Advice on 16-day Turkey itinerary

I have not been to Turkey yet -- I'm going in September -- but in my research I found this in Rick Steves' Istanbul guidebook where he talks about other places to visit in Turkey

Izmir is primarily a transit hub and not worth squeezing into a short visit.

I'm curious why you are planning on three nights there after Ephesus and Pamukkale. I don't know what to suggest as an option, but since you have that many days, maybe look into some other destinations?

I've been using the Lonely Planet and Fodor's guides to plan the trip so far, though intend to look at the Rick Steves guide as well (just haven't been able to get my hands on it yet). My impression of Izmir from those other guidebooks is that it is underrated, with a non-touristy large bazaar and a variety of sites related to its multicultural heritage, and easily worth a day. I am proposing two (or slightly more) since I thought we might go on a food tour for the bulk of one of those days. I realize there are more archeological sites to the southwest of Ephesus, but between Ephesus, Hierapolis (at Pamukkale), and Aphrodisias (between Pamukkale and Ephesus), I thought that would be sufficient. If there are other non archeological cultural attractions (or even a nice place to spend an afternoon at a coastal/beach spot at that time of year), then I'd be curious to hear more.

I would question spending that much time in Izmir. Of course, my impression may be tempered by having arrived there at rush hour on a Friday afternoon. It's a big city with a lot of nondescript mid-century, mid-rise buildings and a lot of traffic. We used Izmir as a base for excursions to Ephesus and Pergamon. Maybe I wasn't there long enough to discover the more interesting parts the city, but I found it ... well, gray and boring. I didn't see anything that made me care to return.

There is definitely a lot to see in western Turkey. In fact, I was pretty much in love with all of it -- from the little seaside village of Assos to the modern vibe of Antalya. Have you thought about Bodrum or Marmaris?

These are all helpful comments. One alternative I am now contemplating is taking the train from Istanbul to Ankara and renting a car from Ankara (after seeing the sites there) to visit Cappadocia, from where we would then spend a night in Konya followed by driving to Pamukkale and then seeing sites in/around Ephesus before returning the car in Izmir.

I thought that Konya might be worth a half day for sightseeing (which is how long the RS tour appears to spend there for the Mevlâna Museum and bazaar). For the (five-hour) drive from Konya to Pamukkale, we would stop in Eğirdir at the halfway point, which sounds beautiful and like a nice spot to walk around in and grab lunch.

Another alternative could be spending the night in Eğirdir (in addition to Konya) to allow us slightly more time in Konya and for the opportunity to visit Sagalassos. I wonder what those ruins would be like in the winter, and whether they might be a better option than Aphrodisias or if it's a crazy idea! I'm trying not to overload us on the archeological sites (given that we'll definitely be visiting Hierapolis and Ephesus) while ensuring we visit the ones that are most scenic and intact (since with little children, it tends to be harder to get as much out of the museums than walking around the ruins).

The advantage of this itinerary is that we rent a car once and for an extended period, which gives us more flexibility and independence (often helpful with the kids), while avoiding the wasted transit time entailed by two domestic flights. The disadvantage of course is having to do the driving, but if it sufficiently scenic (and safe), then I think we can justify it (and the car is a good chance for the kids to rest up).

In any event, with this approach the second half of our itinerary would look something like:

• Jan 1 - Drive from Cappadocia to Konya in AM, visit Konya in PM and stay overnight
• Jan 2 - Drive to Pamukkale via Eğirdir OR Spend AM in Konya and then drive to Eğirdir to stay overnight
• Jan 3 - Full day in Pamukkale OR Visit Sagalassos followed by drive to Pamukkale
• Jan 4-6 - Visits to Pamukkale, Aphrodisias (if not visiting Sagalassos), and Ephesus area sites, with arrival in Izmir at some point on Jan 6
• Jan 7 - Full day in Izmir
• Jan 8 - Departure from Izmir (in morning)

Let me know if you have any thoughts.

Jen

I think that taking the train from Istanbul to Ankara makes more sense.

When I was in Antalya last month, several Turkish people recommended Sagalassos. They all just raved about it. It's definitely on my radar for the next trip.

I have not been to Pamukkale. I was planning to go last month and even had a hotel reservation, but other events intervened. The ideal would be to arrive in Pamukkale midday or early afternoon, visit the site, spend the night and then make a brief visit the early the next morning. I get the impression that almost everyone day trips in on tour buses, spends a few hours in the middle of the day, and then leaves. I would try to avoid the tour bus crowds.

One more thing. You are going to be doing a fair amount of driving through some mountainous terrain in January. I would try to find out how likely it is that you will encounter road closures from snow. I have always visited in shoulder season, and I have never encountered snow, but there are some high elevations in the Taurus mountains. I know that Istanbul had a couple of major snow storms last winter.

I’m in Turkey at the moment enjoying a month-long trip that was long in the planning.

My planning included a look at temperature averages and rainfall. The July and August temps and humidity in Turkey pre-empted any idea of traveling here during those months. I also would not consider going to Istanbul in December as it snowed last December and all but shut down the city. At night it can dip down into the 20’s in Cappadocia with highs in the 40’s and 50’s. Rain occurs during one out of four days during December.
In Ankara December temperature averages are F30 degrees to a high of 45. Rainfall occurs about one in three days.
I see that you’re not including any beach resorts in your itinerary, and that’s a good thing because they are mostly deserted during the winter months.
I passed through Izmir a couple weeks ago and I have to say, it had little appeal to me. Mostly a sprawling modern city of 4.5 million today. Izmir was struck by several major earthquakes in the 20th
century that leveled the city, forcing it to rebuild with modern architecture. There is little of historic interest in or near Izmir, although Ephesus is less than an hour away.
Perhaps you are visiting family and this trip is dovetailing onto a family visit or there is perhaps another driving reason to pick a time to travel in what could really be some challenging weather. I think you might reevaluate your plan for this family trip due to these considerations and perhaps plan to do it in a more optimal season.

Thanks for those comments. We are American expats living in Ireland (with no Turkish family connections), so plenty accustomed to rain. I appreciate that winter isn't considered the ideal time to visit Turkey, but this is the time of year when we're able to take an extended trip and I'm optimistic the weather (at least when it isn't raining) will be better than it would be other places in Europe at that time of year.

We visited Sicily and the Amalfi Coast last year in late December and mostly did fine with the weather despite similar concerns. In any event, the flights are booked so this is when we'll be going.

I would like to avoid snow-related winter travel issues. If anyone has experience driving on either the D320 or D330 roads between Konya and Pamukkale, then I would be curious to hear. However, if this is are large enough roads that they are quickly plowed (or if the type of snowfall that would actually shut down the road is relatively rare), then I'd assume we would just take our chances.

An alternative (that still allows for taking the train from Istanbul to Ankara, followed by onward travel by car) would be spending the night in Konya, followed by two nights in Antalya, then a single night in Pamukkale, and the remainder of the time in/around Ephesus. This entails considerable more driving and would make sense if having a full day in Antalya would constitute a worthwhile detour. However, I'd like to keep one night stands to a minimum with the kids if possible.

Jen

An update on my previous inquiry and an additional question.

After further research, the thinking for our 16-day itinerary now includes Istanbul (4 days), Cappadocia (3), Konya (1), Antalya (3), Pamukkale (1), and Ephesus/Selcuk (1.5). These estimates include the relevant driving time between these destinations, but not the flight time between Istanbul and Ankara/Kayseri(see below).

This leaves 2.5 additional days. I am trying to decide between Ankara, Izmir, or both for that time. Note that we will be flying out of Izmir at the end of our trip.

The main appeal to me in Ankara is the Anitkabir for the opportunity to learn about modern Turkish history/identity. I'm sure we'd also visit the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations and explore the citadel, but those would be secondary and not the rationale for us for going to Ankara in the first place.

The attractions in Izmir would be the bazaar, learning about the local Jewish history, and being in a seaside city. We fly out of Izmir on a Sunday morning so if we were to visit Izmir, it would be on either Friday or Saturday, which I wonder might complicate seeing the Jewish sites.

We could fit both cities in if we spent a single night in Ankara, though this would entail flying from Istanbul to Ankara in the morning and then driving to Cappadocia on the following afternoon. I'm generally trying to avoid one night stays and feeling rushed, though sense that a single night would allow us to see what we wanted of Ankara, albeit with a considerable amount of traveling.

If we skipped Ankara and did a day in Izmir instead, we'd potentially have an extra sightseeing day (or part of one) to spend somewhere along the Cappadocia-Konya-Antalya-Pamukkale-Izmir circuit.

I welcome anyone's thoughts on the dilemma!

Jen

We based in izmir and visited Ephesus and Pergamon in different from there.