COVID and Group Tours

I am so sorry this happened to you. Covid is NOT over. Are folks still required to mask on the bus? I am planning to travel to Italy next week---I just had Covid and have been fully vaccinated. I plan to mask in the airports and on the plane--but I bet most folks don't. This is worrisome. Please keep us updated.

Being a 10 tour alumni and having gone through a serious COVID Tour outbreak last year I believe there should be a STRONG message/request at the start of ALL RS Tours…IF you arrived for this Tour not feeling well please test immediately and continue to test until you are completely well…and at any time while on Tour you feel ill please immediately test and inform your guide. This was NOT done on our current Tour!
People arrived for our Tour sick…and were allowed on the Tour and to continue the Tour despite being sick!
The pre tour information from RS is very direct and clear…but those described policies were NOT followed and I now know of 4 people who have had their travel/Tour dreams voided…off Tour and on their own! We’ll see if and how many more become sick…potentially test…and do what responsible people do/should do!
Traveling still has risks…traveling in group…on buses adds to the risks!
IF you chose to travel on a Tour I’d strongly recommend you be observant. If there is someone showing signs of being ill you must inform the guide immediately…hopefully the guide will step up and have that person/people test immediately!
It’s only right thing to do seeing what’s going on Tour.
Travel safe!

Remember that it took only one person getting infected to cause this pandemic. So, one infected person on a bus could spread it to all the riders.
Unfortunately, COVID is still out there. I plan to be masked on the plane and the tour bus and any other crowded indoor space. Remember that sometimes people have it with very mild symptoms, but they are still spreaders.
I think some guides are probably more diligent than others, but they do need help to know if someone has the sniffles and has not volunteered to test.
I do wish the letter/guide from RS would ask that people bring test kits instead of just suggesting it. And, of course, that all people on the tour would test themselves if they felt even a little 'off'.
I do look forward to my tour that starts in two weeks. But I'm aware that the risk of COVID is still there and will take precautions and can only hope that others on the tour will be doing the same.

Margie, I am so sorry. I hope you will be feeling better soon. I just finished a tour and we all made it through the 14 days without any Covid incidents. Our guide was proactive and very discretely asked a few to test and it came back negative.

The time to start thinking about avoiding Covid is not on the way or the first day of the tour. (Not saying this was you, probably the person who infected you). The week before tour I severely limit my extra contacts and mask up in high risk scenarios. I masked all the way over and then rarely masked after that.

The Covid risk is always there, and I am sorry that it impacted you. I agree that there is no shame in discussing any concerns with your guide.

My husband got COVID on day two of a recent RS Steves tour. The symptoms were so mild, plus we were vaxxed and masking, so we honestly would not have thought to test. But no one wants a minor cold or sniffles either, so we informed our guide right away, and that was the end of our tour (and rightly so). I really hope no one else got sick after we left (I have not heard that anyone did). We had done very few indoor group activities, and only one short bus trip (whew).

We were on a non-RS tour in the fall, and I know tour members discreetly encouraged our guides to test a few people who were hacking away. Because you are right, guides are in the front of the bus, or the front or back of the group while touring, and may not always notice beyond a normal random cough or two. In this case, tests were negative, thank goodness, although they did make one couple skip a day tour so they could test again before rejoining, and then made them mask up for another day or so.

I hope your symptoms are mild and you can get out to see some things. We know from experience that it sucks to be stuck in Europe, not being able to do things, and having to re-plan your trip.

We were on the Loire to South of France tour a year ago, and by the time we arrived in Nice, there were 8 of us left out of 24 travelers and one guide--2 guides got COVID as well. We had to get a new guide halfway into the trip, then the replacement got sick as well.

It was a small subdued group that drove that final leg of our journey to Nice.

We're headed to Italy for the Best of Tuscany tour in about 4 weeks, again with my brother and his wife (who had to leave last year's tour). We're optimistic that this trip will be much smoother.

I will be the devils advocate here and suggest a different approach that will likely not be popular on the Forum. It is true that Covid is still with us, as are numerous other contagious diseases that have always been a risk of group travel. It seems strange to me and illogical that even though EVERYONE on tour is vaccinated for Covid, the ONLY illness that results in expulsion is Covid. I have not read any post on the Forum about anyone being seriously ill with Covid, perhaps because everyone is vaccinated. But many posters were expelled who had little or no symptoms. In each of the 8 RS tours I have taken, there are usually a few people coughing and sneezing. Most make efforts to avoid infecting others as they should, but prior to Covid no one expected that fellow travelers would be removed from the tour. Sadly, some are now tattling and actively seeking to expel people. A little more tolerance and less indignation would seem to be a better response.

If you see someone coughing and blowing their nose, ask the tour guide if she’s aware that there’s a sick couple on the bus.

Or…..Somebody is suffering with typical allergies. I wouldn’t want to be in a position in which I am turning in people who blow their nose often.

Right now everything is blooming. The Plane Tree here in particular bothers me but I would gladly do a 15 minute nose swab to rule out COVID rather than pass what I contracted on to someone else. I guess that’s what I mean by caring for others. And I have been down for 4 straight days now. I’m vaccinated, 4 times boosted and normally in relatively good health. Not everyone reacts with mild symptoms to some of the variants out there.

Covid has shown us that it is NOT the same as other respiratory viruses like a cold so it does indeed require greater vigilance, particularly in group travel tours. The challenge however, is that the precautions one might take throughout cannot be done during indoor meals. The other challenge is that in spite of vaccines, some folks can still end up with a serious version and it’s impossible to predict before hand.

"It seems strange to me and illogical that even though EVERYONE on tour is vaccinated for Covid, the ONLY illness that results in expulsion is Covid. "

I agree with you. I've seen sick people on tours before and after Covid. Back in 2012, a lady who was obviously sick took out half of the tour due to a stomach flu. Sick people were not kicked off (I realize there is no protocol for this) but it was a mess anyway. And for those of you giving the tour guide a hall pass because he is at the front of the bus, I don't buy it. If you are coughing on the bus, you are coughing off the bus also. Everybody is acutely aware, especially during Covid, who appears sick. Personally, I think RS has put the tour guides in a no-win situation, they don't want to be the enforcers. I wish everybody just policed themselves but alas there are always a few who don't.

I agree with testing people who have symptoms but I've had two bad coughing illnesses-one in Aug and one in Mar and tested negative both times. In contrast, when I had Covid, my main symptom was tiredness and I was sure it was a mild cold until I took the test required to get on the plane last June and had an unpleasant surprise. My husband had no symptoms and never tested positive despite being in close contact with me 24-7. Yet he developed later in the summer and could only have gotten it at the grocery store or Target. The case he had then was much worse than my case. This variability in severity of the disease and the symptoms and how you catch it make no sense. I would much rather have the version of Covid that I had than have any stomach illness.

This isn't going to be popular either, but I wonder why some people coming over are getting sick so quickly and people are discussing testing, masking, precautions, home tests, and pavloxid.
Is it different variants, or because people live in a car culture with little exposure to others? Are people going out in public less?

It's not an issue among groups where I live in the south of France. The word Covid never comes up in the FB private groups, not even the Striclty Santé (health) France group. It doesn't come up in conversations, even among other Americans. I have been on several day trips with large groups, in a full bus, where no one wore masks. We have two organized multi-day trips coming up with French companies, but when the C-questions started on the RS Forum again this year, I realized that the French tour companies have no Covid rules or requirements. Why is it so different?

Simpgolf you bring up a valid point when it relates to illness on a tour. There are many contagious diseases beyond Covid that can and do affect group travel. We saw this first hand before Covid was a problem. One of our tour members arrived and was obviously not well. So much so that on our first local tour she passed out in the Capitoline Museum resulting in her hospitalization. After two days in the hospital she returned to the tour. She was not 100 percent but continued with us. By the end of the tour more than half were showing severe symptoms. So it it not just Covid that we need to be concerned with. I am not sure how to control this but believe that we all need to be more responsible in looking out for the greater good. This is an area that needs a lot of work in our society.

Bets, good question. In March we were in Disneyland with literally thousands of people at close distance, only seeing an occasional person with a mask. No problem. We were on a plane with hundreds of people for 10 hours with only a few masked. No problem. We get to Lisbon join a tour group and within 6 days myself and another woman who I had virtually no contact with, came down with Covid at the same time. The only things we had in common were we were on the same tour and on the same bus where someone was hacking and blowing their nose.

Bets is right. Covid is not an issue for the vast majority of group travelers, including RS tours. The posts on this Forum are not representative of the people on the 4 RS tours I have taken post Covid. Last year we lost 16 of 28 travelers to the Covid protocols on a South of France tour. If the other tour members had been allowed to vote, we would have unanimously opted for them to stay on the tour. The mood of the tour was devastated by their departure. This year on two tours including 57 people only 3 were concerned enough to occasionally wear a mask. And while no one wants to get sick while traveling, it is and always has been an inherent risk of group travel. Those who want to avoid this risk should travel independently.

To me, the timing does suggest that it was caught on the plane.
But neither pre or post Covid am I used to encountering people coughing and sneezing like that on public transit, in the UK.
That to me is the odder part of this story.
Last week I came across someone like that in a meeting, coughing away and got my mask ready. But a glass of water later showed it was just a dry throat, and that I was being too hyper sensitive. No one else showed any concern.
Not the first time I have over reacted.
Here Covid cases collapsed when free testing ended. Very few people now test in the UK, and case counts remain low. It's almost as if testing was keeping the pandemic alive.
There are strange, unexplained differences here between continents.
I actually wonder if masking is counter productive, in keeping things too clean.
A hypothesis from a total non scientist.

This isn't going to be popular either, but I wonder why some people coming over are getting sick so quickly and people are discussing testing, masking, precautions, home tests, and pavloxid.
Is it different variants, or because people live in a car culture with little exposure to others? Are people going out in public less?

I am wondering the same thing, Bets. When it’s raining, I’m taking the bus or subway and both are crowded often to the point of standing room only. My husband commutes on crowded subways every day. There are crowds waiting on line at the grocery store & cashiers. When we see a play, there are crowds as we wait on line to enter the theater as well as those long lines to use bathrooms. Countless people are blowing their noses, coughing, sneezing, etc. How is anyone who goes on a Rick Steves tour so isolated that they’re not used to being close to people indoors?

But the hacking and blowing her nose could be 75% allergies and 25% COVID. Yours could be, too. You could have some COVID up your nose but the blooming plants are knocking you out. It's hard to distinguish.

We don't know where you are, but I hope as soon as your required down days are finished and you are negative, that you take a Tylenol, an antihistamine, put on a mask as much for the allergies as well as others, and get back out there to enjoy wherever you are. Consider the positive test as yet another immunity boosting event. In much of Europe you aren't even required to isolate nowadays.

There is no way that I would ever vote to keep a covid positive tour mate on the tour! I know several people on several of our tours with cancer. What a shame to give one of them Covid. As travelers, we need to think of the group and not the individual. By insurance!

The allergy part is indeed a complicating factor. We leave for Paris on Wednesday and I started my daily allergy dose last week just as I did my 2 trips last year; it at least helps with the daily allergy symptoms that I have almost all the time here. That along with masking indoors to help protect my immunocompromised spouse will likely (and hopefully) keep us well. Pre Covid, we have both had nasty colds and a bout of norovirus (thanks for affecting my time in Budapest) hamper our travels which is a real drag after money has been spent. If nothing else, Covid has been a learning experience around ways to try and not have a virus ruin a vacation.

How is anyone who goes on a Rick Steves tour so isolated that they’re not used to being close to people indoors?
I just made my final deposit on a small ship July excursion in Iceland, having not travelled internationally since COVID. I am planning to take my meals in my single little room or outdoors if possible.
I NEVER take off my N95 and yup, that's me in recent family reunion pics, too! I work in a crowded environment but am always very, very diligent and the mask only comes off when I eat alone outdoors or in my car. That's how I have chosen to stay safe, and being judged for it infuriates me.
But it's actually now so much less stressful to just protect myself rather than focus on what symptoms are going on around me or if someone is or isn't correctly masking. I would counsel (no COVID yet!) if you are concerned just wear a really good mask- they work IF you are consistent - rather than being in the role of the hyper- vigilant symptom police.
I have an inflammatory disease and for others to determine whether or not COVID is still anything but a mild nuisance also infuriates me. I know a fellow marathoner with long COViD who can barely walk anymore. Definitely no tours anytime soon, they just want their life back...
I took several fabulous RS tours pre- COVID and hope to again, although likely a My Way to avoid the group meals.
Safe and healthy travels!

Karen, completely agree with your sentiments. We had Covid in December 2019 before the world knew what was coming. My already immunocompromised spouse ended up with permanent lung damage and a small stroke. Grateful now for vaccines and N95 masks that allow us to resume travel (we got it while travelling in London) with less risk as we don’t want to stay home forever. But are we still careful, most definitely (nice enough weather means we eat outside or get take out). It was lovely last year to take 2 trips to Europe and not get sick!

“How is anyone who goes on a Rick Steves tour so isolated that they’re not used to being close to people indoors?”

Well, that would apply to me and the rest of the forum members who don’t live in a big city.
I stand in a line at the grocery store or Target but it’s Idaho and we need our space so people even before Covid were cart lengths from each other, 😂😂.

The most people I’m around is at one of the monthly travel meetups where we’ll be 6-8 around a table in a busy bakery.

I eat out twice a month with a friend.

I walk on a paved path by the lake but there is plenty of space. I hike but that’s the woods, lol.

In fact, being shoulder to shoulder on one ride on the Paris Metro or London Underground brings me more exposure to people than I’d ever manage at home in a year.

BTW, not on a RS tour this time but I’m masking and generally the only one doing so. I’m hoping to avoid even a cold. On a train right now and the man in front of me has an intermittent hacking cough. The woman behind is sneezing. I’m masked except for sips of water and eating a bowl of porridge, lol.

@Claire…do take your allergy meds. A week ago the horse chestnuts had not really started. They drove me nuts last year. I felt like things were a little late blooming this year but that might be wrong!

There are crowds waiting on line at the grocery store & cashiers. When we see a play, there are crowds as we wait on line to enter the theater as well as those long lines to use bathrooms.

To me I simply don't foresee a future time when that will ever be possible. I have been to see a handful of movies in the last year. Each time I have stood around outside until the last minute to assess the numbers going in, essentially to judge the risk, fully prepared to cancel. In fact each time it's been less than a dozen present, at one movie I went to I was the only one there.
If a store is too crowded I simply won't go in, I'll come back another time when it's quieter. If I start to feel crowded while standing in a line I will not hesitate to push people back.

Pam, thanks for the allergy update! We also anticipate being the only ones with masks on in the coming weeks in France when on buses and trains.

My spouse is worried about taking a Rick Steves tour next spring because he is an Ashtmatic (and has alergies) and is worried tour members will rat him out to the guide due to his coughing. He doesn't want to be subjected daily tests while on the tour and being giving the constant side-eye.

In the not too distant future…
A man at a RS dinner has a coughing fit when he accidentally swallows something the wrong way. A person at the end the table stands, with an accusing finger, yells, “He’s got Covid, I knew it”. Then a woman stands and points at the accuser and exclaims, I saw you cough yesterday, you probably gave it to him. After a long round of, you did, no I didn’t, the man replies with a, “No counts back”. At that point its mayhem at the RS dinner. Someones smacks another person with his cane, a woman cries out in agony after she falls on newly replaced hip and someone under the table pleads, “help me find my dentures”. The guide, in a panic starts waving his arms and shouting in Italian, fermare questa follia. Someone throws the ravioli appetizer at the guide, hitting him in the face and proclaims, “its the guide’s fault, he’s not even American”.

From the local newspaper the next day.
There was a brawl in a local restaurant which consisted of mostly senior American tourists. The cause of the quarrel is not clear but it seems to have something to do with Covid. All participants were treated at the restaurant except for a local tour guide who was sent to the local hospital to be treated hot burns to his face. For precautionary reasons, all of the participants were tested for Covid, all tested “Negative”.

Robin, I suspect by next spring, with even more understanding about the virus and further advances with the vaccines, there will be less focus on this. Unfortunately enough folks have either had or known someone who has had a challenging time with this virus, (much more compared to a cold) and not quite enough time has passed to be in a better place with this. Perhaps that’s why some Americans are more focussed on this than Europeans as per Bets as many more lives were impacted in the US.

I read this post to keep up with the current goings on with various tour groups. Wow, these comments are all over the map.

They strike me as ranging from hyper-vigilant to not really concerned. We all agree Covid is still around. It appears to me that is is now up to individuals to gauge their risk and act accordingly. We all know that being in close physical proximity with an infected person for a prolonged period of time and with poor ventilation increases the chance of infection. So it is not surprising that being on a bus or plane or perhaps eating multiple meals together with an infected person unmasked may increase risk. If I were to go on tour I would either mask, or accept the risk, or not go on a bus tour.

Comparing Covid to the common cold does not seem a fair comparison especially for some people. It is a novel virus and some may become more sick than if they had a cold. Also, haven't scientists found that Covid is more contagious than the common cold? I don't want to get sick with anything when traveling and have it spoil my trip. On one tour pre-Covid someone seemed sick with a bad cold and I made sure I kept my distance from them until their symptoms subsided after some days passed. They seemed to keep their distance from others as well.

Is it unreasonable to discuss with the guide when someone appears very ill on tour? These being strange and unusual times I say No. Someone said people pre-Covid weren't kicked off RS tours for being sick with other illnesses. Maybe they weren't asked to leave the tour, but they could have been. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it say somewhere in his travel rules that the Guide has always had the authority to remove a participant for various reasons?

Personally, a European trip is too much of a splurge to have to worry about possibly having to quarantine if I got sick, whether on my own or infected from someone else. I know you get some of your money back, but for me, anticipation is half the fun, and having this worry on my shoulders doesn't make for fun planning or traveling for me. I'm hoping the restrictions are loosened even further in 2024.

Last week's US death count from COVID is the lowest it has been since right at the beginning of the epidemic, but the figure is still over 1000 deaths per week.

CDC bar graph -- COVID deaths in US

Some people here are not going to like this but most Covid vaccine requirements in the U.S. will be disappearing next week:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/05/01/the-biden-administration-will-end-covid-19-vaccination-requirements-for-federal-employees-contractors-international-travelers-head-start-educators-and-cms-certified-facilities/

Frank, and many people are going to welcome the change and hope that tour operators follow suit.

I have been tracking posts related to COVID issues on RS tours. In 2022 there were about 35 reports of tour members and guides contracting COVID. The first such report was posted in June and pertained to a May 2022 tour. For 2023 tours, 11 posts have been made as of 5/4/23 associated with COVID issues.

I personally am surprised that once this thread crossed over from being about experiences on tours to policy discussions that it wasn’t shut down,

One either decides to live with tour policy or chooses to travel differently. It is as easy and straightforward as that.

I don’t think it is possible to get the big picture of this situation on a travel forum. I wish all travelers well, no matter how you choose to travel but let’s stop arguing about Covid policy………

Half way through Adriatic tour and no one is showing symptoms, no one removed and to my knowledge no one asked to test. No masks in sight and no worries. Hope this continues.

Hey folks, I think this thread has run its course. We don't have many covid discussions in this forum anymore (thankfully), and please keep in mind that the addendum to our Community Guidelines regarding the pandemic is still in effect. I'm closing this thread.