Train pass confusion and overloaded with fustration

I never buy Eurailpasses, they never work out economically for me. Go to each country's train website and price your point-to-point tickets to compare to the cost of the pass - don't forget to add compulsory reservation fees where necessary to the cost of the pass.

Some of your destinations are far apart, I would also check airfares.

You aren't doing anywhere near enough travel in concentrated areas to make a pass worthwhile. Also some of your point to points would be long journeys that you might consider flying instead for economies of time and possibly money too.

As said above, you do not need a rail pass. It will not benefit you. It is very easy to buy point to point tickets.

The main part of Rick's website ( i.e. This website ) is loaded with free train advice, including a discussion of your particular question. Start here:

http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation

In England you can save a lot by buying train tickets in advance.

Thank you everyone for sharing your travel tips! I originally thought point to point was the best way to go. I was trying to finalize plans last night and sitting with all my research it seemed so overwhelming with all the information. I'm so afraid of making a major mistake...but I guess that's kind of the point of traveling right?

Best

Ruby

How are you getting to Liverpool?

Will you have a car in England, and would you consider visiting Stonehenge from london by tour bus? Or train to Salisbury then tour bus?

There is no such thing as a "Europass". There is a "Eurailpass" discussed at quite long lengths here.

For a few specifics related to your proposed trip,

You list
Liverpool
Stonehenge
London
Paris
Rome
Florence
Cinque Terre
Barcelona
Granada
Madrid

which I count as 10 cities or areas. So your trip will be at least 30 nights plus long distance transportation, is that right? That's pretty long for a first trip.

What time of year is this trip?

Are returning home from Madrid? Flying direct, or via another city?

Liverpool to Stonehenge
Train to London and tour bus or car or train to Salisbury and taxi or tour bus or car.

Stonehenge to London
Retrace to London or Salisbury. If Salisbury, train to London, buy in advance.

London to Paris
Eurostar - buy far in advance, prices never go down.

Paris to Rome
Fly. Train is very long and flying is almost certainly much cheaper.

Rome to Florence
High speed train. One of your shortest journeys. Tickets well in advance can be very cheap, but they go quickly. Prices never go down, but as cheaper tickets sell out they most definitely go up.

Florence to Cinque Terre
Slow train.

All this time and no Venice? Oh my.

Cinque Terre to Barcelona
My goodness, that's a tough one. Train definitely won't work unless you want to take up residence on all the trains involved. Fly. Either Pisa or Genova. Neither one is trivial. The Cinque Terre is a bit remote.

Barcelona to Granada to Madrid.
I have no idea about Spain, but I do know that distances are long and that long distance buses, trains and planes are plentiful in Spain.

That's some first trip. I really, really, really hope you have enough nights on this trip to do it justice and you not to die trying....

ruby,

For your trips in Spain, you might consider travelling Barcelona > Madrid > Granada. Use the AVE high speed train which travels at about 300 kmH, as the trip from Barcelona to Madrid is a short 2.5 hours (it's a very pleasant trip, with some great scenery). The trip from Madrid to Granada is longer at about 5-6 hours with one or two changes (depending on which train you choose).

For ALL of your trips, you'll need to know the correct station names in the local language, as most cities have more than one station. In Italy you'll have to be especially aware of the usual "caveats" when using trains and other public transportation, as they can be expensive. If you need more information, post another note.

Bottom line advice: We prefer to fly from Paris to Rome and from Pisa to Barcelona; see www.skyscanner.com. If you fly those routes, then the remaining train tickets will be cheaper than a rail pass.

Correct, a BritRail pass that covers any part of Britain is separate from those for the continent or you can choose separate tickets. Correct, the Eurostar train from London to Paris does not accept rail passes; you must always buy separate tickets. The overnight train from Paris to Milan is also a private operator, not covered by rail passes.

All of your train routes (except Florence to Cinque Terre) offer the option of advance-discount tickets, which mostly go on sale 90 days in advance of your travel date.

For trains within a country, you DO NOT need to buy that country's separate rail pass. A pass can cover 1, 2, 4, or 28 countries on the Continent. A 4-country Selectpass for 6 days of travel in this region costs only $320 (2nd class) if you are under age 26, or costs $485 (1st class) if you are a solo adult age 26+.

What you do often need to buy are seat reservations for specific trains. The daytime train trip from Paris to Rome takes 10-12 hours by day. The Paris-Milan portion of that trip would be important to reserve well ahead (preferably several weeks), since it only runs 2x/day and the number of places is limited for pass holders. Those two facts both point to flying.