New COVID booster: Are 4 shots still enough for RS tour?

I'm about 4 weeks out from my tour, and like you have had 2 boosters. I don't expect the latest booster will be required, it's just too unlikely everyone will be able to get it in time.
That said, if it somehow becomes available near me, I'll go ahead and get it.

FWIW, according to media reports the new updated shots have already been shipped, and are in possession in a lot of pharmacies and medical centers waiting for final approval. So in theory if the final sign-off happens today (Friday), one could get the shots this Tuesday.

Looks like CVS already has them
https://www.cvshealth.com/news-and-insights/press-releases/cvs-health-statement-on-availability-of-bivalent-covid-19-boosters

I'm making an appointment!

Jill, please report back if you hear from the Rick S office.

The Rick Steves Coronavirus FAQ says:

"Yes, to participate in a Rick Steves tour we require all tour members to be fully vaccinated (received all recommended doses in their primary series) and up to date with booster doses (when eligible). Get more details about staying up to date on COVID vaccines from the CDC." [My emphasis added.]

The referenced CDC page (see section for Adults age 18 and older and open the section for each manufacturer) defines that, for Moderna as an example, Adults age 50 and older (non-immunocompromised) are "Up to Date: Immediately after 4th dose." [My emphasis added.}

ETA (9:13pm PT)
The CDC web page has been modified to include reference to the "updated booster", which they refer to as a 3rd dose, to follow "At least 2 months after 2nd dose or last booster, and can be Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna."

And it now says you (Adults age 50 and older) are "Up to Date: Immediately after you have received the most recent booster recommended for you." [My emphasis added.]

Timely post, Jill. I was just going to check availability where I live. Got an 8 PM appointment tonight. We leave for Portugal next Wednesday. Whew! Hopefully we avoid Covid during our month away!

Has the US approved a fifth dose? Not a new vaccine but actually getting it. If so, could you post a reference.

The current CDC card only has space for four shots. What are they going to do about the boosters after four?

Since these do not appear to be distributed to the hinterlands yet, I can’t imagine the office would require this booster for upcoming tours.

None available in Idaho, Montana or Eastern Washington. I could go to Seattle or Ogden UT.

IF it’s available locally before I leave for Italy, I will get it.

This is from the CDC pages. “Today, CDC Director Rochelle P. Walensky, M.D., M.P.H., endorsed the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices’ (ACIP) recommendations for use of updated COVID-19 boosters from Pfizer-BioNTech for people ages 12 years and older and from Moderna for people ages 18 years and older.”
My understanding that this is the new recommendation and old boosters no longer in use. The CDC page says you should get if your last booster over 2 months ago.

The current CDC card only has space for four shots. What are they going to do about the boosters after four?

They will give you a new card.
It’s all over the news that the approval has been given. Not going to take the time to put a link.

CVS near me has appointments available for the new vaccine. I booked one and then was called that it was cx because their shipment had not come in yet. Was supposed to be here today. Poor coordination!

Each state then has to approve the new "booster," though often that is a formality once the FDA and CDC sign off. E.g. Washington, Oregon, Nevada, and California approve new Covid vaccines following a recommendation from the Western States Scientific Safety Review Workgroup (which today finally approved the new bivalent Covid vaccines).

I asked the question regarding approval for the fifth shot because I am in Europe and have been for awhile. Not all U.S. news is reported here.

I heard the U.S. government approved the new vaccine but didnt know if they allowed a fifth shot.

I asked the RS office if my J&J vaccination and my Pfizer booster (just got that two weeks ago) would meet their requirement for being fully vaccinated and I was told it did. I plan on getting a flu shot two weeks before I leave for France. I wish I would have waited for the new booster, but I was afraid it would not be available in time. C’est la vie.

I would expect the CDC will issue some guidance soon on direction for
those with two boosters already and the new mix of the vaccine

They already have. From the NY Times article:

Who is eligible?
The F.D.A. authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech booster for anyone 12 or older who received an initial vaccination or booster shot at least two months ago. Adults 18 or older can get the Moderna vaccine if it has been at least two months since their last vaccination. The C.D.C. recommended the same eligibility guidelines as the F.D.A.

They have simplified the requirements. Any adult who is two months past their last booster can get the new updated booster.

I am planning on calling as well. I am one month out from my second booster. I have one Astra Zenica and three Pfizer. I was told a few weeks ago that this would be ok as all by one are Pfizer. The new vaccine is not available yet in Ontario (it just got approved but no bookings yet) and when it is you need to be at least 2 months out from your last shot. At least that is what I understand. Plus at this point only Monderna is approved for the new vaccine. I am heading to Italy in 4 days. My Rick Steves tour does not start till October so a little worried about if I will be ok. I have no way to get the update vaccine before I leave for Europe. If I had more time I would drive to Buffalo and get the shot at a CVS but my time lines are too tight.

I would not want to tour with folks who did not have their up-to-date
vaccines.

I don't want to pick on Laurie Beth so I'll put this out to all Americans that are concerned about people who don't meet CDC requirements. I'm a Canadian and have 2 boosters, my jabs in order are Astra, Pfizer, Moderna, Moderna. CDC does not formally recognize vaccine mixing but most of the rest of the world does, and as of right now, a 3rd booster is not available to me. Would you be concerned if I was on the tour? I'm not taking a tour next year because the RS office won't give me a straight answer. I asked if I was OK to book a tour even though I can't meet CDC requirements, and I was sent a link to the CDC with no other explanation.

Allan, I wouldn’t hesitate to tour with you. We’re getting our 4th shot this week, but only because we’re taking a RS tour this fall, and I don’t want to get there and be sent home for only having one booster. I don’t really want another booster - I’m not convinced it’s necessary. But I’m getting it.

Hubby and I had our second booster in May of Pfizer and our bivalient booster today. Fingers crossed that We get a good boost of antibodies.
We leave for RS Portugal and Spain tours this Wednesday.

Would you be concerned if I was on the tour? I'm not taking a tour next year because the RS office won't give me a straight answer. I asked if I was OK to book a tour even though I can't meet CDC requirements,

Allan, the CDC does recognize mixed doses

CDC does not recommend mixing different COVID-19 vaccines for the primary series but is aware that this is increasingly common in many countries outside of the United States. Therefore, for the interpretation of vaccination records, people who receive a mixed primary series have completed the series.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

Paul, given that the Rick Steves tours for 2022 seem pretty booked up, what incentive would they have to change the vaccine requirements?

My only point is that these measures were implemented as part of the response to the pandemic, and were "easy" to implement because Cruises and other tour groups had also decided to impose similar requirements, and countries in Europe also imposed basically the same requirements (Vaccine mandatory, testing, masking, etc.)

Most European countries (all but two) have dropped any vaccine and even testing requirements, masking requirements have dropped to some public transport, other travel companies are pulling back on requirements, it is only logical that at some point the RS office will think, "When do we go back to normal?"

Judging from the number of people saying they are calling the office on this thread, the varied complaints on other threads about testing/making people test/mask wearing/guides either policing or not policing people and a long list of concerns, I imagine this is all a big time and effort burden on the part of the staff and guides. To be rid of it would be a blessing...and if you wind up being the only tour company doing these measures, that can get to be a problem.

I doubt it will happen for tours this year, but 2023?, 2024?

Personally, I'm perfectly happy with them requiring vaccines as others have said above. Gives me a level of comfort knowing there are not unvaccinated people on the bus with me for 2 weeks. As for cruises, given their past histories with norovirus and covid, you could not pay me enough to take a cruise.

Allan, I would have no problem traveling with you. You are getting vaccinated. Wow, what a combo though. Has it kept you Covid free?

Paul, I think the Rick Steves folks will obviously have to adjust their policies if their tour stop selling out while other tour operators are finding booming business, right? That's called adjusting to the economic conditions.

There are other indirect advantages to requiring updated Covid vaccines for tour members, though. One is that such a requirement might discourage (for lack of a better phrase) "anti-science" people from joining the tours - people who might balk at wearing masks in certain circumstances. I'd guess someone who refuses to get vaccinated is also more likely to refuse to obey safety guidelines e.g. masks in some circumstances or showing a negative Covid test.

Also, because vaccinated people are less likely to get so gravely ill if they get Covid, even before a tour. They should be (somewhat) less likely to cancel last minute or require serious medical attention. But as I said above, they might in general encourage more "health-conscious" people to join the tours.

One Data point. Our guide checked everyone’s vaccine cards and Covid results before our first group meeting today. I know he was looking at number of immunizations received and date of the last dose. It didn’t look like he was closely scrutinizing the types of vaccines received.

He gave a clear description of the type of masks that must be worn and when they must be worn. Beyond that there was a thoughtful presentation about each of us doing what we can to insure not only our health, but the health of the group.

It’s my opinion that RS wouldn’t have any difficulty selling tours with a vaccine requirement. Does he really want to have to reimburse numerous tour members who get Covid? Probably not. Hopefully the new Bivalent vaccine does the job! We got ours yesterday and had difficulty sleeping last night due to mild headache and general malaise which continues today.

Diane, what does vaccination have to do with RS tour reimbursement? As far as we know, even the new bivalent vaccines don't prevent breakthrough infections (or not much), just hospitalization etc. It seems the RS tours would be just as likely to need to reimburse due to Covid infection whether the members are vaccinated or not. But, one can guess the good people working at RS don't want the tour group folks to get really sick, so it's a noble sentiment too, not just economic.

With all the concern about not wanting to be with an unvaccinated person, I am more concerned with not wanting to be around persons who choose to go out when sick whether vaccinated or not and to have them hacking all over everyone and everything. I know when you’ve been waiting for a trip the tendency is to push on regardless. It’s a conundrum.

Up to date is not the same as fully vaccinated. The CDC definition of fully vaccinated is completion of initial series. Boosters are advised but not required to meet the definition of fully vaccinated. The following is an email I sent to the company:

I have read the Covid fax FAQ which is not the same as the the health document I signed for a tour next Spring. The doc says:

I agree that upon arrival and prior to my joining my tour, if requested, I will be able to present an authentic COVID-19 vaccination certificate (such as a CDC issued vaccine card or equivalent) showing I am fully vaccinated* per the CDC guidance (or the CDC’s equivalent in my country of origin) as published 30 days prior to my tour’s departure.

The CDC definition of fully vaccinated is merely completion of the initial series. They encourage boosters but do not require them to meet the definition of fully vaccinated.

The CDC definition may change but currently the stated RS policy of requiring booster is different than the requirement listed on the health care waiver.

I’d like to see a consistent policy so that I can plan accordingly. Thank you.

Bdmrd You need to look at the FAQs from Rick Steves Tours. You are not quoting what they have written there correctly. If you plan to go on a tour, you will need to follow their actual policy, not what you wish was their policy.

Carol
I am looking for a clarification about the discrepancy between the requirements stated in the health liability release which reads like a contract ( not a lawyer, just a retired physician) and the FAQ guidance. My point is that RS should rewrite the health release for the tours if they are going to require boosters. Otherwise someone who has done all the paperwork but neglects to read the FAQ could show up in Greece and theoretically be denied access to the tour .

I am looking for a clarification about the discrepancy between the requirements stated in the health liability release which reads like a contract ( not a lawyer, just a retired physician) and the FAQ guidance.

Here is the footnote from their health & safety pledge: *"Fully vaccinated" as defined by the CDC guidance 30 days prior to the tour's departure. I would have had to fire the attorney that wrote pledge, leaves too much to the imagination.

The best thing to do is call the office and get them to clarify this point, hopefully.

Let us know what you find out.

I think the CDC is being evasive. My wife who is front line physician said the hospitals knew that if more shots had been required, there would have been a staffing crisis. “Up to date” is not the same as fully vaccinated:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/is-it-time-to-update-the-definition-of-fully-vaccinated.html

I agree that RS should clarify the vaccine requirements for the tours. As I said above, clearly their tours are pretty full so they have no incentive to reduce vaccine requirements now. I would concede that some may not make sense or be fair. E.g. now the CDC has recommended the bivalent boosters for everyone who has not had a booster in more than two months...but some medical experts would not recommend a booster again that soon. If my doctor thinks I should wait four months after my last booster but RS technically requires one "as soon as I am eligible for my booster," should I ignore my doctor's advice and get the booster earlier than recommended just so I can go on the RS tour?

Requiring a negative Covid test before starting a tour does seem to make sense though, vaccinated or not, because we know that even fully vaccinated and boosted people can contract the virus and spread it to other tour group members.

Here is the footnote from their health & safety pledge: *"Fully
vaccinated" as defined by the CDC guidance 30 days prior to the tour's
departure.

30 days prior to the tour's departure is absolutely ridiculous. Who, 30 days prior hasn't already got their full plans in place? Too much risk for my money.

If you are going, or thinking of going on a Rick Steves tour and think further clarification of. their policies is necessary, you should contact the tour office.

I had mentioned in a comment further up this thread that I had and the only response I got was a link to the CDC site which was not helpful as my country does not follow the CDC guidelines. The RS office would not comment if Health Canada's guidelines would be acceptable. It's the reason we walked away from a plan to book a tour for next Spring.

I've emailed and called the office to see if the newest booster will be required for my tour in late October. I am one month out from my 4th vaccine. Leaving for Europe tomorrow. Hopefully I hear from the office today. I do realize that it was a long weekend. The CDC is not clear in my view. I understand that going forward that the new vaccine is now required but what if you have the old one. I am already looking at alternatives incase I get a negative response. I am all for vaccines and have gotten each as soon as I was able to Hopefully it all works out. Like so many I am looking forward to travelling agin.

No response to my email from the RS office as of today, but I have made my appointment and will be getting a fifth dose this weekend to be safe. My Dr also gave me the green light.

I just sent another email to the office (different addy), and included a link to this thread. Hoping they can provide some guidance for everyone! 😊

My understanding from the cdc site is that I am not eligible for the newest booster, as I am over 50 but not immuno-compromised. Rick Steve’s requirement is up taste including all ELIGIBLE boosters.

Am i reading it wrong?

Two doctors advised my husband to wait 6 months after having Covid before getting another booster. My plan is to get another booster a year after having the first one(which is also six months after I had a very mild case of Covid), but I also have no plans to go on a Rick Steves tour.

I just sent another email to the office (different addy), and included a link to this thread. Hoping they can provide some guidance for everyone!

I don’t think you will get a direct answer. I am not too sure that one exists.😳

"I don’t think you will get a direct answer. I am not too sure that one exists."

I think RSE CAN give a direct answer to the question Jill has posed which is "Are 4 shots still enough for RS tour".

Folks, if I may, while I appreciate the challenge because it's a bit different for everyone depending on your age, etc, it doesn't need to be quite so complicated. Instead of thinking of it as "is X enough," think of it as "am I up to date?" Here's your guidance as it relates to our tours: https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/coronavirus-faq

If you're having trouble figuring out if you're vaccinated enough, first ask yourself... are you vaccinated? Are you keeping up with vaccines and boosters as recommended by the CDC as they become available to you? Aka, are you up to date? If you just said yes, then you know you're fine. If the latest vaccine/booster isn't yet available in your area of the US -- or if you can't get in an appointment before you go abroad because it's so new and appointments are booked out -- we're not going to deny you access to your tour if you're otherwise up to date with your vaccines. (I stipulate that this statement of mine may change in the face of some future requirement. Again, keep up with our requirements at the link above. Please note that additional information is provided to our Tour Members as it applies to their tour.)

Where it gets more complicated is if you're from another country and your vaccine access is different, or if your doctor has told you not to get the latest booster (or is having you delay) due to some other medical reason. Those situations are worth asking/emailing us about. [email protected]

"Are 4 shots enough" We can't answer that in a forum because it depends. There are vast swaths of the US population that have had three shots and the new booster will be their 4th. The second booster was recommended for people over a certain age, and not for those under a certain age. The real question is, are you up to date. CWSocial's post in this thread pointed out the relevant information.

In this case, however, the locals did not pay several thousand dollars for a flight and their tour, an investment of money that I am happy to help protect, for myself and my tour mates, in any way I can.

I also appreciate that RSE, in turn, has a generous refund policy for a tour member who gets sick. And their family member. And all this recognizes the requirement that some countries have to isolate if you do become sick, which mandates that you leave the tour.

I like the balance.

Hey folks,

I've removed a few more replies. This thread is not about changing RSE's requirements. We absolutely cannot change the requirements mid-season after 27,000 people purchased their tour based on the previously set (well, current) requirements. If we changed it mid stream, that's how you get thousands of cancellations in days. Thank you for respecting the requirements that we've set up in order to ensure that we can have safe and fun travels for the 2022 season.

I feel very fortunate to have the 3rd booster onboard. We are in the airport waiting on our 9:30 PM departure to Lisbon. I’m seeing more masks wearing than I thought I would. Not enough but a good number on old and young.

If the latest vaccine/booster isn't yet available in your area of the US -- or if you can't get in an appointment before you go abroad because it's so new and appointments are booked out -- we're not going to deny you access to your tour if you're otherwise up to date with your vaccines.

Thanks, Webmaster. I think this is what a lot of us wanted to hear.😊

The company did respond to my inquiry. The 2023 Health pledge now stipulates that one is “fully vaccinated “ per CDC definition, not “up to date” / boosted. That currently means the initial two doses of Pfizer/Moderna or one of J&J. Not sure about Novavax. The CDC may change that definition but I kind of doubt it for many reasons.

https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/health-and-safety-pledge

Thank you, bdmrad, for your follow up and your perspective.

This is a reminder to keep this focused on the requirements for RS tours per the OP's subject. Don't stray into a non-travel or non-tour focus, please.

I ended up getting my third booster at CVS. We are headed to Italy in a few weeks. An extra layer of protection hopefully. If you plan on getting it allow a few days for recovery in case you experience side effects from the vaccine.. I felt terrible for 2 days after getting this booster.

My experience was like JessicaF's. I just returned from a RS tour 2 weeks ago. My booster was last December and that's all that shows on my covid card, along with my original 2 shots of Pfizer in March and April of 2021. The tour guide looked at my covid card and said "you're good to go!" I had paperwork from my doctor stating I wasn't required to get a 2nd booster but didn't need to show it. Our my way tour through the alps went fantastic and no one on the tour got sick :)

I also emailed RS and exchanged a few emails to get the full story. It was not easy trying to find the information on the RS website, but here is the web page: https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/health-and-safety-pledge

RS states that you must be "Fully vaccinated" as defined by the CDC guidance 30 days prior to the tour's departure.

With regards to mRNA shots, the CDC website currently states that "fully vaccinated" means two jabs. Boosters are no longer required by the CDC to be considered "fully vaccinated". I verified this with RS personnel. So, no booster shots are required to go on a RS tour. Of course, this could change.

Here is the link to the CDC webpage (last updated August 2022): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/reporting-vaccinations.html