Train. or Plane

Most cruises go Amsterdam to Basel. Wondering why you are short cutting it at Strasbourg. No direct flights to Rome from there. It is only 9 hrs by way of Basel. Why don't you stay on until Basel, then you can get a train to Rome with only one change in Milan in 7 1/2 hours.

You can get nonstop flights from Rome to Munich with a number of airlines and flight times.

Munich airport to Passau, you can take a short bus ride to Freising then a direct train to Passau.

Budapest to Prague is by direct EC trains every 2 hours and takes 7 hours.

Prague to Frankfurt is 8 hours with a single train change in Dresden or Regensburg.

This site is useful for finding train schedules:>https://loco2.com
and this site for finding planes:> www.skyscanner.net

A quick check on Skyscanner reveals that Easyjet have cheap flights from Basel/Mulhouse Airport to Rome. It looks like flights from Strasbourg are more expensive. (Be aware that ‘cheap’ airlines will charge for baggage in hold).

If it were me, I would consider visiting Switzerland and Austria - maybe starting with a few days in Lucerne before moving eastward to be ready for the cruise from Passau.

This the best site for European rail travel advice:>https://www.seat61.com

Rome to Passau: Instead of Munich, it may be more convenient to fly into Salzburg and to take the train from there (one easy transfer at Wels).

One rule for purchasing both air flights and major inter-city train tickets is that early purchase will find the cheapest fares. One practical consideration is that European trains are usually more comfortable than cramped airline cabins, but in most situations you will have to lug your bags aboard the train yourself, and storage space is often limited.

Some folks have a fixed standard as to when a train or plane is the mode of transport, I don't. Transportation costs when flying both in cash and time from centrums are often significant factors on both ends of the trip. Also, don't forget potential luggage costs, seat reservation and gotcha fees. I'll fly when it makes sense, but I do prefer trains when supposedly all things are equal. Oh, luggage space on trains has never been a problem.

I ran into problems finding space on the luggage racks of several French trains this summer. My bag wasn't large (no more than 23.5"), but it was a bit heavy, and I couldn't lift it high overhead. With no space on the racks, I had no choice but to leave the bag on the floor in the entry way and sit on one of the fold-down seats nearby. I really wasn't worried about theft; I just needed to be there at every stop to move the bag out of the way of people getting on and off the train.

All of my difficulties occurred during July, when much of the local population is on the move. There's always a bit of risk when you board a train at an intermediate stop.

Thank you everyone for your comments; there are some good pieces of advice among them.

My cruise ends in Strasbourg so there's not much I can do about that. It's with a small, less expensive company using older boats so that may be the reason they don't go to Basel. I could take a train to Basel and fly from there to Rome which would mean a shorter trip if train and plane schedules fit. I too would prefer the train and this route could be a very scenic ride. We're not too concerned about luggage as we've learned to travel light (thanks to Rick Steves) and wash clothes as we go. We'll also be travelling in September when it should be less crowded.

It's the Rome to Passau trip that concerns me more as I haven't found a train trip that's under 12 hours. The suggestions to use Munich or Salzburg as a flight destination from Rome and then a train to Passua are worth pursuing especially if there is train service directly from the airport. I find it confusing that many cities have more than one train station; is there a handy way to find out which one is the main one, usually in the city centre? Is "bahnhof" a clue for German stations? At the end of the second cruise we need to get from Budapest to Prague and the train trip is about 7 hours which is reasonable and the station is 10 minutes from the dock.

The web site suggestions are great. I did not know about loco2.com and seat61.com. loco2.com is better than using the bahn.de site or RailEurope. I have used skyscanner.com but prefer flylc.com as I can easily see who flies between two points without entering a lot of information. So I have more work to do and it will be easier now. Thanks, Gerry

Stopping at Strasbourg only adds one extra train connection and 1 1/2 hours to the journey to Rome. I'd stick with that.

Rome to Munich would be better by air because there are lots of direct flights. Salzburg will require you to change planes somewhere, like Brussels, or Paris, or Duesseldorf, making it a long journey.

Munich airport to Passau Hbf (abbreviation for Hauptbahnhof, Main Station in larger German towns) is pretty easy. There is a regional train every hour from Munich Hbf to Passau. You can use what is known as a Bayern Ticket, that will cost 31 EUR total for the two of you. The easiest way, by explanation is to take the S-Bahn (German commuter train) from the Munich airport to Munich Hbf and change there to the train to Passau. Your Bayern Ticket allows you to ride any regional train, or bus, or tram, or subway in Bavaria for the rest of the day.

Now the train from Munich to Passau stops at Freising on the way to Passau. Freising is only a couple of miles from Munich airport, so you could short-cut the ride all the way into Munich and back by taking the local bus from the airport to Freising station. It is included with the Bayern Ticket. Up to you.

In Budapest, trains to Prague go from Budapest Nyugati station, a large station, but not the largest in the city.

Prague the main station is Praha hl.n. in German its Prag Hbf. The bahn.com site has station names in other common languages, maybe that is throwing you off.

Frankfurt(Main) Hbf is the main station. There is another city on the other side of Germany, Frankfurt(Oder). The "Main", named after the river its on, eliminates any confusion. The airport is Frankfurt(Main) Flughafen.

Oh, and Munich airport is "Munich Airport T"

I find it confusing that many cities have more than one train station; is there a handy way to find out which one is the main one, usually in the city centre? Is "bahnhof" a clue for German stations?

"Bahnhof" is German for station, every station is a "Bahnhof". In Germany and Austria where a town has multiple stations, the main one used by long-distance trains is called "Hauptbahnhof" (main station), abbreviated "Hbf". But not in Switzerland.

Coming from Strasbourg to Basel you will arrive at "Bâle/Basel SNCF" (Bâle is French for Basel), you will then have to walk ~200 metres along the street to "Basel SBB" to catch your train to Milan. The direct undercover connection is currently being re-built.
If you want to get to Basel airport, get off before Basel at "St Louis", which is nearer to the airport, and get a bus or taxi to the airport.

The station in the centre of Milan is "Milano Centrale". In Rome it is "Roma Termini".
It may be confusing for tourists to have multiple stations in a city, but for the locals wanting to get around their own city, it is a great advantage to have a local station.

I would look up trains Strasbourg - Switzerland - Italy on the Swiss Railways site: https://www.sbb.ch/en
And within Italy on the Italian Railways site: http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en

Thank you, Sam and Chris F, for clarifying the train station names. That's a big help.

I'm looking into the option of flying to Munich and taking the local bus to the Freising station using the Bayern ticket which will get us all the way to Passau . If I can get an early enough flight, we can get to Passua in time to board our cruise boat at 4:00PM which gives us another day in Rome. From the "Man in Seat 61" website, I found the suggestion that we take an overnight train from Rome to Munich (or Vienna) departing at 7:04PM and arriving around 8:30AM the next day. Then it's a train trip to Passau and this gives us plenty of time in Passau. We've never taken anovernight train in Europe so I'd appreciate some feed back on this option compared to the fly/train trip. How can I be sure these trains don't require a transfer somewhere at an inconvient time of night?

Gerald, the bahn.com website will indicate if changes are required. It's rare that there will be changes in the middle of the night, because few trains run in the small hours. What you need to be alert to is changes that expect you to stay overnight in a city, eg itineraries that have you arriving at a station by the last train at 0100 or so and then leaving by the first train at 0500.

Gerald, I'm not clear on the exact timing of your trip up to Passau. I would not want to cut it at all close since you have a cruise on the line. I'd want to be up near Passau the day before the cruise departure date. If there was a catastrophic issue with the night train (strike? mechanical failure?), would you be able to recover in time to make the cruise?

I am very risk-averse in situations like that. If you haven't booked your transatlantic flights yet, I'd just add a day for insurance; one of the benefits of being retired.

I took some night trains when I was younger. I didn't sleep well in the couchettes, but I did doze a bit. Lying down on the train was a lot more comfortable than sitting up on a plane. But my most recent night train (Rome to Sicily in 2015) was a horrible experience. I think the tracks down that way are just not smooth enough. The train jerked from side to side constantly. It was miserable. I arrived without having had any sleep, so my first day in Catania was pretty useless. So I'd say "proceed with caution" where the night train is concerned.

That's interesting Phillip; glad you pointed that out. I assume you can't simply stay on the train because it's a new one leaving early in the morning. That type of trip certainly is inconvenient and renders a night train very impractical.

There's no mention of that in the seat61.com website so I assume all the options he presents are through trains. BTW, that web site is an excellent source of information for train travel. He says "A sleeper is the most civilised, comfortable & romantic way to travel, with comfy beds in cosy & carpeted 1, 2 or 3-bed compartments." I'd like to hear what others have to say. The Austrian Railway NightJet service from Rome to Munich or Vienna in a 2 bed sleeping compartment does sound nice (eg complimentary glass of Prosecco upon boarding) and since we've never done this before it could be our choice.

Thanks, acraven, for your input and your risk-adverse point is well taken. I've booked our flights already as we wanted to go business class on points and I've arranged to leave several days before the first cruise from Amsterdam and we have a week before the second one from Passau.

I think night trains are better in central Europe and I'll get lots of input before deciding on the Rome to Passua trip. A flight to Munich in the morning followed by a train to Passua may be cutting it too close as we have to board at 4:00PM. The night train gives us the following morning to get to Passau and we don't have to worry about airport/train station issues. The safest is to take a day train from Rome to Munich and then on to Passau the day before, staying overnight in Passua. I'm planning way ahead of time for these trips around our cruise dates so there's lots of time to get input before making a decision. This forum certainly is helping. Thanks again to you all. Gerry

If you like the idea of an over night train trip from Rome to Munich to Passau looks, then go for it. Just buy the ticket from Rome (Termini) to Passau. You'll actually get off at Salzburg and take connecting trains through Wels from there.

There a lot of yeas and nays about night trains, but if you have not done one, you'll never know for yourself. You don't change until 6:15 in the morning, but there are several stops along the way. Price it out vis-a-vis flights and see what suits you.

I can see why it would be interesting to try out the night train. But there are, indeed, stops to contend with. There's Bologna at 10:45 PM, then three more stops after midnight, scheduled at 3:05 AM, 4 AM and 5:20 AM. And then the 1-hour layover in Salzburg. I guess that station is busy enough that something (a waiting room or a cafe) will be open during your wait. It could otherwise be a rather chilly wait at that time of year.

Regarding night trains, if they are a true night train with sleeping compartments, i did not think there was any reason to worry about stops along the way as long as you didn't have to change trains. Hopefully, you would sleep right through the night, ignoring stops, then awaken in Munich to have breakfast in the compartment before getting off. Isn't that why they are called night trains? I understand there are getting to be fewer of them (I think France has discontinued them) but the Austrian railways (OBB) NightJet service is using refurbished trains it bought from Deutsche Bahn. I'm getting this information from seat61.com which I assume is up to date and reliable. Comments anyone?

UPDATE: I just got this message from loco2.com:

Deutsche Bahn, the German rail operator that supplies our tickets for this route, has recently discontinued all City Night Line (CNL) sleeper trains. However, some of these services have been taken over by the Austrian rail operator, OEBB, and have been re-branded as Nightjet sleeper trains.

Although this change means we can't sell these tickets at the moment, you may be able to buy the tickets you want on OEBB's website.

Hopefully, you would sleep right through the night, ignoring stops, then awaken in Munich to have breakfast in the compartment before getting off.

Ah "hopefully". Again, this is part of night trains. But if you've never taken one, you don't have any first hand experience to rely on. And if you want to end up in Passau, why would you want to go out of your way to Munich, when you can change at Salzburg and get to Passau several hours sooner?

The problem is that the stops are accompanied by braking, then station noise, then acceleration. In some cases cars are added to the train or removed, which typically involves some jerking. (I have no idea whether that will happen on the particular train you are considering.)

I simply don't remember how big an issue the middle-of-the-night stops were for me in the olden days (we're talking at least 30 years ago). If you're not light sleepers, I guess it's possible they will be non-events for you. Certainly the stops on my 2015 train to Sicily were a moot point since I never once managed to fall asleep.

If you decide to take the night train, please report on your experience afterward. I'm curious about how it goes. I know Fred loves night trains, but we've established that he can sleep sitting up, so his experience doesn't apply to me.

f there was a catastrophic issue with the night train (strike? mechanical failure?),

or a simple delay. EN 294 has a notorious bad record for punctuality (that has been discussed elsewhere on the transportation sub-forum). While it is one time often, between 10/15 and 11/9 it was four times delayed over one hour, the biggest delay being 250 minutes on 10/17.

The connection with the earliest arrival into Passau is via Salzburg and Wels. If it goes according to schedule, you have almost an hour to make the connection in Salzburg, and you will arrive in Passau around 9:18 AM (according the current schedule). You will arrive in Salzburg at about 6:15 AM which means you will need to get up rather early to make the connection. Late arrival in Salzburg is not a big issue; there are connections to Passau at least hourly.

Depending on how early in the day you have to be on the cruise ship, you might want to go via Munich. It will take two hours longer, but that two hours gives you two more hours to sleep. You'll arrive in Munich just after 8 AM. You'll have an hour to make the connection to a Regional Express (RE) that goes direct (no more changes) to Passau and arrives around 11:30 AM. Here again, late arrival of the night train is not a big issue; the direct RE to Passau runs hourly.

The suggestions to use Munich or Salzburg as a flight destination from Rome and then a train
to Passua [sic] are worth pursuing especially if there is train service directly from the airport.

The only airport with direct train service is Munich, but going into town by S-Bahn, then connecting to a train to Passau will add time. Both airports have a bus to the closest rail station in about 20 minutes. From MUC you go to Freising Hbf, from which it is 1h50 by direct train to Passau. The one change connection from Salzburg to Passau takes about ½ hour longer.

Flying from Rome, you would have a half hour trip by train from Termini to Fiumicino, then check in, security, time to the gate, preboard, etc, then about an hours flight to Salzburg or Munich. And that time is probably right in the middle of the day, rather than overnight if by train.

Since my last post I have learned a lot about night trains from people on this forum and from the man in Seat 61. I've narrowed my chcoice down to two: 1) night train from Rome to Munich and then on to Passau or 2) morning train from Rome to Venice and night train to Vienna and then on to Passua. I've selected both destinations because of an arrival after 8AM. Either destination has regular local trains that get me to Passau well before our boat leaves at 4PM. I'm aware of the many stops during which cars are deleted or added which could be disruptive. Option 2) is there just because I'd like to see Venice one more time. Another issue is whether or not we can get a deluxe sleeping compartment ( there are only 3 out of 11 per car) since we don't fancy wandering down the isle in the middle of the night to pee.

Of course there still is the option of a day train from Rome with an overnight stay in Passau (just to be safe). And flying can't be ruled out although this does involve more small trips plus the delays involved with flying. Trains are just so much more convenient. The bus to Freising Hbf from MUC airport is helpful as it cuts down on connections. So I have lots of alternatives to consider and it will come down to a matter of ease of travel and convenience versus cost.

I think I've exhausted all the ideas on this topic so I'll close with a thank you to all who offered suggestions. Gerry

We'd like to visit Prague after Budapest

That's a cheap easy flight on Czech Air. About $120. The Budapest airport is fairly easy and about 30 minutes and $30 out of the city center by taxi.

Sounds like you decided where you wanted to go then looked for a way to tie all the points together. I tend to do the opposite. I work regions and select locations based upon ease of transportation. For that if i cant find a 3.5 hour train (or less) I use Google Flights. I can put in Budapest, No Stops, and destination of Europe and see all the possibilities on a map with prices.

morning train from Rome to Venice and night train to Vienna and then on to Passua

That will add a big detour since you will doing the Wels - Vienna leg twice. You might consider getting of at Linz early in the morning (6:05), having a decent breakfast there and using the rest of the day to explore beautiful Passau (don't miss the organ concert in the cathedral at noon, it's on of the world's biggest organs).

Sounds like you decided where you wanted to go then looked for a way to tie all the points together.

James, I've done trips to Europe your way in the past going to new places and areas but this time the holiday started with two river cruises so that gave us 4 different cities to start with. I booked business class flights to Frankfurt on points a few days before the first cruise and after the second. As this may be our last trip to Europe we wanted to return to Rome as well to visit some new cities. An afternoon in Venice would be a nice to do. We like train travel as a relaxed easy way to get around since we are usually not pressed for time. We've never done a night train so that would be another experience. Thanks for the tip on Google Flights - I didn't realize one could do that. I've used flylc.com to see who flies where in Europe.

That will add a big detour since you will doing the Wels - Vienna leg twice. You might consider getting of at Linz early in the morning (6:05)

sal019, I don't favour getting up at 06:05 even for a good breakfast plus the Wels - Vienna portion will be in the dark so I don't mind retracing that route. Our objective is to get to Passau in the late morning so we will have time to explore the city before boarding our boat at 4:00PM. Trains from Vienna or Munich do that at a reasonable hour. Thanks for the tip on the organ recital. Does it coccur every day at noon? I have good memories of attending the organ recital at Paris’ St. Sulpice Church after Sunday Mass.

Gerald, wasn't criticism. Sorry if it sounded like that.

No, James, I did not take it as criticsm. Everyone has their different approaches to travel. When I was younger, I was more inclined to travel adventurously exploring new places. But now that I'm older, I prefer more relaxed, less stressful travel. Hence, I want to minimize connections and transfers so convenience is more important than price or travel time.

Thanks for the tip on the organ recital. Does it coccur every day at noon?

It does (from 2nd May to Oct. 31). Tickets are available from the ticket booth in the courtyard next to the cathedral.

Gerald, then I think we are in very near agreement. I’m an old fart just a handshake away from retirement. The number of places on my bucket list got so extensive that I finally just threw it away. Now each trip (I do 2 or 3 a year) I pick one location based on some esoteric event like an interesting guide or an amazing zip line or its Independence Day or ….. Then I look for a second destination that I can reach in under 4 hours by one means or another; but that second stop must be within a 4 hour connection to Budapest. Then I spend a week in Budapest doing very little beyond enjoying the view, the food and the wine. I have yet to regret a trip and I have seen amazing things and met amazing people that I would have never imagined existed. All pretty much with 4 hour non-stop connections.

Of course, being my age I have had the opportunity to do the standards. I always suggest a first trip should include 4 days in each London, Paris, Rome at a minimum. Then with each subsequent trip, expand you horizon.

Yes, James, we are similar travellers. We've been to Europe, mostly the Mediterranean countries, many times; 8 times to Italy, our favourite European country. I've been retired for over 20 years so this could be our last trip to Europe. Because of the river cruises, we're going to some places we've never been to before and one is Budapest, a city you love, I gather. We have a week between cruises and it was tough to choose a place (or places) for that time but we chose Rome because we love Italy and there is so much to see and do there. I quite enjoy the planning for such trips and I have several months to fill in a lot of details. So you may see me again on these forums.

I have not posted on this topic for several months but I thought I would do so now to pass on to others some knowledge I've gained while booking train travel over the last few months. To recap, I decided to use trains rather than flying to travel from place to place before after and in between two river cruises this September.

During this process I booked 5 separate train trips: 1) Frankfurt to Bruges, 2) Bruges to Amsterdam, 3) Strasbourg to Rome, 4) Rome to Passua (night train) and 5) Budapest to Prague. The last leg (Prague to Frankfurt) and to be by plane as train schedules were not good. To do this I used 6 different rail company web sites: 1) Deutsche Bahn (Germany), SNCB (Belgium), 3) SBB (Switzerland), 4) SNCF (France), 4) Trenitalia (Italy), 5) OBB (Austria - for a night Train) and 6) ČD (Czech Republic). Here's what I learned:

1. Start with the man in seat 61 (https://www.seat61.com/index.html), a web site run by a train enthusiast whose extensive and detailed knowledge of European train travel is most beneficial. He has valuable information on recommended train travel between different cities, information on country train company web sites, advice on discounts and ticket purchase, routes and types of trains and how to get the best prices. Of all the websites I visited, this was the most helpful.

2. Most sites (if not all) have an English version; some better than others. Most are easy to use although some involve many steps. The only one that was the least user friendly was the French SNCF although I was using it only for a short trip.

3. The Deutsche Bahn site (www.bahn.de) has schedules and train information for almost all of Europe although you can't buy tickets online for trips that don't start or end in Germany. They have very useful information (such as diagrams) of various train stations and routes. It is a easy to use site allowing you to adjust transfer times and select intermediate stations.

4. Some train tickets can be booked online 6 months in advance and you can print the ticket at home. For others it seems to be 60 days out. Plus it appears there are some trips for which tickets cannot be purchased online. This may be confusing as the web site might not even show the specific train you want yet it does appear on the Deutsche Bahn website. This was the case for a short trip from Strasbourg, France to Basel, Switzerland on the morning of September 11. I am still waiting for a reply from SNCF on that matter although perhaps the current strike is responsible.

5. The train tickets you purchase and print at home may not be in English so be thorough and careful when you enter your travel and passenger information. Be sure the names match your passport. Cancelling or changing a ticket may come with a high fee.

6. The European rail booking web sites such as Rail Europe, Trainline and Loco2 are convenient for one stop shopping and multi-country trips but the ticket prices are generally higher than dealing directly with each country's own rail line. Also not all tickets can be printed at home (eg. on Loco2) or there is a steep shipping charge.

7. There are lots of discount cards and memberships available from the various train companies but they generally are not that helpful unless you plan to do a lot of train travel within one country. There are senior prices, however, so if prompted to enter your age you should do so to take advantage of a lesser fare.

There may be other hints and advice I come upon but that will have to do for now. I hope others find this information helpful. I have benefited so much from the shared knowledge of other travellers and it's good to give back. Bye for now, Gerry

Thank you for the update. I always take night trains if I can and the Man in Seat 61 is an invaluable resource,
One thing that I wanted to mention is that in a double sleeping compartment (I assumed that's what you booked) the beds are stacked. One person has to climb the ladder to a bunk, they are not side by side.
It sounds like a great trip, have a wonderful time.

Thanks for the comment on night rains. This will be our first night train trip - Rome to Munich on the OBB NightJet. I was aware of the sleeping arrangements thanks to the Man in Seat 61. We opted for the deluxe compartment for the extra space and convenience of a bathroom and the increased cost was not that much. As we get older, our comfort and convenience takes priority over cost.

The perfect night train, for as little as $11,000

https://www.luxurytrainclub.com/trains/danube_express/

James, that is what I'd call a super luxury train trip! We have a very picturesque train trip in Canada on the Rocky Mountaineer. But it's a "train by day, hotel by night" style trip. Less expensive than the Golden Eagle and the scenery is magnificent. Here's their web site with some of the scenes: https://www.rockymountaineer.com/experience