Precautions when renting a villa in Europe

What do you think an owner will say when you ask how many previous robberies they have had?

I believe the vast majority of owners are honest people who will avoid lying, so I expect that, rather than lie, the owner of a villa that has been previously robbed will either avoid giving a clear answer (by saying something generic or changing topics) or say there have been incidents but the the house is now safer and this is unlikely to happen again. Either answer will make you better informed and let you know if you need to investigate further.
Obviously it is not fool proof, but it is basic due diligence one should do. There is no downside to asking and the owner will not volunteer that information unless you ask.

I hope these recommendations will make it less likely to happen to others.

Hi Pam, yes, some of the people in our group also reported our experience on other websites. We can't change what happened to us, but we felt that we could at least warn others to learn from our experience. We have often benefit from the experience of other people (positive or negative), so we wanted to do the same.

Sorry, I remain highly skeptical. A story that's nearly identical has been posted here repeatedly by other first-time posters. The story always involves:

• A "villa in Tuscany"
• A large group staying there
• Thieves "break in" while everyone is asleep and rob everyone.

Hi David, I understand if you remain skeptical. I am a very logical person and if it had not happened to me and I only read about it, I might also be skeptical (and full of questions). If you do more research from news sources (like newspapers), you will see that unfortunately robberies like these happen.
My goal is not to convince you that it happened. My goal was to provide recommendations to help other travelers be safe.

While it is not impossible that any villa, hotel room, or even B&B would be robbed, these stories as presented always seem a bit lacking in believability. Why wouldn't the police come to the villa if it is robbed, for example, forcing you to go to the station to report it?

Hi Mark, the carabineri (which is a type of police in Italy) came to the villa but they did not issue a report "on the spot". We asked for a report and they told us we had to go to a police station to get one.

If this--or any of these stories were real--then surely someone would be able to post their copy of the police report. A common thread is that police refuse to do their job (possibly implying because they are in on it).

Until you -or someone else making the same claim - can produce valid documentation, then I won't believe it. And since you claim AirBnB did not help you, how about documentation of your back and forth with AirBnB?

Something doesn't ring true about this post so I'm with the naysayers. It stinks like someone has a grudge against the owners of the villa mentioned.

With sincerity, please no more replying in doubt of the OP and I've only allowed the posts above to stay for context (I've edited back some of the "doubt" expressed in the posts). We've all seen the other posts that sound similar, and I hope its obvious that I'm the one that removed those topics from our forum. At some level, I too am skeptical for reasons already noted, but here's why I'm letting this one stay.

I want to know if our forum is the target of some weird online scam or if there is a problem with theft in the region. I can't solve that conclusively, but I do want to approach it reasonably and fairly.

I've had an extensive conversation with this OP behind the scenes to ascertain if this should be on our boards or not. While not conclusive, spammers frankly don't put this much effort into one post. He's done well to work with me on what is appropriate (safety advice) and what isn't (e.g. conjecture about how the theft was accomplished). I've also gone back and reviewed past instances of this type of report and looked at others on the internet. Aside from noticing something in our metadata, what I've found is that no one rental is being targeted. It's a variety of locations in the region and the details are specific to staying in those locations, so the likelihood of these sets of posts being from a party that is trying to smear a rental (a set of rentals?) seems to be low... unless you want to get into conspiracy theories (please don't).

I'm allowing this post to stay on the condition that it fits the stated goal: to give advice to help others be safe on their trip. I asked the OP to focus on the advice and not the story of the theft and he has done so. I can't change your doubt, and I don't want to as I believe it's foolish take any review at face value, but I'd like our community to move forward with this thread in good faith. I hope you all can find this to be a fair resolution.

Thank you Andrew for your hard work and your balanced view.

I hope it's OK to add this (if not, webmaster, you know what to do)...

For me, the most telling (and the most suspicious) bit is the notion that thieves were able to "break in" to a villa, and rob a large group of tourists of their valuables, all while the tourists (apparently) slept away, and nobody woke up. This was a key detail in past spam postings. Typically the "sleeping gas" story is invoked, but that detail is glossed over here.

Was there any credible explanation given as to how the thieves supposedly managed to pull that off? If not, my BS detector immediately pegs off the scale...

I hope this is OK to raise this - it seems to get to the heart of the skepticism.

Thanks for the clarification, Andrew. I appreciate hearing your take on this particular (and very familiar) post. I suppose it very well is of value except it seems to me that these sorts of "reported" break ins don't seem to be happening to anyone who has posted more than the one post specific to the incident. Actually, the recommendations he (she?) has posted in the original post is advice we hopefully all know and practice anyway.

David, I do want the focus to be on the safety advice that can be helpful. But as I know that this is a sticking point, I'll allow it.

I'm not saying the following because I inherently believe the story, but I'm explaining the following because I don't think that it means the story is fake (aka, I'm trying to be fair about what should or shouldn't make us skeptical). The story as seen in other posts frequently includes the myth of gassing a room on a train, in a villa, etc. It takes an anesthesiologist (and the years of training that comes with that) to administer the right amount of gas to knock someone out safely, and you can't do that to a room with multiple people (not without some highly publicized tragic outcomes as a result). To be clear for anyone reading along, gassing a room is not a thing. What is a thing is that others believe it and will unwittingly propagate it if they haven't thought that through. I admit to being one of those people in my earlier life. So it doesn't surprise me that this myth is floated when people try to explain what happened to them. To summarize, I don't find this account less likely because of how the myth tends to follow this type of account.

OK, thanks for that explanation. I think I will move on to more productive things.

Thank you for all your efforts.

Following Andrew's considerations, I will stop posting responses on this incident, as responses do not seem to advance the discussion. As I said, my goal is not to convince those who are very skeptical (for perspective, there are people who still don't believe that humans landed on the moon in 1969), but to help travelers who come across this forum and find these recommendations useful -readers who don't find them useful can just skip this post entirely. I wish everyone safe travels.

When we rented a villa in Tuscany the owners gave us very strict instructions on how to secure the villa against break ins when we left to go out and when we slept.

The advice given is good for any place you might stay. It is common sense to lock the doors and not leave valuables laying out, yet unfortunately many people leave their common sense at home when they go on vacations. I hope the message can reach the people it needs to.

.....but they did not issue a report "on the spot". We asked for a report and they told us we had to go to a police station to get one. ......

That is typical of any agency. Generally the reports have to be written, verified, review, etc., before becoming official and available for released. The typical time pattern in the US can be a week or more. So that should not be viewed as something negative or suspicious.

Frank, that may indeed be the case. But reports will be issued at some point, and in every case of this type, no one has ever had a report to show. The same with discussion with AirBnB.

Firstly, AirBnB is overrated in my humble opinion. Use alternatives. I prefer Booking. They're famous and reliable.
Secondly, you should rent a villa or a flat in trusted agencies and companies. Tranio is the one I trust. Rented villas with their help numerous times.
And finally, always keep your money on your credit card or in bank. That's a nice precaution in case of robbery.

I will keep that on mind next time I rent a villa -- instead of a €30.000 Cartier I will bring my usual $30 Timex from Target. (Note to American thieves -- there's no Cartier at home, either.)

Like button for Laura’s post. You are so funny, witty, sharp!

I will keep that on mind next time I rent a villa -- instead of a €30.000 Cartier I will bring my usual $30 Timex from Target.

😀 😀

Surely by now everyone in this group would have a copy of the police report, and surely there is absolute documentation of the complaint to AirBnB and their reply.

About all airbnb can do is drop the listing if the owner did not comply with the company's rules! They have no police powers.

so do you have a police report to share?

I hesitate to respond because the details are not germane to my recommendations or to the forum, but to avoid that the ultra-skeptical try to misconstrue a lack of response as some sort of proof of something, I will assume that your question is genuine curiosity (rather than some form of interrogation) and answer it.

So here is briefly why we never got a document from the police: we were robbed on the night of our departure from the villa, we called the carabineri (a type of police), they came, we reported the robbery, we asked for a written report, they told us we need to go to a police station to get the regular police (different from the carabineri) to produce one, the owner of the villa offered to go, get a report created and send it to us, we trusted him and agreed to that approach - we were leaving Italy that day and needed to go to the airport, so not going to the police ourselves would allow us to keep our flights. The owner did not send the report, we wrote asking for it twice and the second time we were told he would not get it and we had to get it ourselves (thus my recommendation (D) above). We then called the police and they said one of us or the owner needs to go in person to generate a report (they would not do it by phone, email or letter). We live far from Italy so none of us flew back just to go to the police. With the benefit of hindsight, I now realize that one of us should have gone to the police station, even if that required missing a flight. If someone has a recommendation on how to get a report now (without a time machine), please let me know.

For those people who equate “you did not go to the police station to get a report” = “the robbery did not happen”, you are entitled to your opinion. I have no interest in debating or convincing you. I know it happened and that is enough for me. I also decline in advance spending more time in sterile debate over this - I prefer to do something more constructive, like planning future trips.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain.

I understand the reluctance to miss a flight but how is it possible to make an insurance claim for the very high value items stolen without a police report?

Surely if the items are valuable it is worth making a little effort to get some of value back?

Maybe different across the pond but in my country the insurers won't touch a claim without one.

So OP's last piece of advice is also valid -- If you need it for an insurance claim, get the police report yourself, don't rely on the owner or manager.