15 days - 4 Countries - Help me finalize Itinerary

Ten places in fifteen days? You'll spend as much time on the trains as you will exploring each town.

I suggest you cut the number of places in half - focus on a smaller region, include some smaller places. Maybe do just Italy and Switzerland or Italy and Barcelona, something like that.

Use the website www.bahn.com to check train routes between cities, to see if your train connections are feasible.

Off the top of my head I would say cut some things/places. But actually with more thought I would say you need to give us an idea of how long you're thinking about spending in each of these places - 1, 2, 3 days, a couple of hours, 1/2 a day, etc, in order for us to say whether it's too much. And when you say 15 days is that 15 full days or does it include arrival and departure days, which actually gives you 13 days? Are you taking into account the travel time between cities or just assuming it's a quick trip. Some places can be close together on a map but take a long time in travel to get to and from.

Thanks Andrew for the train website i shall check it out.

Hi Nancy, thanks for the reply.
Yes it's full 15 days. Excluding the travel from/to USA.

You brought up a good point, we just wanted to visit tourist spots, eat local food, take some pictures and move on. will this be too much is what we are thinking ..

So here is what i thought:

Paris & Versailles - 3 Nights.
Geneva - 1 Nights
Lucerne - 2 Nights
Interlaken - 2 Nights
Milan - 1 Nights
Venice - 2 Nights
Rome - 1 Nights
Pisa - Few hours
Barcelona - 2 Nights

When I looked at the itinerary, I thought that it seemed like a whole lot of moving around. And then I saw that you are first time travelers and have a very young child. I am a mom of four and we took our kids a lot of places and people thought we were crazy. I'm not sure how well your child travels, but even to me, it sure seems like its an awful lot for the child and for you. Just in comparison, I spent January 2017 in Europe with my college aged daughters. We had about 24 days (excluding travel to and from Europe) and we went to 10 cities (and two were day trips, Salzburg to Munich for a day and Luzern to Bern for a day). We had a fabulous time, but at the end of the trip, one of the girls commented that it was like we were on The Amazing Race. We wouldn't change anything but we were three adults moving at that pace.

My husband and I were at Versailles at the end of September and it was super crowded. I'm not sure its a place for a little one that probably likes to do a lot of moving around. I do think Switzerland is a good choice for a young family, especially Lucerne and Interlaken area (I'd stay in Lauterbrunnen). I've never been to Italy so I can't comment on that. I like Barcelona, but you aren't really giving it much time for the effort that it takes to get there. I'd drop it unless you have already made your air arrangements.

You have too many different hotels, which means a lot of time wasted unpackimg and packing as you move from city to city. One- and two-night stops are tiring even if you aren't traveling with a very young child whose gear you have to wrangle. For the amount of time you have I'd recommend two countries rather than four.

Traveling in and out of Switzerland tends to take longer than the map suggests because of the terrain. It is also an extremely expensive country, so be sure you're OK with the hotel rates and train fares before committing to it. In any case, stay in Lauterbrunnen or one of the higher villsges (like Murren) rather than Interlaken. And I'd skip Geneva.

You're giving yourself just one full day in Paris; the arrival day won't be worth much because of sleep deprivation and jetlag, and Versailles takes a lot of time. As your first stop it needs at least one extra day (or drop Versailles, which from all reports is a mob scene).

Going to Rome for one night really isn't worth it, and Pisa is not one of Italy's top destinations. Nor is Milan, but I assume you especially want to see the Duomo and The Last Supper. I'd drop Pisa and Rome (geograpically inconvenient) from this trip. See them when you have more time for Italy.

You'll probably need to fly to get from Italy to Barcelona in a reasonable period of time, but even so, you'll end up with only about 1-1/2 days there, and for most people the city deserves at least 4 nights. I assume you chose it because of an interest in the modernista architecture. Visiting the interiors of those sites requires a structured trip because the ticket lines are too long to simply show up at each site and buy a ticket on the spot. You cannot just run from site to site, squeezing in 5 or 6 sites per day, because you don't know how much time you'll want to spend at each one and how long it will take to teavel between them. That means the schedule needs to be padded.

Thank you, julesmenssen.

I shall re-consider Versailles as you mentioned, but my whole point of going in September was to avoid the crowd. :(

Yes Switzerland seems to be more luring but it's too expensive as far as i have read.

Do you recommend carrying a stroller around ? If it will help or be a burden to carry?

I will make this comment on the Italy portion of your junket.

Skip Milan and give Rome at least 2 nights. Are you flying from Pisa to Barcelona? If not, you have an awful lot backtracking to deal with.

My other comment is, you have too many place in too few days; however you say you just want to take a few photos, grab a bite to eat and hit the road, so you have devised a perfect itinerary to do just that.

I hope you enjoy your trip.

What site are you going to see in Geneva? I would cut that stop and Pisa is kind of going at of your way. And don't go by hearsay you should look at how much train tickets cost in Switzerland

Switzerland, as has already been stated is eye-wateringly expensive, as is Venice. Venice has lots of narrow bridges with lots of steps, so I wouldn’t want to be carrying a pushchair up and down all day.

With your timescale and a 22 month old child, I would opt for 3 bases maximum and spend longer in each, to avoid the upheaval of moving on every other day. I would pick Paris for a week then Rome and Barcelona.

I will be vicious. No one night stays, and try to avoid 2 night stays. Geneva is not worth it, and Pisa is only worth a few hours if you are passing. You don't have time for both Luzern and the Berner Oberland (Interlaken). I would suggest:

• Paris & Versailles - 4 Nights.
• Train to Luzern - 2 Nights. Chill out with lake trips and mountain trips
• Train Venice - 2 Nights
• Train Rome - 3 Nights
• Fly Barcelona - 3 Nights

That makes 14 nights, same as your plan. That is still a lot of travelling.
Alternative: Luzern 3N, Barcellona 2N

Some basics:

The day of arrival is often a jet-lagged haze. You can't assume you or your baby will stay awake for all of it, so you should never plan any major sightseeing for the arrival day.

Two nights in a place equals one full day. One night is less than a full day.

You lose a half day, end to end, when you change locations, even close ones (say, Luzern to Interlaken). For further-flung ones, you lose even more time. If you are not familiar with trains, you will have a bit of a learning curve. And do not underestimate the adjustment you make in each new place - different language, learning how to get around, etc.

I'm an adult who travels alone, and your original proposed trip would be a nightmare for me - more time spent getting from place to place than actually seeing anything. Chris F's itinerary is far better, but would still be much more than I'd want to do - particularly with a baby.

Figure out which places are most important - not the ones you're going to just because "everyone" goes there, but the ones you really want to see. Then see four (at most five) of them, making sure before you finalize your places that they connect well. A common beginner mistake is to choose great places that have complex or time-consuming connections - like Italy and Spain, which requires a flight or all day on trains. A second beginner mistake is the opposite: choosing places just because of how they connect rather than because they're worth seeing - like stopping in Geneva just because it gets direct trains from Paris (if you're going to spend Swiss prices, you want to be in the scenic parts of the country).

Re Versailles. I have only gone to Europe in September and January. From what I am told, September is much less busy than summer. But it is still quite busy. If you have your heart set on Versailles, you could consider going for the gardens only, aim for a weekday, and/or get there at least a half hour maybe even 45-min to an hour before opening so that you can stay ahead of the crowds.

I would think you'd HAVE to have a stroller. Some of them fold up really small. That said, I would guess that there are a lot of places including Versailles that would require you to check it. But, I would have wanted a stroller to walk around the towns. My last two are twins, so we ended up bringing two fold up strollers when we traveled. We called them "umbrella" strollers if the term is still used.

There are things to help with costs in Switzerland. Local transportation seems to always be free with your accommodations. Hiking is free (except for any transportation necessary to get you to the hike) If you use Airbnb you can cook some dinners in. By the end of the day, sometimes I welcomed eating in. You could do picnic lunches (and picnic breakfasts in your room/apartment) The Coop stores are fantastic for bakery, cheese, snacks, chocolate, wine, juice, etc. They seem to be almost everywhere (except I never saw one in Luzern, but they have to be there, if not there are other grocery stores). There is one in Lauterbrunnen, Murren and Wengen.

we just wanted to visit tourist spots, eat local food, take some pictures and move on. will this be too much is what we are thinking

Don't mean to be Debbie Downer and rain on your parade, just offering food for thought. Even though it sounds as if you just want a once over lightly, in my opinion it is still just too much.

First, no one night stays. Second, keep two night stays to a minimum. Third, try for three or four night stays with day trips from those locations.

The reason for offering that thought is this: It almost always takes longer to change locations than anticipated even when everything goes well (and often times it doesn't). It's not just the actual travel time, its the packing up, checking out, getting to the train station, finding the track and waiting for the train. Then, upon arrival, you have to clear the terminal, get a taxi, get to your hotel, check in (if your room is ready), and unpack to some degree.

You want good memories of unique sights, good food, good wine, and people you'll meet. I'm afraid with your plans you'll only have blurred memories of taxi rides, train stations, and riding the rails.

What you are proposing is doable and I wish you well if you proceed. But it might be wise to consider scaling way back on the itinerary.

Here is a word of warning from an experienced mom. Not to make you nervous or change any plans, but you've picked some cities that have a bit of a reputation for pick pocketers. (Paris, Rome, Barcelona) I like to think of myself as very careful and experienced, yet we had a phone lifted from a pocket in Barcelona. I know from experience of traveling with little ones, sometimes you can get pretty distracted with logistics with a child or the needs from a child. Please try to still be mindful of your valuables. Again, I wouldn't change anything, in fact I adore Paris and loved Barcelona, just be careful. Yet, also know in terms of personal safety, these cities are safer than many in the U.S.

Here is my suggested revised itinerary

Paris, FR and Versailles, FR 5 days

Lucerne, CH and Interlaken, CH 3 days

Venice, IT 2 days
Rome, IT 5 days

My wife and I did a couple of 8-10 day trips with our oldest when he was 1-year old. One to Switzerland and one to Italy. But, we were starting from within Europe. With a toddler, plan on more time when visiting each particular sight. Also, go to bed and wake up early. An early-to-rise schedule is actually quite ideal for a autumn-time trip and will likely fit well with your toddler's schedule. And, invest in a solid stroller/pushchair for the trip, if you don't have one. Consider a jogging stroller. It will navigate cobblestone roads, uneven sidewalks, and trails much better than a regular stroller and can carry more child gear and food.

My perspective is that you may have ruled out Italy by choosing Barcelona as your exit point. Also, with a toddler, you don't want to have to worry about the hassle of moving around with your luggage and child gear too much and you want to focus on home bases for your accommodations. Train travel back to your hotel is actually great family time and nap time.

Focus on Paris, Switzerland, southern France, and Barcelona. Good mix of great cities, beautiful scenery, and diverse adventures. Here's what I would do with a fast-paced Paris-->Barcelona itinerary with a toddler:

9/24 - arrive Paris. Walk and explore the neighborhood near your hotel for a couple of hours to help with the jet lag. May be enough time to visit a sight.

9/24 to 9/28 - Paris (4 nights) 2 days for the Paris highlights and day-trip to Versailles.

9/28 - Train to Bern. Plan for about 4 hours on the train.
9/28 to 10/2 - Bern (4 nights)
Day-trips to: (1) Bernese-Oberland, focus on Lauterbrunnen Valley, Murren, Gimmelwald, and Schilthorn (about 3 hours on the train round-trip); (2) Luzern (about 2 hours train, round-trip). (3) Consider the longer day-trip to Zermatt (about 4 hours train round-trip) or a second trip to Bernese-Oberland, focusing on the other side of Lauterbrunnen Valley - Kleine Scheidegg, Wengen.

10/2 - Train to Geneva and consider to stop in Lausanne en route. Plan on 2 hours on the train.
Rent a car in Geneva city. Drive to Chamonix - plan on about 1-hour drive to Chamonix.
(Or, train from Bern to Chamonix, via Lausanne, skipping Geneva - about 3.5-4 hours).
Chamonix - 10/2 to 10/3 (1 night). Consider to take the Mont Blanc Skyway tram to Courmayeur, Italy and back.

10/3 - Drive to Provence - plan on 4+ hours driving. (or, train and bus to Provence via Geneva. Plan on 5.5 hours).
10/3 to 10/6 - Provence - stay in Arles (3 nights). If you train, it's likely more convenient to base out of Avignon. In addition to Arles, day-trip to Pont du Gard and Avignon and consider Les Baux and the Cotes du Rhone villages. Easier by car, especially with a toddler.

10/6 - Drive to Perpignan, France and consider to visit Carcassonne en route. Plan on about 3.5-4 hours drive-time from Provence. Drop car in Perpignan. In October, you should be able to get the rental car from Geneva to Perpignan for about $150-200. If you drop the car off in Barcelona, add $1,000! You don't experience the same cross-country drop-off charges when you pick up in Geneva and drop-off in France.
Then train from Perpignan to Barcelona. Plan on about 3 hours for the train portion. If you don't rent a car, train/bus from Avignon to Barcelona. Plan on 6-7 hours.

Barcelona - 10/6 to 10/9 (3 nights)

10/9 - flight home.

Save Italy for another trip.

Thank you everybody, for taking time out to reply. Here are my replies to each of you.

@joe32F - Yes i think i will be flying from Rome to Barcelona instead. Pisa i might skip or visit before coming to Rome.

@Jennifer - We would really like to visit Switzerland. My Final Itinerary might skip some places from the original i proposed.

@Chris F - Noted. No one night stays. I like your revised Itinerary but i don't want to spend too much time in Rome, Barcelona. Yes, Pisa is just to pass by to see the leaning tower.

@Harold - yes, Arrival day is just to check-in, relax, feel Paris and visit 1 place only if time & health permits. To get familiar with trains, language - i got 3 months more to learn from videos and from you guys on the forums :)

@julesmenssen - yeah looks like i might put Versailles in "MayBe" list. Thank you for the stroller recommendations. I got one ! That's a good tip to know
that Swiss local transportation is free with accommodations. Yes Airbnb is a good option which i shall check.

@TC - Yes, 3, 4 night stays with day trips is what i should be thinking as well. Although, it sounds very long work to unpack, check out, get to train stations .... come back .. .check-in hotel again, does it really take that time once you are familiar of things ? I understand that it might be confusing first time, but then i should be able to adapt it.

@julesmenssen - Glad i heard that from you to be 100% sure this is real. I saw travel videos which always mentions this. I shall be very careful.

@bradleysmith1212 - Thanks for some good suggestions with regards to early day start, stroller etc. I like your Itinerary but i would not totally exclude Italy. I really your suggestion on staying in Bern for 4 nights, so that i can do day trips instead.

For first time travelers, especially with a toddler, I would agree with the other recommendations to drop Italy. You don't have time to do it justice. It is worth 15 days all on it's own-and Rome needs 3 days minimum. One night stays are really more of a pain than anything, with all the packing/unpacking etc.
I like the idea of focusing on France, Switzerland and Spain. You should plan to do Italy on the next trip, your child will love it when they are older and can really enjoy the pizza and gelato-and of course some of the art and culture. :)

I like Bradley's proposed itinerary though I would change Bern to Luzern and do the daytrips from there unless there is something I don't know about train connections.

Ferrin - I'd like the idea for my kid. But my kid is going to go world tour in future anyways .. haha :) And also, we have so many other side of the world to travel to ..

@julesmenssen - i shall compare both Bern and Luzern . Thanks.

I"ll be even more of Debbie Downer and suggest that you brutally cut the itinerary to only 2 cities. Fly into city A, fly or train to city B, and then fly home from city B.

All that moving around in your trip sounds exhausting for me as a solo traveler. I think it would be too much for even a student backpacker. It sounds like this is your first trip and you're looking to get a taste of a lot of places. I'm afraid you might find yourself with indigestion as you face yet another train ride, packing, unpacking, checking in and checking out.

For example, with a week in Paris, you could do Versailles as a day trip and then plan a relaxing day for the next day Also,with more time in a city, you won't feel bad if your toddler gets tired and cranky and you need to nap during afternoon sightseeing time as you'll have time to still get to your top attractions.

Just my .02 cents as I'm aware this probably isn't what you wanted to hear.

Would visiting Milan worth, or instead visiting Florence is a better idea ?

Between the two choices, definitely Florence. Also makes Pisa a bit easier to do a as side trip on your way to Rome

does it really take that time once you are familiar of things ?

Yes, because every city, hotel location, check in / out process, and train station location is different. While you may get into a routine with regard to packing and unpacking, the rest of it will be close to brand new each time. Just something to consider.

And, to add to the above, European streets aren't marked like in the United States, They're not on grids and it isn't easy to find out that you're at the corner of First and Main. Even when using a mapping app, it is still easy to make mistakes and finding your way around can often take longer than you'd expect.

If your heart is set on Italy and you can manage the Rome-Barcelona flight, I suggest you skip Chamonix and Provence. Focus on Florence and Rome. You don't have time for Milano or Venice, even if you only want to experience the Florence and Rome highlights.

10/2 - Train from Switzerland (Bern?) to Florence. Plan on about 6 hours on the train and take the early train - about 7:30 or 8am. Arrive by 1 or 2pm that afternoon.
Florence, Italy - 10/2 to 10/3 (1 night). You will only have the afternoon/evening on 10/2 and morning/early afternoon to hit the highlights of Florence. Read RS' info on Florence and intricately plan the details. You can see the highlights in this time period, but it will be crazy (and should be fun). The jogging stroller comes in especially handy in Italy.

10/3 - Train to Rome - about 1.5 hours. I suggest you plan to take the late afternoon train - after 4pm. This way, you can still squeeze in the highlights of Florence with just 1 night - the evening of 10/2 and most of the day 10/3.
10/3 to 10/6 - Rome (3 nights). You get all day 10/4 and 10/5 in Rome - and you will need just to hit the Colosseum, Trevi Fountain and Vatican City.

10/6 - Fly from Rome to Barcelona. Despite the 2-hour direct flight, plan on at least 6-7 hours of "travel." You need to account for checking out of your hotel, travel to the airport, checking into the flight, airport security, flight time, arriving in Barcelona and getting your bearings, travel from the airport to your new hotel, etc.

Barcelona - 10/6 to 10/9 (3 nights). All day 10/7 and 10/8 in Barcelona.
10/9 - flight home.

Fast-paced European itineraries can be a blast, even with a little one. But, prepare for a couple of unexpected bouts of exhaustion. You will need a vacation from your vacation when your return home. But, to see Paris, Switzerland, Florence and Rome, and Barcelona over 2 weeks is doable, albeit a little crazy...and makes me a little jealous.

I've been to Italy 3 times-never to Milan or Pisa and to Venice only once. Every time I go, I increase the amount of time I spend in Florence. I definitely think you should go to Florence instead of Milan and it's only 2 hours on the train from Rome. If you think Pisa is skippable, I'd do that and spend more time in Rome or Florence.

I think Switzerland is such a great choice for you. I think it provides some down time for child and parents, and I think there are definitely ways to make it more affordable. Also, except for transportation, hikes are free.

Hello amrit.agarwal. You will be at Europe a total of 14 whole days. Because this will be your first trip to Europe, and your baby will be with you, I recommend going to France and Switzerland, only. Or, if you must go to Barcelona for your flight to Florida, I recommend going to France and Switzerland, and fly from the airport of Zurich to the airport of Barcelona.