UK pub food

There's a thread of Calvinistic puritanism going back to the time of the pilgrims that exists in American society that makes the idea of going somewhere just to drink seem slightly morally wrong maybe. Those ideas never really took hold to any great degree in mainstream society here. Thoughts?

I suspect travelers to the US search out diners for an "authentic" American experience.
Same for pubs in the UK.

I suspect travelers to the US search out diners for an "authentic" American experience.
Same for pubs in the UK.

I get that American travelers want to go to pubs for the authentic British experience - I just wonder where the idea that eating an indifferent microwaved pie was part of that experience. :-)

But yeah, I guess you mean eating terrible food thinking you’re being authentic.

Anyway, a few pints and a couple of bags of crisps or peanuts followed by a late night kebab is how we did pubs in my day.

Pubs as somewhere to go to eat is a concept that has only really taken hold in the last couple of decades or so. The "authentic" pub experience involves booze and booze alone.

In the States, pubs = bistros, grills etc, places to eat and drink.

GerryM, you made me laugh. There are plenty of places in the USA that people go to just drink, from the big cosmopolitan cities to the tiny places with only a crossroad and maybe a church, a couple of houses and a few bars.

There are plenty of places in the USA that people go to just drink, from the big cosmopolitan cities to the tiny places with only a crossroad and maybe a church, a couple of houses and a few bars.

Maybe I was overstating it, but there's definitely cultural differences that set the British attitude to drink apart from the American. To dismiss that and say that an American bar is no different to a pub is missing some nuance I think. It's no laughing matter. Drinking is serious business here :)

I liked UK pubs for the atmosphere (and yes, of course, for the pints.) US pubs/grills/cafes are less likely to have the low-ceiling, wood-everywhere, lots-of-nooks-and-crannies cozy situation that we enjoyed in many UK pubs. But I must also give a shout out to experiencing a Sunday roast (Pride of Paddington, June 2025.) It was really good and part of the whole UK vibe we loved. The US equivalent (Sunday buffets - shudder) is just not the same.

Clarifying the above discussion -- in New York City, bars were barred from serving only drink in an off-kilter attempt to decrease drunkenness, and that is why bars were required to have food of some kind, leading to a competition among bar owners to have snack menus or free snacks.

Other places in the USA have different regs.

In general, a bar might not have food, a pub almost certainly does have some food, and a tavern probably does have food. Another complication: kitchen hours often don't match open hours.

In the colonies and early states there was indeed a lot of religious influence on drinking habits and laws. Pennsylvania is still less booze and beer friendly than its neighbors.

Just as in earlier iterations of Paris people went to Montmartre because alcohol tax and service rules were more lax than inside the old borders, so still today Ohioans near the border with Kentucky will head across the river to get drunk more easily. And so on...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I look to eat at pubs in the UK because I like the food, usually, and I like to have a good pint to accompany it. My personal opinion is that fish & chips without beer is like breakfast without coffee. And I can assure everyone that I don't care sweet FA about "authenticity." Heck, I've eaten "Chinese" and "Indian" food in England. Even (gasp!) pizza.

I have to say that I find some of the condescending comments regarding Americans and pubs to be laughable. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Maybe I was overstating it, but there's definitely cultural differences that set the British attitude to drink apart from the American. To dismiss that and say that an American bar is no different to a pub is missing some nuance I think. It's no laughing matter. Drinking is serious business here :)

Really good points, all, but I guarantee I've entered UK pubs that reminded me of nothing more than an old-fashioned US dive bar. Not my kind of place, to be honest.

Not very relevant for people travelling from the US, but pubs are the best places to eat when you are out with your dog. That's one of the reasons we wind up eating in pubs so frequently (tho we do appreciate nicer dog friendly restaurants!). The food quality of course can vary massively, tho as I often mention on here I really do think Fuller's have very consistent high quality food, at least by pub standards.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Are there any states that allow smoking indoors these days? I'd rather have a fag than soggy fish and frozen chips at a pub any day of the week if I could get away with it.

A hill i am absolutely prepared to die on is you should NEVER have fish and chips in a pub. They just aren't right.
Pubs don't have the right kind of fryers and they never put the correct amount of salt and vinegar on, which is loads.
If I am being really finicky I don't think they are right unless they have been wrapped in paper for a short while to let them slightly steam but still stay scrunchy. But I will tolerate them straight on a plate if I am eating in a restaurant attached to a chippie.

Roast dinners in a pub are notoriously hit and miss. A lot of the problem is what you like in a roast is quite personal and specific and you are lucky to find a pub that gets it all right. Personal bugbears of mine are roast potatoes that haven't been par boiled before roasting. They are never soft and crispy enough and do not even think of leaving the skins on! Also massive yorkshire puds that have obviously been cooked in advance and left to go leathery. Better three freshly cooked ones than one monstrosity the size of you head!

...places...that people go to just drink...metrpolitan cities to the tiny places...

jeanm, In the late 1970s, there was a small town in Alabama with a population of only 900-1000.

The "hot spot" of the town was named "The First and Last Chance Saloon and Notasaulga Social Club". They only had beer (unless you were friends of the owner) and no food at all. Why I happened to be there at happy hour that one day is a story that will go untold.

A hill i am absolutely prepared to die on is you should NEVER have fish and chips in a pub

Battered fish is indeed a real gamble. So easy to do really badly, both in terms of how it's cooked, and the absolute garbage pieces of cheap fish that aren't cod or haddock that are around at the lower end of the market these days.

A burger is a good bet in a pub. Really hard to get wrong. Even the mankiest little van on an industrial estate or by the side of an A-road can rustle up a satisfactory burger on the cheap, so the odds of getting something halfway edible in a pub are much improved if you stick to something like that.

When I scroll through this forum, I am often reminded of that Violet Crawley line in Downton: "Why does every day involve a fight with an American?” (When told by Cousin Matthew that Thomas Jefferson invented the swivel chair.)

I'm sure this conference will answer all your questions as to why! Actually, this sounds v. interesting. Virtual registration still available. https://www.colonialwilliamsburg.org/research/educational-conferences-forums-symposiums/eat-drink-revolution/

ETA: I love that my 1,000th post on the forum is about taverns. As it should be. ;)

My homemade roast dinner is better than any pub’s but it takes so long to cook you can’t do anything else that morning and then there’s all the washing up.

Interestingly, I've seen some here refer to pubs in the UK as "taverns". I had to look up what a tavern is. It is by definition somewhere that serves alcohol and food. I guess it's a word that went to America in colonial times and fell out of usage here as an actual descriptor. I'd surmise that in the urbanisation that followed the industrial revolution, the tavern and the coaching inn fell out of favour to be replaced by what we would know as a pub.

Of course "tavern" still exists in the name of many pubs. I have a tavern near me; The Pembury Tavern, run by local brewers, Five Points Brewing Company. A favourite with aging Hackney hipsters, a label which I'd both embrace and reject, depending on my mood. I find it a little bit austere and po-faced, with their worthy selection of real ales (an English fascination), "no music" policy and board games. I'd never made the association of the word tavern with the food and drink combo up until now. I thought it was just another word for pub.

Over the past two years, I’ve eaten meals at:
The Swan, Newby Bridge
The Royal Oak, Cartmel
Craven Arms, Appletreewick
Cumberland Arms, Hammersmith
The Architect, Bath (not sure that’s technically a pub)
The Blue Boat, Fulham Reach

I thought the food was good quality and well prepared at all but The Blue Boat—which wasn’t terrible but was not memorable.

All of these outings were for the purpose of having a meal. The Swan and Craven Arms have that cozy atmosphere mentioned above. I didn’t see any food that looked like a frozen dinner. In fact, the food was better than a lot of “regular” restaurants.

As implied by other posters, I’m not going to eat at a pub “just because.” It’s typically the atmosphere and the history that make the difference and draw me in. Also, do you all know how gorgeous the exterior flower baskets are at so many of your pubs? How cheery your riverside picnic tables can be? How cool/interesting so many of the signs and pub names are? Please cut visitors a little slack for wanting to have a meal at a pub in order to enjoy that atmosphere a little longer.

A hill i am absolutely prepared to die on is you should NEVER have fish and chips in a pub. They just aren't right.

And I probably won't ever have the dish anywhere except a pub. Funny how people have different perspectives on stuff like this. But it's interesting that some British people have such a virulent reaction to another person's preferences in where to eat fish and chips.

Please cut visitors a little slack for wanting to have a meal at a pub in order to enjoy that atmosphere a little longer.

I completely get that.

I just want to stress that I’m not trying to criticise American visitors for eating in pubs. I’m not trying to be snobby in some way. I’m more concerned that you might think that pubs represent the best of British food, and that worries me. British food gets so much generic criticism (not by you lovely folks but by other Americans on the internet) and I just don’t want visitors to eat a microwaved pie in a not-good-food pub and think that represents classic British cuisine.

Does that make sense? London in particular has such a wonderful thriving food scene with so many choices, and - I’m just trying to say that pub food can often be really bad and there may well be better places to eat.

I completely get that going to a pub is an absolute must-do for many visitors. Just pointing out that eating food there isn’t necessarily the most traditional British way to enjoy pubs!

It's good to see @Rachel's post above. If you confine yourself to tourist areas than yes you are probably going to get indifferent pub food.
But in the Lake District, for instance, get yourself out of the tourist hotspots like Keswick and Windermere and it really isn't at all hard to get decent pub food. The Swan at Newby Bridge is a shining example of that.

The other legal concept in British licensing laws is the ale house. They are now almost extinct, but used to be a distinctly different concept to the pub. They were no nonsense places where you went for solely a drink, very male oriented. The last time I came across one was probably the late 90's in a remote part of Gloucestershire. There the beer (and nothing but beer) was still fetched in jugs direct from the cellar as and when ordered.
I'm surprised none of our American friends have mentioned the concept of Saloons in the US.
And yes, I'm one who would search out an American diner- not a diner as we have them in the UK where they are normal buildings with an American theme- but the narrower definition of the prefabricated nominally mobile premises of mainly the inter war years.
There is a huge difference between fish and chips in a pub or restaurant, and fish and chips as a take out meal from a fish and chip shop. Two totally different types of meal, even if the same ingredients. Granted, if done well, both are good meals. Both types can vary from bad to mediocre to excellent. And as a take out meal you simply aren't going to get a good quality version in tourist destinations like London or Bath, whatever places may proclaim to be.
Rick's favoured fish and chip shop in Keswick many people would see as highly mediocre, Keswick has better. But you want good come out to the west coast.
But people on this forum would run a mile from my favourite f and c takeout because they would have to pay cash, no cards accepted. It keeps costs down.
People drive to it from miles around.

And also I’m mostly talking about London and big cities when it comes to poor pub food, btw. I probably should make that clear. Out in the countryside it’s a different story.

The Pembury Tavern that I mentioned further up has excellent pizza. Ace Pizza are resident there and have their own proper kitchen with a real pizza oven. If Claudia's reading, The Cat and Mutton at Broadway Market, which we visited at the back end of last year, is also a Five Points Brewing Co. pub, which I didn't realise until looking at the website earlier.

Further to my point about burgers, I was also going to mention the Three Compasses in nearby Dalston. Burger specialists, Filthy Buns, were resident there. On looking this morning, they're now at The Star of Kings in York Way, by Kings Cross. Somewhat handier for the central London visitor and definitely recommended.

Fish and chips from a chippy can be a bit crap sometimes too. I won't mention the name of my local in case they get a hit looking on Google and see me talking about them, but I've sworn off their fish after a couple of disappointing experiences. Again, their burgers are a safe bet. Cooked on a Turkish-style mangal grill next to their shish kebabs, which gives even some quite cheap patties a good flavour, and topped off with the same choice of veg and sauce as the doner kebabs. I was watching some coverage of some rather unfortunate protesting outside an asylum seeker hotel (2025's big thing it seems) and the first thought that came to mind was that they were right next to Kennedy's of Goswell Road, one of the best chippies in London. Well worth the short trip out from central London as a destination, or if you're visiting The Barbican.

jphbucks, don't take it personally mate. I stand with you and your right to enjoy fish and chips with a pint in any pub of your choosing, even if it is a 'spoons :)

What I really want to see in someone's trip report from the UK is a tale of getting absolutely hammered in the pub and getting a midnight kebab on the way back to your lodgings. Not sure that's going to happen on the RSE forum though. Don't puke in the taxi. That gets expensive. (Don't) ask me how I know. Proper authenticity right there.

I strongly agree that fish and chips in a pub vs chippie are different meals and both can be good and bad. It's also true we don't see much discussion of best kebabs on here (certainly not compared to pubs), tho a kebab at the end of the evening is one of the most traditional experiences one can have here! I have some thoughts on best ones, too.

I also strongly agree with this point- "British food gets so much generic criticism (not by you lovely folks but by other Americans on the internet) and I just don’t want visitors to eat a microwaved pie in a not-good-food pub and think that represents classic British cuisine." We have so many great places to eat here but I understand why people want to try pubs when they are visiting.

chippy ≠ pub

clear as day

Pub - especially a country pub, garden with tables and different indoor atmosphere, likely quite a lot of thought went in
serves F&C as part of, and usually a small part of, a much larger menu. Sometimes ambience exceeds food quality, sometimes it is cooked to order food. Fish is probably pre-battered and lives in the freezer. Because the F&C turnover is relatively low it may not be too fresh, and will either be microwaved or dunked in a general purpose fryer to heat up.

Chippy - the vast majority of what is served is fish so the bespoke fryers will be kept busy, the oil relatively fresh and the correct temperature, even if on the rack under the lights it won't have been there long. More choices of fish, and different portion sizes. many places offer grilled and gluten free. Bright lights so people can see what they are getting, and not put on a cold plate. Usually much less expensive and much faster.

In my opinion the best is a chippy with attached restaurant. Actual tables, actual flatware, actual plates, same fish, same chips, bottle of vinegar on the table and saltshakers (pepper too if needed). Not much more atmosphere, but you can't eat atmosphere. That's me...

Further to my rambling about The Pembury Tavern, I had a Google because I remembered going to a rave there about 30 years ago ('94 or '95?). I thought it was squatted, but maybe it was just squatter friendly. No artisanal pizza back then. I happened to meet two of the folks who were DJ'ing there about ten years later in Glasgow.

https://history-is-made-at-night.blogspot.com/2022/10/high-rise-at-pembury-tavern-hackney-1998.html

Just as in earlier iterations of Paris people went to Montmartre because alcohol tax and service rules were more lax than inside the old borders, so still today Ohioans near the border with Kentucky will head across the river to get drunk more easily. And so on...

That was somewhat true many decades ago, Ave, but not in many recent years. Kentucky liquor taxes are a tad lower than Ohio, but not enough to warrant crossing the nightmare called the Brent-Spence bridge. And given that you can buy wine and beer in grocery stores in Ohio, but not in Kentucky, it's a lot easier north of the river. :-) On other drawback is that there is a good chance that the bar you visit to will allow smoking; at least in Campbell County. I think Covington just changed their laws a few years ago to prohibit it.

There are cool bars in northern Kentucky that are worth visiting for the atmosphere, like the ones in Covington Mainstrasse, but no one goes to Kentucky just to get drunk more easily.

ETA: I will say that it applies a bit (or did until recently) to Minnesota. In 2017, the state finally repealed the "blue law" prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sunday (thankfully before I retired and moved there permanently). :-) And the main reason was that the state was losing so much money to Wisconsin, which did allow Sunday sales.

Rachel has it right. It's not the food, it's the convivial atmosphere and history that draws Americans. We've seen hundreds of depictions of British pubs in movies, TV, and books, and it sounds like something we need to experience. Bars and taverns in my city are places for rowdies, singles, and drunk sports nuts, not civilized socializing. Even if it's an obsolete stereotype, a pub sounds more interesting than a posh 4-star dining experience.

Stan, very true! And the atmosphere is even better when the bartender calls you "love", like one did in Haltwhistle. I was about ready to move in. :-)

I was asked if I wanted monkey's blood on my 99 today (of course I did).

I can imagine visitors to the UK being appalled at the thought

What I really want to see in someone's trip report from the UK is a tale of getting absolutely hammered in the pub and getting a midnight kebab on the way back to your lodgings.

For better or worse (mostly better), my days of being able to write such a report preceded my ability to travel regularly to the UK. But I can tell some late-night stories about Primanti Bros in Pittsburgh.

If you know, you know.

Also, if you Brits are smart, you'll petition your chippy to stock a supply of Texas Pete hot sauce. There's absolutely nothing better to put onto hot fried fish.

I agree with Stan…pubs represent for me a quintessential British experience….a pub visit was the first thing we did when we landed ( the steak and kidney pie on the other hand was a one and done experience). Mardee…I have to laugh….your comment reminded me of that time the doorman greeted me as “gov’ner”! I practically floated through the door, a regular toff!

Any fish and chip shop will sell you a little tub of curry sauce and/or a little tub of mushy (never garden, as in a pub) peas as an add on.

Mushy peas are the spawn of the devil. Garden peas only for this Yank. (But I still prefer coleslaw.)

A slightly smaller hill I will die on is that chip shop curry sauce is usually pretty grim and a total waste of calories. It’s not like ‘proper’ curry more like the stuff you get with Japanese Katsu curry. Thick, sweet and not particularly hot. My choice is to add chilli sauce to chip shop gravy.

Bringing it back to food in pubs, if you like a curry it’s worth hunting out a Desi pub. You will find them in Asian suburbs of big cities. The ones in Birmingham are apparently particularly good.

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/travel/uk/discovering-desi-pubs

@Golden Girl, yes, your comments about hoping that visitors experience culinary outings beyond pubs and/or simply enjoy a drink at a pub make sense. :)

Mushy peas are the spawn of the devil.

That's an insult to the devil.

Coming from a city where the oldest building is less than 150 years old, it's the atmosphere of an old pub that has me wanting to visit; it's kidney pie and mushy peas that will have me running for the exits. My two favourite pub experiences were in Bath and Winchester. I can't recall the name of the pub in Bath but the highlight was discovering that dogs were allowed inside; beer became secondary. I'm afraid I may have embarassed myself when I ran from dog to dog wanting to give them pats. Same thing happened in Winchester at the pub in the King Alfred Inn. To save me from extra typing, here's an exceprt from my 2023 Trip Report:

We spent Sunday evening in the pub which may be the coziest pub I’ve
ever been in. I suspect this is the type of pub that people are
talking about when they describe English pubs as a gathering and
socializing space. Plus, a lot of dogs to greet. I was busy patting a
chocolate lab while Carla waited for me nearby when she and a woman
with a dog struck up a conversation. The woman was wondering if Carla
was here alone, and Carla pointed me out and said I’d be over shortly
once I discovered she had a dog as well. She was right, I came over
and greeted the dog and the woman mentioned that she was told by Carla
to expect me. :)

In summary, who cares about food at the pubs. Sure, I'll have a beer, but bring on the dogs!

LOL Allan.

Don’t eat peas in the states or anywhere else. Just don’t.

As far as why I enjoy pub grub is simple. I travel in the cooler months. Walking into a pub offers me these 5 things. Warmth, a pint, a loo, a place to rest tired feet and back and a pleasant meal. Not a fish and chips eater but do love a good stew, sandwich or bowl of soup. Maybe even a burger.

Last trip in 2024 discovered and enjoyed freshly made pasta dishes at the Seven Stars Pub. One of these best meals I’ve ever enjoyed in London was at the Dragon Inn in Richmond and I always enjoy Edgar’s pizzas and salads at the Mitre on St Mary’s Grove in Richmond. Also have had a delicious meal at The Dove, a riverside pub in Hammersmith. Lastly the grilled chicken wraps at the Kurk Grill in North Sheen were fabulous.

For better or worse (mostly better), my days of being able to write such a report preceded my ability to travel regularly to the UK.

My days of drinking to excess are probably over too, but never say never :)

Some of this thread is reminding of an old routine that Ellen DeGeneres would do about a bored goldfish swimming around in its bowl.

The owner adds a tiny treasure chest with gold spilling out and a bubbling diver to the fishbowl, and the goldfish perks up and says, "Wow, just like in the ocean!"

Mardee…I have to laugh….your comment reminded me of that time the doorman greeted me as “gov’ner”! I practically floated through the door, a regular toff!

Denny, I totally get that! It's that accent combined with the cool Brit words!

There's a thread of Calvinistic puritanism going back to the time of the pilgrims that exists in American society that makes the idea of going somewhere just to drink seem slightly morally wrong maybe. Those ideas never really took hold to any great degree in mainstream society here. Thoughts?

I think that pubs do well in the UK because they are very much a local thing. They tend to be in every neighborhood or town, a place for folks to hang out, see their friends, share the news of the day, etc. They exist organically, outside of a lot of puritanical rules and regulations about zoning and whatnot. They are almost entirely walking distance from their patrons' homes - thus the notion of "the local."

The zoning thing is very much relevant. In many parts of the U.S. it is illegal to operate a bar, tavern, or any restaurant that sells alcohol within close distance to a school. This can often block the opening of a neighborhood bar or tavern, forcing it to more commercial or industrial land that, more often than not, isn't walking distance from where people live.

As far as "pub grub" is concerned, it definitely is hit-or-miss. Yes, there are gastropubs that have tried to raise the game in terms of cuisine, but sometimes you want some simple bangers and mash, or roast dinner, or whatever. And folks almost always want an ale, lager, stout, porter, or shandy.

In the States there are the local dive bars that often exist due to being grandfathered into code. But the rise of microbrewery culture has definitely made it easier to find a neighborhood watering hole in many cities that, until recently, lacked a bar or pub culture. One I can think of immediately is Salt Lake City, Utah, where the microbrewing scene is flourishing and local tap rooms are often the place for locals to hang out and unwind.

Totally agree. It's definitely hit or miss.

Old thread, but,

Any fish and chip shop will sell you a little tub of curry sauce and/or a little tub of mushy (never garden, as in a pub) peas as an add on.

Maybe I'm a little out of date, things may have become more Anglicised in more recent years, but I never saw either of those things until moving to England. They don't really fit with the idea of Scottish-Italian chippies where I'm from in the west of Scotland.

I have been known to eat chips and doner meat with garlic sauce from my local Turkish run chippy here in Hackney. Proper heart attack in a polystyrene box material.

perhaps leave politics out of it, and certainly Brexit if you don't understand what was and was not caused by that.

My fish by the way is wrapped in paper and given to me in a paper bag.

An order of kebab meat and chips comes in a box.

Works better that way. Nothing to do with politics.

A good takeaway shop however should have left polystyrene or other plastics behind by now and be using paper/cardboard boxes for the main dish and paper tubs for the side dishes like the sauce or peas. There really isn't an excuse now to be using anything else.

Anywhere still stuck in the plastics era wouldn't get my trade.

Oh, and the Blue Lagoon (Glasgow's big chain of chippies) does mushy peas (as well as deep fried Mars Bars!). They have two handy branches (with different prices!) right beside Glasgow Central Station. The one in the arches is the cheaper one.

I agree that using polystyrene is not ideal. I had a friend from Oakland, California stay with me about five or six years ago and the first thing she mentioned was the polystyrene box too.

I would assume that it is still used to keep costs down. Many of their customers around here are low income and appreciate low prices at the chippy, admittedly at the expense of the environment. The guys who run the chippy, who I have a 20-year relationship with, struggle to make ends meet themselves. I may or may not ask them about their choice of packaging the next time I'm in.

As Nigel quite correctly points out, nothing to do with Brexit, just hood stuff.

Newspaper hasn't been used to wrap fish and chips in 30 years or more. The toxicity of the ink isn't great when it comes to coming into contact with food.

edit: Probably not polystyrene. It's most likely recycled sugarcane, known as bagasse. Environmental disaster averted!

Oh, and the Blue Lagoon (Glasgow's big chain of chippies) does mushy peas

I checked the menus of the chippies I used in Hamilton (Marini's and Di Vito's). Marini's has mushy peas on their menu, Di Vito's doesn't. Both sell curry sauce.

I never rated the Blue Lagoon. The mention of it does make me think of the smell under the Central Station bridge though.

Pubs. So UK and Irish. An allure to anyone traveling there. A must do. A huge desire.
Having recently spent 20 days walking across Ebgland and having no choice buy pubs, I can say the need for pub food has been worn out. Enough to mentally and tastewise demand that I seek out other foods. Outside of the big five of pub food- burgers, steak and ale pies, curries, fried fish, Sunday roast, and endless chips, oh my!
I seek a pizza, italian, Chinese. Anything not served with chips.
I am even tired of sticky pudding.
What can a poor boy do?

my polystyrene joke up-thread was admittedly under researched (completely off the cuff, actually) but what I was getting at was that I assumed that the EU does not allow polystyrene takeaway containers.

I'll save the jokes about paper straws for later.

I feel bad for assuming the nice family that run my local chippy were doing something so contrary to environmental concerns too. My original mention of polystyrene was just for the sake of a humorous description of doner meat and chips, rather being based on any sort of fact.

Since I'd been talking about them on here today, I had a burger and chips from the chippy tonight. I asked about their packaging. It's definitely not polystyrene. The chap didn't know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned recycled sugar cane, but he said anyone selling food in polystyrene boxes would be liable to being fined by the council.

Thanks Golden Girl for sharing The Guardian article. I had been noticing the homogeneity of pub menus on our post-pandemic trips. For example, last month we had the identical honey-baked Camembert at The White Cross in Richmond, The Magpie in Sunbury and a pub in the West Midlands. A couple years ago I saw the same Moroccan lamb flatbread at two different places (each with barely enough lamb to warrant the name). Our meal at The White Cross was memorably disappointing. Reading this article made it all make sense. So again, thank you. These are businesses that wouldn’t exist without a profit margin, but it’s hard to find the value as a customer outside of the ambiance in this model. It’s difficult as a visitor to be discerning about pubs as dinner venues.

As a visitor, I treasure when we go to traditional pubs like The Bird in Hand in Wordsley where the food options are a bag of scratchings or a packet of crisps.

And thank you to Emma for the Desi Pub article from BBC Good Food. My in-laws grew up in Smethwick and moved out to Wordsley. Looks like it would be fun to try some of the places mentioned in the Birmingham area.

I’m glad you found it useful Nancy. I haven’t been to these but wish I could, the food always sounds delicious.