I have bought a France-Italy pass and booke 1st class seat reservations for all cities in France and Italy that I'll visit. Seats I was given on TGV trains look like they should be in 1st class (coaches 1 and 3 on two different trains). However, on train #139 from Nice to Milan I was assigned to a window and a middle seat. That means it's a row of at least 3 seats. I booked my seats on the phone for an extra fee on top of the reservation fee that is already higher than online, and they still say they can't view the whole seating map of the coach. Does anyone have a seat map for TGV and Corail trains in France (particularly Nice to Milan) for me to see where exactly I received my seats? RailEurope is really frustrating! Never again will I give them my business. Please help.
Posted by
Tresana, Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
23281 posts
You are confused but I cannot help you. I have NEVER seen a train configuration with three across other than the old compartment trains which are few. All the high speeds are opening seating. It is possible that the Nice to Milan is a compartment style train but that would make it pretty old.
First class is always 2 and 1 and second is 2x2. I have found seat numbering to be a little odd on most trains. It is possible that the odd number seats are on one side and even on the other. 1 and 3 could be together.
Too bad you did not read some of the prior postings about RailEurope on this site. They make you feel that you have to buy first class tickets when second class is more than adequate plus their high fees.
Posted by
OP
Seattle, WA, USA
10 posts
Hi Frank,
Thanks for your reply, it was quick! I am not confused about the seats because I got an email confirmation for the booking that also marks my seats as window and middle seat. Since I know there is also an isle seat (I was told on the phone while booking), that makes it 3 in a row. I have read a lot about RailEurope and I thought I knew what to expect but they surpassed my expectations. They are rude and not service oriented at all. Next time I will be booking directly on the respective rail sites.
Thanks again for your comment.
Maria
Posted by
Elk Grove, CA, USA
6898 posts
On the TGV, I believe that the first class carriages are the first three. For the seating, I believe that there are indeed 3 seats per row in first class. Two are on one side of the aisle and there is only one on the other side of the aisle. It might be called a middle seat because it is but in reality, you're on the aisle. This isn't an airliner. One thing that I would be concerned about is that carriage #3 could be a carriage where smoking is permitted.
I can't get you a seating plan for the precise train you are on, but I can link you to a TGV seating plan that may be close. CLICK HERE.
Posted by
OP
Seattle, WA, USA
10 posts
Larry, thanks for the plan. It really helps. I am mostly worried about the Nice-Milan train. It's a Corail IC train. I can't find anything on this train. Do you happen to know which European rail company has seating map on their site?
Maria
Posted by
Elk Grove, CA, USA
6898 posts
Yes. www.eurostar.com has a great seating plan for their trains from England to France. I'm not sure that they will do you any good. I can link you to a picture of a Corail train car. CLICK HERE. The seat on the left is a window seat.
I have two film clips from www.youtube.com. The first is somebody filming the inside of a Corail Teoz train. You have to get up to about 4 minutes into the clip before you see the inside a first-class car. CLICK HERE.
The second clip kind blows away what I said above. It shows a Corail Teoz - Bordeaux-Nice train departing a station. Note the large numbers on the windows as the carriages pass by. Those are the class of the cars. The first 3 cars passing by are 2nd class carriages. CLICK HERE.
Posted by
OP
Seattle, WA, USA
10 posts
Larry, thanks for the neat video links. It appears from one of the videos that we will be riding in a compartment with 3 seats facing 3 seats. I went to the SNCF site, and when I entered 2 passengers on this train, it also gave me 1 window and 1 middle seat. It also had a warning that on this train we will be traveling with strangers. How do you interpret this?
Posted by
Elk Grove, CA, USA
6898 posts
I'm not sure as you are always riding with strangers. On night trains, it is very common to sleep with people you don't know (i.e. strangers) in the 4 or 6-person sleeper compartments unless there are 4 or 6 people in your party or you book the whole compartment. It could also be a subtle reminder to watch your surroundings as luggage theft and robberies do occasionally occur.
Posted by
Tresana, Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
23281 posts
As I posted earlier, the only time I have seen three across seating is in compartments. I truthfully thought that most of these cars had been phased out as the newer cars are not configured in that manner. I have not ridden in a compartment in several years. And you will be riding with strangers if the other four seats are assigned. I don't like that arrangement because it can be very tight especially with luggage. If that is the configuration, you may not have any choice.
Posted by
Elk Grove, CA, USA
6898 posts
Frank, I agree with you on the compartment stuff. However, in the You Tube links that I posted above, I was surprised the see that the Frence Corail Teoz carriages on the Bordeaux-Nice run looked like the older models. Even the engine had some age to it. I don't know the age on the film clip.
Posted by
Seattle
80 posts
Standard seating on open-compartment cars in Europe:
2x2 in second class
2x1 in first class
In a compartment car:
6 seats total, 3 on each side, facing each other in second class.
4 seats total, 2 on each side, facing each other in first class.
This is the same all over Europe. The first class cars may be at the front of the train, or may be at the rear of the train. You won't know until you get there.
For those making comments about compartment seating cars, I'd agree that they are a dying breed and are extinct in France and Spain. However, they still have a presence in Italy (rode one on the Firenze-Roma segment of a Milan-Naples IC train last week) and are STANDARD on all Austrian trains (though RailJet is open plan, I think).
You'll find quite a few compartments kicking around Germany. The ICE cars have 2 or 3 compartments in each second class car in addition to the open-plan seats so you can chose the layout you prefer.
In Eastern Europe, I've only ever seen open-plan cars as nearly new equipment operated on international trains and ONLY owned by Hungarian Railways and Serbian Railways. Otherwise, compartments are still standard over there. I even rode a Wien-Zagreb train this last trip with Croatian equipment. The cars were all nearly new, and compartments.
Posted by
OP
Seattle, WA, USA
10 posts
Hi to all who have pitched in with this misterious Corail Nice to Milan train.
I wrote to the author of the book "Man in Seat 61" Mark Smith, and that's what he had to say about this train:
"The Nice-Milan EuroCity trains are fact Italian intercity trains rather than Corail, Corail being a brand name for specific type of French air-con coaches, it's just that the French online system seems to bandy this name around as a generic title for other air-con trains it doesn't recognise with any other brand name.
Most or all of the cars are compartments with side corridor, with 6 seats per compartment in 1st class, a row of 3 facing another row of 3, window, middle & corridor on each side of the compartment. It's possible there are one or two 'open' (i.e. non-compartment) cars in the train, in which case the first class cars will have one seat, aisle, then two seats across the width of the car.
I suspect you're in a compartment, with two window an two middle seats."
You're probably familia with his fabulous website www.seat61.com. It has a wealth of information on train travel in Europe and elsewhere. It was really exiting to get a reply from him. Big help, just like all of you here, on this forum. Thank you, all.