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Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?

The BBC just publish an article in their "World's Table" section called "Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?" which is about the new book La Cucina Italiana Non Esiste. The author is Alberto Grandi, food historian and professor of economic history at the University of Parma.

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20250227-is-there-no-such-thing-as-italian-cuisine

One example given in the article about pizza:

Pizza is the most famous example of this. Born as a cheap street food
in Naples, in the 19th Century it was almost synonymous with poverty
and filth. Pizza is "a crust of leavened bread dough, oven-toasted,
with a sauce of a bit of everything on top", wrote Pinocchio author
Carlo Collodi in 1886. He added that pizza had "an air of complex
filth that perfectly matches that of its vendor".

Grandi has a podcast Denominazione di Origine Inventata (DOI) which is co-hosted by Daniele Soffiati. It is in it's fourth season and is quite interesting. Grandi doesn't take issue with the quality of the food, just the stories that are invented around it. One thing he often mentions his how many people immigrated from Italy between 1850 and 1914 (like my great grandparents), hunger being one of the main reasons.

Posted by
6739 posts

Dave, you always unearth something interesting! Real Parmigiana in Wisconsin?! Horrors! (We Minnesotans love to take jabs at Wisconsin)

This article an interesting quick read. I think Italian food took off in the U.S. because its rather inexpensive to make, and what's not to like?! My friends with Italian heritage all trace back to Sicily and Puglia, and certainly came due to the extreme poverty in their homeland. The cuisine of the U.S. is very much enriched by the Italian immigrants. And it is important to note that food in Italy varies dramatically by geographic location . Polenta in the Veneto, meat in Umbria, etc.

Posted by
1789 posts

It helps to remember that "Italy" has only been a nation since 1861. There is regional cooking within Italy, just as within the USA (which is an older country), but very little "Italian" cuisine.

Posted by
2792 posts

It helps to remember that "Italy" has only been a nation since 1861

Italy is actually three countries, as my Italian colleagues will tell me. People from Milan even look differently from those from Sicily. And Italy as a place with a long history and a tradition in trade is of course the place where you would expect a lot fusion cooking...

Pizza tonight at our place. And yes, it will have pineapple on it :-)

Posted by
123 posts

As someone mentioned, Italy has only been a country since the late 19th century. Culturally the country still a series of city-states. The competition and pride are still there without the warfare. All of the food (as well as culture, language, traditions, etc) are all regional. As someone of Italian descent, in the US I am "Italian" in Italy, I have a regional identity. And I don't mean Tuscan or Calabrian, it is more detailed than that. One is Florintina/o, or Milanese. This goes for the language, food, and so many other cultural aspects. While many people talk about the north, middle and south, it is much more divided than that. Sicily is different from Calabria. Venezia is different from Milano and both are different from Torino. Each even have their own languages but they are dying out, some places faster than others. My grandmother did not speak Italian, she spoke her regional language. When I received my Italian citizenship by descent, I hold an Italian passport, but my identity within Italy is tied with the region of my family.

The dishes we have in the US would be considered Italian-American food. Much of it doesn't exist in the same way in Italy. When I have lived in major cities in the US, I will find Florentine or Venetian food from speciality restaurants and their menus look very different from Italian-American restaurants. Unless the cheese in imported, it is different from what we make here. This is not to say Italian-American food is bad. I love our versions of pasta and pizza, as well as the Italian versions.

Posted by
9210 posts

Most of the Italian-Americans in my city, including my in-laws, are Sicilian, and the standard "red gravy" dishes are part of their culture. Pizza was just a crust with minimal toppings, sometimes just oil. Around here, Catholic churches with a Sicilian population have St Joseph Tables (St Joseph Day is this month) to celebrate the passing of a great famine in the past. Visitors welcome to come and sample some interesting foods.

If folks haven't seen it, "Italian" cuisine and its American interpretation is a central theme of the film "Big Night" with Stanley Tucci and Tony Shalhoub. One of my favorite films.

Posted by
645 posts

@Stan, "Big Night" is a great movie, one of my favorites too.

I have a cookbook, "A book of Favorite Recipes" compiled by Italian Catholic Federation, San Mateo District Council, 1974. It has a lot "Italian" recipes, but they are definitely for American family life. The intro states "The recipes in this book may not have been laboratory tested, but their merit has been established by the most critical group of all -- husbands and children!"

The book is not just for recipes, there is some "Basic Kitchen Information", which includes weights and measures, meat cooking times, 6 steps to a perfect pie, diet information and menus, a stain chart, and my favorite "Quantities for 100 people" .

Posted by
2935 posts

A lot of American 'ethnic' favorites started out as poor people food because many immigrant groups coming here were doing so to get away from poverty and seek opportunity. Gefilte fish is made of the leftover or low-quality bits of the fish; chorizo is from the less desirable bits of the animal; lutefisk is a way to preserve for tough times, on and on.

Some of the dishes developed after they got here -- my Latin friends never saw a burrito before they came to the USA -- because it is from California, and then got recirculated back south. Ditto tiramisu and lasagne as we ('mericans) know them.

In support of the quote in the OP, soft pretzels in Phila. are the real soft pretzels -- rectangular not heart-shaped, and lighter brown so that the distinction between the crust and the interior is less stark than in NYC pretzels, and of course hard pretzels are from Pennsylvania Dutch culture, and are not the same as actual German pretzels, which are not very good, at least when made in Germany. But what I meant to say is that the pile of soft pretzels accrues cigar ash and sweat and leaf litter as it is sold from makeshift stands and news kiosks around the city and is part of what makes them authentic. :-P

Posted by
3600 posts

Searching for a food with an over 500 years old quality tradition still lived today?

Enjoy a German beer brewed in accordance with the (German) Purity Law, originally Bavarian.

The Purity Law stipulates that only water, malt, hops and yeast may be used to produce beer. It stands for the preservation of a traditional craft technique and is also the oldest food law regulation in the world that is still valid today. In Germany, this has led to the development of a brewing art that has gained worldwide recognition over the centuries: Every day, over 1,500 German breweries use just four natural ingredients to create a unique variety of over 40 different types and around 7,000 individual beer brands (source).

Also tastes good together with pizza.

Prost!

Posted by
2935 posts

With regard to the quote in the OP, I wonder if there was some kind of cleanliness association with the beer purity law beyond the desire to control pricing and keep other grains available as foodstuffs. Did brewers and distributors and purveyors of beer have any stereotypes associated with them that might have inspired a need to keep them clean?

Posted by
3600 posts

Did brewers and distributors and purveyors of beer have any stereotypes associated with them that might have inspired a need to keep them clean?

From what I read and understood yes because breweries from other (later often German) states adapted it to create a standard which was able to be carried out to the market. "Bier" became a multi-national brand or trademark of ingredients and purity. Relevant for today is that in EU not every craft beer has the right to title itself as "Bier".