of Brussels

Posted by
1769 posts

I was at first puzzled by your reply David but then saw that you're an Aussie and so the itinerary is upside down.

made me LOL, or 707 to you :)

Posted by
1769 posts

no wait you're not just teasing - there's something interesting there - this route clips out the massive travel day in the middle by stopping in Lyon.

I'd rather not do Belgium at the end of the trip but rather as close to the height of summer as possible ... weather is such a gamble there, and being from Seattle we get quite enough gloom in our lives.

Posted by
7175 posts

Perhaps the rush of blood to my head from being 'upside down'.

There are direct TGV services from Lyon to Brussels.
Then back to Loire Valley and finish in Paris.

Would that work ??

Posted by
1769 posts

David what would work fabulously would be if we TGVed from Brussels to Lyon or Geneva, drove to the perfect village in the perfect alpine valley in France, then did the Loire bike ride and Paris at the end flying out from there.

But it's a big if - my teutonic soul weeps nostalgic at the geranium gemutlichheit of Tirol - if I could find a gorgeous real pastoral village in the French Alps with a swimming lake, and incredible hiking and mountain biking I could let go of my Tirolean paradise :) Then I'd have an ideal itinerary ....

Posted by
96 posts

Several points:
1. I have done lots of cycling in Belgium. I would suggest taking a train direct from the airport to Ghent and pick up your bike there. If no rentals there, you could carry on by train to Bruges as I have seen plenty of bike rental shops there. This will get you into the countryside quickly and from Ghent there are bike paths along almost every canal.
Check out crazyguyonabike.com or cycling uk as they both have good forums and trip logs.
2. Take train to Tours. It will be a full day on the train, transferring through Paris. Cycle in a loop ending back at Tours.
3. Rent a car in Tours and drive through Burgundy to French Alps. Lots of people on this site like Chamonix. There are many small villages in the area.
4. Drive back to Tours, drop off the car and train to Paris.
5. Visit Paris and fly home.
Enjoy the cycling. I think it is great that your family is cycling together.

Posted by
14507 posts

Hi,

Take the Thalys train from Brussels to Paris Nord, then at Gare de Lyon take the TGV to Lyon. You have a number of ways getting from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon,..bus, Metro, taxi, RER, all available from Nord.

Posted by
1769 posts

Alan many great tips! Thanks very much. Will look into going straight to Ghent or some other smaller place straight from the Brussels airport.

I've traveled in Europe many different ways, and have found cycling to be my favorite in the good weather parts of the year! The family loves it too. We don't do huge distances - 20-40 miles a day generally in practically flat places only. We don't only ride bikes. But riding 2/3's of the days of a trip for 2 to 4 hours a day has an incredibly positive effect on the trip. Everyone is somehow magically happy and relaxed all day every day and travel hassles are more easily taken in stride. I think the daily moderate exercise outside settles the brain chemistry to calm/happy/energized - zero of the typical family squabbles on day 9 when you're typically feeling a bit ragged. We beat jet lag extremely quickly and sleep much better in the beginning of the trip. We see sight along the route and when we get to our destination but we don't feel obligated to rush to do too many things. We get a good look at people living their everyday lives and interact with them more, really take in the beauty and rhythms of a place. Remarkably, we spend very little money, not as an exercise in thrift but because we just feel so content with the journey being the destination. We eat as we please (but feel zero compulsion to eat out of boredom or stress) and lose a couple of lbs by the time we return home.

So yes, love the riding with the family! I couldn't more highly recommend that even people of not great fitness try it, the ubiquitous dead-flat, wind at back, beauty and culture rich Danube tour first.

Thanks again for the tips!

Posted by
1769 posts

David thank you - both of those places, particularly Le Grand Bornand, look similar to the place in Tirol we love so much. Both are kind of the same set up - side roads leading to valleys farther forward in the range than the more visited ones that sit at the bases of the highest peaks. More meadows and broader valleys with slightly more rounded hills where you can nontheless hike up out of the sub-alpine into to the alpine above tree line. Working agricultural and dairy culture in the snow free months. Pretty real old villages where people live and work.

Nice pull mate - will take a good hard look as this would solve all of my planning "problems."

Posted by
7175 posts

The online pictures made me want to break out in my best Julie Andrews. Le Chinaillon lloks best accessed thru Geneva or Annecy.

Posted by
7658 posts

My Wife and I are avid bike riders. I do more long distance myself, usually with friends. Have done the Bike Ride Across Georgia and similar rides in Florida, NC and Virginia. Most of these organized rides do about 60 miles a day.

Of course, you have an 8 year old, that makes a difference. Still, you can get in some good riding. I know there are barge and biking tours that run in the Loire Valley that look great, but they are expensive.

Personally, I don't want to spend too much time cycling since, if I pay a lot for Wife and I to fly to Europe, I want to see things. I can exercise at home. However, we have done bike tours of cities were we felt it was safe. I can't imaging trying to bike in Rome without being run over.

The Loire Valley is wonderful. The scenery is great and there are lots of Chateau to visit. The valley is cheaper than Paris and people very friendly. We stayed in Blois when we visited the Loire.

Not sure where you are renting your bikes, but finding good road bikes might be a challenge. Do you plan a tandem for your 8 year old?

Posted by
1769 posts

Geovagriffith my kid is 4'6" tall and weighs 65 lbs. The past two trips I towed a Weehoo recumbent trail-a-bike; this trip I plan to use either a regular trail-a-bike (Burley Piccolo if possible) or a trail-bar set up (probably the Follow-Me) so that kid can sometimes ride independently and mostly get an assist from dad.

With the Weehoo we've days up to 50 miles of flat terrain tired at the end but doable - kid's pedal input really does help.

But I would do a tandem if there are tandems available that will fit us both - I'm 6'3". Maybe 5'6" mom could pilot a tandem that would fit them both and and I could mule our stuff ...

Anyway I'll check it out, thanks for the tip

Posted by
1769 posts

I know I'm a fan of both :) Add bikes and mountains and I'm putty.

Maybe we need to rip off the band-aid and just head to the beach or something instead of trying to make the French Alps something they aren't .... Or suck up several extra hours of travel and let the magnet pull us back to the place we love.