three weeks in Europe

carol,

For a short three week time frame, that's a lot of places to visit and a large area to cover. I'm not sure it will be possible to see all of the places you listed, but I'd need to spend some time working on the details.

Could you clarify one point regarding a location in Germany. Are you referring to Rottenburg (am Neckar) OR Rothenburg (ob der Tauber)???

Travel from Paris to either Köln or Koblenz is very easy. There are direct trains from Gare du Nord to Köln with a travel time of 3H:17M, and other trains from Paris Est with one change. Trains to Koblenz are a few minutes longer and have one change. Use the DB Website for planning your rail journeys.

With only three days in Munich and day trips to "Dachau, Salzburg, Hallstatt and possibly Berchtesgaden", you won't have any time to actually enjoy Munich. A day trip to Hallstatt will be "challenging".

Train from Munich to Venice will take the better part of a full day, and the same on the way back for your flight home. I'd suggest booking your return flight from MXP or VCE, rather than use two of your three sightseeing days sitting on a train. A trip from Venice to the Cinque Terre will also take the better part of a day (about 5-6 hours) each way), so won't leave much time for sightseeing.

I'd highly recommend some serious pruning of your proposed Itinerary.

Good luck with your planning!

I agree completely with Ken.
I too used to travel as far and fast as possible in 18 day trips abroad. Now, I stay in one central location for 4-5 days doing day trips and then move to another central located city.
You just don't want your trip to be a blur by taking on too many locations.
Your days in London and Paris are fine, but I'd lengthen them to 5 days each. Both are world class cities and worthy of more than 3 days, unless you've to them previously.
I would suggest you fly into Paris and take an Eurostar fast train into London.
Then you can fly EasyJet.com very inexpensively into Munich or Innsbruck from London Gatwick airport.
From either city, you could get into your circle route into Germany and/or Austria.
I would recommend renting a car for travel throughout Bavaria and Western Austria. The roads are very easily driven outside of the big cities, and car travel is just so efficient. I especially enjoy rambling throughout Bavaria and Tirol going from city to city enjoying the incredible mountain scenery.
I always enjoy Munich, as it's a city with so many interesting sights to see, including Dachau.

And Salzburg is just 2 hours to the east; another great city for 2 days.
The Munich Airport is very good to fly home from.

Hi Ken I meant Rottenburg au der tauber. Here is a second thought I was con
sidering
Fly into Frankfurt and take train immediately to koblenz area chill out amd spend the night See Burg Eltz in the morning hike to some nice spots then continue along by train or by boat part way staying in a nice town along this path overnight then the day in Trier. Then Heidleburg, Stay overnight in Rottenburg au der tauber, Dinklesbuhl Nordlingen the next day (5 days) total
Munich with day trips (5 days) Salzburg Dachau (any suggestions to replace Hallstadt?) Then train from Munich to Venice (which I hear is amazing) three days in Venice I then thought of flying from Venice to Paris 3 days in Paris then London 3 days then home This still leaves 2 days to add somewhereDo you really think cinque terre is a stretch and if so any other idea

carol,

Your revised plan sounds better, but some fine tuning is still necessary. You'll need to use the correct spelling for Rothenburg ob der Tauber when buying tickets, so you may want to make a note of it.

Is something this along the lines of what you have in mind.....

D1 - Flight to FRA

D2 - Arrive FRA; Train to Koblenz (There are two rail stations at FRA, a Regional and a Fernbahnhof for long distance trains. Trains to Koblenz may leave from either one. Check the bahn.de website for details).

D3 - Visit Burg Eltz (depending on which day you go, you may take the train to Treis-Karden or Moselkern. There are Buses from TK to the Castle on weekends or you can make the one hour or so hike from Moselkern if you're so inclined). Train from Koblenz to TK is only about 30 minutes. You may want to stay another night in Koblenz so that you don't have to haul your luggage on the trip to Burg Eltz.

D4 - Train to a "nice town along this path" and Trier.

D5 - Heidelberg, Dinklesbuhl, Nordlingen??? (not sure where you're going fit these in, as you'll need to allow for transportation times?).

D6 - Rothenburg ODT (are you planning 1 night or 2?). It's difficult to provide many suggestions on this part of your trip without knowing whether you're just planning day trips to these towns, or whether you're planning to stay in each one?

D7 - Train to Munich, touring in afternoon

D8 - Munich (be sure to allow for some time here, as there's LOTS of history and lots to see).

D9 - Munich (day trip to Dachau - will take about half a day with transportation - you can either go there on your own or take a guided tour with Radius Tours).

D10 - Munich (day trip to Salzburg).

D11 - Munich (are you interested in visiting the Castles in Füssen? You could also take a day trip to Berchtesgaden, although that will be a minimum of 2.5 hours each way involving both train and Bus - while there you could tour the Eagle's Nest, the Dokumentation Centre & Bunkers or take a Salt Mine tour - you'll have to choose one of the sights there, as that's probably all you'll have time for).

D12 - Train to Venice (there's one direct train with a travel time of 6H:39M).

D13 - Venice

D14 - Venice

D15 - Flight to Paris (I'd suggest using EasyJet, but be sure to book early to get the best prices - read their Terms & Conditions carefully, especially regarding luggage limits - they offer flights to both CDG and ORY, and of the two, you might find ORY a bit easier to navigate). If you're planning to buy a Paris Museum Pass, buy it at the airport when you arrive in Paris.

D16 - Paris

D17 - Paris

D18 - EuroStar to London (you MUST check-in at Gare du Nord AT LEAST 30 minutes prior to departure - I'd leave extra time as you'll also clear U.K. Passport control in Paris - have a look at the excellent Man in Seat 61 website for details on booking the EuroStar).

D19 - London

D20 - London

D21 - Flight home (if you're using Air Canada, LHR will be your only choice - if you use Air Transat or Canadian Affair, you'll likely be departing from LGW).

I'd suggest having a look at Guidebooks for each of the places you'll be visiting, as that will provide you with information not only for sightseeing, but also hotels, transportation, restaurants, etc.

One final point - there are some potentially expensive "caveats" when using trains in Italy, so be sure to do some "homework" on that. If you need further information, post another note.

It's getting late and I'm not focusing well, but this will give you a few things to consider.

Cheers!

Thanks to both replys I will have to fine tune again and possibly look at driving as an option. Maybe Fly into Frankfurt Taake the train to Koblenz and rent a car for the Mosel/Rhine and Part of the Romantic Road Then lose the car in Munich? This would solve the carting of luggage about and allow for better flow.

"I had hoped to find a train directly to either Koln or Koblenz to start our tour of the Mosel/ Rhine area?
We plan on 2 maybe 3 days in this area ending in Trier (any suggestions on hostels in the area would be great, or towns to see)... I will have to... look at driving as an option. Maybe Fly into Frankfurt Taake the train to Koblenz and rent a car for the Mosel/Rhine and Part of the Romantic Road. This would solve the carting of luggage about and allow for better flow."

Your bags shouldn't force you into a car if you plan this out. Here's what I'd do to make it simple.

Koblenz is very meh, especially near the station, where you'd want to stay. Your plans skip the Middle Rhine Valley altogether. If you want a hostel, stay in St. Goar's hostel instead, a small, inexpensive, older hostel on the cliffside just below Rheinfels Castle with a fantastic view of the best scenery on the river (and Burg Katz castle on the opposite bank.) St. Goar takes only 1.25 hours from FRA by train. Walk up to the castle if you feel like it for a look around. Chill. St. Goar has other room options as well.

Next morning, take a train to Cochem (change in Koblenz.) Drop bags at your B&B. Ride the train to Moselkern (15 minutes) and walk to Burg Eltz. Then return to and enjoy Cochem in the pm - fantastic town. Castle has excellent birds of prey show if time.

Day 3: Daytrip to Trier. Night in Cochem. Take an evening river cruise excursion?

Day 4. Heidelberg probably isn't worth the time-consuming detour. Rothenburg is super-touristy, but OK, you've seen the photos and have to go there. (It's about an hour closer to Rothenburg from Cochem than it is from Trier.)

Day 4 and beyond: You do NOT need to drive every last town on the the Romantic Road and do not need a car. On Day 4 make a stop in Würzburg on the way to Rothenburg (your train stops there anyway.) See the Residenz (palace) and a little of the town. W'burg has lockers to stow your stuff for a while. Move on to R'burg. Day 5 in Rothenburg. Then see some RR towns by train if you have time... Day 6: Move on to Donauwörth, or Augsburg (hostel, Augsburg station has lockers, not sure about D'wörth) for 2 nights; drop bags at inn or in locker. From there you can take train to Nördlingen, Harburg, and either Donauwörth or Augsburg. Then move on to Munich.

carol,

I'd suggest looking at each leg that you'll be travelling before deciding whether or not to rent a car. I'm not entirely clear on your plans for Trier, Heidelberg, Dinklesbuhl and Nordlingen so don't have any new ideas to offer at the moment.

Travel by train (especially the fast trains) will be a more efficient use of your somewhat limited travel times, and with that you won't have any issues with parking, tolls, high fuel costs, CDW costs, etc. A car may be the best idea in some places but before deciding on that, consider the big picture.

Thanks alot Russ Your suggestions are great and appreciated!