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Have a backup credit card for gas pumps

Maybe not new info...but just wanted to share some insight for the folks who are travelling via rental car.

I stopped by a Total gas station in Bayeux yesterday and they don't have an attendant, just a sign that states that "you must pay at the pump".

I followed the instructions in English and my card (Chase Credit Card) got declined multiple times.
Yes, I've made my travel notifications, and have been using my card for the past 4 days with no issues, so that wasn't the problem.
I used my backup card (Capital One) and it worked like a charm. Additionally, you don't need to make travel notifications if you have a Capital One credit card.

I've only noticed this issue with my Chase card on the pay at the pump gas stations. I didn't have issues with paying with the attendant on the other times I've used it to fill up.

Bottom line: Have a back up card (or cash)

Cheers.

Posted by
6788 posts

First - one should always have more than one credit card with you when traveling. Any card can fail, leaving you up the proverbial creek (if you really want your bases covered, have several, all issued by different banks). Same for debit/ATM cards.

Second - what you ran into was almost certainly not a "problem" with your Chase card. It was probably the "3-D Secure" system now in place across Europe - typically encountered by Americans trying to make purchases online (most commonly for train tickets) or at unattended point-of-sales stations (ie gas stations, a few other systems) when paying with most US credit cards. This system is incompatible with most US-issued credit cards. It simply rejects your card and never bothers your bank, so they can't fix it for you.

3-D Secure credit card payments - wha???
Problems with Capital One?

Posted by
2945 posts

My Hot Wife and me always carry at least two cards each, so we get what, four strikes?

My card was eaten in Paris, but that was my fault as the card was old and I should have replaced it prior to travel, so be careful with well worn cards. I shan't make that mistake again.

Posted by
5714 posts

I like having three credit cards. VISA, AMEX, Mastercard. I think it is helpful to have the different companies. I rarely use the mastercard at home. It came in very handy in Spain where it seemed to be the preferred card for some situations.

Posted by
4132 posts

Your card may have been declined because it is not a true chip & pin.

Posted by
5697 posts

We carry a Barclays Bank card for Lufthansa Miles and More program -- true chip and pin. It has worked for us at unattended gas pumps and tollbooths where my Chase card was inoperative.

Posted by
2555 posts

If you want to use a US credit card at a pay-at-the-pump fueling location, at a minimum you need a card with a functioning PIN. Some chip & signature cards have PINs (issued for purchases at unmanned locations) and some do not.

Simply having a credit card with a PIN does NOT make it a chip & PIN card as probably 95% of all US bank issued cards are chip & signature. When traveling outside of the US and making a purchase at a restaurant, hotel, or store, (anywhere there is staff) do you sign or do you enter your PIN? Most will sign, those with chip & PIN cards must use the PIN.

Paying the attendant was never the issue when purchasing gas. It has always been buying gas with NO attendant and for that, few US credit cards are accepted.

Posted by
2786 posts

Will a debit card work in lieu of a credit card at the unattended gas pump?

Posted by
2555 posts

I have never seen a report of anyone successfully refueling at a pay-at-the-pump location with just a debit card but can certainly try.

Consider the dilemma for a Frenchman traveling to the US and attempting to purchase fuel at a pay-at-the-pump location. He will get no farther than the zip code request.

Posted by
773 posts

Just about all French "credit cards" are actually debit cards. The likelyhood of a US card working for fuel is the same whether it is debit or credit

Posted by
1321 posts

I've learned to bring my debit card ... never seems to experience any problems. First I try my credit card .... than my debit card.

Posted by
1626 posts

We purchased gas in Italy at an unattended gas station. No luck with credit card (Chase), but capital one debit card worked with Pin.

Another reason to have backup credit cards. My husband had his CC card in his hand ready to pay and the chip popped out. We were due for new cards in a month, so maybe the glue got tired. No problem as we used another card.

Posted by
2916 posts

Simply having a credit card with a PIN does NOT make it a chip & PIN card as probably 95% of all US bank issued cards are chip & signature.

It's not necessarily that simple. I have an Andrews FCU card, which I got several years ago specifically because I wasn't able to get gas one Sunday when only unattended gas pumps were available. It's arguably a chip and signature, because a signature is required whenever a person is present. But it has a PIN that works at unmanned gas stations, train station machines, and metro/tram ticket machines.

Posted by
2555 posts

Robert - what you have is a chip & signature card with a functional a PIN for purchases at unmanned locations. As previously stated, not all chip & signature cards are alike. Not all have a functioning PINs allowing transactions at unmanned locations.

I understand that Andrews now has some chip & PIN cards with PIN entry as the default authorization mode. When USAA first issued their chip cards they too were chip & PIN with PIN acceptance as the default. Unfortunately, USAA changed to chip & signature with functional PINs but the default acceptance method is now signature.

Posted by
168 posts

...and so it happened again to me today at a restaurant (the first one that is not a gas station).
First I thought it was just an Apple Pay error, but the waiter tried the actual card twice and got the same decline/refuse notification when he inserted my card to the portable/mobile payment device they bring.

And again...my Capital One card worked without error (And I know I'm beginning to sound one of those paid folks from infomercials).
I've contacted the Chase Support and I don't think the folks that were trying to help me know what is going on...let alone the 3-D Secure system. They just kept insisting that I was doing something wrong and that they don't see any declined transactions on their end, even though I told them that I can provide the receipts that stated "declined" and "abandon debit".

Posted by
6788 posts

I've contacted the Chase Support and I don't think the folks that were trying to help me know what is going on...let alone the 3-D Secure system.

As I indicated in my threads liked above, IME many (most?) customer service agents of American banks have never heard of the "3-D Secure" system, so are completely unable to help you (so after you've asked them once, stop wasting your time and theirs by asking them over and over to "unblock" your card...they not blocking it).

The problem with the technology is that it is NOT your credit-card issuing bank that is declining the charge; the charge never goes to your bank....so they never see it. The transaction is blocked at the source (the system that initiates the charge), not at the destination (your credit card company).

So it's actually quite understandable that your credit card CS agent has no idea what is going on. They don't see any charges attempted, no activity at all. It would be nice if the credit card companies trained their employees better so they could understand why customers keep calling them saying "stop declining my transactions!!!" when no transactions have been declined, but...when Chase makes me CEO I'll work on that. Until then, we all have to be the smart ones in the transaction.

Posted by
168 posts

As I indicated in my threads liked above, IME many (most?) customer service agents of American banks have never heard of the "3-D Secure" system, so are completely unable to help you (so after you've asked them once, stop wasting your time and theirs by asking them over and over to "unblock" your card...they not blocking it).
The problem with the technology is that it is NOT your credit-card issuing bank that is declining the charge; the charge never goes to your bank....so they never see it. The transaction is blocked at the source (the system that initiates the charge), not at the destination (your credit card company).
So it's actually quite understandable that your credit card CS agent has no idea what is going on. They don't see any charges attempted, no activity at all. It would be nice if the credit card companies trained their employees better so they could understand why customers keep calling them saying "stop declining my transactions!!!" when no transactions have been declined, but...when Chase makes me CEO I'll work on that. Until then, we all have to be the smart ones in the transaction.

...so if you're saying that the 3D systems is main cause for all these declined transactions....why is it not consistent across the board? You've linked threads of folks with Capital One issues, yet I haven't experienced any (so far) with my card.

Also...my declined transaction receipt states:

"Pre-Authorized Debit Declined"
"Customer Amount Request 150.00 EUR"
"Pre-authorize amount 0.00 EUR"

This info also matches the pending amount deducted and deposited on my Chase app. Which means there is a log with Chase about the declined transaction. It's just a matter of going to the next level of knowledgeable rep that can search their logs and answer this issue. Also...I never said I called them over and over to unblock my card....so I don't know where you got that statement. And lastly, its not about wasting my time or theirs...it's about getting the right answers.

Posted by
6788 posts

so if you're saying that the 3D systems is main cause for all these declined transactions

No, I'm saying it is a likely explanation for what you are describing: 1) you attempt to use your card, but get some kind of "failure" message back; 2) you contact your credit card issuer who tells you that they have not declined any charges and they are not/will not block the charge. At least that's what I thought you described.

You've linked threads of folks with Capital One issues, yet I haven't experienced any (so far) with my card.

Don't be too focused on the credit card brand, instead find out who is blocking the charge (at what point in the transaction). Some people have reported they could not get charges through a Capital One card, other people have reported no problems. A report of "success" is hard to ascribe, and many people conflate details (read the threads I linked to carefully, you will see otherwise well-informed people repeating over and over "it's just a fraud-detection system, it happens all the time, just call your bank and they will OK it" - and that completely missed what's going on). Personally, I don't have a Capital One card (do not like the company for other reasons). I do have credit cards issued by pretty much every other major card company. Every one of them failed for me, due to the 3-D Secure system (eventually confirmed to me by the vendor). I'm not going to continue explaining it endlessly - it's well documented in the threads I linked to.

my declined transaction receipt states...(stuff)

I have no idea what that means and it probably means nothing.

This info also matches the pending amount deducted and deposited on my Chase app. Which means there is a log with Chase about the declined transaction.

but...

I've contacted the Chase Support and I don't think the folks that were trying to help me know what is going on...let alone the 3-D Secure system. They just kept insisting that I was doing something wrong and that they don't see any declined transactions on their end, even though I told them that I can provide the receipts that stated "declined" and "abandon debit".

If the Chase employee says they see no declined transactions, I would be inclined to believe them. Whatever some point-of-sale machine spits out on piece of paper (with technical details probably lost in translation) does not matter. I would not put a lot of faith in the literal text strings of that print out, which is basically telling you what you already know: "your purchase failed. you were not charged". You've probably seen dumb error messages on computer screens before, right? This could be one.

That said...

This info also matches the pending amount deducted and deposited on my Chase app. Which means there is a log with Chase about the declined transaction.

If that is the case, you should indeed call Chase and ask them WTH is going on, and why one of their systems (the app) says there was an attempt to charge your account (subsequently reversed), but the, system that the CS agent looked at said there were no attempted charges.

The other thing that's (extra) odd about what you are reporting is that in your case it was not an automated, unattended machine running the charge. I've only heard of 3-D Secure being used for online transactions and at unattended POS systems (gas stations and train stations are the examples always mentioned). This is the first time I've heard of anyone having the problem at a restaurant (presumably that restaurant had live human staff).

But the bottom line is this: you need to figure out at which end of the transaction the purchase process was interrupted. If it's 3-D Secure intervening, your bank will have no record of the transaction. If Chase says they have no record of any attempted charge that was declined, I'd suspect 3-D Secure as the cause. But if it depends on who you ask at Chase...beats me.

Posted by
2555 posts

knhellesky - you have a problem with your Chase card. If it is being rejected at a restaurant, a location which needs only your signature, you might as well take the card out of your wallet.

If Chase is not blocking their card and have no knowledge of blocked transactions, it could be Visa blocking it. It could also be the French processor or the vendor´s batch processor blocking it for some reason (not likely in this case).

3D Secure should come into play for CNP (card not present) transactions, not necessarily for transactions with a card physically present.

I would just wait until I returned and use the Capital One card for your trip. Either that or you need to call Visa directly.

Posted by
168 posts

Appreciate all the inputs/suggestions from everyone. Chase did email back stating that someone will contact me about these issues I was experiencing.

We’re heading back to the states today...and as as a final experiment... I bought train tix from Paris Nord to CDG (RER B) using my Chase card waiting for it to be decline....but it didn’t. The screen even prompted for a PIN for about a second, then the screen showed transaction authorized and tickets printed.

I’ll post back on any new info I gather from Chase.

Thanks again folks.

Posted by
2555 posts

The screen even prompted for a PIN for about a second,

The PIN pad screens always say this as it is their default response to any charge request. Once your card´s no verification message is received by the terminal (a 10.30€ ticket to CDG is below your banks no verification threshold), the PIN request drops from view and your charge is approved. Any PIN input you might make is ignored by the terminal.

I have used these machines above my banks no verification threshold and the PIN message eventually changes to English and waits for the correct PIN entry before approving the transaction.

I didn't have issues with paying with the attendant

This issue is never what you are buying; gas or food or for a hotel. This issue is how you authorize the requested transaction. If it´s not possible to sign a receipt (for example: purchases at an unmanned location), many US card holders will either need to pay cash, if possible, or go elsewhere.

Posted by
2916 posts

It would be nice if the credit card companies trained their employees better so they could understand why customers keep calling them saying "stop declining my transactions!!!" when no transactions have been declined,

Then they'd have to pay them a living wage.

I understand that Andrews now has some chip & PIN cards with PIN entry as the default authorization mode.

I'm not going to even try to contact them about getting one. They're impossible to deal with. The card has always worked at unmanned gas stations and transportation ticket machines, so that's fine with me.