TrenItalia plus SNCF or SBB or DB ... fun with schedules, borders, and exchange rates :-)

Como to Nice: use TrenItalia to buy your Como to Milan ticket and your ticket for a direct train from Milan to Ventimiglia, Ventimille in French. Trenitalia ends in Ventimiglia. I just paid about 30€ for the Milan to Ventimiglia ticket in 1st class for a 3.5 hours ride. Use TrenItalia.
Next you get the local SNCF commuter train from Ventimiglia to go over the border and all the way to Nice. No reserved seats and prices don’t change. These run every 20 minutes and it’s just under an hour’s ride. It should be in the 15-20 € per ticket.
Italian trains are less expensive than French trains, FYI.

It is 10.20 EUR anytime fare from Ventimiglia to Nice Ville on the frequent Zou! trains. No 1st class.

SNCF and Trenitalia hate each other. There is a train station in France, operated by SNCF, where only Trenitalia trains stop, and the local SNCF ticket office will not sell you a ticket for those trains. So they have a manned ticket office there, that sells no tickets...

SNCF is also not the lightest bit interested in trains outside of France, except a handful of trains that serve Paris. In fact, if it was up to them they would only run trains to Paris. That there is such a thing as a local service around Nice is because the local authorities have dragged SNCF kicking and screaming in to doing it. (And increasingly the regions are looking at other companies to run trains. The fast Nice - Marseille trains for example are now run by Transdev, not SNCF).

So travelling from somewhere not Paris to somewhere else not Paris you will encounter utter indifference from SNCF. Travelling from sowhere outside of France to somewhere in France not Paris SNCF is not the slightest bit interested in you...

Sorry for the rant. But frequent train travellers know that SNCF is the enemy.

Anyway. Ventimiglia to Nice is a frequent, local service. Worrying about that in advance is like worrying about NY Subway tickets months in advance. For that section just book Como - Ventimiglia with Trenitalia, and get the ticket for the short hop across the border when you are there.

Or as you have found out, you can buy the whole trip from several agents. Yes, when you buy this from DB or SBB, you are basically buying this from a travel agent. Most railways can operate as travel agents for each other. and both DB and SBB will for an Italy - France trip just procure a ticket from Trenitalia for the Italian portion, and from SNCF for the French portion.

Regarding Regensburg to Como: Yes, for two persons in 1st class that could be pricey. And irrespective of where you book this you will always be on the same trains. But here you are running in to a different issue: For complicated long trips crossing multiple borders the booking system often can only produce standard, full price, fares. So you miss all the advance purchase discounts.

But Como is just across the border. So here is what you do: Book till the last station in Switzerland, in this case Chaisso.
Suddenly you will see that you can get cheap Europa Special tickets. For exampel, for travel in September I see prices under 100,- euro pp, for 1st class travel.

Once you have booked that take a note of the train you will arrive in Chiasso on. In most cases that will be a train that continues to Milano. Then just buy Chiasso - Milano for that same train on www.trenitalia.com.

Wengen,

That is fascinating! And, incredibly useful. Funny, as well - especially simply reserving from Chiasso to Como - and staying on same train! If I do this it looks HALF PRICE for the trip!

So, would you reserve through DB or SBB for Regensburg to Chiasso? DB, SBB, or Trenitalia from Chiasso to Como?

Looks like I can reserve specific seats on the München to Zürich leg on DB, but not on SBB (tried on both website and app ... perhaps have to purchase the ticket first). DB goes straightaway to seat choices when selected. Only an issue in that we like to read and work on pads with a table between us ...

Many thanks for your insights!

You could book it on www.sbb.ch, without a seat reservation, and then book the reservation separately on DB.
The only issue you may encounter is when you book the EC Zurich - Chiasso separately from Chiasso - Como is that you may not have the same seats. But that is a minor issue. I would suggest you just stay in your seats, and if someone were to board in Chiasso and claim them just move to the vestibule, as it is only a few minutes.
If you cross the border on the RE 80 however you will not have reserved seats, but that is not an issue.

The vagaries of international ticketting are interesting. Especially if you cross an IRT/NRT border...

Any reason not to just book on Deutschebahn, given the ease of reserving seats ... price looks same??

Scenario ... book from Regensburg to Chiasso on DB first class ... seat reservations only available on the Münich-Zürich leg ... so, cannot reserve specific seats in first class Zürich to Chiasso, right? How does DB assign the seats? Are they still in a 1st car? Are the 1st and 2nd cars different?

Continuing - would be seated in DB chosen seats for the Zürich to Chiasso in a 1st car ... rolling into Chiasso, then wait to see if anyone tries to sit in the same seats? This would seem unlikely since it is only 6 minutes to Como - and, as you not could just move into the area near luggage and wait for six minutes?

Thanks!

Are the 1st and 2nd cars different?

2nd class is 4 seats per row with 2 on each side of the aisle. 1st class is 3 seats per row with 2 on one side of the aisle and 1 on the other side. Also the seat pitch is somewhat bigger.

But, no seat reservations, so board and sit where you want - still more room, though?

Reservations are not compulsory in Germany or Switzerland, except for the ECE train from Munich to Zurich where they are in summer.

You can certainly use DB to book this. In fact, I would, as I generally try to live by the "book with the railway on which you start".

Anyway: You will notice that you get offered two solutions. Both start with a regional to Munich, then the ECE to Zurich. Then from Zurich it is either an EC (which goes to Milano) or an IC, where you change to a regional (also going to Milano) in Lugano. In both cases reservations are not mandatory in Switzerland. On the EC they are mandatory for cross border trips, and trips within Italy.

If you take the IC + RE route in Switzerland you do not need to worry about reservations. Note that if you do book the IC-RE route, and you miss your connection in Zurich because the ECE is late then you can take the EC to Chiasso, as in Switzerland a train is just a train, regardless of the acronym it carries.
In Italy it is different, there tickets for long distance trains (like EC) are train specific, so you cannot just take your EC ticket and take an RE or S. As long as you are in Switzerland you play by Swiss Rules, when you cross the border in Italy the rules change...

And this is why you see these complications in ticketing.

Central Europe has a very different philosophy where it comes to train ticketing then Italy has. So when you purchase a ticket from somewhere in Germany to somewhere in Switzerland you get one through ticket, and you can get very good deals. And this all the way to Chiasso.

However to moment you cross in to Italy it becomes complicated. Because in Italy reservations are included in the ticket the railways have decided that for trips on the EC trains between Switzerland and Italy they have decided that for any cross border trip the Italian railways issue the ticket. So when you book eg. Zurich - Milano on SBB you actually get a Trenitalia ticket, the SBB procured from Trenitalia on your behalf.

So when you book Regensburg - Como on SBB on DB they sell you a Super Sparpreis Europe for Regensburg - Zurich (if available) and get the Zurich - Como ticket from Trenitalia, at whatever price is available there.

But book Regensburg - Chiasso and you get a Super Sparpreis Europe all the way to Chiasso.

So one thing you could do is book Regensburg to Chiasso, taking the fast option which has you cross in to Italy on the local RE80. Buy a separate ticket Chiasso - Como. That is only 2 Euro.
If your train from Munich is on time in Zurich you just take the IC, and the the RE in Lugano. However if your train is delayed you may take the next train south, which is an EC. And in that case you can just stay on the train till Chiasso. Then get off in Chaisso and take the next local across the border. (They run 4 to 5 times an hour...).

Or if you have mobile data you can also load the Trenitalia app, and buy the Chiasso - Como ticket only once you know you'll be on an EC or a local...

Wow - great info, WengenK! Super helpful!!

Regensburg-Como ...
While 30 min longer, the mix of RE2-EC 196-EC 117) to Chiasso, then with separate ticket (staying on the same EC117) is a bit more convenient than changing trains in Lugano - probably worth the €20 extra for the two of us to not need to change trains. Looks like EC 117 stops in Lugano for 2 minutes to pickup/discharge passengers. The alternative route/mix shows IC 873 stopping in Lugano - where we would need to change trains to the RE to get the €1.50 price from Chiasso to Como.

Seats - since no reserved seats on the EC 117 between München and Chiasso, there should not be anyone to displace us if simply stay in our seats on the EC 117 (with tickets from Chiasso to Como). Net: costs about €20 for two of us to avoid changing trains in either Lugano or Chiasso?

Normally I would not beat this up as much, but these are very good lessons to learn about timetables, country train systems and pricing processes! Very interesting!! Hopefully other will see this discussion and learn, as well!

Thank you WengenK!