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Surprised by lack of crowds June 2023

We’re wrapping up a 3 week trip, and I was just thinking how pleasantly surprised I’ve been with the crowds (or lack thereof) in most of the places we’ve been. With all the talk of people flocking to Europe thus summer, I expected bigger crowds than we’ve experienced:

Our flights from Seattle to Frankfurt to Munich were pretty full, but not packed. Our checked bags arrived no problem. Yay!

Our first destination was Santa Cristina Val Gardena in the Dolomites. We explored Ortesei, Col Raiser, and Alpe di Siusi. None felt crowded. We never shared a lift with other parties. We never had more than one group waiting for a gondola in front of us. There were always plenty of tables and sun chairs available at mountain huts. We are a group of 6, so I made reservations for the first night at each of our stops, but after that we just made reservations the day of, or just showed up and we’re seated.

Next stop was Venice. This is where all the people are!! Actually, it felt pretty similar to summer of 2018, the last time we were there. Vaporettos were crowded, but always allowed people to board. We had timed entry to St. Marks and Doges Palace, but the “no timed entry” line for St. Marks wasn’t crazy. No line at all for Doges Palace when we arrived for our 1:00 tour in the Secret Itineraries.

Next stop was Stresa, Italy. Yes, I know this is not as well know as Lake Como, and that was readily apparent in the lack of crowds. What a gem of a place. There were tourists, but mostly Europeans. I heard very little American English.

Next was Wengen, Switzerland. We rode trains, boats, busses, funiculars, gondolas. You name it. None were super crowded. The only exception was the absolute madness of crowds at Interlaken trying to get on the boat that takes you around Lake Brienz. If you want to board there, just don’t. Instead, take the train to the next town over and board elsewhere. It was a mob scene. I’m guessing due to large numbers of your groups all trying to board at once. Independent travelers: use your flexibility to avoid that madness.

Colmar, France. In addition to Colmar, we explored Eguisheim, Kaysersberg, Requiwihr and Turkheim. We arrived in Eguisheim around 10:15 and pretty much had the place to ourselves. The early bird gets the great photos! By the time we got to Requiwihr around 2:00, the crowds were thicker, but certainly not bad. We went to Turkheim after 5:00 and saw literally two other groups of tourists wandering the charming streets. Most of the shops were closed, and restaurants had not opened for dinner yet. But it was a lovely peaceful time exploring a lesser know town.

We arrived in Bacharach after 3:00. The last time we were here in June 2018 it was packed. Not this time. Felt almost eerily quiet on the streets. Shops and restaurants are open, otherwise I would think it’s a holiday or something. Tomorrow we take the river boat, so we’ll see if it gets crowded.

I hope this provides some encouragement for those traveling this summer. My advice (as always): get up early and do your “must-see” before 10 am. And take a mid-day break from the heat and go back out later in the evening.

Posted by
20169 posts

I saw the same in in the last 4 weeks in Malta, Luxemburg, Budapest, Washington, D.C. (except yesterday for obvious reasons, but they already left). And heard of the same elsewhere outside of the hard-core tourist places like London, Paris and Rome which sound to be swamped. Actually a good summer for travel if you avoid the hot spots.

My flight BUD to AMS yesterday was half empty. My flight AMS to IAD was at least 85% full. AMS airport was no worse than any other time, which isn't great. Flights BUD to Malta and back and BUD to FRA and back were half empty. All 3 airports were fine.

Posted by
8319 posts

We just returned two weeks ago from London, Athens, Florence and Rome--and also a number of smaller cities. Not only were our flights going and coming 100% full, but our connecting flights in the U.S. were also 100% full.

The popular tourist sights in the big cities were simply slammed with people. We've been to those large cities before, and it's doubtful we'll be returning anytime soon--if ever.

There are plenty of off the beaten path cities we've never been to. We're not through traveling, but we're likely going to making itinerary changes in the future to avoid crowds.

I feel the same way about domestic traveling in the U.S. Been there, done that. We'll be traveling to large cities for connecting flights through their airports though.

Posted by
20169 posts

It's a strange year. I've heard a lot like your experience. My transatlantic flight being booked sort of proves people are traveling somewhere. COVID may have created something that encouraged more first time trips and those tend to be London, Paris, Rome kind of places. Just a wild guess.

Malta surprised ne a lot. I was expecting it to be packed. Its my only trip, so not much to compare to, but you could tell by all the empty tables in bars and restaurants that they were use to more than they got this year (so far). First trip to Luxemburg, saw the same sort of 30% full service providers.

Budapest was a ghost town during the week, but on weekends the European long weekend city break tourists filled it nicely. I have to admit I enjoyed it as it reminded me of things 10 ot 15 years ago.

When I return in August I am going to try and take advantage of things by going someplce(s) for a week or two. Right now thinking back to Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria or something new like Baku, Georgia. Okay, any place Wizz or Ryan flies. I'm lousy at deciding. Any uninteresting 3rd world Eastern European country that i can reach with my Basic Economy brothers will do.

Posted by
4044 posts

Typically, outside of Prague, "Third World" Eastern European countries
are never crowded for a reason - they're not interesting.

Perhaps to those who are not curious?

Posted by
729 posts

Based on my experience in the past 2 weeks, everyone went to Greece 😳. (although off the main “tourist path” we have had some wonderful, quiet experiences)

Posted by
6442 posts

@Deb, I'd really love to go to Greece, but I am so scared off by the volumes of people I'm hearing about.

@Travel4fun, We had so much fun in Alsace. We stayed in both Colmar and Eguisheim, glad to hear you were able to enjoy it in relative peace. We will be in the Mosel and Rhine area in September and I'm hopeful we will find it as peaceful as you did.

The "eastern" European countries like the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc., are now considered central Europe. My first trip to Europe was Vienna, Budapest, Prague and Munich. That trip was amazing made me fall in love with Europe. I have no vested interest in the area. I told my son, "wow, we are not in Minnesota!" As much as we enjoyed Vienna and Munich, it was Prague and Budapest that absolutely stunned me by their beauty and uniqueness. I was awestruck every time I turned around. Since then, I've been to Poland, which was also amazing, gorgeous and so much history. I can't imagine just restricting my travels to just western Europe.

Posted by
20169 posts

To the topic, if you want to avoid crowds, there are plenty of places in Western Europe, you just need to do some research to find places that interest you and that you will enjoy that are off the standard lists.

I stumbled into Eastern Europe about 20 years ago and despite the low standard of living, dictators, lack of interesting things (what else did he say?), fell in love with Eastern Europe. And I suspect most of it will be less crowded than Western Europe ... but you gotta like it or its not worth it. Everything about Hungary, magnificient castles in Slovakia, the coast and the mountains of Montenegro, the understated natural beauty of Albania, the mixing of cultures in Bosnia & Herzegovina, the pride and stubborness of the Ukrainians (even before the war), and the list could go on and on. Love it, and would love to have a vested interest in each.

Posted by
4180 posts

Typically, outside of Prague, "Third World" Eastern European countries are never crowded for a reason - they're not interesting.

Music to my ears! Please continue to pack like sardines as you try to catch a fleeting glimpse of the Mona Lisa, in between the tour groups and selfie sticks.

I'll be in the Krakow National Art Museum with a nearly private up close viewing of DaVinci's Lady with an Ermine 😎

Posted by
571 posts

I'll just chime in and say that I've told anyone that I've talked to that my hiking trip to Romania (in the Carpathians) had some of the absolute most beautiful scenery I've ever seen. I ate at some restaurants in Bucharest that would fit exactly in a hip neighborhood in New York or Paris (at a quarter of the price).

I've hiked in the US and Canadian Rockies, French Pyrenees (and Andorra), Adirondacks, and southwest USA so it wasn't my first rodeo either.

But hey, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I think it's rather simplistic and reductionist.

Posted by
20169 posts

Hey, be nice. Once he/she travels more maybe he/she will understand why these places have a following, even if it's not his/her cup of tea. I only discovered the world beyond the BOE tours by accident. Now I am emotionally vested in the region. One of the beauties of the forum is we all learn about new places, cultures, etc. At least I have, and a lot. Thanks RS. Maybe he/she will get adventurous and report back.

Posted by
4809 posts

And if someone says they're interesting, it's likely because they are vested in the country - either trip expense or outright investment.

This may be one of the oddest comments I have read on the forum…… Is there a way to travel with no trip expense?

Posted by
10188 posts

Typically, outside of Prague, "Third World" Eastern European countries are never crowded for a reason - they're not interesting.

!!!!!!!!!

Heartily disagree !

Posted by
3050 posts

Good to know, OP. Sardinia is being listed in major media articles as an alterative to otherwise more crowded spots (like Sicily is reportedly seeing a big jump partially due to "White Lotus") but it was only crowded with Italians on the weekend and even the capital, Cagliari, did not feel packed. We're hoping to pop over to Alsace and do a little more travel before we (sob) move back to the US in a few months but I'm thinking my hopes of a last minute London and/or Paris trip may not be the best idea right now.

Also, is there a third world country in "eastern" Europe aside from Belarus? I always meant to get back to Bosnia, was utterly charmed by that beautiful country, and we never made it to Montenegro, or Bulgaria...

Posted by
20169 posts

On the original context of the term coined during the Cold War:

1st World was the Western aligned countries.

2nd World countries were those aligned with the Soviet Bloc, and that would include all of Eastern Europe except, arguably, Yugoslavia.

3rd World was non-aligned countries.

Because 3rd world countries were also often those struggling economically, the term got shifted to an economic classification when the Soviet Union collapsed, and is primarily used in the derogatory sense. Good luck finding two lists that are the same. With ocassionally one or two exceptions in one list or another you will not find a European country on the lists of 3rd world countries. To categorize a European country as 3rd world is ignorance of real poverty elsewhere in the world.

Posted by
1258 posts

I've been to Krakow 3 times and loved it! If someone can't see the value, more room for me. Their loss.

Posted by
2544 posts

Just an update on the crowd situation along the Rhine. These area are by no means unknown, or third world.

We took the 10:00 KD Line boat from Boppard to St. Goar. There were two large tour groups already on the boat (one Spanish, one Arabic), and they occupied the majority of seats up top. Our group of six managed to grab a chair here and there from various tables. There was plenty of seating available downstairs inside.

Both your groups left the boat in St. Goar. We wandered the Main Street, then proceeded up to Burg Rheinsfels by bus. We arrived around 11:30-12. There was a young school group on a field trip, plus maybe 15 other people touring the ruins. No crowds at all.

We had lunch along the river, then boarded the 2:30 boat for Boppard. No tour groups on this boat, and plenty of seating available up top in the shade. It was a gorgeous day (mid 70s and sunny), and cruising along the river was just so relaxing.

We wandered around Boppard for a bit and stopped for dessert near the fountain. Sitting outside at the cafe, eating delicious strawberry cake with the fountain bubbling next to us was a great way to spend some time. These are the experiences you have to make time for.

Boppard was not crowded at all. It’s a lovely town with plenty of restaurants with outdoor seating options. Lots of shops were open. The riverfront promenade was just lovely with all the flower boxes exploding with color.

The next day we visited Marksburg Castle for the 1:00 English tour. Highly recommend it. No major crowds here. Here is my report:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/marksburg-castle-on-the-rhine-loved-it

So, with the exception of your groups, we found no great crowds along the Rhine. If you can avoid places where your groups tend to congregate (like Rudesheim) and you can have the place practically to yourself.

Posted by
4809 posts

Sounds like you are having a great trip!

For crowds, here’s my report from a previous thread:
Albania in May - no crowds. Not Tirana, Berat, Girokastra, Korcë (or Ksamil but I read it’s crowded now for beaches).
Greece in May - no crowds. Not Corfu, Ioannina, Meteora, Thessaloniki (as the biggest places I went).
Weekend in Sofia in June - no crowds.
Dresden in June - no crowds.
Leipzig in June (a really cool city) - no crowds even with the Bach Festival.
Wroclaw in June - no crowds.
Krakow in June - yes crowded, but it was mostly lots of school kids on end of year trips.
A night further south in Poland (Nowy Targ) - I wonder if they have ever see a crowd.
Salzburg and Hallstatt coming up next month - I suspect I will see more people.
I know I went to less traveled places and maybe June versus July & August helped. Or maybe everyone is in Italy and France.

Posted by
6442 posts

@TexasTravelmom, I am really wanting to get to Greece but avoiding it because I thought of it as being so crowded. I'm surprised it wasn't crowded at those places in May. How would you characterize the weather? Was it warm enough to swim?

Posted by
93 posts

Jules-just chiming in with our experience in Greece late May to mid June in 2022. It was surprisingly uncrowded (mostly). Air temps in the low 80s every day. The water was too cold for me but my husband swam in Naxos.

Santorini- the main pedestrian walkway in Ouia was crowded but other parts of the island were not crowded (Pyrgos, Akrotiri, morning hike from Fira to Ouia).

Naxos- pleasantly uncrowded. We practically had a beach to ourselves one morning.

Nafplio, Epidavros, Mycenae, Meteora - definitely filled with tourists, but not crowded.

Delphi-on a late afternoon visit to the archeological site it felt we had the place to ourselves.

Athens-walking around the city, it was bustling and crowded. The museums and sites had their fair share of tourists, but once again not really too crowded compared to places like the Vatican museums and the Louvre, for example.

Greece was one of our favorites so far and (dare I say it) was more enjoyable and much less crowded than the Amalfi Coast area, which we visited this past May. It could just be that 2022 versus 2023 are not really comparable years when considering the crowds.

Posted by
4809 posts

@jules, it wasn’t quite warm enough in Corfu in mid-May, but I went in briefly anyway several days - and lots of other people did. Thessaloniki was the only other place I went (first week of June) with swimming available and I didn’t make it to the beach. But I think it would have been ok. Most of my time was in the mountains. Absolutely beautiful nature.

Posted by
20169 posts

TexasTravelMom, what was Corfu like. Thats one of my options for a long weekend out of Budapest. But its more expensive than the others .... but if worth it.....

Posted by
4809 posts

Mister É, Corfu could be great (or not). I think it depends on finding the right place and that is what I had trouble with. It has some really beautiful coastline and is a laid-back nice island. So what I found suited me and the time of my travel (and my nostalgia). But I would send you to a different beach. Whether you go this time or not, keep it on your list - it’s worth seeing.

Posted by
14976 posts

Re: Lack of crowds.

Not so in Paris where I stayed for 16 consecutive nights in July. Paris is crowded, was on some days typical, ie, hot and sticky, just as I usually remembered being there in July. Crowds were international , still saw numerous Americans at the expected sites in Paris. I was surprised to see more Americans than expected in Rouen, Troyes, Fontainebleau...didn't go to Versailles...lazied out. The other towns visited, Soissons, Albert/Somme, Arras, Amiens, Chateau-Thierry ...no Americans, as expected, or just a couple.

Vienna, Berlin, Munich were very crowded, where I ran into "no vacancy" too often in hotels. Tourists were locals, international, and Americans.

Luckily, the Potsdam river cruise on the Havel was not so affected. That was on a Monday, ca. 40% of the boat's capacity, (all German , the party in front of me were, however, Russian), had a very serene, peaceful, tranquil cruise experience, well worth repeating this lovely experience on the Havel.