train/ rail passes

Not having a seat is the least of your problems. This is where a little advance research would have saved you some bucks. All train in Italy, except Regional trains, require a seat reservation PER LEG of the trip ranging from 3 to 10 E. DO NOT under any circumstances get on without a seat reservations (except Regionals). The fine is immediate and severe - 50 to 100 E.- plus being ejected from the train at the next stop. Sorry for the bad news.

Seat reservations are required on all Freccia high-speed trains and on IC trains. You will pay €10 for each leg on a high-speed train and €3 for each leg on an IC train. Trenitalia doesn't limit the number of seat reservations it allocates to passholders so you can buy the reservations at train stations as you go for any train that requires them. There is open seating on Regionale trains and no seat reservations are possible. Circumvesuviana commuter trains run from Naples to Sorrento. This is a private line and your passes will not be good on those trains. However, tickets are less than €5.

Patti, As the others have mentioned, a Railpass is usually not the most cost effective option for travel in Italy. If the Pass is not used, you may be able to return it? As mentioned, a few things to consider: > The Railpass does NOT cover reservations which are compulsory on premium trains. The reservations are specific to a particular train and departure time, so are not interchangeable. If you're caught without a valid reservation, you may be fined €50 PP on the spot, plus the cost of the reservation. If not paid at the time, it doubles and increases from there. The same is true for those travelling on Regionale trains (which don't require reservations) who fail to validate their tickets. > The Railpass is NOT accepted on the Circumvesuviana, which runs from Napoli to Sorrento. You'll have to buy P-P tickets (they're cheap). > You can achieve significant savings by pre-purchase of tickets on the premium trains (Freccia) using the Trenitalia website. The Super Economy tickets are good value, but they usually sell out quickly. One caveat however - some users have reported considerable problems in navigating the website. Pre=registering seems to help, but I've never used that method. NOTE that using this method will "lock you into" a specific train and departure time. > The website for the new Italo trains is reportedly more "user friendly", but I don't believe they accept Railpasses either. They use different stations in some cases, so you'd have to consider that also. One question - are you staying in the town of Como, or one of the other towns on the lake? Varenna is a big favourite with most here. Which of the five towns in the Cinque Terre are you planning to stay in? Good luck with your planning!

thanks for the info! Yes we can get out of the railpasses but the website for Trentalia sort of worries me. We have the reservations for the trains booked thru a travel agent but it seems pricey to us. Am I right when you say we could buy point to point tickets for each leg of journey on Trentalia website and do away with railpass? We are staying in Bellagio in Como area. Any suggestions for a good value place to stay in Cinque Terre? Have not booked a place as yet. Thanks for all the good information.

Yes, you can buy p2p tickets on the Trenitalia site - and doing so can get you discount fares. Rome-Naples: Book up to 120 days in advance to get a Super Economy fare as low as €9.00 on high-speed trains. Naples-Florence: Book up to 120 days in advance to get a Super Economy fare as low as €29.00 on high-speed trains. Florence-Cinque Terre: If you limit yourselves to Regionale trains, the fare can be as low as €12.80. There is open seating, no reservations are possible, and there are no discount fares. Buy your tickets at the station. Cinque Terre-Como S. Giovanni: If you book up to 120 days in advance, you can get a Super Economy fare as low as €9.00 for any leg on InterCity trains. Some legs will be on Regionale trains. Your lowest total fare should be around €20.00. Como S. Giovanni-Venice: The fare on a Regionale train from Como to Milan is €4.55. If you book up to 120 days in advance, you can get a Super Economy fare as low as €9.00 for Milan-Venice. For high-speed trains and IC trains, seat reservations come with the ticket and are included in the fare. While you aren't required to register on the Trenitalia site, booking often goes more smoothly if you do.

thanks for all info so far! I have read on a few postings the recommendation that you not buy rail tickets(point to point) until you are in Italy and buy at train station a day or two ahead in each city. Is this a good idea for June travel? Are the trains very crowded in the "tourist cities"? Finding this transportation planning the most frustrating!

Hi Patti. In answer to your last question, it is most convenient to wait and buy tix in Italy. Trains rarely sell out, and on high volume routes, they run many times per day. However, as other posters said, you can get big discounts on some trains by buying in advance. Go to trenitalia.com and compare for yourself; only you can decide whether the discounts are worth buying in advance. Use a date slightly less than 90 days in advance to get the idea. The discount fares are what you would pay if you buy in advance; the 'base' fare is what you will pay if you wait and buy when there. For instance, Roma to Florence (Firenze) on Jan 23 at 10:05am is 9 euro in advance, 43 Euro if you buy when there. You may want to buy some in advance, for others, wait until there. Enjoy your trip!

Patti, Thanks for the additional information. As you're staying in Bellagio, one of the easiest methods to get there is to travel by train from Milano Centrale to Varenna, and then take the Ferry from there to Bellagio (about 20 minutes). That's a better method than travelling via Como (IMO). That route may involve a walk down the hill to the Ferry dock, but it's easy (it's all downhill). The dock is in front of Albergo Olivedo (large yellow building, you can't miss it). There may or may not be a Taxi waiting at the station. If you were travelling to Bellagio via Como, the best route is via Como Nord Lago station, which you can reach via the TreNord Railway. From there you'll need to walk to the boat dock and then use either the Ferry or Aliscafo (Hydrofoil). For a "good value place to stay in the Cinque Terre", I'd suggest having a look at the Italy 2013 Guidebook (available now). There are good accommodations listed in each of the five towns. My personal favourite is Monterosso (the most northerly of the towns). It's difficult to offer more specific suggestions without having some idea of your pricing or "comfort level" criteria. Cheers!

Discount fare tickets are for a specific departure date and time. They are non-exchangeable and non-refundable. If you can commit well in advance, you can save a good deal of money. If you need flexibility and don't mind paying more for it, wait until you are in Italy to buy your tickets. Buy Regionale train tickets in Italy. There are no discount fares on those trains.

Earlier you mentioned getting first class tickets. Most of the responses have been for second class tickets especially the references to deep discounts for advance purchases. . Some people just like to travel in first class and are willing to pay the premium. And some just like the "status" of first class. In our opinion first class is not worth the difference. But you have to decide what is important to your group. For twenty years we have always traveled second class except for the rare occasion when second class is sold out or a deal is offer when first class might be cheaper. The last time we encountered sold out second was the day after Christmas. First class always has lots of seats because it is mostly American tourist and local business types. So be sure to compare apples to apples.