To book or not to book

I don't use travel agents, primarily because they can't make the same decisions you would make. They go on what you tell them but can't possibly know what you consider the best value for money.

Along that line, when traveling in Europe in the fall, I've found you can save even more traveling without reservations. Calling directly at the last minute to hotels that are sitting on vacant rooms consistently nets me rooms at a lower price than the minimum book rate you can find online or in travel guides. I prefer to travel that way and prefer no set itinerary (just a well developed outline). It's not for everyone. If it's something you would consider, you will be there at the perfect time to take advantage of it.

Just a guess, but a travel agent will take the easiest path, and possibly one that offers a benefit to them...such as credits or commission for booking certain chains or hotels.

Added to that, I can compare to my Agency that books Business travel, they will always put me in a major chain, and usually at a peak cost, 200-300 a night, when I can get a more budget chain or small B&B for maybe $100.

While daunting right now, you have lots of time. It looks like you have done some work, but do some research, most Rick Steves recommended hotels are way less than $250, with some work you could be in the$5000 to $6000 range, unless all your stays are in very large cities.

As for booking your own trip, nearly all on here do exactly that. The internet makes it so easy compared to the old days of faxes, phone calls, snail mail....most places, even small hotels have websites for booking, lots of reviews online, a world of information.

To add to what Brad has said, I too rarely book all my rooms ahead of time, usually my first and last nights, also major cities that can be an issue (Paris, Venice, etc.) But having a good list of hotels for an area and a call the day before or the day of has yielded great savings and flexibility to my plans.

I see no reason to pay $5000 to someone else for what you can do yourself. It will take time and effort to book all those rooms but you remain in charge. If you use a booking website, such as booking dot com, you can make changes to your itinerary later and PAY AT THE HOTEL later. To make the job of travel planning easier, you can stay longer than two days in each place and take side-trips. I do this in London, Paris, Florence, and other places. I like to stay about 4 nights before moving on.

I reserve rooms then often end up changing my mind and canceling. This is easy to do on some websites. If there is a place you especially want to reserve, be sure to make advance arrangements. Otherwise, it is probably safe to wait until closer to the time you will be traveling.

Weekends can be challenging when finding lodging for Friday-Saturday nights. I am likely to make an effort to get a room to cover these nights enforce worrying about the rest.

I'm a bit curious about the 21 hotels in 48 days. Do you mean 48 nights? In either case, that's a lot of moving around. If it is nights, that's only about 1 day in each place and it seems like your trip will be more about being on the road or rails or plane than about being in the places you are going. All that extra transport will cost more, too, whether you rent a car, take the train or fly. You have lots of time off the boat and on the ground on this trip. You might enjoy it more if you slow down a bit.

Having said that, I make all our hotel, B&B and apartment reservations using a variety of sources to find the places. Then I book directly with them rather than going through any of those sources. If anything goes wrong, I prefer dealing with the place directly over going through any go-between. So far, nothing has ever gone wrong.

I would definitely think your wife's research on this is correct. Your budget is pretty high for daily lodging costs (182 euro today), so if you care about saving money, that's another place you could shave even more off your costs. If you decide to slow down, apartments are a great way to enjoy "living" in a location for a few days and they are often cheaper while providing more freedom.

The main sources I use to identify lodging are Booking.com, Rick Steves' books, and Trip Advisor. The sources I use to identify apartments are HomeAway and VRBO (Vacation Rental by Owner). Those two are affiliated. I have used Airbnb to identify apartments to rent, but have not yet rented anything that way. There are many other options for finding apartments or hotels in specific areas or cities. For example, and especially for small towns and if you are driving, we have used Logis in France (http://www.logishotels.com/en.html).

It would not be that difficult to book your own trip, but doing this is work, there's no doubt about it. Because lodging has consistently been our highest expense (not counting airfare) over the last few trips, I try to find the best place I can for a reasonable price. We average about $150 per night for lodging (109 euro today), but that's an average. Some places are cheaper and others more expensive. So far we have never stayed in any bad places, or in any American-style hotels. And our apartment in Amsterdam (above Tiffany's) last April was amazingly beautiful at a very reasonable price.

One thing that we gain by booking on our own is that we actually get to see the rooms or apartments I am booking, so we can see what we are getting. My husband in particular has some requirements that are deal-breakers if they are not present: a shower with a shower head high on the wall (as opposed to a tub with a sprayer and no place to hang the sprayer up high) and an available plug close to the head of the bed for his CPAP machine. You cannot search for these things and I doubt that any travel agent would bother checking the lodging to see if they are present. The only way I've been able to determine if a room or apartment has them is to look at the pictures.

Seems like your wife already did most of the work, pricing the same hotels on the same dates. Just one additional step to make the actual reservations, why not do it?

I also agree with the other posters about advance reservations, you don't need to make them this far ahead unless your heart is set on a particular place. Amsterdam is busy in September and you know when you'll be there, so maybe set that up now, and any others that tie to special events (like Octoberfest?). Be flexible about the rest. Booking.com is a good way to search, and if you're taking a tablet or other device you can use wifi to book ahead as you travel. This will work better if you're driving than if you're taking trains, where you'll save money by booking as far ahead as possible. If you're training, then your itinerary will be set and you might as well pre-book hotels too, or some of them.

Edit -- Yes, what Lo said, 21 hotels for 48 nights is a lot of moving around.

Stan.. I still can't get my head around 21 hotel stays in 48 days.. you do understand that two nights in one location means you are only allowing one full day at that location.. How many places are only worth one day???? I would eliminate many of them.. if they are only worth a day they aren't worth the hassle to me.

I haven't used a travel agent in 15 years at least.. They will only book you in hotels that pay commission.. and that is built into the room price usually.. A travel agent is not being deceitful by doing this.. how else do yo expect them to earn their money? They also tend to book people into chain hotels and usually do not look for the best rates or deals. I am not even a little bit surprised that your wife was able to book cheaper ..

I suggest you relook at itinerary and let wife book hotels. I suggest you look for more 3 night minimum stays too.. your trip sounds like a tour of train stations and airports.

Last trip we had 7 hotels in 26 days and I found it a bit to much moving about.. this trip we have 5 hotels in 28 days and think that will work out fine for us.. of course I understand other people want to travel more.. keep moving.. but 48 days is a long time to move every 2-3 days.. I would put in at least two 5-7 day stops into a 7 week trip.. I bet you are hitting some "big" spots where settling in for 5 days at least would be worth it ( Barcelona, Rome, London, Paris,??)

Remember you have to do laundry during this trip.. lol Give yourself a few days here and there to do nothing more then wandering the streets, getting laundry done, and visiting an outdoor market.. then a long lunch and siesta !

Also remember the big cities offer many great daytrip choices.. same hotel but visit many places.. a good base.

Yes 21 hotels. I neglected to mention that our trip starts in the UK. We'll be there for 18 days in August. The other 30 days will be all of October, a couple of days in Amsterdam, and on to France, Spain, and finally Portugal.

Looking at it from the perspective of 21 stops in 48 days does seem a bit busy. After reading the responses to my post, we're rethinking our schedule.

Dick wrote:

" if you're taking trains, where you'll save money by booking as far
ahead as possible."

Please explain. Is there an advantage to booking way ahead? If so, how far ahead?

We'll, we're guilty of wanting to see it all in one trip I guess. Including the Viking, cruse we'll be away from home for the better part of three months, which isn't a real a problem. We can stay about as long as we want. Maybe we'll decide to be vagabonds once we get there. A couple of years ago I was thinking we might spend a full year living and traveling in Europe. But we've settled on this trip instead.

Reading these helpful replies, persuades me to step back and take another look at our agenda. A more leisurely pace would be better.

I cannot imagine that I would book hotels ahead for 48 days and then was a slave of that schedule. I like freedom on my vacation. We come to a destination. If we like it we stay longer (as we did in Sorrento). Once we came by train to Prague and book our hotel at accommodation office in Main Train Station. The hotel was 50% off its normal price and only one tram stop from Main Train Station. Coming to smaller places we usually book our accommodation just few days ahead via internet. The same with trains with the exception of Eurostar, Thalys and few others where you can get huge discounts by booking ahead. There are many trains where you get the same price if you buy the ticket at the station just before boarding or one month ahead. Maybe I am lucky (but I doubt because nobody has so much luck) but this kind of travel always worked for me.

So you gave the agent an 'under $12K' budget and it came in over $14K on the quote. Unless they gave a detailed explanation of why going $2K over your budget would provide a far superior experience, I'd be inclined to say you got labeled as someone who seemed to be rich enough with the long trip and all that you wouldn't notice just how far over they were asking you to pay.

Rule #1 to having me as a happy customer- listen carefully to what my specifications are, especially in terms of money. If my budget is not feasible for what I want, then explain clearly to me why I need to either spend more or expect less. So not just throw a significantly higher number up the flagpole and expect me to salute it via checkbook or credit card. So given the fundamental disconnect and lack of listening skills, I would no longer be a customer of that agency.

As for booking it yourself, sounds like you're already most of the way there. Booking.com and Hotels.com are good first steps, but always cross check their prices against the hotel's own web site. Example- Booking wanted about $50 USD a night more than the hotel's own web site for our London pick for this summer.

stan,

if i read this correct, youre spending an additional 48 days and you want to to keep the cost less than 250/day. If my math is correct, 250*48=12000.

but this is how i see things and have experience life in general.

If you go to someplace like a car/boat/house large expense place and they they ask you "whats your budget?" or "how much are you willing to spend?", no one ever shows you the "lowest" price whatever, they always go to the max and sometime over.

I think that is what you are experiencing. its just my opinion/experience.

> "Would it be that difficult to book our own trip?????"

No. Many people do it and many people dont. Its up to you how you spend your time and $$$. If you can afford to spend extra to have someone else do it, go for it.

i will also add another thing. Its not my $$ youre spending, its yours, and im sure thats how they feel about making arrangements. If it cost a little more, its your $$$ and i can spend your $$$ like its water.

happy trails.

Different issue:

48 days and 21 hotels......... Switching destinations so often makes me wonder how much time you will be spending traveling from place to place. Take pause and consider if the end of this long journey will leave you with more memories about transportation then places visited.

Be very wise about the amount of luggage you will be hauling around.

So you will start your own trip at the end of September and shall experience weather for the months of Oct and Nov in how many countries?

Perhaps....... You should consider staying minimum of three nights at several key cities and rent an apt. Advantages are more space, kitchen, better economics and a break from hotels. View your options on Airbnb web site to gain a perspective for this option. Our first choice is apts over hotels.

Out of curiosity, would you mind sharing your itinerary for the extended trip?

I would fire the TA - they are clearly taking advantage of what they perceive to be your naivete and at bank account - I would not want to do business with anyone like that. Booking hotels for 48 days is really not that hard - your wife was halfway there when she did the price comparison. Travel agents tend to book where they make the best commission - not necessarily the best location or hotel for you. When you book your own you have complete control over quality, location & price.

You eat this elephant one spoonful at a time.

stan my experience with travel agents is that it would be a miracle to find one that had enough experience in European travel to take the time to research and find hotels with any more effort than going to the major-brand hotel chains' websites, and plugging in your destinations. Most TAs would assume that you want familiar US-style business class accommodations. Of course you can do better booking on your own. But no way would 23 day cruise + 48 day marathon be anything but exhausting. Trying to see everything, you experience nothing. Take some time to poke around this website and the RS books or videos, and you'll come up with a better plan.

The other stan

One thing a travel agent can do is take the blame for a mistake. This can be valuable in a marriage. I don't know that it's worth 5 grand. So resolve to avoid blaming your wife for a bad room or lost booking, and discuss it with her so that she doesn't worry about it.

There is a relatively better approach to manage all those reservations.

Stick to a major online reservation engine (I recommend Booking.com or Venere). Learn their interface (Booking is very user-friendly, no gotchas or hidden sneaky small letters), search for hotels, read reviews. Then. book hotels that can be cancelled up to 1 or 2 days before your tentative date in your schedule. This way, you will have a "basic" itinerary with all beds reserved before you depart. Should you want to readjust your schedule while travelling, you login in your account and cancel or change your coming reservations as you travel.

I find this a superior approach to let someone at a tourist information kiosk send you to a place you don't know, haven't seen any pics and can't locate on Google Maps before committing. It also saves you time and aggravation of finding rooms at the last minute.

It is not at all difficult to book your own hotels, even for such a long trip. I also recommend booking.com, but you can probably do even better by going direct using Rick's books. With the amount of time that you have, I would highly recommend longer stays. It won't seem so daunting if you have longer and fewer stays. Travel agents are always going to book you into expensive places, you can do so much better on your own. I have always found that dealing with travel agents, and giving them sufficiently precise instructions, is not any easier than doing the work myself. I am not even sure what countries you are considering, but you will also spend much less in smaller towns than in the big cities. The countryside and smaller towns of England and France, for example are real bargain compared to London and Paris. Which is not to say don't got to London and Paris, just mix it up a bit. You will save a bundle and get a more broad based understanding of the countries that you visit. Whatever you decide, know that many of us on this board envy the fact that you have so much time to spend. I am sure you will have a great time!

As a former B&B owner I can tell you that we mostly put rooms on the booking engines for the exposure and most do not put all rooms available there. When you run a small property the large commission taken by these booking engines comes right out of your pocket. Most small properties prefer if you book directly. I usually search for availability on the larger booking engines then check the hotel/B&B's website and book from there or via email. On more than one occasion we were greeted with a small token of appreciation for booking directly - generally a free beverage. Just something to keep in mind.

My wife and I are very appreciative of all the knowledgeable responses. I'll admit I was becoming intimidated by our itinerary. This was supposed to be a once in a lifetime fun filled excursion, not a travel marathon. We didn't want to do organized tours with all the restrictions and rush to get to the next dot on the map. But .... it looks like we managed to create a mini monster of our own.

We've traveled many miles in our 5th wheel and always go at our own pace and very seldom make a reservation. Some how, for this trip, it seemed like organization and minute planning was absolutely necessary. But thanks to all of you on the forum, we'll move fun and relaxation back into our planning. At our age, 76, slowing down and smelling the roses is supposed to come naturally. And we are very fortunate to have as much time for this trip as we wish to take.

"We've traveled many miles in our 5th wheel and always go at our own pace and very seldom make a reservation. Some how, for this trip, it seemed like organization and minute planning was absolutely necessary..."

Horse of a different color here. At home (probably in the USA) you have the luxury of towing your own room so, yes you can wing it and stop and smell all the roses you want and the only thing holding you back is $$$, food, water, gas/propane and the capacity of your holding tank.

Once you leave that home on wheels behind, youre stuck with dealing with where are you going to stay for the night(s), how do you get there with out your dually and this where the work begins.

you can still wing it as others have done on here and in other places, its just that youre going to have to accept whats offered within your budget and location.

happy trails.

I am glad that my first trip to Europe I was so clueless that I just landed and decided what to do after I got there. I did have a car, so if all else failed I could sleep in it. However, even though it was summer we never did. Always found great and memorable hotels and I don't feel I paid more than I should have. That is how I usually travel the US as well, and I found it to be not that different. I have since traveled dozens of times to Europe, and sometimes make some reservations and often times not... it all works out and I love going without a plan and letting my trip unfold...lots of serendipity. It sounds like money will not be a huge issue...so you will have the luxury of being able to throw money at a problem should it occur.
Need a room...see a hotel... go in and ask. If they are full....move on.
Lots of people do not plan their trip minute to minute...or even week to week.... most of them just don't happen to hang out here... after all this is a 'trip planning' website:)) You could make a few random reservations, but do look at booking.com. I use it when I do want to reserve rooms.

Stan - if you are going to go towards the wing it method - my favorite - just just do a little internet search the day or two before you arrive in the next destination for a hotel and book online. You will be shoulder season mostly so places should not be full. Just check ahead of time (like now) if any of your destinations have festivals or events during the time period of your visit - if they do hotels may be booked or at a premium - and you can plan accordingly.

Have a great time!

Yes we learned that when our TA booked three nights in Edinburgh at the bargain basement price of $1000.00 per night. August is festival time, which we were aware of, the military Tattoo was at the top or must see list. But $1000.00 per night? That was our first real clue we would have to take a closer look at what we were getting into.

$1,000 a night is INSANE. I feel like even if I had the money to spend that much on a hotel, I wouldn't drop that much money on a place where I'm asleep for a majority of the time I'm there. You're traveling to see Europe, not European hotel rooms :)

I understand the benefit of travel agents before the internet was readily available, but these days, a bit of online research and a good booking website will do that work for you AND keep you better informed about your options. As someone mentioned, if you stick to one website (I would also recommend Booking.com), it will be easy to get the hang of it. I hope you get this sorted and have a wonderful trip!

"Yes we learned that when our TA booked three nights in Edinburgh at the bargain basement price of $1000.00 per night. August is festival time, which we were aware of, the military Tattoo was at the top or must see list. But $1000.00 per night? That was our first real clue we would have to take a closer look at what we were getting into."

Holy bagpipes Batman! That's a lot of scotch!

Stan, Is that $1000 room cancellable? Unless it's some spectacular place that you are looking forward to experiencing, you might check on your own to see what else is available.

It looks like your post-boat tour starts in Amsterdam, goes to France & Spain & ends in Portugal, for a total of about 30 days. I assume you are flying home from Lisbon?

I would suggest that you sit down with a map, and pinpoint the places you would like to stay between Amsterdam and Lisbon, and then assign the appropriate number of nights to each place, depending on how much there is to see, side trips available, etc. I agree with Pat that you should have at least one 5-7 night stop during your trip (Paris?), with a minimum of 3 nights everywhere else. (OK, sometimes we'll do 2 nights, if it's a small place with just one must-see sight.) We personally find that 7-8 stops is a good number for a 30-day trip, for a trip that is interesting but not exhausting. Once you have your itinerary figured out, I'd agree with Andre that you should choose a single on-line reservation system (I like booking.com) and make a reservation for each stop. Be sure that all reservations you make are cancellable (sometimes they are not, so read details carefully). Now you have all of your reservations in one spot, but you still have some freedom, because it will be a simple matter to change or cancel reservations as you go along (as long as you follow the booking site's guidelines and cancel within your allotted time, usually about 48 hours in advance of arrival).

This will be a fun trip! Come back to this forum if you have further questions as you fine-tune your itinerary.

I misspoke. The TA hadn't reserved the $1000.00 per night super room, it was only a suggestion. That was only one of several unacceptable hotel ideas.

We'll have more than 30 days after the boat ride. We jump ship on the 23 or 24 of September, and We've added 4 days in November as a cushion. We can stay an extra day or two here and there when we feel like it.

We know the cities we want to visit. Now, with the looser approach suggested on the forum, we'll make most of our reservations as needed.

I was getting pretty grumpy with the TA but now, I'm a lot more relaxed. This trip is getting interesting again.

Thanks again for all the input.

“But .... it looks like we managed to create a mini monster of our own” - that made me laugh out loud, Stan!!

What a great time you and your wife will have! It sounds like a less rushed pace is definitely the way to go and something you'll be glad you did. Enjoy the planning and your trip!

We're so glad the answers you've gotten have been helpful, and thank you for coming back on line to give people feedback.
Are any of the places you were thinking of moving around accessible if you plop down in a central location and make day-trips. For example, we have several places to see in Northern Italy, but instead of moving every two or three days, we're parking ourselves in one apartment near a train station in a central city and traveling out to the others for day trips. Finally a last idea: have you thought of renting a motor home for parts of your trip when you'll be outside of large cities? The motor home culture exists in Europe too.

@Bets... what a great suggestion. I had almost forgotten I stayed in a motor home in England. In the driveway of some friends of mine... that was the year before they sold their home, retired and now just travel all over Europe in it. They had made many vacation trips in it before they decided to 'live' in it. I am sure they must rent them somewhere (although there are lots of roads I might be hesitant to drive it on) One could plan accordingly....