Spending close to a 3 weeks in 4 countries, best travel method?

You should go into the Eurail website and review how the Eurail passes work...it gives a guide where you your start destination( Amsterdam would be Benelux), and then it gives you your options on which countries you can travel to from there. So, based on the info on the site, you could go from Benelux to Germany, but then you couldn't go from Germany directly to Italy( Switzerland is in the way and would count as one of your countries even if you were just passing through ), but you could go to France. Something you may want to consider is that for the cities you've chosen, to travel from one to another, factoring in waiting for the train, travel time, getting to/from hotels,etc, will likely eat up the better part of the day for those days. So that means you could spend 4-6 days of your allotted time getting from one location to another..
Even with a Rail Pass of any kind, you would still have to make reservations in advance, and pay, for accommodations on night trains. In addition, keep in mind that certain train routes/trains would require a reservation fee even though you hold a Pass( such as high speed intercity express trains in some areas) I would suggest you consider, for two weeks, limiting yourself to 3 countries, either in the northern part of the continent, or the southern part. All of the major cities you've chosen are worth several days each, at a minimum. If you haven't already, buy Rick's Europe Through the Back Door and read it cover to cover. It will be the single best investment you could ever make before going to Europe for the first time. It will teach you how to "do Europe" the right way...

For Berlin-Rome: you can of course travel between these two cities, but you would need a pass for Austria too since your train travels through it. A 5-country pass for a minimum of 5 days will cost you about $500 altogether, right? The railpass might not be your best deal. Did your research include pricing the individual travel legs you will make? There are typically tickets for around 39€ between Amsterdam and Berlin if you book 92 days in advance here: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en (It's too early for your trip for fares to appear - but you can sample-check fares for dates 92 days out from today.) Did you look into cheap flights? Berlin to Rome can be a 20-hr. or so train ride. Ryanair offers flights to Rome from Leipzig, about 1-2 hours south of Berlin by train. You could get to Leipzig for about 19€ with the advance purchase tickets. Saw a Ryanair fare of 22€ each today for a sample date in July. So far, that's only about 80€ each, and you've done most of your route already. There are other budget carriers besides Ryanair. Find them here: http://www.whichbudget.com/

We are traveling to 4 countries in May. I did the math on a saver railpass-4 countries-5 days and found that even with the extra reservation fees on some legs, it came out almost the same price as if we were to buy all of our tickets separate but that was going 2nd class. The pass gives you first class ride. I think that the people who keep suggesting that it is cheaper to NOT get the pass are traveling longer, cheaper routes at very off times of the day, etc. I could not make it work for our routes at all. So we bought the saver pass from RS. RS people have been so helpful in answering our questions. We bought the needed reservations on raileurope site and we are good to go--first class for the price of second class! Also like paying in USD for everything beforehand. Good Luck!

Laurie, it sounds as though you have done your research. However, if you relied on Rail Europe for your price comparisons you were probably quoted inflated prices for the tickets. (They do that to make the passes look like better deals.) It seems to almost always work out that second class tickets purchased on advance (sometime at great discounts) are cheaper than first-class multicountry passes. But the convenience of the pass, and the amenities of first class, are certainly worth something and it's not a "wrong" choice. I think that the people here who give advice about trains are NOT "traveling longer, cheaper routes at very off times of the day." Rather they are just making different decision than you, trading off the convenience of a pass and the benefits (which not everyone values) of first-class travel for cheaper tickets.

"I did the math on a saver railpass-4 countries-5 days and found that even with the extra reservation fees on some legs, it came out almost the same price as if we were to buy all of our tickets separate but that was going 2nd class." Raileurope: It's very clever of them to help you compare railpass prices to the highest possible ticket prices instead of the prices that people really pay. They don't want you to know you can ride the SAME trains for much less because they want to sell you a pass - naturally. Using Raileurope alone is like going to a Honda dealer and asking them for a price comparison with a Toyota. Sample date, May 15, 8:56 am, Amsterdam to Berlin: Raileurope: "from" $179 in 2nd class.
But at DB: 39€, or $51, 2nd class, advance purchase ticket Again, these are tickets for the SAME TRAINS. (I notice however that the Raileurope departure from A'dam is incorrect - off by 6 minutes.)

Kevin, You might find this somewhat useful; http://lee-reidfamilytravels.blogspot.com/2012/02/train-travel.html It's my blog entry re train travel in Europe. It includes links to the relevant rail companies in each country as well as other useful links - and it also addresses the issue of rail pass vs. p2p tickets.

Randy - Thank you for the link about the trains, it was very informative! I've looked at "the man in seat 61" website before and couldn't agree more, it's such a valuable resource. I will look more in to buying point-to-point tickets. Russ - The pass I found for the 5 countries was $786 altogether for the two of us. I've tried to research point-to-point before, but I get in trouble when picking specific train terminals on the website. Is there specific I should look at for the point-to-point tickets? A flight from Berlin to Rome wouldn't be a bad idea at all Glenn - Thank you for clarifying the my issue with the bordering countries question. I will have to think this over some more. I'm definitely going to read Rick's book, just ordered it! Is our itinerary too ambitious for 16 days of travel? We were planning 2 days in Amsterdam, 2 days in Berlin, 2 in Rome, 3 in Sperlonga, 4 in Nice and 2 in Paris. Calculating for the time spent travelling we would only have 1 whole in cities like Amsterdam and Berlin. Those cities are list because we really want to see them at least for a little bit. Both of us are starting medical school next year, so it is unlikely that we will return to Europe in the near future; or else we would split these cities into two or more trips. Just looking for advice to make the trip as great as possible! Thanks everyone for the help

"Russ - The pass I found for the 5 countries was $786 altogether for the two of us." OK, that's probably the 5-day, 5-country, 2nd class youth pass at $796. That would get you through Austria as well. "I've tried to research point-to-point before, but I get in trouble when picking specific train terminals on the website. Is there specific I should look at for the point-to-point tickets?" Question isn't quite clear. You can get prices between the first 2 cities below at the German railways site I gave you. Use the station names as given - case sensitive. Amsterdam Centraal Berlin Hbf ROME You will probably not get rail prices for Berlin to Rome there however. You can probably get prices to Milan though - the German railways site gives you prices only for trains that start in Germany and terminate in Italy, but not for connecting trains within Italy. Use the Italian railways site for prices between Milan and Rome (if you want the train - I'd fly from Berlin!) and between Rome and Nice (just use Ventimiglia which is in Italy, and you'll get very close to the price for nice. The site may also have some special deals): http://www.trenitalia.com/ These are the station names you can use for schedules at the same German railways site for the French destinations - but you won't get prices. Nice Ville
PARIS You can probably get prices between these French destinations at the French Railways site: http://www.sncf.fr/en_EN/flash/#

I have to defend my earlier reply. I did NOT rely on Raileurope for my ticket cost information. I went on several sites such trenitalia, sbb.ch, oebb, TGV, etc. My husband is an accountant and he checked all my math and it still came out to within just a few dollars comparing 2nd class each leg costs to pass saver + reservations on 6 of the legs to each other. Like I said, I did not check late night or extremely early morning times. Mostly 8-9 am times as we are on a tight schedule in order to pack tons into our allotted time. My point is: Check many websites- local, etc. and see which is best. I like travelling first class especially in Italy and when it is the same price as 2nd class and easier. But not that necessary if it were to cost very much more.

Russ - I'm sorry I was looking for a website to find these prices for the trains. I've been trying to use the bahn.de website, but its not loading properly at the time. I'll look into flying to Rome, would be much easier like you said!) If we did train it, we would have to get a train to Milan and then to Rome yes? I'll start pricing these trains together to get a rough estimate. Do you think out itinerary is too ambitious for 16 days of travel? Laurie - How much were your Rail passes for first class? Where did you go to make your seat reservations? Where are you and your husband travelling in May. Sorry for all the questions!

Russ - I'm not able to load the German or French rail site for some reasons so I can't get an estimate. Also, on the Italian website I put a journey from Milan to Rome but it said prices were unavailable for some reason. I set the dates for May 18 so I don't think it was too far in the future. Is there any reason it won't get me a quote?

We found info on Rick Steves railpass site. We looked at our itinerary and decided how many days we would be traveling by train and how many countries we would be traveling to and through. We bought a Saver pass as we are 2 persons traveling together. This pass is good for 5 days of train travel into 4 countries and we paid $455 for ea one. We have a few legs in Italy and from Switzerland to France that require ressies. We bought some of these from raileurope.com and the other Italy ones we will buy when we fly into the airport. None of the reservations are more than $12E ea. This pass is for first class only but you can get on second class if there are no seats in first but usually it is the other way around. Happy to help anytime.

Laurie, We also bought 3 country select passes for our upcoming trip. I also did the math (we have several travel days that are fairly long distances). Point to point would have been just slightly cheaper. I'm with you for just a very little bit more we get to travel in 1st which really isn't a big deal. What IS a big deal to me is the ability to have flexibility in our schedule. If we don't make the 8:00 train - it's no big deal we just catch the next one. I research ahead of time to figure out which trains would require reservations. I agree with most of the posters on this site - if you want to really save money you can usually do that by purchasing your tickets way in advance before you leave for your trip, but again - for me the flexibility is pretty valuable. This will be our 3rd trip using rail passes of some sort.

"I think that the people who keep suggesting that it is cheaper to NOT get the pass are traveling longer, cheaper routes at very off times of the day, etc." To the contrary, about the only way to make a pass pay is to do a lot of long distance traveling, like Amsterdam to Berlin to Rome to Nice to Paris. Do you realize that there are things in between these far flung destinations? And if you did much research you would have found that, except for discount fares, which blow passes out of the water, standard fares are not cheaper at "very off times of the day". These are trains, not airplanes. The standard fares are based on the type of train and the distance, not the time of day. I, too, run on a tight schedule. Often there is only one train in the morning that will get me to where I want to go, with enough time to see what I want to see, and still get the last train to where I want to spend the night. With this kind of schedule, booking specific trains is not an inconvenience, it's a necessity. A couple of years ago, I landed in Frankfurt, trained to the Mosel for 4 nights, then went by express train to the Harz N.P. for 5 nights, then by express to Karlsruhe for 3 nights, and finally to Mainz for 1 night before flying home. I used €29 Sparpreis tickets for the two day long travels and two €21 Länder tickets for the shorter days. That totaled €100 ($132, today). A four day, 2nd class German Rail pass would have cost me over twice as much, $280.

This is my take on your travel plans: London-Amsterdam - buy advanced purschase tickets on Eurostar for as little as £ 45 Amsterdam-Berlin - buy advanced purchase tickets on DB for a day train. Caveat: ask for a change in Hannover, so that you are assigned a high-speed ICE for the latter part of your trip ARRIVING BEFORE YOUR DIRECT IC train! As little as € 39 Berlin-Roma - only viable with planes, sincerely. Otherwise, it is at least a 16h train trip. Roma - Sperlonga: no trains available on the village. You need a train to Fondi and then a bus. Buy in Roma, no advanced purchase needed for that sector. Sperlonga/Roma - Nice: it is a complicated route because of slow tracks and lack of international trains with decent performance. Take a plane.* Nice - Paris: purchase in advance your ticket from TGV-Europe. ====================== AVOID night trains like the plague. They are the European equivalent of a Greyhound overnight filthy bus from - say - Denver to Chicago. You'd rather skip shoddy transportation in US, do the same in Europe. Unless you want to pay for an exclusive use sleeper with an internal WC+shower. If you want to make these trips by a rail pass, you need a pass covering Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria or Switzerland, Italy and France. And it will not cover the British part of the trip. So it is most definitively an extremely bad idea to get a pass (and we even didn't talk about the compulsory reservations).

Justin, flexibility on Eurail is partially an illusion if it involves trips in Italy (any train but regional ones, and you most likely don't want to spend 8h on regional trains Milano-Roma...), TGV in France* and Thalys trains. These trains require reservations. *TGV France now has, on top of reservation requriment, quotas. This mean even if a train is not full, the number of pass holders able to reserve them is limited. They have a two-tiered quota: a lower but tight one (reservations at €8 IIRC), and a higher one (reservations €18 IIRC). And then no more pass holders travelling on that specific train. So passes are mostly good for flexibility where it is not needed (trips with tons or regional trains). The Swiss Pass and German Rail pass might be worth the cost, though, for country-specific uses.