Night train from Paris to Venice

Two of us took this same night train but Venice to Paris. Hot (A/C was out), cramped, not very pleasant at all. Breakfast was a joke. Our 'room' had 2 bunk beds and yes, it was hard to get to the upper bunk and there was absolutely no place for luggage and we'd never do it again! A huge disappointment.

tribble,

have any of you ridden a night train before? While you will see some comments here from people who have enjoyed night trains, the vast majority of contributors here are similar to the the story just above this one.

I have have ridden my fair share on both sides of the Atlantic. I have ridden my last.

If you must do it, I strongly suggest taking the most comfortable room available.

And plan for your first day in Venice to be a bit zombie-like (what a shame in such a unique place).

I have taken night trains a few times and will not do it again. It seems like such a romantic notion but, in reality, unless you are forking over $$$ for a luxury train, it is uncomfortable, stuffy, and you most likely won't get a good night's rest at all.
The top bunks are truly quite difficult to get in to, you often have to share the couchette with a stranger or two, the AC/ventilation is turned off somewhere around midnight (horribly hot and stuffy!), it is a fairly noisy ride, and the train stops at numerous stations throughout the night with people noisily getting on and off the train. I have even had an immigration/border official bang on the door in the middle of the night to check passports.
If you do decide to try it then definitely purchase the extra bunks in your couchette - I've shared with snorers, people who smelled awful, etc., and I just don't like the idea of being asleep with someone I don't know 2 feet away from me!
For the money, you could just as easily fly in a few hours and be well-rested and ready to enjoy beautiful Venice - don't waste any time there by being tired and grouchy from an uncomfortable overnight on a train...Venice is worth being happy and excited for. You don't want to drag around a bad memory of being there and feeling miserable!

Well it is left to me to be the voice of dissent (I have taken this route in both directions many times). I have slept on night trains all across Europe and it is still my preferred mode of travel! I have done itineraries where all my major routing were night trains. What's not to love, you get on with a picnic dinner, bottled water and a bottle of wine (so you don't have to use the dining car). By the time the wine is gone the conductor comes to turn down the beds. You sleep though the transportation part and arrive ready to go in the AM, without day time wasted in transit and you saved a little by not having to book a hotel room for the night. I see that as a win/win! (Also the train does offer a lower carbon footprint for your vacation than driving or flying).

I never used the 4 bed cars; I used 6 bed cars all the way and never had a truely bad experience. However, here is some advice that could make your night train experience better:

-For snoring just bring ear plugs and tell the conductor you use ear plugs, ask him/her to wake you. - I wear comfortable clothes (leggings and a t-shirt) and have an eye mask. -I sleep with my face toward the door, and my money belt inside the pillow case of my travel pillow. (incase the conductor needs paperwork in the night).
-It helps to travel with a good travel pillow; mine is a sharper image, contoured tempurpedic travel pillow (From Marshalls for cheap). I would forget a million things at home before I leave behind a good pillow!!!
-most important>> RELAX! I have met so many people on night trains that never travel on night trains or stay in hostels; and they are really worried about sharing a cabin with strangers! They don't get any sleep, because they are up all night envisioning their stuff being stolen and listening to every noise on the train. If you have locked up your bag zippers, taken precaution to have your money belt secure (some night train conductors will keep your passport for you, depends on the country) then there is no reason to be feeling worried / sleepless. With my face toward the door, I knew no one was coming in our cabin without me noticing, so it was easy to relax.
-As far a luggage, there are plenty of places to put luggage on a sleeper train. You put your bags under one of the two bottom bunks (even if someone is going to be sleeping there, just smile, lock your zippers and slide your bag to the end, away from the car door.) If you are a heavy sleeper you can secure your bags, by cable locking them to the frame of the bottom bunk. Or you can put it in the over the head rack over the door (this is the most secure place to put luggage because it is harder to put up/get down). If you are older and cannot lift your luggage. Politely ask for help from someone in your train car who is younger. I have helped many European grannies get their luggage up or down.

When you book the night train ask your travel agent/Rail Europe (or whoever) if they can book for you a bottom bunk (and/or all women-they try to do this when possible). Especially if you are booking your couchette while in France! Just go to any train information office in France (not to be confused with the tourism information booth in the train station) and ask them to put you on the middle and/or bottom bunks(or car full of women). Book as early as you can when you do it this way. You don't want the train to fill up without you!

Of course you can always consider flying which is faster than a night train and sometimes cheaper depending on the route and how far in advance you book. Bonne Chance!

I have to agree with Sara. I love train travel and had no problem with the night train from Paris to Rome. BUT, I did book a second class sleeper car, not a couchette. I have traveled in a couchette when I was younger but wanted the bit of extra space of a sleeper. I love the rocking motion of the train...slept well.And, I had the cabin to myself. I brought my own food and drink so I did not deal with on-train dining (or lack thereof).
For three people, I would suggest trying to get two adjacent sleepers. With luck, the third person won't even have to share.

With luck, the third person won't even have to share. The operative phrase is "with luck". If you want to be sure, you have to pay for the extra bed. That makes it pretty pricey. If you buy the 4th bed in the 4 person couchette, at least you'll have the whole room to your selves and only one person has to take the upper bunk and you can use the other upper as a luggage rack. That will make it reasonable pricewise.

I've taken a night train into and out of Venice. It was a pretty good experience on a relatively comfortable CNL train, but I did notice all the previously mentioned complaints about not the best nights sleep I ever had. So I've done that and can now cross it off the list.

You can probably get airline tickets for about 50 euro per person for an 1 1/2 hour flight. Yes, you have 3 hours going to the airport before flight time and an hour after you land, but it beats 12 hours in a train. Add about 15 to 20 euro ground transport costs.

I also like night trains, maybe once a trip, though I've never had a really good sleep on one. They can be romantic and fun, and logistically brilliant, though less so with the rise of cheap air faires.

I'd be interested in hearing a report from someone who has taken a Thello on this route. I imagine the same basic problems remain, but it seems to me that good rolling stock and good management can make a big difference.

We are in the "love night trains" category! I am definitely with Sara in the picnic, water, wine thing - with 3 of you better make it two bottles! We also grab a croissant for brekkie in the morning - something to wash the coffee down.

We sleep very well on the train - love the rocking motion - we may start out with both of us in the lower bunk, DH (who was 73 on our last night train) usually moves up to the upper bunk eventually.

I agree - definitely go for the quad - you will appreciate the place for your bags.

Thank you, all, for your helpful tips on the night train. Being a hopeless romantic, I think we gals will opt for the 4-person couchette and purchase four seats/bunks. My friends have never traveled in Europe; and I think they will be amenable to another adventure, the night train to Venice, even if we don't get a great night's sleep! We definitely will take ear plugs, a bottle or two of wine, and croissants for breakfast. I'll suggest they each take a travel pillow, too.

An all night train is about as unromantic as you can get, in my opinion, but best of luck! Personally, I would fly and enjoy the extra, very romantic, hours in Venice.

But I think Tribble has the right attitude. The train may not be romantic but it will be an adventure, something never done before, and especially since you are three friends travelling together it will be fun. In Egypt we took the overnight train from Cairo to Luxor despite dire warnings about the discomfort. The warnings were mostly right but we had so many laughs and the opportunity will not likely present itself again.

One advantage to Thello is there are no scheduled stops from 10:45 pm in Dijon, and 6 am in Milan. That is not to say you won't have to pull off on siding in the middle of the night to let freight trains pass. The cabin steward will have your passports so you should not need to be disturbed for border checks passing through Switzerland.

The Man in Seat 61 is a very well respected writer about train travel in Europe and beyond.

It is worth reading his opinions and reviewing the videos and photos he takes of most train journeys in Europe.

Based in the UK, his point of view is from there, but his opinion is valid all over.

His opinion of the Thello to Venice is at http://www.seat61.com/thello-train-from-paris-to-italy.htm#opinion on Thello and I suggest you read the whole page, especially the third paragraph of his opinion.

This is so that you can know what to expect. I'm sure the 3 of you will enjoy each other's company. I hope that you all remember the trip for all the right reasons.

Since your train is 6 months from now and if you read the Man in Seat 61 you will see that over the years these trains have sometimes changed owners and operating days and times, I would like to suggest that you consider travel insurance.

In the unlikely event that they might change anything with the journey you could be covered.

Reading the replies here I would say you have been suitably warned and if you do decide to go ahead I hope you have a good and enjoyable experience. For myself, I have done it many times when younger but now at 69 it would be the last option I would entertain. If you will have plenty of time in Venice to enjoy the city even if you can't do much the day you arrive then it might be ok. My advice would be to splurge and get the best sleeping accommodations you can afford to at least have the best chance of getting some sleep so you can enjoy your first day in Venice.

I know it must sound like I am flogging a dead donkey but I try hard to provide enough information that the readers here can make informed decisions.

I just wanted to mention that if any of the ladies are of the taller or wider shape (like me) it is worth knowing the size of the bunks. They are 180cm by 60cm. That's 23 and a half inches wide and just under 5 feet 11 inches long.

I hope that helps.

Thanks, Nigel. I'll check with my friends on what they want to do. We already have an airbnb apartment in Venice for April 21, not cheap. But perhaps we can get a decent hotel room for the night of April 20 near the Venice train station...or even close to the airport and take train and vaporetto into Venice the next morning.

Given the choices, I would fly Paris to Venice. I flew this route on Ryanair a few years ago. Up very early for the flight, arrive close to Venice, take shuttle bus into Venice. I was at my hotel in the early afternoon.

Another couple of trips I took a day train, leaving Paris at 8 am. With a change of trains in Milan, I arrived in Venice ln the late afternoon/early evening. The train was more scenic; the plane was less exhausting. If you must take a night train, take the advice offered above. You may love it!

I simply would not take the night train because of the likely discomfort and the fact that one of you in your 60s or 70sis going to have to crawl up into that top bunk, and crawl back down in the morning (with perhaps a midnight up-and-down to the toilet added in for good measure?). My parents are 70 and 76 respectively and I would NOT take them or put them on such a train. The risk of falling is just too great, and the consequences and perhaps resultant impact on the rest of your vacation too possibly severe. That is not to say that it's not the right choice for you -- we have at least one 70-something represented here who is happy to crawl up to the top bunk. And that's nice that Sara enjoys it - but i'm guessing she's a few decades younger than your group. But for myself and my peace of mind, if I were planning for my own loved ones, I would buy air tickets and find somewhere to stay an additional night in Venice the night before.

Hello Tribble, as you can see, everyone has there own opinion of night trains. I do as well, and although I'm no expert, I enjoyed it. My family and I recently took one, the same one you are thinking about taking on a Thello train. Yes, it was a little stuffy and yes, a bit noisy, but for me, it really didn't bother me. As for my wife and family, that is another story. They told me that they would never take a night train again. So as you can see, everyone has their own opinions.

It's great for saving money and not wasting a day by traveling at night. I do believe that next time, I will probably get a 2 person couchette for my wife and I and one for our daughters, just so that they will sleep a bit better, that's of course if they are willing to take another night train, lol.

Have fun on your trip.

Hubby and I did the night train from Salzburg to Venice - a little different because we didn't get on the train til after midnight (arrival was 7-8am - this was 2010, so things are fuzzy...we were able to leave our bags at the B&B and come back around lunch to officially check in). We had a private compartment (with only two beds). Um, I can usually sleep thru almost anything - I did OK. My biggest complaint - the miniscule pillow. I need a good puffy pillow to sleep, and had I known how teeny tiny the pillow was, I would have found a cheap one somewhere in Salzburg and left it on the train. This was also my issue when we went from our hometown to Montreal on VIA Rail. We just tried sleeping in the seats - it wasn't easy, and on our way home, I sprung for $5 pillows in Montreal so we'd have something better to (try and) sleep on.

Would I do a night train again? That's a hard one. I certainly wouldn't do one that left after midnight...most likely now, I would look at flying if it was a long distance, or breaking the trip up and spending a day in a town along the way. My husband - well, he didn't mind it...it was an experience tho!

(the trouble with) tribble

this is just my .02 (observations and comments) from a first time overnight passenger from Budapest to Krakow.

i had booked a private car (sleeps 2 and was charged for 2)

i had more space for my luggage since i travel light, but there was a little closet w/o a door where i was able to stow my luggage. If not the upper/lower bunk would have worked also.

the bad was wide enough for me since mine at home is a twin.

the sleep/rest was more or less non existent. There were alot of stops/starts, coupling/uncoupling of cars/engines and what not. Some engineers were able to decouple/couple the cars better than others. One coupling time it reminded me of a time on a flat back ship near Hawaii with 9 foot swells. Those just about threw me out of my bunk.

track (road) conditions varied in places too. Some were baby butt smooth and i thought i could sleep on this and some were not.

The horn is really loud even when youre the first car BEHIND the engine.

not alot of people boarding/disembarking from the car i was in. But im sure it could get loud/noisy if they were.

my comment/opinion.

if you dont care about how much sleep you may or may not get, then i say go for it and give it a try. I did my overnight ride since i wanted to give it a try and see how it works out. Also i figured that i may have to do one sooner or later and since this trip was at the end of my vacation loosing some rest would be easier to take than at the beginning.

if you do decide to take an overnight trip, i would give some thought into buying (paying) the whole room if you can. the drawback is that you will pay double! if i remember correctly most rooms will hold 6 people. If you just have the 3 of you, it will give you more room for you and your luggage. Just my opinion and .02

happy trails.

@ tribble...My compliments on your attitude on this night train issue...a can do attitude. I'm in your age bracket, mid-60s, and take night trains only under certain circumstances taking certain trains, the EC or better still, the CNL. No problem with sleeping on a sleeperette (the reclining seat), if those Europeans can do it, I had better too. Alot of people take night trains especially on week-ends in the summer, which causes them to be sold out, which I experienced but was told was next to impossible. But with your trip in late April that need not concern you.

Take the night train couchette option with your friends. You can always decide afterwards whether that way of traveling should be rejected or repeated on future rides..

Yes, it is (the trouble with) Tribble... We've pretty much decided to go with the night train from Venice to Paris, in spite of a whole bunch of negatives. I just spent a night trying to sleep on a plastic couch in my husband's hospital room,complete with the hourly nurse interruptions, the drip drip drip of the saline tube, and a teeny tiny hospital pillow. And I managed a few hours of sleep. So a train ride, with the Thello tiny pillow and my own travel pillow, and a whole previous day's walking, I should be able to do fine. I trust my two friends, younger than I, will fare the same. This train ride will be just another adventure on our grand trip of a lifetime!

More from tribble..

Yes, we all have trip insurance and will be renting a 4-person couchette for the four of us. I'll advise my friends to bring travel pillows and ear plugs. We will also bring something to eat and a bottle of wine to enjoy on the way.

My 73 year old husband and my 60 year old self take some trips just because of the overnight train rides. We have no problem with the upper bunk, but we do take turns when the view is better from the lower bunk…assuming we are on the train for more than one night. Sleeping is fine. I love having breakfast in bed as we pass the lovely scenery. We always get our own private room. And we've met some of the most interesting people on the train, but I've never met an interesting person on a flight (In all honesty, I don't want to be stuck talking to a seat mate unless they are with me. On the train I can return to my room and close the door). So I'm obviously in the pro-train side of this discussion. Tribble, let us know which camp you end up in after the trip. Have fun.

@ tribble...If others can do this night train option, then why can't you? If others cannot do this option, that's irrelevant to you. If you get the hang of riding a night train, it'll be old hat. Should it turn out to be unpleasant, then you can reject this option the next time.

Gosh I have to go to the washroom at least once in middle of night,and I have certainly seen some very unpleasant bathrooms on trains( not when you board, give it few hours ! Lol) I also hate sleeping in my clothes and never pack a robe , so those trips to the bathroom mean getting dressed( or sleeping in clothes) I wish I could afford a luxury cabin with a toilet in it!!!

Dear fellow travelers,

After much research and thought, we have decided to fly to Venice on April 20 (6:00 p.m., arriving at 7:40 p.m.) and to check into a nice hotel near St. Mark's Square. Much as the idea of a night train appealed to me, I discovered that flying and staying in a hotel would be only about twenty dollars more than the train...and we will get a good night's sleep and free breakfast, plus an early start on visiting the cathedral, etc. The night train would have cost us each ca. $169 more or less for a 4-bed couchette; the plane fare on AirFrance is only $88 (no more or less), and the room in Hotel Serenissima is $71 a piece. We can take the Alilaguna public transport taxi from the airport to St. Mark's for about $25 or $30 round trip. So what if it takes an hour to get there.

Thank you all again, for your advice and tips.

Sally a.k.a. tribble

Dear fellow travelers,

After much research and thought, we have decided to fly to Venice on April 20 (6:00 p.m., arriving at 7:40 p.m.) and to check into a nice hotel near St. Mark's Square. Much as the idea of a night train appealed to me, I discovered that flying and staying in a hotel would be only about twenty dollars more than the train...and we will get a good night's sleep and free breakfast, plus an early start on visiting the cathedral, etc. The night train would have cost us each ca. $169 more or less for a 4-bed couchette; the plane fare on AirFrance is only $88 (no more or less), and the room in Hotel Serenissima is $71 a piece. We can take the Alilaguna public transport taxi from the airport to St. Mark's for about $25 or $30 round trip. So what if it takes an hour to get there.

Thank you all again, for your advice and tips.

Sally a.k.a. tribble

It looks like you did your research, weighed your options, and made an informed decision. Others may disagree but I think you made a wise decision. Enjoy your time in Venice.

Sounds like a good plan, but watch those overhead luggage compartments.

It was no tribble at all.