Train Travel - I better keep studying!

When buying a multiple-country Eurail pass, the countries must share a common border. Holland, Germany, France and Italy will make it but the Czech Republic would not since it does not share a border with any of the other four. On your Venice/Munich leg, you will most likely go through Austria which shouldn't count as you are passing through. Also, there is a night train leaving at 22:51 for Munich with no train changes. It arrives at 6:39am. It's only a 8.0hr run so you won't get too much sleep.

I suggest that you investigate point-to-point tickets in Italy. Your journeys there are not expensive. Also, Amsterdam to Paris should not require you to get a pass for France.

From everything I see and hear, travel within Italy ( Rome-Florence-Venice) does not justify a Eurail pass. If you book way ahead, you can do better with SparNight prices for that Venice-Munich leg. The Eurail pass won't cover Munich-Prague. So you may be left with the Amsterdam-Paris leg, but Thalys is almost the only way, and they charge a huge amount for a limited number of passhold fares.

I don't think a railpass will work, but there is no substitute for doing the legwork yourself. Add up the cost of railpasses. You need at least Italy, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, and France. That's too many countries for a Select Pass, so you need global passes. Add in Thalys surcharge, the cost of the night train supplement to Munich, and any surcharges if you use Italien Eurostar in Italy. Compare that to point-point tickets in Italy (use the 20% savings of Amica fares), a SparNight fare to Munich, and the best Thalys fare to Paris.

Kim,

There are many on this helpline who advocate buying point to point tickets well in advance and saving some money. This is not my strategy however. We will be taking our second trip with railpasses this spring. I too went through this dilemma, and I am aware that I probably spent a little more than if I had invested the time into buying point to point.

My feeling is that buying point to point in advance is mildly time consuming, and takes away any spontinaity. I buy the rail pass and then get Euraide to make the resrvations. My time is fairly valuable and this works quite well for me, although I understand that some of these guys know this system in and out and it's not a big deal for them to buy their own tickets.

There are reasonable night trains from both Venice to Munich and Prague to Amsterdam (unless you already bought flight). Buying the supplement for a night train is fairly reasonable with a rail pass. Not any more than a hotel,....

cont...

on CNL (which both of your night trains would be) the price of a deluxe room is the same as the price for a regular room. With a rail pass the rooms are 120 euro wether there are 1, 2 or 3 people sharing the room. The deluxe rooms have ensuite toilet and shower.

So,,, my opinion is that if you are taking at least 1 night train a rail pass is probably worth it.

It looks to me like you would at least need a 5 country pass covering Italy, Austria, Germany, Benelux (Netherlands and Belguim are considered 1 country) and France. You would have to pay a supplement for the portions in the Czech Republic, and honestly I'm not sure how that would work with the night train. It is easy to book a CNL night train by phone. Send me a private email if you would like additional info.

Sounds like a great trip no matter which way you go!

I usually buy a railpass because I like to have much of my trip pre-paid. Sometimes it doesn't save money to use a railpass, but who could figure it all out what with discounts for early purchase, etc. The choice for me is whether to fly from city to city for long distances or to take the train. This year I am flying. Train trips exceeding 4-5 hours are very tiring for me. I've taken day train trips from the Cinque Terre to Paris several times, and from Paris to Venice twice. Next time I will either break the trips up into two parts or fly.

This is a case where a little analysis will show that a railpass is a bad deal.

The lowest price 5 country select saver pass available is the 5 day pass for $492. From Rome to Florence and Florence to Venice on EuroStar requires a supplement of $26 per train ($52 total) according to Rick Steves. From Venice to Munich on the night train requires a supplement of €60 ($90) per person. The railpass will get you from the Munich to the Czech border. From there, there is an Anschluss ticket for about €20 to Praque, but I won't count it because you will have to get it regardless. According to RailEurope the supplement on Thalys from Amsterdam to Paris is $21 in 2nd class. Adding all the supplement costs to the railpass and including $25 for each person's share of the Euraide fee comes to $680.

Amica fares (20% off, purchase the day before) for the two Italian legs total about €80. Double compartment Smart fare to Munich is €89. A Bayern-Ticket to the Czech border is €6,75 per person for 4.

So those four legs total €175 (about $263). I'm sure there are less expensive ways to get Thalys tickets, but RailEurope sells the Thalys fare from Amsterdam to Paris for $167 (€111). Total €284 (or $426), a savings of over $250 vs a railpass.

About the only leg of the this trip where you might save money is on the Thalys leg from Amsterdam to Paris. I don't know because I am not familiar with ordering from Thalys. The rest of the legs are a real bust for the railpass.

Because the least expensive five country saver is $492, the daily cost is over €65. For the two Italian legs, the ES* supplement cost is almost as much as the 1st cl fares themselves, but you might as well do it that way because you had to buy 5 days of the pass anyway. For Germany you can split the Bayern-Ticket four ways. €6,75 each vs €65 for the pass. Even for the night train to Munich, an Europa-Spezial fare from DB is only €129 pP; a day of the pass plus the supplement is €125.

How far in advance can you buy point to point tickets? And what is the Amica ticket I keep seeing it mentioned.

As for supplements and such... Last year a friend and I did a similar route kind of in reverse. We had a second class saver select pass. Munich to Venice night train. Venice to Florence. Florence to Rome. Rome to Milan night train. Milan to Paris. Paris to Frankfurt night train.

Altogether with three night trains and mostly high speed trains we spent less than 50 Euros each on top of the railpass.

Kent, not only that, but I think Eurail starts out with a higher price in anticipation that the dollar will go lower.

In 1988 I bought a 16 consecutive day German Rail pass for $160. I felt that was a good deal.

Therefore, when I went back for my next non-company-paid trip in 2000, I just bought a railpass, thinking it would be another good deal. In retrospect, considering the trains I rode, I just about broke even v-v point-point tickets, but I realized later that I could have used point-point on different trains and saved some money.

Now, before every trip (five since), I sit down and do a detailed comparison between a railpass, with its supplements, and point-point (both full fare and Länder-Tickets). Railpasses never come close to paying off.

Colleen,

The Amica fare is a discounted fare (20% off) offered on some domestic routes on certain Italian trains. If any of the allotted seats are still available, you can get an Amica fare up to midnight of the day before departure.

How far in advance you can book online varies a bit. For domestic routes in Italy, it's 60 days on the Trenitalia site (90 days for direct international routes). On the German and French sites it's 90 days for any routes they sell. (Exception: longer for iDTGV trains in France but not for regular TGV trains.) Each country's national rail site has its own rules.