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Digital Covid Certificates in perspective

Today, July 1, most countries in the EU are experimenting with the use of a QR code to accesss events, transportation, etc. in the EU.

These QR codes are not available to residents outside the EU. This has many people of this board worried. (Except, it seems Californians who get a QR code from their state. It won't work in the EU but they don't want to know that.)

Let's put this in perspective because many are only looking at this through their own eyes rather than the big picture.

The EU countries came together to agree on a format where the QR codes could be read in each others countries. (Most travel in the EU is from residents of other EU countries.) That would be like every U.S. state coming together to agree on a similar system that conforms to Europe. If the U.S. federal government would do this it would be easier but that's not going to happen. So now every state would have to spend a lot of money to help you spend money outside the state and the country. Why would they do that? They want you to stay home and spend money in your state? Could you imagine the next time a governor who okayed this ran for relection? His/her opponent would be screaming how that incumbent spent your tax dollars--speaking to those who don't travel-- so the priviliged could have fun in Europe. (Only 12 million Americans visitied the EU in 2016. That's 4% of the population.)

Now let's look at this from a bigger picture. In 2018, there were 168 million arrivals into the EU from non-EU countries. I couldn't find how much was spent but it has to be in the tens of billions of Euros. However, if each one spent 1,000 Eruos that would be 168 billion Euros.

Do you really think the EU is going to say to those 168 million that if your country doesn't conform to our system and generate QR codes that you can come here but you can't do anything? You can't eat in restaurants, go to museums, bars sporting events, etc. How many people would still go?

Or, is it possible, that the EU will come up with some type of Tourist Covid Certificate, similar to what they are doing with ETIAS, where tourists would register and then have a QR code generated? It would have to be a choice of digital, an app and on paper for those who don't have a smartphone. It's not foolproof, nothing is, but it would be easy to do and would work.

Most of the numbers I quoted came from the official EU website.

Posted by
10178 posts

“Today, July 1, most countries in the EU are experimenting with the use of a QR code to accesss events, transportation, etc. in the EU.
These QR codes are not available to residents outside the EU. This has many people of this board worried. (Except, it seems Californians who get a QR code from their state. It won't work in the EU but they don't want to know that.)”

I’m not sure why you would think Californians wouldn’t understand their QR code won’t work in the EU. Maybe some day it will, but maybe not. Travel anywhere is in flux and I would hope that people who choose to travel in these uncertain times are prepared for things to change at the drop of a hat.

Posted by
32519 posts

similar to what they are doing with ETIAS,

moving at the speed of a slug going uphill on a tar road in July you mean?

Posted by
304 posts

@Frank: You raise some good points. Being recently (finally) fully retired software engineer, I have dug down to find the specifications for both the California certificate and the EU "Green" certificate. They are totally different and will not "interoperate." That said, there would be nothing to stop the EU or countries in the EU to add the ability to read/verify the CA certificate, or build an app to read/verify the CA certificate and generate to EU certificate. (The specs for both are clear, there is even some example code, and it wouldn't take a software engineer long to knock together something to automate the process. But then there would be testing, approval, and deployment, which would take the rest of the year.) And that would only help the Californians.

Vaccination records are kept at the state level in the US. Covid vaccines are supposed to be reported to the states, but I have read elsewhere that not all states record adult vaccinations; some only record childhood immunizations(!). Then there is issue with states that have passed laws forbidding the creation or use of "vaccine passports."

Then there's the issue that state records may be incomplete or have errors. Some people on other threads have reported having issues that they had to correct when getting the CA certificate. My daughter is a public health nurse up in Washington and has told us some tales. She's done mass vaccination clinics where they did thousands of injections in one day. And at the end of the day the numbers didn't quite add up. It is inevitable errors get made, stuff gets mis-entered, just just not entered at all. They're working fast. They've run out of the official CDC cards and had to print their own (they have the official template and are officially authorized, but may not have the correct paper stock, etc.)

The Biden administration has said repeatedly the federal government is not going to create "vaccine passports." The whole issue is politically fraught. The best I can see happening is that some federal agency publishes a standard for the state agencies to follow.. https://thepointsguy.com/news/pressure-mounts-on-white-house-to-make-vaccine-passports/

I don't see how the EU or member states can create a tourist pass, at least from just a US CDC card. They are currently just reading the paper CDC cards on entry (or trusting that the airlines checked then on departure). There isn't time when going through, say, passport control, to read and record what's on the CDC card. Think of the poor guy trying to decipher a hastily hand-scribbled notation on a dog-eared paper card and enter it into a computer, generate the QR code, and send it to the traveller. Ditto trying to process those cards ahead of time by some government agency.

I have read on Reddit r/traveler posters reporting they were able to get a pass in Germany at a local corner pharmacy using their CDC card; but others on the same thread said they had no luck.

Posted by
2207 posts

I posted earlier today about the procedures I used to secure my EU digital certificate. Interestingly enough, the Dutch system creates TWO QR-codes; one for use in the Netherlands and the other to be used when traveling in other EU countries.

The EU came together to create a universally accepted system. It was quite a challenge and as late as March 2021, we were unsure if the Dutch government would meet the deadlines (or truly support the certificate). Think about 20+ countries, speaking different languages, with diverse cultural backgrounds and interests, coming to a consensus on a COVID tracking system. And it's not just a unification of the countries, but the local governments too.

Here in the Netherlands, there are 12 provinces; Germany, 16; France, 22; Spain, 50; and Italy more than 80! That's just the "states" in 5 of the EU countries. Suffice to say, there are probably more than 250 "states" in the EU that had to be convinced that this was the best direction.

Certainly, the EU countries had a vested interest in creating a system that, in essence, restores the Schengen open border principles and reopens a safer system of travel. COVID created barriers to travel worldwide - even in parts of the US where local municipalities implemented restrictions (Perhaps similar to EU countries rescinding Schengen open borders after a terrorist attack).

Like other Dutch residents, I also received a paper certificate certifying that I received my vaccinations. A difference here was that these vaccinations were tracked and entered into a national database. From that "central information system," the EU QR-code was created. So this is now our "vaccine passport." Whereas the US chose not to move forward on this type of system, the EU did. And this was an election year in the NL and COVID - and the handling of COVID policies - was the #1 issue in the election. So yes, politicians had to choose a side.

It will be interesting to see how the EU handles future US travelers if the COVID numbers spike. Fortunately, most Americans traveling to Europe ARE fully vaccinated, yet there is still some risk. Here 90% of the Dutch say they are willing to get vaccinated.

Since there is no common, centralized US vaccine-tracking system, it will probably evolve that each EU country develops its own method of "verifying" American - and other countries' - vaccination paperwork. That's no different than how each country imposed different COVID entry restrictions during the many lockdowns.

Wouldn't it be great if travelers could all be on the same system? I have no doubt that the US government can develop a system compatible with the EU App, but will they? Now that the EU has a system in place, will other countries/unions form similar digital systems? Will those systems be built to "connect:" with the EU product. Strange times ahead.

Posted by
14811 posts

And all of this is one reason why I decided to wait until October to return to Europe. I had a feeling there would be a lot of confusion once the EU opened and it would take awhile to get everything coordinated. (Plus if I traveled this summer I'd have to cut back on my fall trip. Schengen rules still apply.)

My current schedule doesn't have me returning until early January so I'm hoping the testing requirements to return to the U.S. are abolished by then.

Only time will tell.

Posted by
304 posts

And this from Deutsche Welle: https://www.dw.com/en/security-flaws-uncovered-in-eu-vaccination-passport/a-58129016

Apparently in Germany there also is no central record of vaccination (somebody correct me if I am wrong), so to get the EU Certificate you go to the pharmacy or doctor where you got the jabs, and present your paper record. Similar to the US CDC card?

The article above details all kinds of security holes for both generating the certificate and also verifying it (not even checking the digital signature??? !!!).

I'm not certain how much this applies to other counties. If there is a central government record of the vaccinations, then at least the issues with generating then certificates would be mitigated. Also it is not clear if there are multiple per-country verification apps or there is one standard app for the EU.

Posted by
9462 posts

Here in the Netherlands, there are 12 provinces; Germany, 16; France, 22; Spain, 50; and Italy more than 80! That's just the "states" in 5 of the EU countries. Suffice to say, there are probably more than 250 "states" in the EU that had to be convinced that this was the best direction.

This doesn’t really apply in the case of France. The French system is incredibly centralized; there is no need to “convince” the “states” (départements or régions) of anything: those départements or régions simply don’t have much — if any — power relative to the central government. Paris tells them what to do, and they do it.