Spontaneous trip decision. Know next to nothing about where we're going.

You know, from Amsterdam, you are just one fairly short and relatively cheap flight away from pretty much anywhere in Europe. From Amsterdam, we've hopped to the Baltics, Sardinia, and other places. Easy and low stress to do. So while there's nothing wring with your existing plan (such as it is), just remember you don't have to limit yourself to places within spitting distance of Amsterdam. You have a plethora of other options, too.

We considered that, but it seemed like a good time to see Bruge and Vimy.

I would use Amsterdam as a springboard to just about anywhere in Europe you’d like to see. October is a great time to visit so many places. How about a trip down the Rhine, with visits to Roman ruins, castles and wineries? Or a few days in the south of France? The Amalfi coast?

As well as Bruges, I'd also recommend a visit to Ghent. And when going to see the Vimy Ridge Memorial, I'd also highly recommend the extra miles to see the Beaumont Hamel Newfoundland Memorial, south of Arras and Lens. Our driving trip to northern France/Belgium was primarily to visit the WWI battle sites and memorials, so I can't be more help on other points of interest.

Lille is lovely, you won't regret seeing it. I think you could build a good itinerary around a WWI theme: Amsterdam - Bruges - Ypres (Ieper) - Lille - Vimy - Amsterdam. In Ypres/ Ieper, which is all about WWI history, you should join a tour of the war sites including the cemeteries (there are lots). I think this is really manageable by train. You can say that Bruges and Lille are for your wife and the rest is for you. I think even your wife could like the WWI theme, it's very interesting, even to me, and I am not into war history.

Lavandula

How about a trip down the Rhine, with visits to Roman ruins, castles
and wineries?

Just got back from doing this last week. Trip Report is in the works.

The trip will be from Amsterdam to Bruge, Vimy and back. We just need to fill in the blanks in between.

On our trips to Belgium and the Netherlands, we very much enjoyed Antwerp, Leiden and Rotterdam. Yes Bruges and Ghent get lots of attention and we stayed in both towns for a few days each but it was also very nice to be in Antwerp and Rotterdam for some different sights and fewer tourist lineups. This last trip flying in and out of Schiphol, we stayed at one of the hotels by the airport and it was so convenient to hop on the train to Leiden one day and Den Haag another day.

I'll be in the same area beginning on June 25. I'd share my itinerary except that (as usual) I don't have a firm one, just notes on a bunch of potential stops and an initial reservation in Lille. Places not yet mentioned by others that are on my list include Amiens, Brussels (for the art and Art Nouveau architecture), Rotterdam, Utrecht and Maastricht--plus lots more; I'll have at least 8 weeks in the area. However, I don't care for castles and have only a limited interest in WWI, so our travel goals are not aligned. I'm pretty much an art, architecture and WWII person.

Lille3000 is a triennial fiesta running until early November. See info here: https://en.lilletourism.com/explore/hello-culture/major-events/fiesta-lille3000/

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/the-netherlands-belgium-april-2024-brought-the-rain-pants-needed-the-rain-pants

Allan,
Perhaps a few sections of my 2024 Trip Report may be helpful. I fell in love with these two countries, and plan to return next year. I highly recommend Kinderdijk if you're in the Rotterdam area.
Have a great trip!

Thanks Pat. I must have missed your TR. I make a point of reading them. You've confirmed my initial hunch which is to make Bruges a base for daytrips instead of jumping from hotel to hotel.

We're still up in the air about how much time to spend in the Netherlands, but you're making a strong case for Kinderdijk. We spent 3 days in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago and have to comment about this from your TR;

This was not our finest day for brainstorming & being world travelers.
In hindsight, we needed to use the correct Verzetsmuseum term for the
Dutch Resistance Museum when asking/googling directions.

Same circumstances for us. We were close but couldn't find it, and asking for the resistance museum in English wasn’t helping. English is spoken so well here, but not for that particular word.

You haven't said whether you visited the smaller cities near Amsterdam, including Leiden, Haarlem, Utrecht and Deft. Nor whether you saw Rotterdam or Den Haag (The Hague). If you haven't, they're all excellent ideas. (Except IMO Delft, but I acknowledge mine is not the consensus view for the touristy little city.)

As CJean mentioned, I would definitely try to fit Ghent in. In fact, I used Ghent as a base for my Belgium stay and visited Bruges as a day trip. I really enjoyed Ghent a lot, as it had a very livable vibe and was just a beautiful place to stay. I was not as enamored of Bruges as others were. I enjoyed the sights a lot, but the crowds got to me, and I was glad I made the decision to stay in Ghent.

You also might enjoy Luxembourg. I have not been but do want to visit there one day. Public transportation is free, and it is supposed to be a very charming place.

You haven't said whether you visited the smaller cities near
Amsterdam, including Leiden, Haarlem, Utrecht and Deft.

The only day outside of Amsterdam was a bus tour that went to Zaandam, Eden and Marken. Our other two days in Amsterdam was aimless wandering and the Resistance Museum.

I just loved Belgium, so I would stick to that country. I thought the food and beer were wonderful, and I don’t generally like beer. As for food, you get the best of France and Germany. It’s a great place for chocolate as well.

I had super high expectations for Bruges, so I was a little disappointed, but I did enjoy it. It is a lovely place to walk around, it has some interesting things to see, and it is fun to ride bikes to Damme. Ghent is also very nice and has a fun castle. I am apparently in the minority on this forum, but I adored Brussels. The Grand Place is one of my favorite spaces in Europe, and the surrounding streets are very colorful and great for eating and window shopping. There are interesting museums as well.

We focused in WWII instead of WWI and therefore chose to stay in Bastogne. There is an excellent museum there (plus an even better one in Diekirch, Luxembourg, an easy drive from Bastogne) and you can still see the foxholes from the Battle of the Buldge. It was great, but really requires a car. I am thinking this will not appeal to your wife though.

We have not been to any of the WWI sites in Belgium, but we did go to Verdun on another trip. I hate to say I loved it because WWI history is just so tragic, but it was really moving and interesting, and I’m so glad we went.

You haven't said whether you visited the smaller cities near
Amsterdam, including Leiden, Haarlem, Utrecht and Deft.

The only day outside of Amsterdam was a bus tour that went to Zaandam, Eden and Marken. Our other two days in Amsterdam was aimless wandering and the Resistance Museum.

I would then recommend visiting Leiden and perhaps Utrecht. I didn't really care for Haarlem (again, those crowds) but I loved the lived-in feel of Leiden, which is a charming university town with lots of canals to wander through, has a wonderful atmosphere and is so walkable. I really enjoyed it here and have plans to go back. Jane wrote a mini trip report about it that you might enjoy: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/one-more-mini-trip-report-four-days-in-leiden-and-one-night-at-a-schiphol-hotel

For your first and last night, I would recommend Leiden, 15-20 minutes by frequent trains to the airport, or a short cab ride.

As for the rest of your itinerary, I agree Ghent would be worthwhile, then Bruges, pick up a car in Bruges head to the Ypres area for some WW I experiences (Good museum, remnants of trenches and craters, good beer), Then Lille and the Vimy Ridge memorial. Return the car to Bruges, or maybe Ghent (and do Ghent after rather than before).

Brussels is worth an afternoon if you want the highlights, more if you have interest in some of the museums (a pretty decent but disorganized military museum, several art museums, comics, musical instruments, etc...all good, but somewhat niche)

Antwerp I like, some things to see, so lots of options, without listing another half dozen places in Belgium, plus Delft, Rotterdam, Den Haag, and cities in the Netherlands.

Thank you to everyone and please feel free to keep piling on the ideas. I've got a lot more to think about than I was expecting. Leiden has caught my eye now instead of spending any time in Amsterdam. Beaumont Hamel Newfoundland Memorial has also caught my eye.

Its fun how quickly a plan can evolve from nothing. We booked the trip not quite 26 hours ago and the bones are starting to form. Of course I may break all those bones and start over several times in the next couple of months, but that's part of the planning fun.

The trip planning for this one is extra fun because this is our first trip where we're doing exactly what we always dreamed about for years before retiring, and that's to book a flight on a whim and then figure out the details. Booking and planning with only 4 months planning is our version of wild and crazy.

Allan, keep us posted as the trip evolves. It's always fun seeing how an itinerary morphs and takes shape. Isn't retirement glorious?

I actually did something very similar for one of my trips, found a ridiculous deal for miles to Amsterdam, snatched them, then we did a similar trip. We still talk about the trip, lots of fun, I think better if you have little time to plan. Sometimes the more you plan, the less it seems you experience based on such high expectations. Of course there have also been time it seems you are spinning your wheels, but better to spin your wheels in Europe than sitting at home..

Isn't retirement glorious?

Even better than I expected. People kept implying that I'd need to set up a regiment to make sure I excercise my mind and body, set schedules to keep busy, etc. That's what I was trying to escape; my whole adult life had been lists and schedules and people depending on me. I'm now fitter, thinner and healthier than I've been in years (lost 16 pounds since February), and most importantly, happier.

Allan, I love that you are doing this. I've never really thought about it—I'm such a planner that I feel like I have to plot everything out months (or even years) ahead of time. But lately I've been checking out the airline sales that pop up in my emails and getting a bit wistful for a last-minute bit of travel. Maybe I should start thinking more about that.

You might find my trip report helpful:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/solo-in-the-netherlands-and-belgium-my-trip-report

There is no need to stay in Amsterdam before and after your flight. It is easy to get to nearby cities via train.

"Booking and planning" with only 4 months planning is our version of wild and crazy."

Hahaha, ditto for me!

I didn't really care for Haarlem (again, those crowds)

Interesting. We found Haarlem to be the least crowded, most tranquil town we visited in the Netherlands, with fewer tourists even than Leiden. I wonder what was going on there when you visited.

We went to Haarlem primarily to visit the Frans Hals museum, which is fantastic. I personally regard Hals as the finest portraitist ever to walk the earth, and this museum is packed to the brim with his works.

Allan, congratulations on your retirement. Like you, I'm much healthier than before I retired, and life has never been better. Enjoy your travels!

jphbucks, it was very crowded when I was there; mostly with Americans (this was in May of 2018). I didn't see any special events but just figured that since Rick promotes Haarlem so much, it stems from that.

That said, I did enjoy the Corrie ten Boom museum.

I can't believe it's been almost 3 years (!), but my TR may spark some ideas: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/trip-report-the-netherlands-belgium-sept-2022

Thanks for the link Mary. I loved your first paragraph. You described how I feel getting off a plane. I really don't want to travel far after an overnight flight but my wife wants us to head to Bruges immediately.

And your final comments about Amsterdam;

I think we would’ve felt better if we’d done Amsterdam at the
beginning of the trip when we were at our freshest instead of at the
end of what was, in hindsight, a very packed itinerary.

We were in Amsterdam 2 weeks ago to begin our trip. I haven't written the TR yet but we started in Amsterdam and for us it was still "just ok." We're not sure if we'll stay in Amsterdam at all this trip.

Allan, I love that you are doing this. I've never really thought about
it—I'm such a planner that I feel like I have to plot everything out
months (or even years) ahead of time. But lately I've been checking
out the airline sales that pop up in my emails and getting a bit
wistful for a last-minute bit of travel. Maybe I should start thinking
more about that.

Mardee, I'm not sure how well we'd do with booking a trip and just go without planning. We like to have a sense of not only what we're doing but also a basic understanding of what it is we're looking at. We tend to be able to appreciate it more that way.

Allan, sorry, my words were probably confusing (it doesn't take much, lol!). I guess I meant last minute in terms of how you are doing in, in that you book a flight and then choose your destination. In my case, I ditz the destination to death before I book it, but I think it would be fun to book a flight and then plan your trip around that, like you are doing.

I will be following this thread with interest!

Maybe this thread is going to evolve into a longer one than I expected. Some of you seem interested in my planning. Perhaps everyone can contribute with how they come up with a plan.

Carla (wife) and I sat down for the first time today to try and add some bones to the trip. The must-sees haven't changed; Bruge and Vimy Ridge. We may spend at least half our time based in Bruge and do some daytrips from there. Carla wants to avoid 1 or 2 night stays, in fact she'd be perfectly happy if we spent a week in one spot with no packing and moving; so maybe 3 bases total. Next we'll figure out what are realistic day trips from Bruge; Ghent (hey, Ghent has a cool looking castle, the 10 year old boy in me says a day in Ghent is now a must), Brussels, Ypres...Vimy?? I still think I want a minimum 2 days for WW1 but have no idea if that's a good amount or not. I've discovered the Flanders Field museum in Ypres, but if I combine that with a tour of the WW1 sites, is one day going to be enough to do both justice? I see some full day tours that also include Vimy, but will I be happy with a quick in-and-out at Vimy. Hmmmm. I really don't know enough yet to make that decision. Starting to panic, maybe 4 months planning isn't enough ;).

Yes, Allan, I'm enjoying being in the audience for this one. You will do a magnificent planning job in four months. Actually, I'd say all you'll need is between four days and four weeks!

You can do some WWI tours from Bruges ... if that helps you economise on time. And some tours will have In Flanders Fields included. If you can find a tour that includes Vimy Ridge I'd go for it, because if you do it on your own and want to do both In Flanders Fields and Vimy then I think you are looking at at least 2 days. Ypres city, while sort of cute and Flemish, is not the main drawcard, it's the WWI sites and the museum, plus the Last Post at the Menin Gate, so don't feel you need to spend a lot of time on seeing the city itself. The city was completely rebuilt after WWI because there wasn't much left.

Lavandula

In October I'd bail on the north and fly to Zurich, and from there go over to Lake Constance. You'll have better weather, fall colors, great food (with apples fresh off the harvest as a major component), and fantastic scenery. Rent a car if you want and visit that corner of Switzerland, Austria, Germany, and Lichtenstein.

You can do some WWI tours from Bruges

Yes, this. In fact that is how I first visited any WWI sites.

If you are looking for Flanders Field tours, we did a private tour with Flanders Field Battlefield Day Tours in April and it was excellent, I can't recommend it highly enough: https://www.visitbruges.org/

Alan, adding my opinion to your spontaneous trip:
We spent 4 nights in Bruges several years ago, based on the recommendation from a friend who lived in our neighborhood. I liked the idea of a small(er), quaint, walkable town.

Our agenda: Husband is very interested in WWI, so he took an all-day small van (5-7 passengers) tour of the WWI sights in Flanders Field, Ypres, etc, while I contentedly wandered the town all day by myself.
When my husband returned about 7:00 p.m. he was so excited and enthused about his day. Going on a tour meant he heard the personal stories, as well as the background of places visited. I know a "must visit" for you is Vimy Ridge, which I assume is related to WWI. You could take a guided tour by yourself...and then the following day, rent a car and be a "guide" to your wife and either revisit some of the sites and/or add new places not included on the tour.

While in Bruges, we did a day trip to Ghent. You mentioned you are interested in history. The big draw in Ghent for me was Van Eyck's altarpiece, The Adoration of the Mystic Land in St. Bavo's Cathedral. That artwork was one of the stolen pieces in the movie and book, The Monuments Men.
If I had a choice, I would rather not do a day trip to a city, but would prefer sleeping in that town because I like to "see and walk the city" before the crowds pour in for the day. This year, we had a chance to spend days in Ghent. The city had a whole different feel (day visitor vs sleeping in the city).
We stayed at the Hotel Harmony, canal-side, which I highly recommend. It is the perfect location; you can walk to all the sites, as well as restaurants; so many beer choices, if you like beer; great pizza place close by. And great frites! Well, I love Ghent!
We did NOT visit the castle, but walked around it. Castles are not my favorite.
In summary, I vote for several days in Bruges, and several days in Ghent.

A beautiful castle to visit is Ooidonk Castle near Ghent, one of Belgium’s finest. It was once the home of the Count of Horne, playing an important role in the cause of the Eighty Years’ War. That finally resulted in the making of the Netherlands as an independing republik. There is a direct bus from Ghent, the busstop for the castle is in the nearby village.

https://ooidonk.be/en

Not that far from Vimy Ridge you can go to the French military cemetery Notre Dame de Lorette. It’s the largest in France and you can visit there the Ring of Remembrance with the names of 580.000 soldiers from different nationalities, who lost their lives during WWI. Besides Beaumont-Hamel more to see around Albert is Thiepval Memorial and Lochnagar Crater.

Visiting Vimy Ridge any way worth to include is Arras and it’s two main squares.

A lovely of the beaten path city to visit is Tournai or Doornik in Dutch, known for it’s impressive cathedral. No idea if it’s still undergoing renovation, nevertheless worth a visit to my opinion. Tournai is also home to a tiny but interesting Museum of Fine Arts. Easy to reach with the train, about a half hour from Lille.

Certainly worth to see is the Maeslant Storm Surge Barrier west of Rotterdam. There are guided tours in English, but at specific times. Interested in more hydraulic engineering you can go to the Eastern Scheldt Storm Surge Barrier more south in the Delta Region / Zeeland. You need a car for this.

https://www.maeslantkering.nl/home#
https://www.neeltjejans.nl/en/storm-surge-barrier/

From Bruges, my son and I did a day trip by train to the coast to see the Atlantikwall Museum, which was very well presented. We also enjoyed a late lunch of beer and fries on the beach in DeHaan. we were there a couple of weeks earlier, in late September. The whole coast there is served by a tram, so very easy to get around.

Update.

• We think we're going to spend 5 days in Bruges and do daytrips from there to Ghent and possibly Brussels. We're not sure about a coastal visit based on time of year but we haven't thought about that further than this. There are enough trains to Ghent that we can always stay late or go twice. 5 days may be too many or too few, we won't know until we're there. I keep thinking of opinions about Sorrento when people ask how many days, the average opinion is probably around 3, but we spent 12 there and were perfectly happy with our choice. Moral of the story is that we all have opinions, but at the end of the day it's our opinion that matters. Not to say that I'm not appreciating your opinions
• it's 98% sure that we're staying at the Radisson Blu at the Bruges train station, because Carla said so. We had a good experience at the Radisson Blu airport in Zurich 2 weeks ago for a 2 night stay. It's appears to be a 20 minute walk to the centre of Bruges which is a minor inconvenience. I like the fact that the hotel has mini-fridges and ice machines. If I was Emperor-of-the World I'd make that standard in European hotels.
• What do do about my WW1 days. I've found a tour from Bruges and I've emailed them for more details but haven't heard back yet. The tour is a very long day which I'm OK with and it includes stops at two museums-the Flanders Museum in Ypres and the Paschendale Museum. I like that, but I'm concerned that the visits will be too rushed to meet my interests when I consider how many other stops the tours will make. Am I willing to pay for a private guide? Probably not.
• Option B is to rent a car in Bruges instead of Lille and do it ourselves. I'll need the car for Vimy Ridge anyway. My default is Enterprise and the office is located in Oostkamp and the weekend hours aren't ideal. Have to also look further into the convenience of getting to Oostkamp from Bruges.
• Still debating the start and end points of the trip. We really don't want to get off a long flight and immediately take a 3 hour train. We had good luck with Hotel Jakarta in Amsterdam with early check-in and may repeat that. But Leiden intrigues us. This is a discussion for another day

We think we're going to spend 5 days in Bruges and do daytrips from there to Ghent and possibly Brussels. We're not sure about a coastal visit based on time of year but we haven't thought about that further than this. There are enough trains to Ghent that we can always stay late or go twice.

Staying in Bruges and day tripping to Ghent is what we did and didn't regret it.

Sorry if I missed it upthread, and not to muddy the waters with another suggestion, but is Antwerp on your list?

Alan, in Bruges there is the free Centrum shuttle which make a circle route, so you may not have to walk 20 minutes to the plaza. It runs 7am- 7pm, seven days a week. One stop is at the train station. I'm sure you can google the shuttle route.
Five days in Bruges sounds like heaven!

is Antwerp on your list?

We're not sure. It's on a list, but it's one of the places we haven't taken a close look at yet.

Pat, thanks for the tip about the shuttle, However effective July 1st it is €3 except for residents, people over 65 and people with disabilities. Still might be worth it if we have tired feet at the end of the day.

Allan, we are over 65, so hopefully that applies to those of us who aren't locals. Thanks

Update part 2:

• Still debating on whether to head straight from Bruges after we land in Amsterdam. We land at 7:50am on a Saturday, however on the weekend the trip takes 4.5 hours and 3 train stations compared to 3 hour trip on a weekday morning. I'd you read my latest Trip Report retreating Amsterdam to Zurich trip I really don't enjoy that first day and don't feel I'm in a good position to make what choices when I'm tired. However Carla is still pushing to get it over with.
• If we don't go right away we will likely spend the weekend in Amsterdam or Leiden and head to Bruges Monday morning. I've read that Eurostar tickets need to be booked well in advance, but most of the time that's between London and Paris. Does anyone have experience of having to book in advance if the leg is just Amsterdam to Brussels?
• Once in Bruges we will likely stay until Saturday morning. From there will rent a car and head to Arras for the weekend with the prime objective to visit Vimy Ridge. I think I'll book a tour of the Belgium WW1 sites through the RS recommended Quasimodo Tours who finally got back to me today. Carla really doesn't want to see this part of the trip so I'll leave her in Bruges for a vacation from her vacation with me. If the tour misses a couple of sites I so want to see we may make stops on Saturday on our way to Arras.
• Vimy Ridge will either be Saturday or Sunday. Drop the car back in Bruges on Monday morning and had back to Amsterdam or Leiden and then fly out Wednesday afternoon.
• One more question. Anyone an expert on Belgian Stout beers I should sample?

Eurostar does sell out on other routes, so do book those as soon as you decide on that part of your itinerary. Allan, it all sounds great!

We land at 7:50am on a Saturday, however on the weekend the trip takes 4.5 hours and 3 train stations compared to 3 hour trip on a weekday morning.

Have you looked at the Man in Seat 61 website for ideas? There appear to be easier options at approximately three hours on a Saturday morning.

https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/amsterdam-to-bruges-by-train.htm

You don't need to take the Eurostar from Amsterdam to Brussels - there are also cheaper Eurocity trains (EC) which are mass transit, so there are alternatives. I don't think you need to book them in advance. Have you had a look at https://www.b-europe.com/EN , which is the Belgian international train website? You can also use the Dutch website to book trains.

Lavandula

Google Maps must not be as accurate as I'd like to think. Since I was just checking train routes on a high level, I Googled the directions and didn't go to actual websites. Now that I have it's showing quicker routes. I like the idea of the Eurocity over Eurostar as it's much cheaper and I don't need to worry about advance tickets, however it looks like I'll need to switch trains 3 times. That's something I want to avoid straight off a plane. We'll likely stick with Amsterdam or Leiden for the arrival weekend and the other of those two for our last two days.

*I've learned that Enterprise Rent a Car has no drop-off fees in Belgium, so I can pick-up in Oostkamp and drop off elsewhere. I'll have to see if it makes sense to drop off in Brussels or Antwerp. Oostkamp is convenient for a short bus ride back to the Bruges train station, not sure yet what it will be like to drop off elsewhere.

I like the idea of the Eurocity over Eurostar as it's much cheaper and I don't need to worry about advance tickets, however it looks like I'll need to switch trains 3 times

Did you read the info from Man in Seat 61?

Around 36 minutes after your arrival in Antwerp there's a direct Intercity (IC) to Bruges with no need to change in Ghent. Sound like a plan?

And you're starting the trip at Schiphol, yes? No need to go into Amsterdam...

Glad you're planning to go to Ypres. I learned a lot at the Flanders Field Museum. Everything is in a relatively small area, so I think one full day would be enough time. As a Canadian, you will really relate to Ypres. For me, it made me see what a big deal WWI was in Europe(and Canada)-a century later, it seems to have been less impactful in the US than the Mexican War and maybe about the same as the Spanish-American War. I was not smart enough to have traveled there for the war sites-we went for the Cat Parade.

Hello all, Allan’s wife here! You are probably laughing at us thinking that 4 months is a short planning time for our vacation, but we usually know about 1 year in advance where we are going! And yes I have always wanted to go to Bruges, can’t remember why, I saw a picture years ago & put it on my list! We take turns picking our vacation destinations, & then take turns picking each days events!

He made it sound like I hate history but I love history, architecture, castles, & FOOD! However I find 20th century world wars horrific, & sad, so sad. So sending him off on a day tour to Ypres is looking like a great idea, while I sleep in & wander Bruges! Years ago on a RS tour in France we went to Oradour-sur-Glane & I just wanted to cry. I forgot about the WWI sites when he said “ Hey do you want to go to Belgium?” If we get a car, I will spend 1 day at the Vimy, etc sites.

My requirements are 2 night minimum stays! Mix of chain hotels ( for fridges & ice) & quaint city centre traditional styles. I don’t think we gave Amsterdam a fair shake, so would like to spend a few days there.

I appreciate all the ideas & will look into towns, & museums, etc suggested in the posts.

So, the plan is set and mostly booked.

• 2 nights in Amsterdam starting at Hotel Jakarta, booked through Expedia because it was $75/ night cheaper, all other hotels booked direct. Tickets to Rijksmuseum are also booked.
  
• 5 nights in Bruges at Radisson Blu. Evening tour on the 1st night is booked. Chocolate making session not booked yet, but likely Wednesday.
• Ghent Tuesday.
• Quasimodo WW1 tour Thursday booked. Just me. Carla staying in Bruges.
• Head to Arras, France Saturday. Car booked through Enterprise. Vimy Ridge either Saturday or Sunday. Hotel de L'Univers bookedfor 2 nights.
• Train to Leiden, Netherlands. Breathe Hotel for 2 nights and then fly home.

Whew, just in the nick of time, only 3 months to go...

Allan,
For Ghent, secure your tickets for .the Altarpiece in advance,
We also enjoyed Charlie's chocolate tour, which was a great Ghent city tour on its own, plus the chocolate stops.
You have a great trip planned!

Hoping you will decide to go see the Ghent altarpiece during your day trip to Ghent, as others have recommended. I saw it 54 years ago before there were tickets, reservations, and any other people in the chapel. It made such an impression that I still remember it vividly. In those days, the painting was not inside a glass case, nor did it have its own museum with a virtual reality experience. But I bet that even now, with all the additional bother and hoopla, and despite its movie fame and its latest restoration adding to its popularity, it's still something you and your wife would really enjoy.

P.S. All the symbolism and hidden meanings shouldn't be a problem for you because the Van Eyck brothers painted helpful explanations everywhere --- you just have to be able to read Latin. Or get the translations and a lot of interesting history from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghent_Altarpiece

Anyway, it's its details I love, not what I think of as "all that religious stuff."

Well, someone is going to have to explain to me why that alterpiece is so special. I've looked at some photos of it and I don't why. It's only €16 and a 5 minute walk from the castle, so it's a maybe. If you check out this post that I created, maybe you'll understand my skepticism. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/how-to-look-at-art I'm not a fan of Renaissance Art. The Monuments Men story it's the only reason I'm showing some interest.

Edit to add:

OK, I read that link. It's interesting that it is one of the first paintings to use oil paints, but I don't find the actual art interesting. What is blowing people away when they see it in person?

The tour is a virtual reality tour ( with the special headpieces) and they do a great job of telling the artist's background story, with 3-D folks standing in front of you. They point out the special features of the panels, which I would have missed, but don't overdo it. Then they cover how often the pieces were stolen and then recovered- maybe the most stolen pieces ever! And finally, you get to see the pieces, and they are large and beautiful! On the day we went we were tired, burnt out on day tripping, but the tour ( under an hour) was so interesting that we perked up and had a great day! And we finished with the chocolate tour!

OK, I read that link. It's interesting that it is one of the first paintings to use oil paints, but I don't find the actual art interesting. What is blowing people away when they see it in person?

I guess when you see landmark art you have to realise that those instances were the first time ever that someone painted something with those techniques / those effects etc. And they did this in a time when there was no TV, no internet, and in many cases not many examples of other people's art for them to see, plus they were working in a time when there was no electric light. If you can't copy off someone else's technique that makes you an innovator. Plus in many cases people were unwilling to be models for artists because time is money. El Greco got around this by painting people from the lunatic asylum. Leonardo da Vinci worked with corpses and dissection. So there is often an interesting back story to the artist and who they decide to paint. It wasn't until the 17th century and the Dutch masters that the focus changed from religious tableaux to portraits of wealthy citizens, which became quite the fashion because they had the money to commission portraits of themselves. And some paintings are just amusing - Bruegel for instance painted a whole lot of devils being cast out of hell, and they are all farting (because of course this is what devils cause you to do!). That is one of the first places I would look to start my art appreciation, because his paintings are just very funny.

Rick Steves wrote an art appreciation book which is written very simply. I bought it for my daughter who is in her final years of high school and takes art. Maybe one day she will read it - I thought it was quite good, she just isn't a reader :)

Good luck on your art journey. And I do recommend guides to steer you through this, it helps if you can see things through their eyes.

Lavandula

Allan - The Altarpiece has, like all the masterpieces of other famous painters something special that attracts you, but you can’t grasp it. You have no idea how they did it but it keeps you looking. And I think creating that magic has all those master artists in common.

I am not easily blown away, but the Alterpiece is impressive. If you can experience, despite your preconceived ideas a bit of that magic, your visit to the Saint Bavo of Ghent will be a good investment. It's always worth trying, see what happens.

Lavendula – think you mean Hieronymus Bosch instead of Breugel.

During the 17th century in the Netherlands there was a huge industry producing paintings of all kind. From very cheap to very expensive and many had a painting somewhere in the house like you have posters nowadays. From what I have heard the number of produced paintings must have been around a whopping 5 million. The poorest couldn’t afford one, but most where ablel to buy paintings. Ofcourse those whe adore in the museums where made by the best painters making them for the wealthy upperclass.

Can't help you with the magic --- can't usually help myself to magic either. But, as I said, I think you would enjoy the details. Photos don't capture them, not even close-up photos. The reflected light in the jewels, the textures of the different fabrics and furs, the gold glinting everywhere. The identifiable flowers (i'm a gardener). People's faces that are clearly portraits of real people. The drips of water hitting the surface of the fountain. The buildings way in the background. The rays of light emanating from the dove. Some of the singing angels' wrinkled foreheads as they try to hit a note. All the books people are holding. And Adam and Eve are not nude, but really naked --- you can see the individual hairs around Adam's nipple (now THAT'S naked!) And all this painted before most of those Italian Renaissance painters were even born and the others were just children.

Lavendula – think you mean Hieronymus Bosch instead of Bruegel.

Oh yes, I probably do - thanks for correcting. I am not the artist in the family!

Lavandula

EDIT: This is the painting I was thinking of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_the_Rebel_Angels .

It is Bruegel. But Bosch was first to paint devils, and Bruegel was influenced by him, which I didn't know. So thank you, you have expanded my world view!

If you find time:

https://fine-arts-museum.be/en/exhibitions/bruegel-the-originals

Lavandula

Thanks for the links Lavandula.

It’s more a lack of knowledge from my side. Bruegel is mostly known for his peasant genre scenes and I didn’t know too that he also made paintings that looked almost as they were made by Hieronymus Bosch. However I should know better as I have seen (many many years ago) one of his most famous paintings: Mad Meg or the Dulle Griet in Dutch. It also shows all kinds of Hieronymus Bosch like creatures from hell. But somehow I did not made the connection with his inspirer so far, but now I do. Mad Meg is to admire in the Mayer van den Bergh Museum in Antwerp.

Breugel was socially very much engaged and lived in a period with a lot of political and social unrest caused by the Reformation. That unrest is reflected some way or another in his paintings.

So I learned something too, knowing now he had more to do with Bosch than thought in advance.

It sounds like a great trip. We did a half day Flanders tour many years ago and wished we had more time. I do also understand why one would opt out of such a tour. So many lives lost. I assume yours will include a stop at the John McCrae memorial and the group will be asked if anyone wishes to recite "In Flanders Fields".

In the afternoon we went to Vimy and would've preferred a bit more time at the memorial although we did get to tour the tunnels. (The guide had kindly included a stop at nearby cemetery to see my grandfather's brother's grave, so the time crunch was understandable). The memorial is more impressive in person than in photos. But speaking of photos, I came across this web page a while back that shows a family's visit to the area in 1938. I just wish there was a trip report to go with it. I wonder what happened when their car broke down as mentioned in one of the captions?
https://www.capebretonmilitaryhistory.com/collections/personal-profile-collections/jackson-roderick-colin/section-11

A note about the Radisson Blu and perhaps you're already aware of this. When you book direct as a member of Radisson Rewards you'll reach premium status after five nights (or three stays). It's not a great program (and doesn't include any Radissons in the Americas as those are part of Choice Privileges), but with premium you'd be able to activate the "discount booster" for a reduced rate on future stays in lieu of earning extra points. Or, if you happen to have status with an eligible hotel or airline loyalty program, you can match that to Club Avolta platinum (the loyalty program of duty-free shops) which comes with Radisson VIP status which would give you free breakfast, lounge access etc.

LizM, those photos are fascinating. To see those places through the family’s eyes (especially the father who had fought there) only 20 years after the war is stunning. A relative of ours served in that exact area during WWI, so seeing these photos has special meaning. Thank you for this link.