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Safety Concerns

OK, fellow travel lovers, particularly Turkey travel lovers, I'm scheduled to leave for Istanbul on Friday for the RS Best of Turkey tour. This latest bombing in Ankara has gotten me quite rattled. Not even sure if I should still go, although I have been looking forward to this trip for nearly a year!

Thoughts?

Posted by
4637 posts

It all depends on personal comfort. Purely rationally statistics probably show that you are still safer in Turkey than in major US cities. Also you will have a local guide. It looked like foreigners were not targeted which seemed to be the case in Africa. I would go.

Posted by
6622 posts

I think you should talk to the Tour Department and decide for yourself if they treat your concerns adequately and how they plan to handle the trip in this light. No one can really make you feel at ease except you. The bombing really makes me sad as I've traveled to Turkey multiple times (regardless, I still plan on going back).

Posted by
12219 posts

So we don't get too large a sense of security a valid comparison would be an area of 2 square miles in Turkey where in less than 90 days 18 people were murdered and 50 severely injured vs a neghiborhood in the US with similar statistics involving individuals not participating in ilegal activities. Where would that be?

Posted by
12219 posts

Exactly! Well if those Chicago murders had been committed in a two square mile tourist district, exactly. But i confess that I would feel safer in istanbul than some neighborhoods in Chicago or for that matter some neighborhoods in my own home town. But i dont go to those places either. So good catch. Outside of the terrorism, Istanbul puts the crime rate in most large American cities to shame. .

Posted by
5637 posts

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/the-choice-of-fear-in-a-city-targeted-by-terrorists/

We then speculated about why the bombing had taken place in Sultanahmet, close to the famous Blue Mosque. The bomber could have killed far more people if he had attacked a subway station at rush hour or a shopping mall. Consensus was that the Islamic State wanted to harm the tourist industry.

When I remembered all of the concerned phone calls I had received from home, it seemed likely that fewer and fewer Westerners would be planning their vacations to the city.

Then the man at the table next interrupted us. He owned a hotel in Sultanahmet, and told us that a wonderful and surprising thing had happened after the bombing. In a small act of defiance and solidarity, German vacationers had booked his hotel to capacity. They had chosen not to be afraid.

Much of current U.S. politics is defined by the rhetoric of fear. Whether the topic is terrorism, gun control or immigration, our fears are manipulated. We are encouraged to be divided.

Posted by
12219 posts

Edger sounds romantic. But I bet the tourism numbers are negatively affected by the recent events. I did something similar after the Camp David Accords, but that involved standing up to recognize courage and a cause I found moving.

Re: The US sending non-essential personnel home from Incerlik Airbase. We are planning on going to Turkey; Istanbul, Sanliurfa, Konya, Ismir, at the beginning of May. I understand the evacuation was instituted because of the possibilities of retaliation should the US hit Syria. Of course this is an unpleasant and worrisome turn in our vacation plans but would this necessarily effect tourists? Are they only concerned about the airbase? I'd appreciate experienced travelers' advice about the safety of going, particularly to Sanliurfa. I wrote to the museum there and they seemed to think it was fine but that was a couple of weeks ago.

Posted by
12219 posts

It might help if you do everything possible not to be confused with a sailor on shore leave in civilian clothing: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/12/politics/turkey-navy-sailors-bags-over-heards/ You might also steer clear of the Jewish tourists and the synagogues http://www.timesofisrael.com/explosion-rocks-major-istanbul-shopping-street-reports/ Otherwise, I think Istanbul is safer than Martha's Vineyard during an Obama visit after all the area that was bombed twice this year is nearly 2 square miles in size. What are the odds of you being with in the 1/10 square mile blast radius during one of the 8 bombings this year (at the current rate of two per quarter). Go have fun.

Posted by
194 posts

i just returned and would go back in a heart beat. It is now my number 1 favorite country out of the 23 I have visited. I felt extremely safe and I was at Taksim square 2 hours after the bombing on March 19th. We were out all day and had no idea that the bombing occurred until we reached a completely empty square except for a few news vans. Bad things happen every where. We tried to be smart. We avoided tour groups with a leader holding a flag up (or umbrella/stick). We stayed close to groups of muslim women at all times and avoided obvious western tourists in large groups. We covered our heads and just tried to blend in as much as we could to the local people and their customs. Everyone was so welcoming and kind to us. Going out of their way to help us. I fell in love with the people and the country. I have a new respect for Islam and the devotion of it's followers.

Posted by
2 posts

This morning the US Embassy in Ankara issued this Emergency Message: The U.S. Mission in Turkey would like to inform U.S. citizens that there are credible threats to tourist areas, in particular to public squares and docks in Istanbul and Antalya. Please exercise extreme caution if you are in the vicinity of such areas. For your personal safety, we urge you to monitor local media.

To me this is a higher level of threat than the Travel Warnings that have been issued in the past. At some point we have to decide whether we will be able to enjoy our upcoming Best of Turkey Tour that begins in a week. It all comes down to how much risk we want to assume and how those risks can be mitigated. Avoiding tourist areas (i.e. the places we wanted to see) and having to maintain the highest degree of situational awareness may take much of the fun out of the trip.

We will look at our travel insurance policy and see what are options are.

Posted by
12219 posts

We avoided tour groups with a leader holding a flag up (or
umbrella/stick). We stayed close to groups of muslim women at all
times and avoided obvious western tourists in large groups. We covered
our heads and just tried to blend in as much as we could to the local
people and their customs.

I had some friends that did the same thing when they visited Viet Nam. Glad you had a good trip. You are simply AMAZING!

Posted by
12200 posts

@ James...Friends visiting Vietnam....when was that? Recently? It 's well known that Vietnam has been promoting tourism, wants Americans to come to Vietnam, etc. I've known only few Americans going there compared to numerous going to China.

Posted by
12219 posts

No Fred, not recently; it was the late 60's. As you suggest things have changed and I don't think Stay-ce's travel techniques are necessary any longer

Posted by
8293 posts

Your friends were visiting Vietnam Nam in the late 60s? Were they in the U.S. army?

Posted by
12200 posts

They were there during the war....a whole different story. What was their unit? Certainly wasn't a visit. That situation applies to me too had I not been in college and later being in the first draft lottery in Dec 1969. Still, in the late 1990s I personally know Americans who went as tourists, both in a tour and individually. .

Posted by
12219 posts

Yes, Norma, the US armed services. Just my generation. Although I was the extreme tail end of that generation. I just found it ironic that we now have tourist displaying the same behavior as those men and women did; but the tourist are having a good time (somehow) while doing it.

Personally, if I had never been to Istanbul and the situation presented itself right now, I would more than likely go. While I wouldn't exactly wear a God Bless America t-shirt; I wouldn't worry so much as to have to devise tactics for safety. It's still within my personal threshold of tolerance. I wouldn't want my wife there and I wouldn't take the kids; although i think its important that the kids do see the place some day. But, you know, each to their own. If Stay-ce had a great time that's all that counts; and I am glad she enjoyed it.

Posted by
1045 posts

I am also glad that Stay-ce had a great time. I enjoyed reading about her strategies to feel safe.
I was on the RS Turkey tour in 2002 and it remains a highlight of my travel experiences. And I have longed to go to Turkey again.
With that said, to Ponte -- I would encourage you, if you are truly anxious, to contact the Tour Dept. It is likely that they would apply your payments to another tour this or next year. And if you could work your way up the chain of command with the airlines you might have some success there as well.
And please post back here to let us know how it all works out for you.
Wishing you the best,
SharYn

Posted by
35 posts

Wow, great discussion! Thanks for all the comments. Thought I'd post an update on my decision.

The day before I was to leave the USA for Turkey, after Germany closed its embassy and diplomatic office in Ankara and Istanbul, respectively, I changed my RS Turkey tour to the RS Greece tour (it was the same time frame as the Turkey tour so it worked out great). While I love Turkey, I was not comfortable being there for two weeks at this time of internal strife. I understand the comments about terrorists winning, but Turkey has security issues that other parts of Europe do not. And I did not want to spend two weeks of holiday looking over my shoulder at the slightest provocation and feeling anxious every time I heard an unusual noise.. In Greece, all there was to be fearful of were pickpockets, and that elicited no anxiety to me at all.

As Turkey and Greece's history and culture are so intertwined, it was the perfect choice. I still plan to visit Turkey, just not now.

Posted by
2 posts

I am supposed to go with my wife and in-laws to Istanbul on Turkish Air in the middle of June. We were flying to Athens first via Istanbul with a few hours layover in Istanbul. We were then supposed to fly from Athens to Istanbul and stay there for five days and then take a flight from Istanbul back to the States. They are not comfortable with traveling through/in Istanbul--which is understandable give recent US travel alerts etc... My trip insurance does NOT cover travel alerts, warnings etc.. It actually takes an terrorist act less than 30 days prior to departure to get a refund. To change flights to Greece would cost us 700$ per person and no refund. I am proposing that we still use Turkish Air on our original flight to Greece where we land for a few hours in Istanbul and then fly onto Athens, but on the return flight we were supposed to stay in Istanbul for five days and then back to the US. I was going to propose to my group catching a few days later flight from Athens to Istanbul (90$) per person and then catching the original flight out to the US a few hours later--again not leaving the airport. Can I hear some thoughts or suggestions on this? If I "miss" the Turkish Air flight from Athens to Istanbul will they cancel my reservation on the flight from Istanbul back to the US five days later? It is a separate flight

Posted by
6622 posts

Wrowe,
It's unclear what your original return ticket looked like. Were you going to fly from Greece to Istanbul on an unrelated flight (and/or carrier), and then taking another Turkish Air flight from Istanbul to the US (meaning 2 separate tickets)? In that case, you would only absorb penalties/losses for the Athens-Istanbul link so you could stay an additional 5 days in Greece as opposed to Istanbul, correct? That seems like a reasonable approach for minimizing your losses. What would those losses be for the 4 people, by the way, and through which carrier?

The worry about simply flying through IST strikes me as overkill and, as you suggested, you're better off leaving that initial flight leg alone. It's not worth the change fees.

Posted by
12219 posts

When you change flights in Istanbul you will most likely not have to leave the transfer zone of the airport. If I am correct you will be behind security and as such be pretty darn safe. I tend to be a little more cautious than the average person in this forum and I wouldn't sweat it.

Rather than 5 more days in Athens, why don't you look at some cheap flights elsewhere that have direct low cost connections to both Athens and/or Istanbul? Make Lemonade out of this. I will bet you can find something interesting for under $250 each. Go to Google Flights and look at the route maps, just set nonstop as a parameter.

Posted by
12219 posts

Also, if all of your flights are on one ticket, you can't just skip a leg or all the following legs will be canceled. The other post managed to get this taken care of by calling the airlines.

For grins I checked Athens to Budapest on Ryanair and in mid June it is $98 round trip. And Athens to Budapest on Ryanair for $40 and then Budapest to Istanbul on Wizz for another $40. Don't be fooled, with luggage and taxes and fees each leg will cost at least $30 more per person. These are all non-stop and 2 hours or less.

For about $100 you can fly to Sofia where I know a guide that will spend the five days driving you across Bulgaria to Istanbul. We've been to Bulgaria twice and made the drive; fantastic. Cost for that sort of expedition is pretty reasonable. The mountains, monasteries, Black Sea Coast, Roman Ruins, all magnificent.

Posted by
2 posts

We're back from our 4/18 tour. For those concerned about safety all I can say is GO!!!

I had the same concerns. In fact, we may have cancelled if there wasn't this loophole in the trip insurance about terrorism 30 days prior to buying the policy! I'm so glad that loophole was there and that we went. It was a fantastic experience.

I should add that our itinerary was altered by RS to reflect their assessment of the situation - they are engaged and on top of things.

Bottom line: There's risk getting out of bed in the morning. Go to Turkey - you'll treasure the experience - I promise.

Posted by
1 posts

Hello, have been invited to visit western Turkey (Istanbul) and Jordan (Amman). Flying from RDU-JFK-CDG-IST-AMM and return. The state department travel restriction mentions eastern Turkey. Is the air traffic between IST and AMM too close to the restriction area mentioned by the state department? Thanks for your thoughts!

Posted by
12219 posts

Andrews4050 with regard to your visit in Istanbul: the travel advisory is for the entire country, including tourist sites; with specific warning for the Southeastern part of the country. Here is the exact text. "Bold" is my emphasis.

The U.S. Department of State warns U.S. citizens of increased threats from terrorist groups throughout Turkey and to avoid travel to southeastern Turkey. Effective March 29, 2016, the Department of State ordered the departure of family members of U.S. government personnel posted to U.S. Consulate in Adana and family members of U.S. government civilians in Izmir and Mugla provinces, and restricted official travel to Turkey to “mission-critical” travel only. U.S. Consulate in Adana remains open and will provide all routine consular services. This Travel Warning replaces the Travel Warning dated March 17, 2016.
Foreign and U.S. tourists have been explicitly targeted by international and indigenous terrorist organizations. U.S. citizens are reminded to review personal security plans and remain vigilant at all times. U.S. government personnel in Turkey remain subject to travel restrictions in southeastern provinces of Hatay, Kilis, Gaziantep, Sanliurfa, Sirnak, Diyarbakir, Van, Siirt, Mus, Mardin, Batman, Bingol, Tunceli, Hakkari, Bitlis, and Elazig. U.S. citizens should avoid areas in close proximity to the Syrian border.
For your safety:
• Avoid travel to southeastern Turkey, particularly near the Syrian border.

Stay away from large crowds, including at popular tourist destinations.
Exercise heightened vigilance and caution when visiting public access areas, especially those heavily frequented by tourists.

• Stay away from political gatherings and rallies.
• Follow the instructions of local authorities in an emergency.
• Monitor local media.
Stay at hotels with identifiable security measures in place.

Posted by
12219 posts

Andrews4050 with regard to your visit in Istanbul: The UK Foreign office is a little more positive. Again the bold is my high lights.

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to within 10 km of the border with Syria and to the city of Diyarbakir.

The FCO advise against all but essential travel to:
•the remaining areas of Sirnak, Mardin, Sanliurfa, Gaziantep, Diyarbakir, Kilis and Hatay provinces
•Siirt, Tunceli and Hakkari

Security force operations against the PKK and related groups are ongoing in the Sur district of Diyarbakir. The FCO advise against all travel to the city of Diyarbakir. Similar operations have taken place in Sirnak and Hakkari. You should take extreme care in these areas. See Safety and security

Over 2,500,000 British nationals visit Turkey every year. It’s generally safe to travel but you should take additional safety precautions. You should be alert to your surroundings and remain vigilant in crowded places popular with tourists.

Terrorism

The threat from terrorism remains high. Terrorist groups, including Kurdish groups, Daesh (formerly referred to as ISIL) and far left organisations, continue to plan and carry out attacks. Further attacks are likely. Terrorist groups, including Daesh and the Kurdistan Freedom Falcons (TAK), have publicly threatened to attack tourist sites in Turkey. You should take extra care in public places – particularly those visited by foreigners. Be vigilant, follow the advice of local security authorities, monitor media reports and keep up to date with this travel advice.

On 12 January 2016 there was a suicide bomb attack against tourists in Sultanahmet in Istanbul in which 10 people died. On 19 March 2016 a similar attack against tourists on Istiklal St in Istanbul killed 4 people.

On 17 February 2016 a large bomb attack near a military barracks on Eskisehir Road in Ankara killed 28 people. On 13 March 2016, a similar attack killed over 30 people at Kizilay Square in central Ankara.

On 27 April 2016, there was a suspected suicide bomb attack at Bursa Ulu Mosque. The bomber was killed and 7 people slightly injured.

On 1 May 2016 a bomb attack at the Central Police Station in Gaziantep killed two police officers and injured 23 others.

Attacks are likely to target the Turkish state, civilians and demonstrations. Nevertheless, it’s increasingly likely that some attacks will also target western interests and tourism, as they did in Istanbul on 12 January and 19 March 2016. To date most attacks in Turkey have taken place in the south and east of the country and in Ankara and Istanbul.

Turkish authorities have successfully disrupted attack planning in the recent past. The Turkish authorities have said that security has been tightened in response to recent attacks. Nevertheless, further attacks are likely, could be indiscriminate and may target or affect places visited by foreigners.

Posted by
95 posts

Ponte-

Very happy that you returned to this board and told everyone about your trip and that you were happy you had gone.
Can you please embellish on what you said : "I should add that our itinerary was altered by RS to reflect their assessment of the situation - they are engaged on top of things"? What happened and what was altered? I am curious to hear what occurred to make you say that.

Also, if anybody can help, how do you copy a block of text from a previous post onto a reply? I see others do it so you can reference it, but how do you do it? I had to retype the quote, which is inconvenient. Thamks for helping

Posted by
630 posts

sskfh31,

Also, if anybody can help, how do you copy a block of text from a
previous post onto a reply? I see others do it so you can reference
it, but how do you do it? I had to retype the quote, which is
inconvenient. Thamks for helping

Highlight the text you want to copy by starting at the beginning of the paragraph with the left click of your mouse. Highlight the text you want to copy, and then release the left click of the mouse. Once the text is highlighted, hold down the "Ctrl" button on your keyboard along with the "C" key.

Then place your cursor where you want to insert the quote, hold down the "Ctrl" key along with the "V" key. The text should now be visible.

Now highlight that text again using the left click of the mouse, and then click on the quotation symbol under the "Add Reply" notation. You'll see the B (for bold), I (for Italics), etc. This should indent the quoted text.

There may be an easier way to do this, but this is the way I do it. :)

Hope this helps.

Posted by
95 posts

Pilgrim

Thank you for your help. I figure I will have to access this through a computer instead of my tablet. Still, very useful. Thank you again.

Posted by
16832 posts

Changes to the RS Turkey Tour itinerary so far this spring, and under discussion for the rest of the year, include skipping Ankara and staying in the smaller coastal town of Side instead of Antalya. I would say that these changes are made not out of a clear necessity, but out of respect for tour members concerns and comfort level.

As far as flying from Istanbul to Amman, a map makes me trust that the flight has no need to pass over southeastern Turkey.

Posted by
12219 posts

Laura, Andrews4050 post says in fact that he had been invited to Istanbul AND to Jordan .... Which is different than just changing planes in Istanbul and then flying on. Which is why i thought a mention of Istanbul was appropriate. As far as his trip to Jordan is concerned, i envy him. Maybe i make it next year...... Hope he files a trip report.

Posted by
14241 posts

The day in Ankara was my least favorite on the Turkey tour, and I a small seaside town in Antalya sounds delightful.

Posted by
1 posts

Have just finished Steves 13 Day Tour of Turkey and are back in Instanbul for a few more days. We've felt completely safe the entire time - with tour and on our own. People really appreciated seeing travelers - tourism is bust here (which means we've had most sites almost to ourselves!)

Posted by
2525 posts

So, I noticed there is only one Best of Istanbul tour listed for 2017 and no Best of Turkey tours for next year. Is that the final answer? Sad, as tourism Turkey is taking a major hit.

Posted by
35 posts

Bruce - Only the 2017 early spring tours are listed for any of the European tours. Hopefully other dates will be included for Turkey when the rest of the 2017 tours are listed in a month or two.

Posted by
2525 posts

Thanks for noting the early season bookings only, Denverite. I do hope a full schedule of tours are offered and filled. In the past two months, friends and two relatives (three different trips total) enjoyed Turkey with no unusual threats noted. I look forward to a return to Turkey, but other trips are first up for now.

Posted by
448 posts

This is scary. I went through the Ataturk airport (coming and going) two years ago, and was impressed that one had to go through security just to get inside the airport and then again to get to the boarding area. The bombing took place outside of the international terminal so now tourists are being targeted. Turkey's travel industry just took a nose dive.

Posted by
5637 posts

A very relevant question. Airport attack story is still unfolding. News stories are reporting 31 to 32 fatalities and many injured.

http://www.dw.com/en/many-dead-in-istanbul-airport-suicide-attack-turkish-officials-say/a-19363203

Many dead in Istanbul airport suicide attack, Turkish officials say At
least 31 people have been killed and 60 wounded in multiple suicide
bombings at Istanbul's international Ataturk airport. Suspicion is
falling on 'IS' militants. The US has grounded all Istanbul-bound
flights.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/28/europe/turkey-istanbul-airport-attacks/index.html

At least 31 people have been killed and another 147 wounded in the
suicide attacks at Istanbul Ataturk Airport, according to Turkey's
Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag. Three bombers were also killed,
Istanbul Gov. Vasip Sahin said. A total of 49 ambulances were sent to
the site.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36658187

Istanbul Ataturk airport attack: At least 32 dead and dozens injured

Posted by
4 posts

My husband and I returned last week from a wonderful trip to Istanbul, Cappadocia, and Bodrum. I had my own reservations about moving forward with our trip, but I'm glad we went. People were friendly, the food was delicious, and we felt safe the entire time. Overall our trip was wonderful!! So sad to hear about these recent events. It's a beautiful country that really needs tourism....

Posted by
5637 posts

US State Department Turkey Travel Warning
LAST UPDATED: JUNE 27, 2016
The U.S. Department of State warns U.S. citizens of increased threats from terrorist groups throughout Turkey and to avoid travel to southeastern Turkey. This replaces the Travel Warning dated March 29, 2016.

Foreign and U.S. tourists have been explicitly targeted by international and indigenous terrorist organizations. As stated in the Worldwide Caution dated March 3, 2016, throughout Europe extremists have targeted large sporting events, theatres, open markets, aviation services, transportation systems, and public venues where people congregate as well as religious sites and high-profile events. U.S. citizens are reminded to review personal security plans and remain vigilant at all times. U.S. Government personnel in Turkey remain subject to travel restrictions in the southeastern provinces of Hatay, Kilis, Gaziantep, Sanliurfa, Sirnak, Diyarbakir, Van, Siirt, Mus, Mardin, Batman, Bingol, Tunceli, Hakkari, Bitlis, and Elazig. U.S. citizens should avoid areas in close proximity to the Syrian border.

Posted by
12219 posts

What people don't realize because they are trapped in their fear box

I am not saying people should or should not go anyplace; but those who express condescending attitudes towards those who have differing comfort zones should be ashamed.

Posted by
2525 posts

How many Travel Forum posters are avoiding Paris and Brussels where many people have been killed and injured by terrorists the past couple of years? My chance of being killed or injured is FAR greater at the hands of a local drunk driver than by a terrorist while traveling throughout the world.

Posted by
14241 posts

From one website (which says data is based on police reports), this month there were 65 people shot and killed, another 354 shot and wounded in Chicago. Since the beginning of the year, 296 shot and killed, 1652 shot and wounded. http://heyjack@$$.com/ This article tends to confirm the reliability of the data and the dangers USA Today

So here's my question. I'm flying to Chicago via IST in 2 weeks, planning to spend about 2-1/2 weeks in Chicago over the next 5 weeks before flying home via IST. Should I go somewhere else in the U.S. or just stay in Turkey?

Posted by
12219 posts

You should do what ever feels good to you, and you shouldnt be the receipant of insult or recrimination because of that choice. I get slammed here not because of my position, but because I refuse to be derogatory towards those that disagree with me. I will be in Istanbul early next year and I am good with that. Still there is a flaw in comparing crime stats in Chicago neighborhoods you will never visit against Istanbul tourist zones. That's why all the statistics stuff isn't valid. We would have to get a lot more complex to be able to demonstrate anything meaningful, so I say go with your gut and with what feels good for you.

Posted by
35 posts

Thanks, James E. I agree wholehardedly with your comments. I began this topic in March because I felt conflicted about visiting Turkey in light of the terrorist attacks that had occurred there. Statistics about gun violence in the United States isn't very helpful in making that choice. Nor is lightening strikes.

I am not sitting in my home paralyzed with fear. I am still traveling the world. But based on what I feel is a prudent decision for me, given recent events, I have put visiting Turkey on hold for a while.

Posted by
14241 posts

Actually, James, I will be staying with a friend who lives just a couple miles down the road from some of the "bad" areas and I'll certainly be driving through some of them while I'm there. This friend told me a couple months ago that there been at least a couple incidents of gun battles between cars as they drove down the freeway. And then there are traffic accidents.

Because I live in a "high-risk" area (though it doesn't feel like one), I know that terror incidents get a lot more attention than other risks.

Posted by
5637 posts

OP: Nor is lightening strikes.

Outdoor travels such as mountaineering and backcountry skiing involve risks. To go or not go involves personal decisions as to what is considered an acceptable level of risk.

"Objective and subjective hazards are ways of categorizing potential risks found during our time in the wild as well as throughout our daily lives....

"Objective hazards can happen to anyone. Whether it's rockfall, lightning strike, earthquake.. or any number of other occurrences. Your personal abilities have nothing to do with these events, for they would occur on their own whether you are there or not. Although some poor prior judgement can put you in harm's way, it largely comes down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"Subjective hazards, on the other hand, are [self caused] incidents. These hazards can be controlled or minimized through proper experience, skill, and conditioning.

"Some hazards, such as [lightning], fall into both categories. They are objective because [lightning happens], but poor decision making can cause a human trigger [e.g. being on a ridge or peak or standing under the only tree on a flat golf course during a thunderstorm] which would otherwise be avoided. So even with objective hazards, you are still making the decision to be there at that time.

"Acceptable risk refers to a personal line which measures both objective and subjective hazards; everything below this line is comfortable and anything above it is deemed crazy or idiotic.

http://www.outdoorblueprint.com/read/objective-vs-subjective-hazards/

Posted by
12219 posts

Chani; its all subjective. You are absolutely correct in your reasoning.... for you. And I have no opinion on that one way or the other. I simply have respect for your point of view.

You are still arguing with me about the safety of Istanbul vs...... That's never been my issue. If you buy my ticket I will leave tomorrow. It IS within my comfort zone under the right circumstances (FREE).

I just get tired of the badgering of people with different opinions on subjective issues. This forum at times is a perfect reflection of why the world is so screwed up. I will always defend the victims of personal attacks based on a difference of beliefs.

And Istanbul is in my plans next spring but only because I have to spend the night to make a connection to where I really want to go. Personally I am glad I have been to Istanbul, but its not a place I fell in love with nor want to return to.

I am not going to argue the supposed facts that get posted here. They are so poorly considered and so far from being relevant to individual situations that they are pretty meaningless. I have read your posts, you are very intelligent, so consider the relevance of the blanket statistics. All of France vs the inner city of Phili for instance. Makes no sense. In the US most killings are done by people that know each other. How many people do you know in Chicago and are they likely to kill you..... See its all way to complicated to just start spouting out. But yes, I would choose the airport in Istanbul over some neighborhoods in the US.

Read Edgar's post. The article he listed is brilliant (Thank you Edgar). It doesn't ridicule your reasoning it helps to quantify it, understand it and build on it.

Posted by
2525 posts

"I am not going to argue the supposed facts that get posted here. They are so poorly considered and so far from being relevant to individual situations that they are pretty meaningless."
Which posts are being referenced?

Posted by
25 posts

We just returned from a trip that started in Istanbul and we transited back through IST on our way back from Italy (by the way, impressed with Turkish Airlines). We departed IST after our visit days before the airport bombing and followed it closely as the story developed. No one can tell you if visiting Turkey is right for you, it depends on your concerns and feelings. I can tell you that we thoroughly enjoyed Istanbul and interacting with many people during Ramadan. The violent acts of terrorists can never be controlled and it could happen anywhere (London, Madrid, NY...). If you are concerned enough that it would negatively impact your trip, I wouldn't go. If after realistically evaluating the risk you feel comfortable, by all means go. I hope this helped in some way.

Keith