14 day itinerary out of Frankfurt

First of all, your day one, arriving in Frankfurt and then training to Munich, only to leave on a night train to Rome the next day seems a bit odd, & frankly a huge chunk of your vacation time.. If you want to go to Rome, check out flights from Frankfurt to Rome, using the same carrier you are flying with from Seattle. Have you considered flying open jaw, arriving in Rome and leaving from Frankfurt? Again, on your trip from Venice to Munich, have you looked at cheap flights? I would think you could get cheap flights between the 2 countries, and just have train tickets for certain days rather than a 5 day rail pass. Price out some different options. Do you want to see Munich at all, or is it just a way station for you? What about Frankfurt?

"I don't speak a word of German and those big, compound words frighten my tiny mind. I speak enough French to get around and be polite, and I've been working on basic tourist Italian." English is spoken much more widely (and better) in Germany than in France or Italy. You can visit parts of France almost without leaving Germany. Alsace is next door. You might enjoy Strasbourg and/or Colmar with visits to Freiburg and/or Gengenbach (old walled town) in Germany.

Flying into Frankfurt, then going to Rome immediately is like me flying to Seattle, to take a train to Sacramento the next day. I suggest you take the short flight directly onto Rome then work your way back on the train, or adjust your schedule so as not to waste two days of such a short trip. Otherwise, Frankfurt, Munich, Salzburg, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Alsace, are all areas not far from Frankfurt which you would enjoy and could do in a loop.

I got a great deal on nonstop flights to Frankfurt, so those tickets are bought and paid for - there is no changing them. And after a ten hour flight, the thought of getting on another airplane is not appealing. Again, this itinerary is not set in stone, I'm just looking for other input - Some might feel that going east, (Berlin, Prague) is more fun, or north, (Copenhagen)... In terms of Munich, yeah, it's probably too short - On this itinerary, for instance, maybe shave a day off Siena and spend more time in Munich, But I am doubling back through there, so I thought I could pick up any thing I missed on my way back to Frankfurt...
I didn't see anything of particular interest in Frankfurt, so I really just view it as a hub.

I didn't see anything of particular interest in Frankfurt, so I really just view it as a hub. Oh dear, perhaps you have looked in the RS Germany book. For some reason it disses Frankfurt. It is quite a nice place with lots of great scenery around. Last summer we spent several days just in the Frankfurt area, including a really neat town of Idstein and another of Buedigen. Walls and fortifications and castles and half timbered and woods and .... Don't write off Frankfurt.... (putting on tin hat and awaiting mild explosion from the direction of Jo ... who knows all about Frankfurt and is willing to share ...)

If the budget matters and if you really are open to suggestions, well, you'd have a much finer trip if you stuck to Germany since you're starting and ending there. The railpasses will be about $1,000, right? A sleeper will add hundreds more. Not that you'll sleep, necessarily. "I didn't see anything of particular interest in Frankfurt." A few suggestions: Within one hour of FRA by train: COLOGNE: The most immense Gothic cathedral in Europe, good museums (art-, Roman-, even chocolate-themed) and nice old town area, everything close in to the station. To the south: Remagen's WW II museum - www.bruecke-remagen.de MIDDLE RHINE VALLEY: (between Cologne and FRA): Dozens of medieval castles here. Bet you don't have those in Seattle: http://www.welterbe-mittelrheintal.de/intro.html MAINZ: Nice old town, Romanesque cathedral, close to FRA On the way to Munich: Castles and palaces around Bavaria: http://www.schloesser.bayern.de/englisch/palace/index.htm WUERZBURG: Residenz palace, Marienberg fortress ROTHENBURG: Amazingly intact medieval walled town NUREMBERG: Nazi Documentation Center, nice old town center, castle zone. DACHAU Concentration Camp Memorial Site/Museum South of Munich: Berchtesgaden, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Mittenwald: great alpine scenery Salzburg - Mozart of course, and some awesome castles: http://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/ (w/ raptor show at Hohenwerfen!) And with 14 days you could see BERLIN too. A 6-day German twinpass is half the cost of 2 3-country passes. And Germany generally is half the cost of Italy, and maybe half as hot/crowded in summer.

Thanks for the links. The Middle Rhine is indeed beautiful. I had contemplated more time in Germany and renting a car for a day to explore the Bavarian castles, though many of them can be accessed by bus from Munich as well. I really hadn't thought of traveling only in Germany - maybe because I don't speak a word of German and those big, compound words frighten my tiny mind. I speak enough French to get around and be polite, and I've been working on basic tourist Italian.
Lots of great suggestions and feed back so far, thanks.

Hi Sam, Just my opinion of course, by day 4 (Rome) you'll both be so wiped out from all the traveling (Seattle to Frankfurt to Munich to Rome) it will take some time to adjust and recover. Venice to Munich to Frankfurt is less of a haul, but still, you have so much time devoted to traveling from far flung places and not being out in the places people go to Europe to see. I'd stick with the Rhine, Mosel, Bavaria (south of Munich) and Austria. Paul

Hi, I would also suggest spending most of your time in Germany, except for either choosing Vienna or Venice. That night train from Munich-Venice is very doable, or instead spend those days alloted for Italy in Frankfurt with a day trip to the middle Rhine area, such as Bacharach...very historical... and Vienna, a little more than four hours on the RJ train from Munich, or go to Berlin direct on the ICE. If you get a rail Pass, the Austria-Germany one is good enough, no need for a third country to be added.

What are you and your sons' interests? If you give us a bit more information then we can make better suggestions. Medieval places, historic locations, art, WW2, churches, architecture, etc. You say you don't want to spend more time flying after the flight from Seattle, but your plan now, has you will getting into a train and sitting for another 3 hours and then the next day all night long. If it was me, I would rather spend those short 2 hours flying and then be where I wanted to be anyway, gaining a day + of vacation, and a good nights sleep.

Thanks for all the advice. I looked into flights and found some great deals, but nothing direct - Lot's of convoluted routing on the budget flights, involving Dusseldorf or Berlin. The trip itself is too convoluted as well, I see now, thanks to the input. I'm going to stick w/ Italy (kinda have my heart set on rome at this point) But by knocking out Tuscany, I can spend five nights in Bavaria, Four nights in Rome and two nights in Venice, with two night trains. Very doable, more relaxing and more time to explore Munich and Bavaria, which I'm very excited about.
Thanks again!

Your latest plan makes much more sense. there is a lit to see in Munich and between there and frankfurt- at least get some leverage out of flying via Frankfurt