1 month London, France, Italy, Greece itinerary

Hi Domingo.

First, of course, congratulations on your upcoming wedding and honeymoon. You are wise to start thinking about it so far ahead so you have time to create exactly the trip you want.

I have a few questions about your itinerary. You say you have about three weeks but my rough thought is you have about 30 days laid out including your 4 days in NYC. When you talk about back-packing in Europe, I am a little surprised about the deeply urban agenda you have selected....I don't understand what back packing means in the context of London, Paris or Rome. Maybe you would explain your vision.

My only other thought is about •Then taxi Saturnia to Rome . Rome2Rio (a site you might usefully spend some time on) suggest that it is a 4 1/2 hour train ride or a 2 hour + drive, which would, I suspect, make it a very expensive cab ride.

Great European cities are worthy of more days to be seen properly. You're attempting to see too many places too far apart.
London and Paris are full week destinations (each.)
Venice, Florence and Rome is a two week trip to itself.
All of the above cities have plenty of day trips available to take up your full month of travel.
Europe's expensive enough for a one month's trip without taking 11 hour taxi tours and chauffeurs.
You should consider simplifying your itinerary as you don't want your honeymoon to be a complete blur.

Thank you both for your replies.

Kate- Thank you for the congrats. I say backpacking because we'll only be bringing backpacks, no luggage. Not sure if I used the term correctly? We're staying in nice hotels and airbnbs (entire home, not private/shared rooms). Our budget is $5k, not including airfare (that's a separate budget).
I hadn't thought out the taxi from Saturnia to Rome, I think we may do a taxi to Grosseto train station and take the train to Rome instead. Thanks for bringing that up.

David- I see a lot of the time people say don't take on too much at one time. But I think it's fine for us. We left out a lot of other places already and are now mainly focused on the areas we wanted to see.

London, I read, is much like NYC so I feel we're not missing out if we spend just 3 nights there. We are spending 7 nights in Paris, so we could do 4 night London, 6 nights Paris?

Venice is 3 nights, do we need more time there? We are not stopping to see Florence since it's too vast and we'd rather see the other hill towns of Tuscany. We are only spending 3 nights in Rome because we aren't really into Roman Ruins and it's too crowded. My sister went there on her honeymoon for 2 weeks, and it didnt sound appealing to us (she even said it doesnt sound like our style). We would have skipped over it had we not wanted to see the Vatican City. We think 3 days is more than enough time to see Vatican City at our leisure and take the day trip to Amalfi.

We feel its necessary to take the 11 hour taxi tour as we didn't want to drive and wanted the luxury to customize our own tour.

We're pretty set on doing just a few days here and there, we want that whirlwind tour experience! It's more us...

I think a few days in each place is great way to travel (my preference as well). You get a taste and you can always go back again. It al depends on what you want to see and if you are willing to do the flying.

You have a really structured itinerary, but I would advise that with all this traveling and moving from place to place, you are bound to run into some bumps along the way. Try to be flexible and remember that sometimes there is more fun in things not going right on schedule or just changing your mind.

For Greece - by the time you travel, currency/status should be more clear. In any case, be aware of sudden transit strikes that could interfere with transportation in Athens so you allow enough time to get back to the airport. Also, be sure to bring all the Euros (probably Euros) that you will need with you to Greece. Cash is more preferred.

Chauffeur, private tour and taxi were never in the mix when I was backpacking. Gee how things have changed. lol.
I would reduce Paris to 5 nights, adding a night to London and staying overnight in Florence.
Congratulations, and all the best.

Consider eliminating Alsace. It looks like you're using lots of time to get there and only have a few hours to sightsee. Just fly from Paris to Venice and give yourselves another day somewhere else. I'd spend a day in Rome and then 2-3 days in Sorrento or Naples, if you can fly from Naples to Athens. Sorrento or another nearby town will be more scenic and romantic than Rome, for sure.

I too am not clear on the reason for taking a train to Colmar and then catching a flight. You'd save a lot of time and money just skipping that for another time and flying from Paris to Venice.

Three nights in London, especially as a first stop with jetlag, seems tight. There is so much to see and do in and around London that I would try to at least add another day. Seven nights in Paris could be reduced to 5-6 just to get the feel of it and not miss the major sights. Three nights in Venice is more than enough IMO.

The whirlwind tour of Tuscany sounds exhausting but I'll leave that to your own preferences.

I know what you mean about Rome - so you may be fine with three nights. If you like it you can come back. I find it takes a few nights to settle in there and then I don't want to leave right away. And there is a lot of good food to eat. Amalfi coast as a daytrip isn't realistic. Some people try Pompeii as a daytrip, which I also think is insane. If you are not into Rome, why not just spend 1-2 nights there and spend a couple nights in Amalfi where you might enjoy the scenery and food more.

I'd honestly give yourself a night in Athens. Let yourself see the Acropolis as more than just a flyby and avoid the chance of delayed flights cutting your visit altogether.

Intra-Europe flights can be cheap, but you have a lot of area to cover. I assume you've checked into the total cost of your transportation and budgeted for that. And don't forget to factor in the time you will spend in transit. There is time spent checking out of a hotel, getting to the airport/station, waiting time, transit time, getting to your hotel and checking in. Even a 1-2 hour flight/ride is at least a half day spent traveling.

We just got back from 3 weeks in Europe and flew in and out of London where we didn't leave the airport, so the time and energy used up in traveling from one place to another is quite fresh in my mind. Navigating airports can be a mental challenge when you have to change terminals for your next flight(Heathrow and DeGaulle. You should try to minimize the number of airports . If you are leaving on your honeymoon soon after your wedding, and your wedding is anything other than small and simple, you will likely already be worn out before you even start the trip.

Recommendations: I've been to Europe 9 times and Venice is on my list of places I don't return to. It is the only place other than Moscow where I've gotten sick (have been on 2 trips to Guatemala without getting sick) and I followed the tour director's health precautions exactly, including not even using the water to brush my teeth. On the other hand, I would never pass up a chance to visit Florence-a great city for walking. If you skipped Venice and spent the time in Florence, your Tuscany visit would be easier. In Rome, if you're only interested in the Vatican, you should stay at the Alimandi which is literally down the steps from the Vatican Museums.

If you have any major flight delays or ground transportation snafus(strikes) , you might not make it to the Acropolis. Trying to see it on a layover will be exhausting-it's a hot, long climb.

I suggest you budget for taxis for your short trips(like Acropolis layover)-getting to tourist sites and back to airport by public transportation is sometimes mentally and physically challenging.

Why fly to Milan? We flew Aegean from Santorini to Athens, then back to States from Athens.

Just a few comments. I really enjoyed Colmar, but the day you're planning isn't really feasible. The train from Paris will take you 3 hours, you're than planning 6 hours in Colmar, a half-hour or so to return to Strasburg, and then a flight to Venice. Add to that transit time to and from stations and airports, plus the time you need to arrive before train/plane departure, and I'd guess you have a 12 hour day – if everything goes perfectly. I would stay overnight in Colmar. Also, finding hotels in Venice is not the easiest thing to do since you can't rely on street addresses – I wouldn't want to arrive in Venice for the first time after dark.

Also, if you want to start your Tuscany tour in Pisa, I'd suggest taking the train to Pisa rather than starting in Florence.

Finally, experiences are very individual. Unlike the earlier commentor, I found Venice to be an amazing place. I've spent several weeks there over the course of 4 visits, and look forward to going back again later this year.

Hi everyone! Thank you for all your suggestions. I've got a lot to consider and definitely revising things a little.

A couple of you mentioned we should skip over Colmar. We may change it to overnight instead. Is it worth an overnight trip or do you still think we should skip it?

Stephanie - I agree with you about flexibility, we'll keep that in mind. We're keeping an eye on Greece to see how it plays out. Our main concern is the people and how desperate they may get with the financial hardship. We're pretty sure it'll still be safe, but we're thinking of some backup plans.

David - lol I'm curious to hear how you backpack, I'm sure you've got lots of great tips! Anyhow we can't really rough it out on our honeymoon, maybe next time. We're reducing Paris to 6 nights. We'd like to do Naples, but it's got a bad rep - and we won't feel as safe as we would in Rome. Thanks for the congrats.

Chani - We may stay overnight in Alsace, we'd like to hear if you think it's worth it.

Douglas - Flying from Paris to Venice was our original plan, but we really wanted to visit Colmar. We may end up doing the direct Paris flight if the consensus is that Colmar isn't worth an overnight trip. We have changed our itinerary to 4 nights in London and 6 nights Paris.
To answer your question "If you are not into Rome, why not just spend 1-2 nights there and spend a couple nights in Amalfi where you might enjoy the scenery and food more." We would have done 2 nights in Amalfi and flown out of there, but we found the flights out of Amalfi to Greece more expensive than flying out of Rome. We're planning a 2 hour cushion for train and flights. I'm hoping that's enough. Do you think that's sufficient?

Lyndlamb1 - We're getting married in February so we have a few months. Our wedding's small and informal so we won't be stressed at all. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with Venice. I'm hoping we'll be fine, but do you have any thoughts on where/what we should avoid? We want to spend some time in Venice; it's on our bucket list! Thanks for the hotel recommendation, I'll checked that out in a few months.
We may end up removing Athens from our itinerary. If we miss it, it's alright.
We're flying to Milan to catch an Emirates flight, they only do Milan-JFK, unfortunately.

Sherry - You made some very good points and convinced us to stay overnight. Do you think Colmar is worth the overnight trip, or do you think it's better to skip Colmar altogether? Any recommendations for Colmar lodging and eateries?
May I ask why we should take the train to Pisa and start the tour there? I was thinking we would have less to worry about if we meet our driver in Florence.

Tap water in Italy is good, just not the water that's in the canals.

I just spent 4 days in Alsace and loved it. It just didn't seem worth going way out of your way to get there for a few hours. As an overnight stop, it could be fine. Take a couple hours to see the heart of Strasbourg too and it's very special cathedral.

You wrote We're planning a 2 hour cushion for train and flights. I'm hoping that's enough. I'm not sure what you mean by that. You need to be at the train station for the Eurostar to Paris about 45 minutes before departure to go through security and passport procedures. For other trains, you just need to be at the station in time to find what track your train is on and get to it. Trains usually leave on time. Some train stations are large and more difficult to navigate. How long it takes to get to the train station depends on the time of day and means of travel. For instance, in Paris, the bus can get bogged down in traffic but the metro is generally reliable for time. In Venice, walking to the train station can be faster than the vaporetto (water bus). It's about 1/2 hour on foot (if you don't get lost), but can take an hour on the vaporetto. For flights, you need to allow time to get to the airport, check in, go through security, etc. and get to the boarding gate. Take into account that you will probably need to check your backpacks on the flights. Carry on limits are lower than on transcontinental flights, both size and weight.

Chani - I'd like to check out Strasbourg if we end up ahead of schedule. Regarding the 2 hour cushion - we plan to leave early enough to be at the train station 2 hours before our departure time (or 2 hours before boarding time for airports). I think that should be enough time to handle delays in traffic or getting lost.

Thank you for the Venice vaporetto tip. I didn't realize it takes an hour to get to the airport. We'll be sure to leave early enough that morning. I think we'll be fine with our backpacks. They'll be under 30 lbs and small (we have osprey farpoint 40 backpacks). We're also leaving our clothes behind so there'll be less of a load as each day passes. All our gifts will be from NYC (checked bags will be free there). We're hoping to ship our Europe souvenirs if it's cheap, crossing our fingers.

Domingo,
You wrote: "we plan to leave early enough to be at the train station 2 hours before our departure time (or 2 hours before boarding time for airports)"
2 hours is way way too much for stations, and the minimum for airports.

If it is a big station (like one of the London or Paris stations) and I hadn't been there before, I would aim for 30 minutes, 20 minimum. Venice is a medium sized station, walking up the steps 15 minutes before departure is plenty. The platform number is not posted until 20-30 minutes before departure.
Don't forget on many routes the trains run every hour, or even every half hour. Two hours before means you have to watch 2-4 earlier trains to your destination depart.
My local station is medium-large (19 platforms). I know the layout so I aim to get there 10 minutes before the train departs, but 5 minutes is enough.

Plus, as a special case, there is a 30-45 minute check-in for Eurostar trains London-Paris/Brussels.

For some cut-price airlines you need to be at the airport 2-3 hours before departure.

Thanks Chris. That info is much appreciated, and we'll plan accordingly. I do feel more comfortable being there an hour before our departure. We'll say 1 hour before departure for trains and 3 hours before for flights.

This sounds like a great trip to me. We just returned from 30 days and saw 8 countries, so we were much more ambitious. I have lots of advice but the one thing I would tell you now is if you are taking the train from London to Paris and they tell you to get there two hours before, DO IT. We almost missed our train because our connections held us up. We were rushed through customs and security so we would not miss the train. It was stressful! Other trains we aimed for 15-20 min. before departure and never missed one.

We did Italy in about 8 days and it was ambitious but we saw the highlights. Wished we had had more time in Venice. Florence was awesome, Naples awesome but you couldn't pay me to go back to Rome. I loved the sites, though. You will not regret Pisa, we did a three hour stopover from Florence to Italy. So worth it!

We made a really ambitious trip and never felt very tired. We are not nightlife people either so most nights we made sure we got 7-8 hours of sleep to make sure we were fresh. We had some train time and it was very possible to sleep on the trains when we did get less sleep.

Jenny

For me the points of difference in backpacking are ...
1 Extended period of travel
2 Limited funds so watching the $$$
3 Relying on trains and buses
4 Staying in hostels
5 Slower travel - minimum stay of 3 nights at any one location
6 Nights spent socialising with fellow travellers
7 Ability to 'write off' a day at a moments notice due to (6) above
8 Nothing pre-booked, neither accommodation nor transport
9 No detailed itinerary, just a sketchy plan
10 Ticking off the iconic sights rather than spending hours in museums

Both the Acropolis in Athens and all of Venezia are magical at night. Like you, I don't mind getting to a train station early, having a coffee, watching the people.

Sounds like a lovely trip. Congratulations!

I have an idea that would be an alternative to Greece if that proves to be a problem. We spent a month in Italy last year including 10 days in Sicily. The Greek and Roman ruins and mosaics in Sicily were amazing. Nice beaches and islands as well. and pretty accessible from Rome as a flight. Just a thought.