30 days in UK, need help planning

You've done a double post which will create confusion. Maybe eliminate the one without a response?

Now the real problem: you're asking about an entire nation with four major subdivisions without giving us a clue. How about some help -- you obviously picked Britain over Botswana or Korea for some reason.

Emma and Ed, first thank you for your initial comments and suggestions; I hope more to come. I DID do the delete; thank you. We are seasoned world travelers; accustomed to "driving around the countryside." Been to London several times (business/pleasure) so more interested in rural life...small to mid size cities..country villages..yes, Wales, Norwich (area) Bath (I know that I am geographically jumping around). Yes, would enjoy going to Scotland.
Best example, if I was not an American and I came to the U.S. and only went to NYC I would not have really seen, nor understand, Americans. So, I guess I am requesting to see the "heartland" of the UK.
We will spend a few days in London at the very end of our journey (our friends have not been to London).
Plan to stay in B&Bs or small hotels. Certainly prepared to park the car and take public transport when that makes sense.

Marly & Harold

I should have also added that we are open for suggestions regarding "best month" to travel. We are considering May or September to avoid the summer travelers

Harold

Harold, I will take a shot at a particular area and see if it hits the spot for you. I would encourage you to find an area in Dartmoor to visit. The quiet rural flavor, windswept moors, old stone circles and little villages make it a favorite of mine. I like the area around Chagford (right off the highway, plenty of unbelievably narrow country lanes worth exploring, and great hiking). Less hectic and less developed, than the Cotswolds for example. Cheers and happy travels!

Thanks to all of you for your comments and, Ed, I will try to "focus in" a bit. I understand your comments.
Emma your suggestions seem to be on track for us, although we do live on the beach in SW Florida, so we may take a quick look at the British beach and then move along. Steve I appreciate your ideas, very comfortable for us.

A few more specifics: I THINK that Somerset County would be interesting to us (based upon my readings).
I know this sounds bizarre, but I would like to see "St Bees on the Irish Sea and Robin Hood Bay on the North Sea. There is a hike / walk between those two locations. I would like to utilize this trip to "scout out" the terrain between those two locations.
Ed, I am very interested in your experiences in the Scottish Highlands. I envision many photo ops in that area.
I will break out my 6' X 6' map of the UK and begin to sketch out a trek and will provide feedback.
BTW, no interest in going to Ireland on this visit.

Three years ago we drove from Sweden to Sicily. Five years ago we drove 8,000 KM around South Africa. we enjoy driving and seeing the countryside; we both enjoy photography. Our friends simply enjoy everything.

Thanks again,

Harold

The sherpavan forum has a section on the Coast to Coast.
Whitehaven near St.Bees is an interesting town, way off the tourist trail.
It was attacked by the pre revolutionary US Navy.
If hiking is your thing a night in ennerdale is as fine as any mountain scene in england,the Coast path runs right through it.
In a bit of random triv,its where Bill Clinton proposed to Hillary to.
In fact getting a car route that "follows" the coast to coast wouldn't be a bad idea,crossing the peaks of the lakes,the vale of Eden,the long green valleys of the Dales and the rolling Moors.
Sept would mean the heather is out, but May means much longer days,and spring at its height.
I'm sure thre might be interesting stuff in Lancashire too,maybe

Seems like you four need to put together your own list of "must sees." You could give everyone, say, 20 picks, then compare the lists and go with anything that gets two or more votes. Or some other method you choose. Everyone should do some homework with guidebooks, not just RS but Lonely Planet, or DK series, or Michelin, or ???.

When you have a list with at least something for everyone, connect the dots on the map and you'll have your route, more or less. As intrepid drivers you'll have lots of flexibility and, unlike the continent, no tolls. And with 30 days you have time to see and do a lot. Your must-sees may lend themselves to hub-and-spoke routing, where you drive to a base city or town, stay several nights, and take day trips here and there. That saves time with overnight logistics and you'll probably sleep better in the same beds multiple nights. Or you may find your itinerary is a long string of 30 one-night stands around the Sceptered Isle.

You probably already know this, but keep in mind that four adults plus luggage means a very tight fit in an economy-type car. You might want to upsize for comfort and convenience. Also, I think an automatic shift helps make it easier to drive on the left side, giving you one less mechanical variable to distract you from the main task of staying left but not too far left. Ed and others scoff at this view, though, so you decide.

Good points made by others re May vs. September. Both better choices than summer. I'd go for May for the longer days.

And, with due respect to the hardy UK souls, if you've been to Florida beaches you won't want to spend much time at Britain's!

If you want to walk water-to-water:

St Bees to Robin Hood's is the longest one and has the most elevation change -- it's a ten-day project if you hustle right along.

You could extend the Hadrian's Wall Path on both ends and get across in five days at about the same clip.

Cornwall has a coast-to-coast trail along an old rail bed which is only ten miles so you could double-walk it in a day.

I would go to York and see the city itself (beautiful cathedral) and surrounding countyside. Salisbury (another beautiful cathedral) and surrounding area. Another favorite place is Canterbury. Are you interested in gardens. If you are, Hidcote Manor, Great Dixter and Sissinghurst Castle Garden. Of course there are many more and driving will be much more convenient than taking the train. Which is how we get around. Too scary for me trying to drive on the other side of the road. Have you driven there before?
If not, or if not in a long time, you might want to rethink about driving.

Britain's beaches have far more variety than those in Florida.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=best+british+beaches&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ifV2U9iWHMiK4gS49YDwBA&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQsAQ&biw=1558&bih=970

To all, thank you again for our comments, I am listening!
Dick, I agree with you regarding the automatic, for all of the same reasons, we just won't tell Ed and Emma.

Emma: I have a segment identified and would appreciate your feedback (by the way we LOVE cathedrals, so thank you): York - Bridlington - Scarborough - Robins Hood Bay - Whitby (for the fish & chips) - St. Bees head - Carlisle. How we get to York is still under "research."

Ed: We want to see and enjoy Scotland, you seem to be the expert, what do you think of: Carlisle - Glasgow - Inverness - Aberdeen - Edinburgh - Newcastle.....OR Inverness - Edinburgh bypassing Aberdeen?

Steve: Thank you for Dartmoor and Changford!

Wales (North & South) is my next research area.

Harold

Emma,
Using York as a home base is an excellent idea. A B & B or a small hotel on the outskirts of York will provide us with a great deal of flexibility. Do you have a recommendation for a home base(s) in Wales (North/South)?

My wife reminded me that when she was a teen she attended Trinity College in Cambridge, so we must route ourselves through Cambridge (somehow).

Generally speaking we are planning (with the car): 1 week in Wales; 2 weeks in England; 1 week in Scotland. Turn in the car: 3-4 days in London. We are all retired, so the # of days can easily be adjusted.

Harold

It helps that you've finally fessed up with a rough allocation of days for the major areas. I haven't yet figured out how you're going to wiggle around England, so you might have to reverse my outlines for Wales and Scotland. I'll treat each separately so that Richard, Emma, Fab, and Pam (if she ever shows up) can rip me to shreds.

Wales

When I take people on a tour of the Principality, I use the technique of stringing together the best castles in march order. (See them all, see none - - it doesn't matter, I'm a castle freak and the sequence works - - but I'm listing them in a big 'C' starting at the Severn crossings. Parenthetical numbers indicate ranking of the castles, asterisks are suggested overnight stops based on surrounds, timing, grub availability, and general interest for wandering at the end of the day. The cities of Cardiff and Swansea are omitted based solely on the fact that I don't care for them - - and I might be in the minority. Cardiff I sort of like, but only because of the National Museum and waterfront/harbor - - the castle isn't worth a hoot. The castles rankings are based on military knowledge of how a defensive fortification should work, building techniques, and difficulty of construction. No consideration is given to interiors or furnishings. In the remainder of the world, I only rate five castles above these seven. Worthwhile places exist between the castles, some will be mentioned. The rest of the crowd will add more.

Chepstow (2)*
Caerphilly (4)
Kidwelly (6)
Pembroke (5) *
Harlech (1)
Caernarvon (3) *
Conwy (7)

Between Pembroke Dock and Harlech is the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park. Within the park is Castell Henllys, the most accessible iron age hill fort you will approach (others require a lot of climbing). Nearby is Cardigan Bay with some of the best scenery on the entire Coastal Path.

North of Caernarfon is Anglesey. South Stack is awesome. Beaumaris is an okay castle, but similar examples of the style exist on the mainland.

Snowdonia and the mountain railways are reachable to the south from Caernarvon. I haven't ridden them, but have walled the beds in both directions. The scenery is spectacular, as advertised. Advice on riding is difficult - - every time I've been by any of the termini, the platforms appeared crowded - - the problem with reservations is that the mountains get badly clouded in (unpredictably) so you might have a ticket only for fog viewing.

After Conwy, you have two choices: bust out the top toward Chester or make a run down the middle.

With a week, I wouldn't leave yet. The drive through Snowdonia, Llanidloes, Builth Wells, and into the Brecon Beacons (essentially following the old drovers paths) to somewhere near Cardiff is only a half day of road time and shows an entirely different view of Wales than what you'd see hugging the coast. Now you're back close to Chepstow and the Wye Valley is right there - - that's worth another whole day - - the Welsh side is better than the English side for the most part - - Tintern Abbey is worth a stop, escpecially since you appear to be interested in Whitby.

It's a stinking hard decision on time allocation, since you're only talking about a week for Scotland. I've pulled off the initial big 'C' in three nights of hard pushing and gotten in four of the seven main castles and a couple of other spots.

If anybody is the crowd has an interest in dolmens, menhirs, and circles, they might want to peruse the Megalithic Portal and drool.

Scotland

I couldn't agree with your proposal less unless you have something in mind that you haven't disclosed. You initially postulated 'rural' and 'heartland' but when you moved to Scotland, you've listed nothing but cities. Even if that's just a general track, it misses the best. Scotland's a place that, the further you get into the outback, the better it gets. Any guidebook can list stuff in any city and every place has merit; but Glasgow is almost just another city with few attractions representative of the country and Inverness is a place to spend the night if it's getting dark an you don't want to push on. Aberdeen is Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire is magnificent (over a hundred stone circles some of which will knock your socks off in the moonlight), but it's almost out of the way in the time that you have allocated.

Edinburgh's a gotta do, but in the last half dozen trips to Scotland I've used the airport at least five times, but only gone into town once and that was because I'd wrangled a half day with a museum curator. Anybody's ideas are as good as mine, but I know where the dive bars are.

Not having studied the England ideas that closely, I'm going to assume the Lakes was in there somewhere and start from Keswick (mainly because of Castlerigg) but Carlisle is only about a half hour closer.

Bypass Glasgow and head straight for Stirling. The castle is okay, but I'm mainly saving Pam some typing time. Detour a bit for the Falkirk Wheel if you'd like to see something different. Eventually press on to Inveraray (through the Trossachs National Park - - good, short forest walks to stretch your legs) for the night. Skip the castle, enjoy the harbor. You've used up four hours of road time from Keswick, about three from Carlisle.

The next day head toward Inverness (where you'll probably wind up spending the night, but you can arrive late and not miss much). Make stops in Fort William because the little pedestrian area is interesting, and Fort Augustus for the staircase of canal locks. Stop at Urquhart because it's famous. Going up the hill out of Drumnadrochit, hang a right and stop at the Monster Museum on the left. It's a tourist trap, but worth the price of admission. This one's sort of in a hotel or something, but has a dragon in a pool outside (if you'd taken a left at the top of the hill, you'd find another one, which stinks). You won't have anything close to four hours of road time for the day.

The following day head into the Cairngorms through Grantown-on-Spey and make Ballater the lunch stop. Come out of the park down the Gleenshee and head for Pitlochry for the night. Make it two nights. You've had four hours or road time with a lot of unexpected stops. With all the walks around town (see the plaques all over the place), the menhir on the north side of town, a couple of distilleries, the salmon ladder down by the dam, and all the shops for the women, you'll need a local day. McKays is a good pub with music some nights; the Auld Smitty has mussels as good as anywhere, the Indian place sucks.

You've got three nights left over for Edinburgh which is about right. It's an hour and a half away.

Another reference is made to the Megalithic Portal for all of Scotland.

Unsolicited Recommendation: If you old farts (I'm probably older) with expandable time on your hands can scrounge up five or six extra days you could either work in the Outer Hebs or the Orks. Both are unforgettable. Lewis and Harris might be a stretch, but Ullapool, Stornoway, and Callanish might be only of specialized interest. Mainland Orkney is worth a good three or four days and with four you might be able to work in Hoy as well. In either case you'd see a chunk of Scotland that few American tourists even know exist. If you do either, book the ferries ahead of time. Take the late one to Stornoway and the early one to Ullapool. Take the early one both ways between Scrabster and Stromness.

Well, I have certainly stirred up the hornet's nest....SEVERAL recommendations from Emma and Ed. Obviously I need to read and reread then plot the points on my large map. To respond quickly would be disrespectful to both of you; please give me a few days.

Ed I am especially appreciative of your listings of the castles and their "pecking order," Americans love castles (we are no exceptions). I purposely gave you the geo locations in Scotland with the hope of stirring your emotions and soliciting the types of responses that you provided. Generally I dislike big/moderate size cities. Villages, back roads create "Kodak moments" an often new found friends and delicious meals.

Finally, as previously stated, the time frames are general and not specific. We will not leave an area, or avoid a village, to simply maintain a time schedule. The Country deserves more respect than that.

I will be back to you with more defined routings; we re making great progress!!
Kind Regards,
Harold

When you start planning a trip like this 30 days sounds like a world of time, and then you get into the nitty gritty details and you realize that 30 months might be more like it. :) Ed, as always has recommended some great places in Scotland. I'll give you some slightly different ideas, but you won't go wrong either way.

First of all, I do like spending at least another day in Edinburgh. It is the capital city and you easily spend a day exploring the Castle and the Royal Mile--I like Gladstone's Land and Holyrood itself is marvelous. The Castle is a must see. I go there first thing on any trip that takes me to Scotland. But I say it's also worth sometime to check out the National Museum and then sneak over to New Town and see the Georgian House. If you are into art check out the National Art Gallery near Princes Street. (Jenner's department store has a great jewelry department with lots of Scottish designs.)

I can't recommend Aberdeen. It may be wonderful, but I've not gotten there, primarily because it's pricey due to the oil business and all the business expense money. If you want to go there, make sure it's on the weekend and not during the week. Look for a deal in lodging. If I'm going to Aberdeenshire, I'd rather stay in Ballater. You can explore all the castles and stone circles to your heart's delight.

One of my favorite places in Scotland in Perthshire. I've stayed in Dunkeld, Aberfeldy and in Pitlochry. I like Dunkeld, because of the walks along the Tay, and up into the Hills. There is lovely old Cathedral. Dunkeld was the head of the church prior to St. Andrew's. And then there is the Taybank. A lovely pub on Tayside where musician gather. Pitlochry is good because it has the Festival Theatre. Check out what is playing there during your trip. If you're luck, like I was, Aly Bain will be doing a concert! You can also check out the Blair Athol or Eradour distilleries and then go for a walk Tayside. Check out the Explorer's Garden. It will help you understand how all those English Gardens came to be. Aberfeldy is where you can walk along the Birks of Aberfeldy, or go to Loch Tay and check out the Cranog Center. Or just drive out toward Glen Lyon, passing the oldest yew tree in Great Britain and enjoying one of the more beautiful glens in Scotland.

I do love the west as well. The only thing wrong with the west is that it can tend to get a wee bit more rain than the rest of Scotland. So, if you can be flexible and watch the weather map and go when the weather is good in the west, it's even better. Ullapool is one of my favorite places. The town is lovely, but walk up into the hills above the town and check out the views of Loch Broome and the Summer Isles. It's quite spectacular. And if you are there in August the heather will be in bloom.

Ed is quite right about the Outer Hebrides and Orkney. They are truly places apart. Orkney may hold my heart a bit more, but that's likely my grandfather's heart pulling me back to his home.

So, think about all these ideas and come back to use with more questions. And, BTW if you've not found these sites, Undiscovered Scotland and VisitScotland, you need to explore them.

Pam

Hi Harold, you certainly have some great recommendations from others here. I'd like to provide a list of some of my favorite spots in the UK (perhaps it will provide some inspriation). Please note: I am excluding London which would take me a year to write all the fabulous things to do there.

Bath (must visit old Roman baths here)
Cotswolds (Stow-on-the-Wold is my favorite-have tea and scones in the Cotswolds)
Blenheim
Castle Howard (Yorkshire)
York (Harrogate is a lovely town to stay in if you want a different home base in the North, although for Harrogate I think you'd need to rent a car)
Lyme Regis (lovely beach down in Dorset-not touristy and just so wonderful)
Brighton (the Pavillion is spectacular)
Edinburgh (great city, lots to do)

Enjoy!!!

We went to England last September for three weeks. It was our first trip and we decided to skip London as it wasn't worth the hassle of having a car there. One of the things we did to focus our trip was purchase a National Trust membership which has a membership for Americans (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/membership/joining-from-the-usa/). We also purchased a Historic Houses membership (http://www.hha.org.uk/) because the places we wanted to see the most belonged to this organization. Thus, admission to tons of historic sights was free - just the right price for us. Because we were staying in the East Midlands and the Kent area in timeshares, we knew we would be focusing on those areas. I researched the open hours and days for the NT and HH sights and built our itinerary that way. We spent the third week in the Cotswolds/Bath/Wiltshire areas - again, focusing on NT and HH sights. If you haven't done so, explore the trip reports section of the travel forum. You might get ideas there. I posted our first week here: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/england-s-east-midlands-anglia-are-a-treasure-trove-of-sights. There's so much to see and do in the countryside of England. We can't wait to go back.

Hi Harold--My husband Mac & I (Donna) are seniors also traveling from the US to the UK--in September to visit England, Scotland & Wales. We are of Scots/Welsh ancestry & our trips are influenced by our living UK family & our genealogy research as well as Mac's passion for golf. We have visited Scotland before, for a clan gathering & to meet family, & can't wait to get back!
Our previous trip centered mostly in Argyll with side trips to Dundee & St. Andrew's (Mac played the old course thanks to his cousin.) We had (very) brief visits to Edinburgh, Stirling, Luss, Loch Lomond, & the Highlands. The highlight of the trip was our extended stay in the Trossachs-unbelievably peaceful & lovely.

This time our month long itinerary by car starts with 4 days in Edinburgh with time allotted for jet lag recovery/golf , hop-on hop-off city sightseeing by bus & meeting up with family by car in the little canal side village of Ratho.
Next we are on to the Highlands staying at a b&b in Inverness & spending time at Culloden, Fort William & Glencoe. Our next stop is a few days' visit to Lochgilphead, Argyll, a quiet little village with lovely, friendly people, a great register office, & breathtaking views loch side.
We then leave for England driving to Keswick for an unfortunately brief overnight visit & then immediately on to Bath for 4 days during the Jane Austen festival. Our plan is to spend a few days in Bath proper, playing tourist at the Roman Baths, Royal Crescent, Jane Austen Center, etc. Actually I'm the Austenite, so I'll probably lose Mac shortly after the Royal Crecent, There will be a definite day trip to Stonehenge & the Cotswolds though before we head on to Wales.

We will be staying several days there, at at a guest house in Ebbw Vale. Beyond a planned day trip to the annual Welsh food festival in Abergavenny, our intent is to visit roots while driving through the Wye Valley & other scenic venues. We want to visit at least one castle but our plan here is really open--just, literally, slow down & enjoy the ride.

After Wales it's back to England (can't help it my mom's side is Welsh)--& the dreamy spires of Oxford, where we'll focus on Christchurch College & even attend the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. Final leg is London where we're splurging on a West End Play & hoping to see the Changing of the Guard & the Churchill War Rooms.

Obviously, our trip is really personal--we don't have many 'must sees.' Most places, we like the hop-on hop-off buses, & we have purchased oyster cards & a Bath visitor's pass & other discounted trips--but we found last time that castle ruins beat out the Mel Gibson/Wallace monument hands down--& cream teas in wool towns are just as enjoyable as fancy restaurant offerings but then we're pretty laid back. That being said, it took me a good 6 months to put it all together-- so good luck with your planning. And Godspeed.

If in Whitby stroll the beach after a storm and see if you can find some genuine Whitby Jet, and perhaps find some worked Jet in the antique stores there....

If you do find some it will be a real find...