Carrying Passports around?

Here's a link to a french government website, it's kind of confusing.
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1036?lang=en

• You need to prove your identity and that you are in legal stay in France.
• You can prove your identity by presenting one of the following documents: residence permit, passport, driving license...
• Testimony may be accepted. For example, the person with you confirms your identity.

The first bullet point says you need to prove you are there legally, which usually means a visa or a stamp in a passport, but then the 2nd and 3rd bullet points say you can prove identity with a drivers license or even have someone vouch for you. I always keep my passport in my hidden pocket anyway; but no sense going down that much debated road.

A common topic here with strong opinions. Just got home from a Northern Italy tour and one of our members lost her passport in a rest stop bathroom. She missed the last three days of our tour going first to Venice and then Milan in search of an emergency replacement from our embassy. Our tour guide counseled us to carry a photo but not the original, which they wanted in the hotel safe. But as you note, you’re supposed to be carrying it. You decide.

I put it in a money belt under my clothes in transit (e.g. on the train in from the airport). Then I stow it in the hotel safe or at the apartment and carry my driver's license and a copy of the passport. I figure if I am being braced for my papers I have bigger problems than having to fetch the passport from the apartment. If I take a day trip far from paris then I carry it in the money belt under my clothes.

I have had an appointment at the US embassy and watched people wailing and gnashing teeth as their trips are disrupted due to a lost purse with passport or a pickpocket. While pickpockets don't really want passports, they want the other things in your purse, wallet, backpack etc.

https://search.ricksteves.com/?button=&filter=Travel+Forum&query=Passport+&utf8=✓

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/trip-planning/travel-documents

Your passport is your most important possession while traveling abroad
That and a credit card is your ticket home

Why would you leave it unattended or out of your possession?

Keep it on your person, deep in a money belt or other secure fashion

I'm with Team SusanM. The more you move your passport from place to place, the greater the chances you will drop it or lose it. I'd argue this includes deeply secured money belts -- every time you go into the belt for a credit card or cash, the passport has an opportunity to fall out. Sure, you may be a careful and meticulous person, but jetlag and an unfamiliar environment can put a dent in your skills.

Given the unlikelihood of being asked for a piece of identity that's more convincing than your driver's license, it makes more sense to carry a color copy of the passport, and leave the real thing in a hotel safe. Unless you're in a hostel or a very bad hotel, your passport is safer staying put. What happens more often: your hotel room is robbed, or you drop items from your purse or money belt?

OK, come at me, passport-on-person folks. :)

I do what ChritineH does. Anything can happen that can prevent you from returning to your lodging.

Passport and other important stuff is kept in neck wallet under shirt, deep storage - I do not access the neck wallet during the day, outside the hotel. I carry in front zippered pockets any CC I might need during the day, plus some small amount of local currency. Also my iPhone in another front zippered pocket that I will always use to pay for stuff if Apple Pay is accepted, otherwise I will use cash for nominal purchases, or finally I will use my CC.

As SusanM says, it's a choice and nothing to get hot under the collar about. It can be lifted or lost when walking around, it can get stolen from your hotel room safe - which do you think is the most likely scenario? It can become creased in your bag, you may spill a drink on it, the ceiling in your hotel room may leak and drip water onto your passport sitting on the table: a passport may be declined at the airport if badly tarnished.

I'm a senior now. I don't think I'll get a stiff fine or thrown into the clink if I'm stopped in France or Germany by the secret police, overly eager to see my passport. People who do far worse are still roaming the streets. My opinion only. You decide.

I got a Passport Card when I last renewed my passport. I keep the Passport in my hotel room and walk around with the card if I need proof of identification. BTW - has anyone had the experience of having a passport stolen from their hotel room? I’ve never seen a post here of that happening.

I have traveled overseas since 1962 and have never carried my passport except when in transit.

We carry our passport with us at all times in either a money belt or pouch around our next. We do this so we consistently doing the same thing. Never been asked for ID while walking around a city.

I have had to show a drivers license and IDP a couple of time.

If you are moving a lot, I would carry it with me.

BTW - has anyone had the experience of having a passport stolen from
their hotel om? I’ve never seen a post here of that happening.

I'm sure it's rare but here's a post I created a few years ago about a family who missed their cruise because their hotel room was broken into. Passports were one of many things missing. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/travel-insurance-for-all-circumstances-anyone-ever-had-to-make-a-claim

A money belt is not a purse. You don't dip in and out of it for money or a credit card. It is a body safe that you never open in public and if properly worn is undetectable. (harder to do in summer if you are lightly dressed)

I'm one of those wear it all the time people. As an old solo traveler, I want to have my most important identity document under my clothes for people to find if something happens to me and I can't speak.

It helps that the money belt style I've used for years is definitely undetectable because it forms to my body. After many flirtations with the money belts that are too small and stiff and have belts that can easily come unsnapped, I got my first one like this when I weighed about 50 pounds more than I do now and never looked back. The 2 sizes smaller one I got after the weight loss works equally as well.

I don’t care what the weather is like, wet or dry, hot or cold. I don't care if the passport develops a curve. It'll flatten out. I've learned that sealing the passport in a ziploc bag makes it more likely to get damp than if I cut the zip part off or pierce the bag with holes to let it breathe like a vegetable bag.

It's obvious that for security it should be worn under your clothes, not outside them. The formula that works for me from the skin out is: skin, bra, shapewear (or regular) tank, StashBandz money belt, panties, bottoms (always pants for me) and top.

That's my money belt story and I'm sticking to it.

We were on a RS tour a few years ago and the tour was delayed twice when we had to return to a hotel to get someone’s passport they left in their room safe. Twice, two different people. I never leave anything in a room safe. Wear a money belt.

OP here. When in Italy I always kept in in a money belt pinned to my underwear (yes, those clips can unhook). I was just wondering if a copy would suffice.

Thanks Allan, for the actual instructions. I agree, sort of fuzzy.

I never walk around with my passport. It is just too valuable. I did get one of those passport cards when they became available and now carry that around in case it is ever needed. Neither has been needed for any reason so far except to fly home.

I never walk around with my passport. It is just too valuable.

The precise reason why the where to keep your passport issue will never be solved. I never leave my passport in my hotel room. It is just too valuable.

I never leave my passport in my hotel room. It is just too valuable.

If I was booked into a hotel where I didn't trust my belongings, I'd find another hotel.

What did they need passports for that they had to return to the hotel for them? The only things I have needed passports for are banking, phone sim purchase and of course boarder control. Or did they actually forget and leave them in the safe? I always fear that and so the night before we leave a hotel or apartment I put my moneybelt on the hangar with the clothing set out to wear on departure.

I use a moneybelt that hooks in the front but the pouch sort of rides below the waist in back. I usually wear black fairly high rise jeans, and then either a light jacket or travel shirt as jacket or coat and so the belt is not observable.

We’ve been randomly asked to show our passports twice-in Italy

Pretty sure we had to show at Last Supper and maybe Scrovegni ?

anyway
Glad we had them safe on our person
We hardly notice we are wearing money belts

Regardless of that is required by law (I am not interested in that) in that particular country in Europe, I carry the passport on me anyway but not in the hidden pocket. It is exactly because the passport is valuable and needed to return that I carry it instead of some copy. That passport was on me all the time in France, regardless , and Germany on this last trip when out and about.

“What did they need passports for that they had to return to the hotel for them?”

The tour was moving on to the next stop. One guy checked out and left his passport in the hotel room safe in Hallstatt, the other in Munich. We lost several hours of tour time. I keep my passport in my money belt at all times.

There are actually two laws; one common to all travel within the Schengen area, specifically that you can prove you are traveling within the Schengen requirements; not exceeding the 90 day limitation for example. Only a passport with its integral entry stamp can definitively prove that.

The other is that you have ID (as linked in post #1). A passport works for both, but losing a passport is the very last thing you want.

Keep your passport in the most secure location you have.

We were on a RS tour a few years ago and the tour was delayed twice
when we had to return to a hotel to get someone’s passport they left
in their room safe. Twice, two different people. I never leave
anything in a room safe. Wear a money belt.r

I know a gentleman that runs a couple of Airbnb's. Never met a passport theft or "i lost it" victim. But had 3 leave the passport in the room safe and miss flights having to return.

The risk manager side of me... I always leave necessary documents next to my shoes (shoes pointed in the direction of the exit door)...purse, money belt, whatever contains them. If I have to evacuate the hotel quickly due to fire or whatever, especially in the middle of the night, I don't want to have to think or pause. I'm certainly not going to pause and remember how to open the room safe... Yes, the risk is low, but then so is the risk of pickpocketing, IMO, if one is semi secure with their belongings, as one should be anywhere, even at home. Yes, anything can happen to anyone, anywhere. I'll protect against the worst scenarios that I can, but I'll rely on myself, not something else. While I might keep an extra CC in a suitcase that would be left behind, I can exit with all I need to move on...and that means my passport whether out and about, or an easy emergency exit from my accommodations. YMMV

If you have 50 or stamps in your passport, you can be sure they will flip through every page and stamp to find what they looking for, and it's not merely your photo and name.

Would the passport card suffice if a passport and identification was requested? I usually have my passport with me in the money belt or neck wallet, but I always keep the passport card in a separate hidden ankle wallet with emergency cash and credit card, but many times I would just like to leave the full passport at the hotel in the safe while I am sightseeing. Any opinions?

I'd be interested to know what tourists in the USA do, considering the 100 mile law. I also wonder if people from the USA would approve of the "just ignore the law if it inconveniences you" attitude in visitors to their own country.

Passports aren't worth stealing. They really aren't. Especially foreign passports. If a passport is stolen it's because it was with something instantly disposable for cash. Otherwise it goes in the nearest convenient trash can.

Keep your passport with you, keep it somewhere safe. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity: bags left on cafe tables, pockets gaping, or backpacks not closed and still on your back on the metro.

I carried my passport for 30 years or so, and now I carry my french ID card (much more valuable in France). It would never occur to me not to.

If you're interested in reading what the law says, it's here:
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F31208?lang=en

Simon, according to your link .....

What papers must the foreigner present during the inspection?

For a short stay For a stay of up to 90 days, the foreigner must
present a passport bearing a endorsement valid (unless part of the
exempt nationalities).

Simon, without passing any judgment on people who prefer not to carry their passport, and for the sole purpose of getting what are presumably the fact out so people can make informed decisions, this is also from your link.

What's this about?

Deduction for verification of the right of residence is an
administrative measure. It permits the detention of a foreigner who is
unable (or refuses) to present his visa or residence permit.

It may intervene at the time of a residence permit check or a identity
check.

It allows the police to check whether the foreigner has the right to
stay in France.

Detention may be followed, if necessary, by removal.

Conduct of the procedure

Only one judicial police officer may decide on the withholding.

The public prosecutor shall be informed at the beginning of the
procedure.

The officer (or the designated judicial police officer) checks that
the foreigner has a valid residence document (passport, visa,
residence permit). Foreigner may present it spontaneously.

His luggage and personal belongings can be searched.

If the foreigner does not provide any elements or documents, his
fingerprints or photographs may be taken to establish his right of
residence.

Minutes shall be drawn up. It's forwarded to the prosecutor.

The foreigner is invited to sign it, but it can refuse to do so.

Location and duration of the detention

The foreigner is held in a police or gendarmerie room.

The retention period varies according to the control at the origin of
the measure.

Répondez aux questions successives et les réponses s’afficheront
automatiquement Vous avez choisi Choisissez votre cas Identity check
Control of residence permit

Rights of the foreigner

From the outset of the proceedings, the foreigner must be informed of
the reasons for the detention and its maximum length.

This information shall be given to him in a language which he
understands or is supposed to understand.

The foreigner is also informed about his rights:

To be assisted by an interpreter To be assisted by a lawyer (chosen by
him or a clerk of the court) and to speak with him as soon as he
arrives To be examined by a doctor To inform his family at any time
and, if he is responsible for minors, to have contact for their care
To notify the consular authorities of his country The foreigner may
ask his lawyer to attend the hearings.

The lawyer must be present within the hour of being informed.

The 1re The hearing may begin without counsel if it concerns the
identity check of the detainee.

Withholding End

The outcome of the deduction may be different depending on the
findings made.

The judicial police officer may decide:

Either release the foreigner (if it is found that he is regular stay
or that his application for a residence permit is being examined)
Either to pronounce a detention center placement or a house arrest if
a removal measure has been decided Or to place the foreigner in police
custody, in particular in the case of an offense of unlawful retention
(a foreigner who is the subject of a removal order which is still
enforceable, but who remains in France without a legitimate reason)

"what's this about?"

That's about right of residence. If you're in France for 90 days or less the bit about 90 days or less applies:

The papers of a foreigner present in France, regardless of his nationality and age, can be checked by the police (police, gendarmerie, customs) during an identity check or a residence permit. These checks must comply with certain rules (competent authorities, reasons for the inquiry, conditions of place and time, etc.).

For a short stay
For a stay of up to 90 days, the foreigner must present a passport bearing a endorsement valid (unless part of the exempt nationalities).

That's what is says. In very plain English.

I don't carry a passport card and don't want to either. Only the passport would do since it contains the info the police are looking for.

6 RS trips. We both use money belts full time, with our passport, a CC, 500 cash, list of hotels, never needed any of it except to loan cash to our travel mates. But would get us home if needed.
We also experienced delays for forgotten PP or stolen purse while in our hotel restaurant in London.
To many natural disasters. Better safe than sorry.

I was just reading a post on an Italy travel page on Facebook of an American couple's first day in a Rome. They had a rental car that they parked in public lot in Trastevere in the morning and left their luggage hidden in the trunk as their AirBnB wasn't ready. Later in the day when they got back, the luggage was gone. Luckily they had their passports and critical documents with them.

I always bring a neck wallet with me to carry a credit card and passport in under my clothes. But frankly I’m traveling when is the weather is nice and warm, so I am wearing light weight shirts. More and more women’s pants and shorts do not have a belt loops so there’s nothing to hook a wallet to. I use primarily iPacsafe cross bodies (small, just enough for phone, small wallet, comb, etc.) on a daily basis while traveling in Europe, and it is always literally across my neck and across my body. everything has a locking zipper, and so ultimately for all my trips so far, I have carried my passport in my day handbag, which is small in an interior pocket of a secure Crossbody. Even when I sit to eat, the handbag is across my body in my lap or locked around my leg and the chair. Knock on wood, 20 years and no problem. If they’re going to take the ID and everything else they have to take me with it. I do occasionally if the hotel, I am in offers a safe in the room leave my passport and certain prescriptions in the safe during the day but that is very seldom. I carry a passport card with me and that has sufficed so far as the actual IDI I am present or leave in exchange for an audio guide. In general, though, I am not comfortable leaving my passport in the room or my luggage 90% of the time carry it on me.