17-Day Father-Son Europe trip (Arrive Barcelona and Leave from Amsterdam)

Have you, or your sons, ever been to Europe before?

Besides hiking (and visiting friends), what are your/your sons' interests/non-interests?

Southern Europe (Barcelona, Venice) can be quite hot in August. Crowded, too. Do you do OK in real heat (and crowds)? There's usually a little less heat further north.

Check ticket prices/availability carefully - the cheap seats tend to go quickly. And be sure you know the rules for any fare (luggage, etc.) - there are "gotchas" when flying these low cost carriers.

Sounds like a fun trip. I hate to see you having to deal with so many airports, but you have a lot of ground to cover, and flying may well be the best option.

I have no recent experience hiking in Switzerland or Germany so will only comment that Switzerland is painfully expensive for lodgings, trains and food. And Alpine weather is really, really fickle. You could easily find yourself with 3 days of weather not suitable for hiking. Since you have so little time for that segment of your trip, I'd consider hiking in Germany or the Italian Dolomites, which are much more affordable. I believe the Dolomites tend to have more reliable weather, too, but I have not researched that.

Major plus for the Dolomites: The train line from Venice to Munich runs through Bolzano, the valley city that's the jumping-off point for quick bus trips up into the mountains. The usual recommendation is for hikers to stay up in a town like Ortisei. Bolzano has a gorgeous historic area as well as the museum housing Otzi, the Iceman, but it is not itself in the Dolomites. Incidentally, this is an interesting part of Italy where the Austrian influence is very strong.

What I don't know is how hard it may be to find lodgings in any of these mountain areas for late July. That's prime vacation season, and the mountains are extremely popular destinations.

With respect to flights in and out of Venice: Be sure they are actually using the Venice airport. Some use Treviso, which is much farther away. RyanAir is notorious for doing that. Also, it appears that you are considering a very early flight from Venice to Munich. Such departure times require private transportation to the airport (even if it's VCE), and that is very costly. (We're talking water-taxis here.) Not to mention the possibility of a 2 or 3 AM wake-up call.

There's also a potential airport issue in Barcelona--some flights actually use the Girona Airport, which is much harder to reach from Barcelona. Girona happens to be a really great place, but you will be running around like madmen trying to see as much as you can in Barcelona; there's no time for a side-trip to Girona.

I don't know whether an Airbnb-thpe arrangement is a great idea in Barcelona at this point. The city has been trying to crack down on illegal/unregistered rentals. I haven't kept up with the status of those efforts. We have at least two regular posters who live in Barcelona; with luck, they'll spot this thread and comment.

A bunch of us have opinions about what to see in Barcelona (just two full days--arrgh!), but I think it's best to settle on the basic itinerary before worrying about sights in your two gateway cities.

Edited to add: Those great fares you've found for flights within Europe are absolutely subject to change. They can double, triple, or quadruple quite quickly as others purchase tickets, so you should try to pin those details down ASAP, along with lodgings in the mountains. I use booking.com for most of my lodgings because of the comvenience of seeing so manyh of the possibilities in one place. The reviews and photos are very helpful. You can always look for the official website and try to book directly when you've found a good possibility.

Garmisch-Partenkirchen is a short ( 1 hour) train ride away from Munich. Great hiking opportunities for you and your sons along with good infrastructure. HIke the gorge, take a gondola up into the mountains and hike down. Take the cog railway up the Zugspitze. Summer luge is a bit of a blast as well. Many bike paths and easy to rent bike for further exploring.

Many lodging choices and good local buses.

Q. Does anyones see any issues with flying as I have proposed? Would a train be preferable?

A. No issues. You should travel light to do the trip with a carry on bag that complies with each airlines allowance.
Consider doing laundry at your friends house or a couple of times. You have some long distance so a train to me would not be preferable.

Q. While I would like to go to Venice (or some other city in Italy) I also have considered travelling from Barcelona through Switzerland towards Munich (bypassing Venice). I think this may give us better hiking than I would get travelling in car for three days from Munich. Perhaps a train or plane from Barcelona to Geneva and then hikes in Zermatt or Verbier would be better?

A. I am not too familiar but you would be closer to some hiking in the Austrian Alps from Munich than going to Switzerland.
Ask your friend in Munich about that. And then maybe you can fly from Austria to Amsterdam.

Q. in Barcelona, Venice and Amsterdam I was considering renting apartments through VRBO/Homeaway or AirBnB. I always travel this way in the US/caribbean/Central America. Any concerns doing so in Europe? Would you suggest hotels instead?

A. I've been to Europe 4 times in last 12 months (Italy, Germany, Switzerland, UK, France, Spain, and the Netherlands) and have used booking.com for independent hotels and stayed in the Ibis Hotel chain with success regularly.

hey marc
be very careful about airbnb, homeaway and vrbo. lots of issues with rental, make sure it's registered with city and legal. some of the big european cities are fighting it. best to read up on them. i've used booking.com with no issues, read the fine print., put in your filters and see what's available. in amsterdam i used citymundo.com and houseboatrental.nl or houseboathotel.nl. stayed in one last year, it was nice. cross-pollinate.com is another, you may have slim pickins since busy during summer, maddening crowds and it will be hot. since italy for older son, check bolzano or lake garda, some place northern italy and compare train or flight costs and length. let us know what you decide or come back for more questions and answers.
aloha

I have been to Europe several times with teens, and in particular, hiking in Switzerland.
Zermatt is interesting, but in my experience, not as good as the Lauterbrunnen/Grindelwald region. If the Matterhorn is covered in clouds (often), it loses a lot, whereas in Lauterbrunnen, if the peaks are covered, there is still a lot to look at. (Trummelbach Falls for one.)

Personally, I'd spend at least 3 days in the Laut./Grindelwald area. There's enough to do for 10 days. I'll send you the maps and pics of our favorite dozen hikes in the area, and you can see for yourself. Click on your name in the upper right to read your forum mail.

Thank you all for the great info and prompt response.
We don't mind the heat but I'm very happy to avoid crowds when possible. I have heard Venice is particularly bad for heat/crowds and smell in late summer. The flights I found were from Barcelona (not Girona) to Venice (Marco Polo/VCE).

In my initial itinerary we have 3 full days in Barcelona. Perhaps it may be better to extend our stay in Barcelona to 5 or 6 days, skip Venice and then go directly to Munich? I see flights from Barcelona to Munich for $100. I could then spend 5-6 days travelling and hiking through the German/Swiss/Italian Alps starting from Munich. It is only 3.5hrs by car from Munich to Bolzano (4hr by train). If we go by car, we could pass through Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Zugspitze along the way.

As we travel through the Alps hiking, would it be preferable to rent a car or go by train? I like the simplicity of the train but would it be more difficult to get to lodging and to hiking trails without a car? Also, if I rent a car in Munich I would likely have to return to Munich to avoid one-way fees on the rental. If I don't rent a car I could travel to Bolzano by train - hike the Dolomites - then continue by train on to Verona, Italy and then catch a flight back to Amsterdam from Verona or Treviso.

Do you think a less ambitious travel schedule as outlined below makes more sense than my original?

• Day 1: Arrive Barcelona 11pm
• Day 2-6: Barcelona (6 full days in Barcelona)
• Day 7: Flight from Barcelona to Munich ($100 each)
• Day 8-9: Munich (2 full days in Munich with friend)
• Day 10-14: (5 full days driving/hiking in Alps)
• ----- Alternative #1: Rent car in Munich - Drive through Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Zugspitze to Dolomites and return to Munich to return car and fly back to Amsterdam
• ----- Alternative #2: Train to Bolzano, Italy (4 hrs), hike Dolomites for 2 days continue to Verona/Lake Garda (2 days)
• Day 15: Flight from Munich to Amsterdam ($140 each), or Flight from Verona or Treviso to Amsterdam ($270 each).
• Day 16-17: 1.5 days in Amsterdam

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Stick with part of the original plan. Why all of sudden do you think you want to spend 6 days in Barcelona and skip Venice. If you could skip Munich that would solve everything. It is the weakest of all the destinations that you want to go to. Why not meet your buddy somewhere else more interesting to the people you are traveling with like in the alpes and skip Munich altogether? You will be glad you did maybe.

There's tons to do in Barcelona, plus a lot of great day-trips, including to Montserrat with its walking/hiking possibilities. Although I love Venice (Munich not as much), I much prefer more time in fewer destinations, because you get to see more if you're not churning hotels and dealing with so many airports. Just so long as I'm not stuck in an out-of-the-way backwater with poor public-transportation links for day-trips. I would never discourage 6 days in Barcelona, though if you're unlucky with the humidity the weather may be a little rough. August 2016 reminded me somewhat of Washington DC, but it was not the oppressive heat of mid-summer Sicily and Puglia.

Within the Dolomites, at least, it's easy to get to hiking spots via bus and lift, but a car makes you more mobile and would allow you to see a larger area. In this case, since your trip is coming up soon, it may also be extremely helpful in allowing you to stay in lodgings that are a bit off the public-bus routes. You are right about the drop-charge, though: It will probably necessitate returning the car to the country of origin.

I love museums and history, so for me your trip does not have enough time in Amsterdam. And I agree with the poster who said two days in Barcelona was not enough. I've been to both of those cities; however, I've never been to Venice so I don't feel comfortable recommending that you skip it.

Maybe the best suggestion I can make is to read about your potential locations and how much there is at each one that appeals to you. And tell yourself that you'll be back and will see more another time.