Train tickets vs Rental car - Europe 2016

You still have not responded to my question of total number of travelers, where they are coming from. That will effect you getting good answers.

I'm sorry.
I did not see your question on that! :)

4 people
Thank you Sam!

So are there 2 in Herborn and 2 arriving at Munich airport on 10/29?

The basic problem with that wish list is the relative remoteness of Füssen for both car and train transportation.

To start the trip you have to get to a major autobahn or a train main line, and then the same problem reoccurs on the way back.

Have you researched and planned how long the car or train trips from Füssen to Vienna and Hallstatt, Venice, even Lake Como or your mountain hut will take?

How long are you and your 3 traveling companions happy to sit still on the long trips? Are these day trips or do you intend to double pay for hotels or other room sources?

I see where you say you all are saying you

don't mind the travel and the time it takes to see what we want to see

but is what you want to see the inside of a car or the inside of a train window?

I'm happy to come back with more answers after I'm sure that you all think this is the best plan for your very short week.

Even if basing in Munich, with fewer train connections, it's not possible to visit Vienna (4 hrs by direct train), Venice (7 hrs by direct train), etc. on same-day roundtrips. Driving could be faster than train for mountain locations that otherwise require connections, maybe as fast as 2 hours driving to Appenzell, or 5 hours to Varenna on Lake Como. Therefore, I would plan to rent a car but to do more research to keep the destinations within reach. See www.viamichelin.com for driving times that may be a bit more conservative than Google Maps. How to Look Up Train Schedules and Routes Online gives you the DB train schedule link and tips for using it.

P.S. I see that this is a continuation of the topic at https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/germany/the-best-way-from-herborn-munich-fussen-munich.

margiem, it would be nice to have your home city in your profile. It helps me when I know a writer may have some romance with the American clean windshield and a full tank, for example .... . As others have noted, your plan is not feasible.

I share your desire to not change hotels every day or two days. But the distances involved in your interests make daytrips impossible. One idea is to chose a logical, linear journey, and stay two days in each place, then three or four in the last big city with a plane home. We once did a vacation of Innsbruck-Salzburg-Munich-Vienna. (And the tiny Austria Air jet from Vienna to Innsbruck was a memorable mountain-ride... ) But there are alternates available, like Linz, on that route.

Alternatively, you could choose a major city that has commuter transit to places you might want to visit. Some likely possibilities are Munich or Zurich. Because of the region you have chosen (and not given any reasons for it, to help us make suggestions ... ) you may need to investigate seasonal closings (i.e. failure to reopen for the ski season yet ... ) and even tire-chain rules. I've only been there in the summer. You could also base in Vienna, Milan, Prague, Liepzig, or Dresden. (We found Weimar a wonderful city and base for car excursions in the "old" East.)

Reading between the lines, I get the idea you have some desire to return each night to a pastoral landscape. Since you mentioned your past experience with Imperialist private travel (don't take it personally, I use that term all the time, even on myself) you could stay near Cesky Krumlov, where there are many car services specializing in Prague, Vienna, and similar ONE-WAY transfers. Even the former backpacker Rick Steves reports on these in his Czech Republic writings. And we used one, because C Krumlov is such a brutal one-day from Prague.

Herborn to Fussen looks like it will be 7 to 8 hours by train (3 or more connections?). It's about 300 miles, and viamichelin.com estimates about 5 hours' driving time.

Füssen is not the sort of place that makes a good hub for wide-ranging day trips; it's a small town, somewhat isolated, and in the mountains, all of which characteristics limit how far you can get in a reasonable amount of time by public transportation. I suspect that a car will prove nearly essential.

If you are wedded to using Füssen as a base, I think you're going to have to get a map and figure out what area is possible, then look within it. The Rome2Rio.com website will allow you to try out origin/destination pairs and give a rough estimate of travel time by train, bus and car. I see, for example, that Garmisch Partenkirchen is about an hour from Füssen by car but 2 hours by train. Both modes of transport route you through Austria, though nowhere near Hallstatt (3.5 hours by car) or Vienna (5.5 hours by car).

Other posters have mentioned in earlier threads that there are some lovely lakes outside Munich, so that area might work. To the west you have Lindau and Lake Constance (Bodensee), reachable in about 90 minutes by car, as is Innsbruck.

It appears that you could drive to Ortisei in the Dolomites in less than 3 hours, if you are willing to settle for a short visit there, but that's not what I'd do if I were staying in Füssen. Venice is 5 hours away by car.

Edited to add: Laura's suggestion of Appenzell is a good one.

I think the summary is: not possible to visit all those places as day trips from any one location, either by car or train.

I'll add that if you have that much luggage, and four people, you would need a rather large expensive vehicle.

Sam-
2 arriving to Fussen from Herborn in Hesse
2 arriving to Fussen from MUC international
ALL on same day - Sat. Oct 29- but later times.
Two (as of now based your good advice in the other posting) will get the Brayern ticket and head to Fussen from MUC
My husband and I are still deciding between car or train. We don't mind the hour we arrive, just needs to be convenient for two people that have never driven in Germany in daylight or dark. I know that most likely a train would get us there later, but the convenience of not having to navigate the road turn by turn and etc would be a bit less stressful on such a busy day for us. I'm assuming at the train station in Herborn someone could help us with tickets. Or. We just converse with a kiosk. :)
Thank you much

Nigel
Yes, I have researched by Google maps the time by car. As stated before, we are not intimidated by a 5hour drive there/back would require us getting up extremely early to be somewhere to spend a few hours even with the shorter days. We understand that this is not the ideal trip where we can spend more can spend more than a few hours in one place. However, we are accustomed to this kind of travel when we are short on time, and consider the sacrifice small when we can see a few things vs a whole lot of things.
We do not mind if it's inside a car or train at this point. We know that this will be a point A to point B kind of trip due to the time.
We certainly can rent a car for a couple days and train the rest or vice versa.
Thank you!

Tim
We are from Ohio. Although we are Americans, we are willing to do what we need to do, we are not picky and want to experience all we can. As for Fussen as the home base, this place was rented for us sometime back, and there is no cancelling. We are not open to spending a stretch of time away over night, but are completely open to spending one night away somewhere to see a place or two further away.
Thank you

Laura
Yes! Your times you mentioned for driving are exactly what I have found as well. Those times do not intimidate us. I have made numerous round trips with more time involved...
Thank you!!

A. Craven
Yes, Appenzell is our ONLY stop that we want in Switzerland. As well as Berrgasthaus Aescher which is close and may be included in a tour there.
Thank you!

Stan
I completely understand that these times are long by car and by train. But when you say "not possible in a day" I don't understand exactly what you mean. I have driven from Reno NV to Ukiah CA in a day and back and seen many beautiful things. From San Fran up to the Redwoods in a day and back. Granted! I am not from this area we are visiting that week (as I am with travels in the US) and have never been, so I am sure I might be missing something here. But why is it not possible to get up very early in the morning and drive 3-5 hours away, and spend at least 3-5 hours there, and drive back, although it be very late return? Again, I am not expecting to cover all my interests in, say Salzburg, in a day. We are only interested in hitting the high spots and driving back. Or by train. I completely understand driving down to the Dolomites...that's the place where we would consider staying the night and coming back next evening to home base.
Thank you!

*Thank you to everyone, your advice and knowledge is proving to be extremely helpful, forgive my "cluelessness"! *

I see, for example, that Garmisch Partenkirchen is about an hour from
Füssen by car but 2 hours by train. Both modes of transport route you
through Austria

Actually, there are regular bus connections from Garmisch-Partenkirchen to Füssen (stops at Hohenschwangau a few minutes before Füssen). These trips take about 2 hours or a little more and go through Oberammergau, not Austria.

One could stay in the cute little German town of Pfronten. It's on the German Rail line (Ausserfernbahn) that goes through the Austrian Tirol from Kempten to Garmisch-Partenkirchen (about 1½ hr). The Bayern-Ticket is valid for travel on the Ausserfernbahn. Füssen is 20-30 minutes away from Pfronten by bus; use of the bus is covered by the transit pass you get when you stay in Pfronten (or by the Bayern-Ticket).

Just be sure you are working with good time estimates when you plan your long days. The online estimates normally don't allow for stops (gas, toilet, enjoying the view), traffic, or bad weather. Days are rather short in early November, so it appears that some of your driving will be in the dark. I suspect that you might run into fog on occasion, which can be really frightening in the mountains. I have no idea how tricky the roads are in the Füssen area.

I'm a huge fan of public transportation. The reason I keep talking about driving is that for most of the destinations I tried on the Rome2Rio.com website, the driving time was about half the time required for bus or train. I don't know, however, that the website is always finding the fastest connection. Then again, bus schedules in some areas are cut back during slow seasons, so some of the options provided right now might evaporate before November. A good (current) guidebook that covers the Füssen area might have useful information about transportation options.

Innsbruck and Munich are two destinations you could easily reach without a car.

margiem I apologize if my reply was a bit flippant. I guess if you're working with a 24-hr day, driving is physically possible. Qualitatively, however, I gave up trying to count up the percentage of your prime vacation time that would be on the highway looking at truck stops and lorry bumpers. Not sure where you're from, but driving distances and time in Europe are deceiving. I have a memory of driving from Munich to Salzburg, and spending almost as much time in Salzburg traffic, looking for a parking space, and walking to and from the old city, as the drive from Munich. Venice and Vienna just seem too far for me.

Stan,
I didn't take it as flippant at all.
As stated, I am new to this driving and getting around Europe thing and you are not.
Your advice is helpful.
I do think Venice and Vienna is too far for day travel as well. Even if we were talking about a literal 24 hour day...
I think that may be the one night we relocate to an area closer to either Venice or Vienna.
Most likely it will be Venice.
Thank you!

I suspect that you might run into fog on occasion, which can be really frightening in the mountains.

Per my reply on the other thread, you WILL run into fog in late October/early November. Consider this if you insist on driving from Füssen (where you're practically in the mountains anyway) all the way to Switzerland or the Dolomites.

Let me illustrate something... you've no doubt seen glorious technicolor photos of all the destinations you plan to visit. Those pictures were almost invariably taken during the height of summer under ideal lighting conditions. You will not experience this during your visit. The atmosphere at this time of year is usually very damp, and the sites you plan on driving many, MANY hours to behold could be hidden behind a veil of grey.

Just so you understand my perspective... I have rented cars and driven in Europe on several dozen trips to Europe... I love road trips... and while I love the train, it just does not always fit with my travel plans.

I tend to want to see small towns and villages that are off the beaten path. I want to stop for a roadside picnic. I stop to take photographs frequently (I am a photographer)... so given that ,I can tell you that I do not find it difficult to drive in Germany. Roads are well marked and a gps can help.

With lots of luggage it seems renting a car would be a good idea. The last thing I would want to do is deal with getting a ton of stuff on and off the train.
Train travel vs. car travel are two totally different trips, and despite the naysayers, you can make your drive every bit as enjoyable (more so for me) as a train trip. Scenery from a train is not always spectacular either. But I have seen some of the most amazing little places that I would not have seen taking a train from point A to point B. It is definitely 'the journey' for me. Some people just don't like to drive in Europe. I love road trips in the US, and Europe is no different for me... it's just the amazing sites are a little closer together in Europe than in the middle of our country:)

Edit: Just saw Tom's post on the fog... did run into some a few times.... mostly on my end of November trips, but it can be an issue. Sometimes I will just stop for a meal and wait for it to pass. Hit snow once and just decided to stop early for a hotel. Light fog can be great for photography:)

So now that we have the full perspective, here are my thoughts.

You're locked in on your rental in Fuessen. A car would be a good thing to have. Can one of you break free Friday afternoon and take the train to Giessen where there is a Europecar agency open until 8 pm? Or Saturday morning as it is open until noon. Giessen is only 24 minutes away on the hourly Hessische Landesbahn train. The Europecar is about 1/2 mile from the station, so you could get a taxi there. My information through AutoEurope. They have Skoda Superb Wagons that would handle 4 people easily.

As others have noted, day trips to distant destinations are out of the question. So Vienna and Venice are out, unless you are prepared to spent at least 2 nights away from "home". Follow the weather reports and keep mountain sightseeing trips to good weather days.

Get an Austrian vignette first opportunity. It is only 8 EUR for a 10-day sticker. Switzerland also needs a vignette to drive on superhighways, but if you can avoid using these on a day trip to Appenzell region, you won't need it. so plan your route carefully.

Leave the car at "home" for inclement weather days and use the train to visit Augsburg and Munich. Here is the lowdown on the Bayern Ticket (Bavaria ticket in English). It is good on regional trains and buses including the Munich transit system. https://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany-regional/bavariaticket.shtml

I came back to the thread to warn about the need for highway stickers, but I see Sam has taken care of that. I don't know whether you'll be able to avoid the Swiss superhighways when arriving from another country; you may find that the sticker-free back roads don't cross the border.

Everyone who might possibly drive the rental car needs to have an international driving permit. They are easily obtained from the AAA for $15 or $20. If you don't have two extra passport photos, AAA will take the pictures for you (and charge a bit extra).

I'm not sure how it works in Europe, but in the US, if there is to be more than one authorized driver, I believe they must all show up to rent the car (and maybe sign the rental agreement). So check on that ahead of time if you're inclined to send one person to pick up the car on Friday or Saturday and plan to have multiple drivers.

BTW, this hasn't been mentioned. The region around Herborn is actually very interesting, although almost completely ignored by most English-language guidebooks. Some of the towns worth visiting include Dillenberg (the home of Dutch national hero, William the Silent), the university town of Marburg, Wetzlar, and Braunfels, which has a very large castle. A little further afield, Fritzlar is very similar to the more well-known Rothenburg ob der Tauber, but it sees a tiny fraction of the tourists.

One tip on driving- obey the posted speed limit. Unlike in the US, where traffic police have the discretion to pull over only the fastest offenders, speeds are mostly monitored in Europe by radar cameras, which will nab everyone going over the limit. Also, realize that there are default speed limits within town borders. You may not see a sign that explicity shows the change, but there may be a camera.

You're locked in on your rental in Fuessen. .... Can one of you break free Friday afternoon and take the
train to Giessen where there is a Europecar agency ... Giessen is only 24 minutes away

He's talking about 24 minutes from Herborn to Giessen, not from Füssen. It's not picking up the car in Füssen. (Nothing wrong with doing it that way. I just wanted to make it clear, since he started out talking about "your rental in Füssen". He's suggesting an alternative.)