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Travels to London France with Elderly Father

I just thought I would put some observations out here for anyone else that is thinking of traveling with the elderly.
Last fall I spend a couple weeks in Europe with my father he was 86 at the time and in relatively good shape for his age. But has minor issues climbing stairs of more then one or two flights, (needs to catch his breath)

We landed in London and spent about 5 days. Dad tried every. Walked everywhere and even walked around the Tower of London’s wall and with the occasional seat on a bench made it up the Tower itself.
Once in a while at the end of the day we would take a taxi as it was easier on him.

The things we learnt were as follows.
The Tube.

Just because a station has an entrance near you does not mean you are anywhere close to the tracks. The station in/near Trafalgar is an example of this, That is one VERY long walk from the entrance to the tracks.
Many (most?) stations are not very friendly to folks that have issues with stairs, I knew this going in but anyone from Tge USA may be surprised as our ADA law would not allow that no mater how old the station. I have been in 110 year old steam train rides in the middle of the woods in West Virginia (perhaps our poorest state) that had full disability access. And in trails in the middle of the mountains in Pennsylvania but this is NOT the situation in London (or France).
That being said the passengers were the nicest I have encountered anywhere. First day on our first train Dad did not get into a seat before the train took off (a lot faster then is typical in most US subways)) and he kind of slipped a bit and three passengers grabbed him to help stabilize him and help him into one of the seats.
So if you get on a tube train grab the first seat you can the acceleration is significant.
The rest of our trips were as nice. People asking if we needed help when we studied the map.
And once at rush hour a full train pulled in. I did not expect to get on as it was packed like sardines. No danger of falling as there was no room to fall! Someone noticed Dad and his stick and it was like Moses parting the Red Sea. A couple folks stepped out and a gap was opened to seats. Two people got up to let him sit down and insisted I sit with him. It was truly amazing.

Later at British Museum there was a very long line to clear security and Dad was tired from walking and his knee hurt (he had it replaced after we got home). I asked a guard if he could it while I stood in line as there was not any obvious way around. And the guard called him over and sent us through another way that avoided the line completely.
I talked with a couple of police officers waiting for the changing of the Gaurd and the told us the best place to stand (it was truly THE best place) for my dad to see. Without my even asking about that, I was just asking why some had the Tall Helmets and others has Flat hats like most US police. But they went out of there way to be friendly and help make our trip wonderful.
In general our time in London we encountered the nices people on a regular basis. Oh there were the occasional issues. A bit ubrupt in a pub and such bet overall The nicest collection of folks I have ever ran into anyplace while on a tourist trip.
The one downside of the wonderful underground is that using it requires a huge amount of walking and often stairs. The buses are better but even those do require a good amount of walking, so be prepared to supplement them with the occasional taxis trip, it is false Economy to safe money but do so much walking that our elderly companions are to exhausted to enjoy themselves. And keep the overall trip in mind. I think we walked so much in London that my dad was a bit worn out by the time we got to France

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739 posts

Part 2 Paris & France
As much as I loved the London Underground and the friendly people I WISH I could say the same about Paris. But the Paris Subway system is not the same. It is not as well maintained nor is it as well organized labeled and laid out. And as if 2017 huge chunks are being worked in because of the preparation for the 2024 Olympics.
As an example they turn off escalators going up and don’t reverse the down escalator to replace them. But the worst example was two different encounters on the subway. In both instances we had young “ladies” push past my dad (who was not walking slow) to grab the seat that he was obviously about to sit in. One lady walked past three seats to grab the middle seat of three for herself. My dad almost sat on her as she actually sat down as he was turning around to sit, we ended up having to sit apart because she grabbed the middle seat. This was a level of rudeness I have not encountered in Washington DC, New York or Boston.
The people
In general the people in a one on one situation were very friendly but in a situation spwhere they were shielded a bit then not so much. Examples include. The Conductors on the TGV. We had first class tickets and in our car at least the numbers were not labeled in logical progression (numbers were skipped). So we tried to ask for assistance from two crew standing at the door. In poor French we asked if they spoke English, Tge reluctantly said yes and believe it or not still would not direct us to our seat. “It is over there with a vague hand wave in the direction of both the door to the lower level and the stairs up”. The turned and walked off. When we got on the Eurostar the conductor looked at our ticket and told us where to go to find our seat.
Speaking of the TGV. It is surprisingly not up to speed. We took it from Paris to Avignon (and back) first class and it was shockingly short on modern conveniences. No way to track location. Minimal (if any) power connection and what have you. Feels like it was stuck 20 years ago,
Access to the train is not great with those that have balance issues either as the entrance and the cars are not even close to American ADA standards. So don’t expect the easy access that Amtrak generally has.
And the CRAZY way you get on the train. I was in the station in Paris (going to Avignon). We were a bit early. So I look for where are Train will be on this VERY long concourse that has a LOT of train tracks. But non of the signs say anything about our trains departure track. So I walk to the far end where the “help” desk is locate to ask and I am informed that 10 min prior to departure they will put it on the monitor. I say but my father is elderly can you tell me at least roughly where it will be so he is not having to rush? I am told no.
Eventually all the trains depart but one. 10 min before outer departure they tell us that one remaining train at the far end from the monitor location is ours. Because I am SURE that no one knew that ahead of time.
This seams to be a game they like to play. Every station we where at had a monitor that everyone stand under until 10 before departure then they flash the track, so it is off to the races when everyone takes off. So you have 10 min to race to the track find your access point usually stairs (good luck finding an elevator or escalators if they exist) get to the track look at another monitor that tells you where your car will be and get into the train. Frankly it is crazy for a normal person for elderly I do NOT recommend it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that it is a long walk everywhere. Don’t get me wrong the trip was great and the country was beautiful but it is not set up for elderly or those that have trouble with stairs or walking long distance.
I will continue this later if I have time

Posted by
1446 posts

Wonderful report showing how much kindness there is still left in the World. Gives me some hope as I am nearing my senior years.

Posted by
2252 posts

Many, many kudos to you for taking this trip with your father. I am sure it wasn't easy but you are one wonderful person to do this for him-and in turn, yourself. Neither of you will ever forget it. I love your report and like Kathleen, I am so happy to hear your trip included some wonderfully compassionate and kind experiences. I know how grateful your father must be to have been able to make this journey with you. Thank you for posting such an uplifting report and helpful information for those contemplating a trip with elderly relatives.

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739 posts

Continueing Paris and France

Don’t get my comments wrong many folks in Paris itself and France where wonderful. It like almost anywhere had its issues thatcis all.
I would avoid mass transit /trains as much as possible when visiting with the elderly. If you are young your fine.

Luggage
We packed in two small travel cases that could be stacked on top of each other so I could carry both if needed. And Dad has his small backpack camera bag with is iPad and camera in it. I had a small carry on case that this year I think I will replace with a small backpack. This helped a lot but luggage is still a bit of an issue on the TGV. And the second level does not help.

One of the big issues we had was long walks. Could not get a cab from the train station (the far one the close on was closes) to Versailles no mater what I offered or asked for. And at some of the a chateau the walk from the parking lot is VERY LONG.

Versailles: I recommend taking a bus they park right out front, I didn’t do this and it is the largest regret I have. The Taxis WILL NOT go there. I even offered €50 tip to take my “elderly” father and got no place. The Chateau itself was a different matter. If you go bring a note from you doctor if you have any issues. According to two French police officials our US handicapped parking plaque is acceptable to park with (used it in France and Italy) but Versailles wants more. Once in the main gate take your doctors note to the left door (ask the Gaurd) they read the note (yes they read the whole thing) and passed us in. We had no one on line ahead of us and we both got in free. Take the money you saved this way and use it when you want to see the garden. Use it to help pay for the expensive but needed golf cart. In the Chateau itself they have benches and elevators (if they can install then in Versailles why notvin there train stations?). So the palace is amazingly easy to get around. The Garden is huge and will need at least an hour rental of a golf cart. It takes about 45 min to an hour just to drive out and back. If you stop and get out to walk into areas you can’t druve the time will increase. So use the money you didn’t pay to get in to help cover that expense.

Once in Avignon we picked up a rental car. In what may be the worst designed rental lot in the world. It has a very pretty pond dividing the lot in half with only access across it near the station or on the driveway. (Blocked by automated gates) so you get to go down a hill. That has a strange ramp for your luggage. Then a long sidewalk with little huts for the various car companies. Ours was way at the end. Get your paperwork taken care of then back up the long sidewalk to the bridge across the reflecting pond (near the station) and over to the other side to pick up your car (reverse this when you drop it off)
Not to reinforce a stereotype but it was 90 of 100 for looks and 1 of 100 for function. You could not design a worse layout if you tried. (I do this kind of design for a living so that is my professional opinion) .
Once again very friendly people but a terrible layout that had my father walking ridiculous distances that a simple bridge would have cut in half. Or better yet put the huts up near the station and ruin the “look”

Once we had a car things were simpler. Not AS much walking. And a couple times we took a short nap in the car.

We used the car to drive around the South of France for a few Days. Visted Nimes and the Pont Du Gard (sp?). Nimes was pretty and worth the visit. But parking is not exactly close. So plane for time to sit and rest. On the plus side it had an elevator out of the underground lot.

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5326 posts

The station in/near Trafalgar is an example of this, That is one VERY long walk from the entrance to the tracks.

There is maybe a curious historical reason which catches out the unwary here. Originally there were two separate stations; Trafalgar Square on the Bakerloo Line and The Strand on the Northern Line. When the Jubilee Line was built through to Charing Cross in the 1970s these were all amalgamated under the name Charing Cross, but the location of the existing platforms weren't moved so they are connected by long tunnels. The Jubilee Line was re-routed to Westminster in the 1990s, but the original twin site remains.

Unfortunately people didn't think much about accessibility in the 1900s, or even the 1970s (the Bakerloo and Northern Lines were built by an American-owned company!). There are maps available detailing the accessibility; you are generally safe with anything built or rebuilt from the mid 1990s onwards, after the Disability Discrimination Act.

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739 posts

Pont du Gard was simply amazing and we parked on the left Bank (the standard side) and walked to the aqueduct then up the right bank to the museum and then back. This distance is unbelievable. In the US we would have electric trams for elderly in France not so much. The left bank has the best view. If you have issues with distance I suggest a couple options. Park on the left and walk in a short way for the view. If you want to go to the aqueduct continue on. You will have many places to rest. And a nice little restaurant. Stop and get food or desert. (And rest) If you want to see the museum I believe you can drive to the other bank and park reasonablely close. Plan for a long walk and a lot of rests. Fortunately the view is more then worth looking at so take your time and enjoy it, Note thevleft Bank has the better view and is much flatter the the right bank. If you have issues walking or with hills DO NOT walk the right bank. Ridiculously the left bank path was a public road not that long ago and still has limited access for some locals as I was informed after a car drove past us.

Avignon, we stayed in the center of the old town. Parking is a nightmare we had to wait our turn to drop off our luggage. Then we parked in the underground parking lot, it was a long walk and an even longer drive (you have to leave the walls) But has an elevator. Still it is downhill from parking to hotel and uphill the other way shortest route had some steps. I am not sure I would recommend it for most elderly. Still our stay was great. The folk running ourvsmall Hotel were friendly. We ate in the town sq were all the restaurants have out door seating under canopies and the staff was very friendly. It was such a stereotypical French experience sitting outside after dark eating with folks watching a soccer game in tv that it sealed staged but wasn’t. We sat with a lot of folks at a long table and chatted a bit some were travelers like us others where locals.

After leaving Avignon (and good luck getting gas in Avignon if you don’t have a chip and pin card. Our cards with a pin did NOT work) we took a train to Chateau country.

We stayed in a small Chateau near Tours. The folks running it were accommodating and made arrangements for someone to pick us up at the train station ten the next morning to take us back to get our rental car, total cost was about €40. The driver was friendly to.
Only problem we had in that area was again the long walks, at Chombord there is a long walk to get in. If you chose the correct route you can walk more in the shade. And there is a small stand near the entrance to the Chateau to stop rest and get something to eat or drink. Plan on that as the walk is not easy.
Chenonceau was perhaps my favorite thing in France after the Eiffel Tower. And fully lived up to its reputation. But what it cruelly calls handicap parking is the biggest joke you have ever seen. We had the closes spot available and you can hardly SEE the Chateau from the lot. It is what we called a three bench walk. On the way in we only stopped once. And by the time we finished the tour my Dads Knee was killing him. The guy behind the counter when we returned the audio unit was so concerned that he called to see if he could get someone to drive my Dad back to the car, but they said that was not allowed.
Now you have to understand that they had employees zipping all over in electric golf carts, at one Pont I count 7 of them in view. But taking the elderly around in them? Not a chance, So we stopped at the restaurant built into the old barn then we stopped and rested on three different benches. Please keep in mind that on one week of our trip my father walked 41 miles according to his Apple Watch so it is not like he can’t walk. But we are talking some noticeable distances. They are do able distances but expect to take time and have to stop and rest, fortunately benches are plentiful