France for 3 weeks

Seems like this is how I feel when visiting Los Angeles…

Hi, I’m really surprised at your overall feel of France, but I appreciate you sharing your impressions of it, including your favorites & least favorites. I enjoy Paris a lot. When contrasted with some of the other locations in France (Loire Valley, French Riviera, eastern France), I also had a bit of that “greater appreciation for the cities outside Paris”. I am probably heading back to France next year which will include many cities - some favorites, some new & will devote time in Paris, too.

For the taxi in Paris to the airport, I just asked my hotel to reserve a taxi for us when we were leaving last December. There were no issues, the price was what I expected and had been quoted - all good.

Which countries have been your favorite to visit?

@phil - oh yes Los Angeles is dreadful and overrated and I live here 🤣

I've been to China for 3 months, Germany, England, Scotland, Wales and Japan (road tripping to get off the beaten path except in China). So far Japan is honestly at the top of my list along with Scotland. I have many places I'd like to visit though in the world (as vacation time allows of course).

Hmm I decided the people who love Paris are people who don't go out to
see other places in France which are much nicer.

I do agree with this, I don't get the fascination with Paris, but I'll be going back at some point to try again.

I'm curious, do you feel if you would have spent more time in one location that you may have enjoyed your trip more? We spent a week in Dordogne in the Fall of 2024 and Id say that was a good start. We've made basic plans for Normandy but no date set and so far we've got 2 weeks planned and could easily add a 3rd.

oh yes Los Angeles is dreadful and overrated and I live here

Maybe you need to be a tourist to appreciate LA. It was our default location when we had no better place to go for a quick, cheap trip. As a tourist we also have the luxury of avoiding rush hour and only visiting the 'pretty' places. Sadly the US as a whole is off our list for the next few years.

Regarding Toulouse..

I don't know which places you're referring to when you mention Central Square and Main Street; those aren't French names. And above all, you were given bad advice by staying at the Firstname Hotel. I always make a point of advising people not to go to the area around the train station where that hotel is located.

That said, to be honest, I found Los Angeles much uglier and dirtier than Toulouse, and generally unsafe.

We've been all over France. Lille, Amiens, Arras, Verdun, Alsace area, Champagne area, Loire twice, Burgundy, Normandy, Brittany, Bordeaux, Bordeaux City, Dordogne, Basque France, and more places to go yet. We love France. We've been to many, many places in France yet, we love Paris.

We've been to many of the big cities in Europe. We tend to like most places we go to and I'm not sure if we are not discerning or perhaps I've done so much research that we do not end up in places we don't like.

We liked Paris more than Madrid, Zurich, Warsaw or London. Not that we disliked Madrid, Warsaw or London, we liked them, but they didn't speak to us as much as Paris. I will say that Zurich did not speak to us at all, but we were there a short time. I put Paris right up there with the other large European cities that we've visited and absolutely loved--Munich, Barcelona, Sevilla, Lisbon, Porto, Rome, Venice, Budapest, Vienna, Krakow, Vienna, Prague.

Much of Europe is just crowded. A person needs to develop some "tricks" if they'd really like to visit busy cities. For example, in Venice, we didn't stay by St. Mark's and we're up and out be 7am. For other places, it helps to be there overnight and visit late and early in the day. Mont St Michel was gorgeous at the golden hour, I have the most beautiful pictures of the abbey with sheep in the foreground and beautiful lighting. We were back early in the morning and up to the abbey by opening.

Outside of Europe, we tend to avoid a lot of time in large cities. But, if its a large city with a lot of character, I'm all in--Sydney, Melbourne, Wellington, San Francisco, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago, St. Louis, New Orleans, Seattle. Don't love Los Angeles, I've enjoyed a few trips to NYC, though no great need to go back.

We've never used a taxi or driver service in Paris, or elsewhere in France, we've always rented a car or used public transportation. I really like RER B from Paris airport. I love to walk in the towns I visit, as much as possible. Paris has a great metro. I will admit to being a bit of a cheapskate, but I do travel a lot, up to about 3 months of the year, so I need to economize. But, I also, just like to be with the locals, and I guess other tourists.

@jo yes 💯 Los Angeles is far more ghetto than anything I saw anywhere in France. Or well anywhere I've traveled. Just some observations though. Toulouse had less "drug-zombies" but still had some. I chose FirstName due to location near the station.

To be specific: Jean Jaures (which to me is a main street) which leads to the old city and Capitole. (which is a square when you stand in it).

I think that mythical big cities such as Paris are so crowded that unless you have to add to your bucket list, you should look for other places that are not mainstream. As a Native PNW person I like my Seashore, Snow topped Volcanos and deep green Forests. The Parks do get too crowded. Traveling far from home is loosing it's charm. The advice to not stay in Hotels near Big City Train Stations rings true around the World. It seems that the unhoused who seek solace haunt these places. Hopefully, society will start to help remedy this situation. Seattle is trying to make things better for the FIFA Games. IMO most of the Locals, except for the young peeps, will avoid Downtown during that time. They have expanded transportation with commuter trains from the suburbs. Look both ways if you cross tracks. The Old Town area around the Seattle Stadium will be a Pedestrian Zone. But hopefully the Fans will support all the Downtown merchants and bars and cafes as they are trying really hard to Welcome people from around the world.

London bucks the trend for "avoid train stations" - the crazies were moved on decades ago, the worst is probably Paddington and it's just depressing rather than unsafe (and you walk one block and you're in rather nice surroundings) - Waterloo, Victoria, London Bridge or even Liverpool Street (Shoreditch is round the corner) are great places to stay.

But yes I can rattle off european cities where I would not want to spend any time around the main train stations.

Don't use Airport taxi transfer. That company took my money when my flight ✈️ time changed a bit and I needed to be picked up one hour earlier.

This is why most Forum regulars repeatedly recommend regular G7 taxis to/from the airport. I have never understood why people pay more money for a less reliable service instead of just taking the fixed-rate taxi.

Glad you enjoyed some of your trip. The Dordogne and the Loire are indeed both so lovely. St Michael's Mount is in England. You went to Mont St-Michel.

There is no universal truth to any of this. I have pretty much kept to Eastern Europe for the last 15 years and as a result I guess I lost a little understanding of what the West is like in recent times. I got a good hard, cold reminder a few weeks ago in Rome. What a mess of humanity. I enjoyed the trip, glad I went, but its like eating that fiery hot red pepper, you just want one every so often, its not going to be a life style.

Sometime in the not too distant future I will need to do Paris again, but maybe I will be wise enough to plan it well for my comfort zones. We’ll see. Until then I think I will stay in the East where the sanitation is still sufficient for the crowds and at least half the folks on the street were born there. But the more varied the life experiences, the better. So no place is off the list.

I noticed that taxi prices from the airports to the center of town are a bit of a clue as to what is to come:

jaeson1992,

The area around train stations in French cities usually isn't the best. That’s where you find all sorts of loiterers and some homeless people hanging around; they aren't dangerous, but it’s definitely not 'scenic' for the average tourist. And "Allée Jean Jaurès" is actually one of the ugliest and most boring streets in Toulouse, not in the historic center. Unfortunately, from your hotel, it was the only way to get to the heart of the city.

I'm sorry you didn't have a nicer time. I've been to all those places in France except for the Dordogne and loved all of it, but I suppose it comes down to expectations and personal preference. I'm glad you've found other places you enjoy.

Not to get too off topic, but can I ask what is meant by, "Until then I think I will stay in the East where... at least half the folks on the street were born there." ? I live in a part of London where over half the population were born in other countries. It's a very vibrant community where all are welcome and I certainly wouldn't want to change it- I hope this is a comment about "overtourism" rather than migration.

I would agree that customer service does not seem to be of high priority in France even to the French themselves. Compared to customer service in CA the French version of that is no doubt lacking but, then, so what? In France that deficiency in customer service doesn't bother me.

I am always thrilled to be back in Paris after that 11 hr flight from SFO . I only do summer trips in France and Europe. You do have to put up with the heat, (sometimes very taxing) minus AC but still far more positives than negatives being there in the summer than in the "shoulder season"

If I spent the entire allowable 90 summer days only in France, I would not have even scratched the surface with an itinerary including Paris and the interior of the country.

The only train station in France and Germany where I have to be more alert at night, not extra, but a bit more, is Frankfurt Hbf, which comes closest to the absolute urban blight, a downright dump and squalor I'm use to seeing in parts of SF and Oakland.

None of the Paris train stations at night, not Gare du Nord, Est, Montparnasse , Lazare, Gare de Lyon, not Arras, Amiens , certainly not Metz, Strasbourg, Nancy, Lille are unsatisfactory at night, they don't faze me at all as to safety. As a solo I know I won't get jacked American style as i might here.

Cat VH you can go looking for the evil in every statement or you can assume the best and move on. The message was to go where there were more residents than tourists.

I appreciate the clarification. I do like to assume the best.

"Expectations" was mentioned. An old adage notes that "If you end up with more than you expected, you are happy; If you end up with less than you expected you are unhappy." Not YOU the OP in particular, but in general. I am told that I am an over-planning nerdy traveler too, but sometimes I do welcome the chaos that travel inevitably delivers to one unsought. It reminds me not to take myself and my ways too seriously. Better luck next time. As for crowds... I used to go to Times Square on New Year's Eve for fun.

I would agree that customer service does not seem to be of high
priority in France even to the French themselves. Compared to customer
service in CA the French version of that is no doubt lacking

When we did our RS tour in France one of the first things our guide told us is not to expect American style customer service in France. It's simply a different way of life. Comparisons and expectations of home can quickly ruin the memory of a new adventure.

Customer service--it's so much better now. Just follow the rules. Once the vendors recognize you, you are past the barrier. Once they ask how the spouse or children are doing, it becomes a give and take: the gift of a head of lettuce, a lemon and parsley in the fish order, the meat order waiting at the butcher's and so on. "Have a nice vacation. See you in September." And so on. But stay within the lines.

Back in the 1970s, the old lady who had the sewing goods shop wouldn't unlock the door for me. Then I told her my mother-in-law's name and the door unlocked. That was the old France. LOL

True, I should have been more precise in defining customer service in France vis-a-vis that found in the US. Not that it is " lacking" but rather different. The main thing how is one as an outsider going to react to that difference. For me basically no problem at all. First of all, I am used to it, plus there are things that have greater priority.

I've never felt that customer service in France was lacking, its just different. I've also felt that customer service in France was pretty similar to customer service elsewhere in Europe. There's one exception. The French feel that it is important to greet someone before starting a conversation. So, "Bonjour. Do you happen to speak English? Where might I find a toilet". Like wise a greeting when entering any establishment. Folks probably are ignored if they haven't greeted the staff person.

I'm told the Irish people are the nicest and most helpful folks in the world. Or was it just Europe? I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out this fall. I was absolutely amazed with customer service in Australia. If I asked a bus employee, security person, museum ticket staff any kind of question, they would answer and actually take it a step further and offer any information they thought would be helpful. Security staff at museum would greet us at the door and give us a rundown of a floorplan. Often museum staff would do a mini tour.

As far as safety, we've never encountered any place in Europe where we were concerned for our safety. I can't say that for areas in New Orleans, St. Louis, Chicago, or even Minneapolis.

I think my concept of Customer Service isn't so much interactions with store owners but more overall design of places, sometimes bordering on rude. I think if the Louvre a place that is internationally known and how poorly executed it is. It's hot as hell, it has poor to no crowd control near the Mona Lisa (like really?), Mona needs her own room where you get on a conveyor belt and go by it. No selfies. That would be a big improvement. Also the lines outside? Good Lord. I went early and did not wait in line, but looking at how it kept growing and how slow it moved was just ridiculous for a world class art museum.

But let's discuss the msueum- The bathroom facilities may or may not work. The benches near the cafe are designed so you cannot sit comfortably. Moreover if you are disabled good luck - the museum is for able bodied people -poor signage, elevators are few and far between, and the few disabled bathrooms are problematic (at least one we walked by had a trashcan blocking the sink). . Now I'm not disabled but I do think about it since I know many who would really have difficulty. And at an international museum this is honestly really sad. I was there from about 830am-3pm. Had it not been so customer unfriendly maybe we would have stayed longer.

Versaille was similar. Now I get overcrowding can be an issue in public areas (you see this a lot in Japan). But for the cost of admission at over $60 usd per person (for an all inclusive ticket) and millions of visitors, this should not be the case and France should make it a priority to be better. Signage needs to be fixed. More bathrooms installed, accessibility. And you shouldn't have to be King Louis to utilize a golf cart ($50 ish an hour!). It needs an elevated monorail that is free with admission. Maybe running just between the arboretum, palace then trianon. That would help. And I know people are going to say "they have a little $5 euro train thing" ok but that is still paid for, slow, and crowded. Hence the need for a monorail.

Now if they charged $100 and guided tours were not admitted the same day, and it had these features like more restrooms and a monorail it would be worth the admission. Myself and others were compressed and stuck multiple times by tour groups. I saw disabled people unable to view anything due to rows 3 people deep in some of the rooms in Versailles at 10am. I don't think they were able to see anything.

Museums that are internationally known, for better or worse do represent your country. Their level of care does matter. It also leaves an impression.

It needs an elevated monorail

The Palace of Versailles and its gardens, like all historical sites, is a protected historic landmark where it is strictly forbidden to add, modify, remove, or build even the smallest structure. Within a 500-meter radius of a historic monument, you aren't allowed to change anything visible on your own home, not even the paint color of a window trim. I can only imagine that such an elevated monorail would be an outrage and spark a massive international scandal. Such an amusement park-style eyesore in a historic location is simply unthinkable.

Fine then...build a small underground subway that links the three spaces. No one can "see" that.

Sorry to hear of your disappointments.

For your future planning, I wonder how much of this was due to going to too many crowded, highly packed and well-known sights, such as Mont St. Michel and - in Paris - sights such as the Louvre, Notre Dame, perhaps St. Chapelle and certainly the day trip to Versailles.

Personally, I will pick and choose both big sights and smaller ones that are a little off the well-beaten track. Yes to Notre Dame, but also St. Etienne. The d’Orsay, but also the Cluny. Musee Jaquemart-Andre, instead of the Louvre. Jardin des Plantes, rather than the Luxembourg Gardens. (We were only in Paris for about 66 hours on our visit last fall, when we went to all of those.)

I think you need to understand that historical monuments aren't products designed for "customers," but historical sites to be visited as they are. If you're looking for your usual comforts on the other side of the world, you haven't just bought a plane ticket, you've just bought a more expensive setting.

And I'm used to differences when traveling, but a museum or historical site should do better (and most in other countries do).

I loved the countryside, but the museums need help in Paris. And lets be honest, while Versaille is a 'historical site' its been changed more times than one can count over the centuries and it has a cafe in it. Should we delete the cafe and bathrooms to make it "historically accurate? Lets get rid of the bookstore, 500m of streets surrounding the place, and of course not let the peasantry in....
Rude peasants always wanting a toilet and a better sign....=p

Even a SMALL change such as banning selfies in the Louvre and Versaille (and imposing a 50 euro fine - maybe to help fund other needed changes) would be a big improvement in crowd-flow, same with limiting tour groups to perhaps certain afternoon hours only. I don't think that is much to ask to start with.

Most likely, I 'll be back in Versailles on a Saturday in July, as planned, this coming trip in July, though it's not top priority as is Fontainebleau. I expect the place to be crowded...we shall if it is indeed so inundated . I didn't find signage a problem 3 years ago on the last visit. Or, maybe that sort of thing doesn't bother me. If the French can handle inadequate signage, I had better do so too, hadn't I?

The crowds are part of the experience at a historical site, especially one as unique and significant as Versailles , the site of dramatic and salient events in French and European history , Louis XIV, the Revolution, Proclamation of the German Empire, the most important site of the Paris Conferences in 1919. Adding modern conveniences are relative, only the most needed.

I agree that Versailles and the Louvre have become overcrowded now that more countries in the world have middle classes who want to see the same sites that you, I, and the rest of the world wants to see. The Vatican Museums were like this, too, wall-to-wall people, Every Impressionist exhibit, too, because people love Impressionists. So that's why we spend so much time on this RS website figuring out if we want to deal with these crowds, find strategies to avoid crowds, or do we want to find alternatives.

As for the condition of the buildings. They are old, water is seeping in, the price to fix up all these buildings is astronomical. Just tonight on the evening news in France we were shown areas of Chambord that need 37million euros of repair that are expected to be finished in 2033. The Louvre had to shelve the plans for the time being to build a separate area for the Mona Lisa because other areas have sinking floors and leaks. We hear about the same problems in Buckingham Palace and other old estates. The difference is that they still have their royalty, so many of those old, expensive buildings aren't open for touring or converted into museums. In France, after the Revolution, many artists lived and worked in the Louvre, so it became a museum soon after the Revolution.

As for the potties, there were no toilets in Versailles and most other castles at all; a few early ones had nooks where the local lords could sit and their product would fall into the moat below. Later some had little potty chairs, basins, or just lifted skirts or lowered britches and went behind a door. Servants came along to clean it up. Louis XIV had his decorated potty chair that a privileged few were invited to watch him use.

There are many areas of Paris with newer buildings and museums in newer buildings from Art Deco to contemporary. No guarantee you'll find more toilets but you won't find as many people.

Thanks for the honesty, each of us prefer some places more than others. Now you can move on to other places that interest you more. We got back from a trip to Pompeii over NYE & kept saying how much we loved it. So we figured out what it was that attracted us so much - 1) Amazing ruins. 2) An amazing museum in Naples 3) An amazing hotel, much more inexpensive than in Naples or Sorrento 4) With all-day dining we took advantage of. So now that we're thinking about our next trip, I'm trying to figure out how to get (most) of the things that made the last trip so enjoyable.

Perhaps looking at what you'd prefer next time will help you pick a place you'll enjoy more?

And I noticed you spent 3 months in China, that is indeed hard work!! Good for you.