Speeding Tickets in Switzerland

Pay it, you probably earn it. Use the search feature. There has been an extensive discussion concerning Italian tickets especially for the restricted driving zones. With the internet and computers it is much easier to find people.

I received a ticket in Switzerland, but it was a parking ticket. I thought parking would be free on Sunday, like in Paris, but in Lausanne parking is never free.

Interestingly, you can pay a parking ticket at any Post Office in Switzerland. So I took care of it prior to departing.

I agree with the advice about paying the ticket. Was it a speed camera or a policeman?

The speeding ticket was from a camera.

It is surprising to me that so many travelers rent cars without knowing the restrictions for a specific area.

The more I read the more I realize that driving in Europe is not as easy as it was 20 years ago when I first drove there.

Every few weeks I read about a new tax or restriction of some kind in a favorite tourist area.

Kent,

I received notice of a speeding ticket almost 9 months after our visit to Switzerland (Sep 2007). It was written in German...so I just ignored it. About 3 months later I got another notice (this time in multiple languages) saying that I owed 80 Euros for speeding 92 km in an 80 km zone...it was a camera ticket. I ignored this one as well. Last month, they tried to get me to pick up a registered letter from the Swiss Embassy...I ignored it. I don't know what other's will do...but for me, I intend to ignore these requests. It may not sound like the "proper civic attitude" but I will risk sounding non PC and just resign myself to not traveling in Switzerland for the next few years (not too hard for me to do). Note that there are numerous instances here in the Bay area where people have demonstrated that the infallible speed camera tickets do not show the License plate number of the recipient's car. To me, this is the Euro equivalent of the "speed trap" and I intend to give it the same level of respect that I have for these obnoxious practices here in the US. I did not receive a copy of the "picture" and I don't have a record of the license plate of the car I was driving...

Bill....if they didn't catch the license plate, how did they know where to send the ticket?

Also, ignoring a registered letter is not the same as non-delivery. In someways ignoring a registered letter is better evidence of knowledge than accepting it.

Bill, sorry, but I find that attitude reprehensible. Isn't accountability something we should all be aiming for? Would you find it acceptable for foreigners to come to your country and be scofflaws?

Norma, I'm sorry if I offend you. It is precisely accountability that I am seeking. The fact that they have provided no evidence that their ticket was for the car that I was driving is reason enough to ignore it. Since they are not manning the speed traps, they have an obligation to provide some meaningful support to their claim that I did indeed violate some law. We are accustomed to seeing copies of the photos taken here in the Bay for those cases where the tickets are based on "photo evidence". I'm not saying that they are intentionally falsifying anything, just that it is not uncommon for human errors to come into play. I have personnaly been cited for failure to pay a Golden Gate Bridge toll. They dropped the claim immediately when I told them I could prove that the car was no where near the Golden Gate on the date in question. They said, "mistakes sometimes happen".

Norm, in answer to your question, it takes a person to read the license plate and then enter the data into the data base...I understand from people who audit manual data entry that entry errors are common (one number off on the keyboard)...or mayby the picture is not as clear as it should be and they "guess" the alpha numeric characters.

But Bill,....then the colour and make of the vehicle, and its VIN wouldn't match up. Perhaps the registered letter from the Swiss embassy would have given you the proof you seek.

Norm,

If they key in the wrong license plate number, they will get a vehicle with a VIN that matches that number...they don't have pictures of the vehicle in the data base and from what I understand, they don't take the time to try and identify the make of the vehicle (much less the color) in their search. That coupled with the fact that I didn't recognize the place that the speeding was to have occured gave me all of the incentive I needed to ignore the ticket. As for picking up the registered mail it would require me to leave work early or to make a 40 mile round trip to pick up what I believe to be a bogus ticket...I'm sorry but that's not going to happen.

You'd think that the colour or the make would show up in the photo...at least enough to tell whether it was light or dark coloured. It's too bad you would have had to have made a 40-mile round trip...I thought the USPS would have had registered mail a little closer to you than that! If you think it's a bogus ticket, why don't you just ignore it AFTER you see what they're charging you with?

Bill: BAFFLEGAB !

If they tell you the time and place of the speeding and you were on that road at that time Id suggest paying it.

I got a flashing red light near lausanne three weeks ago,the moment I sped up a little,and sure enough,120 e for 14 k over.thanks for the discussion,I guess im paying( just after getting a surprise 140e baggage overcharge on air france)

Bill, if you are truly seeking accountability, rather than simply evading the fine, you could respond to the ticket and ask for verification of the license number. (You did keep a record of you rental car license number, didn't you?)

As for not recognizing the name of the place where you were caught, in driving from Point A to Point B in Switzerland you probably drove through tens of little places with names you wouldn't recognize.

If you were on that road on that day, it would be pretty hard to deny it. How do you think they found you if not from a license number connected to a rental car connected to your name and address?

Hey, folks, all Bill is asking for is a little more proof. He's already noted he doesn't recognize the location of the infraction and that's all a person needs. If the Swiss can set up speed cameras and mail out tickets and a lot of folks pay, bully for them. Some people won't pay and the authorities can choose to take further steps and those being asked to pay can decide for themselves whether or not they can stand the heat as it pertains to the possibility of dealing with collection agencies and whatnot. But that's for US to decide, not third parties riding their high horses across their comfortable moral high ground.

Failing to pick up a registered letter when notified there is one waiting for you at the post office is not the same thing as being physically presented such a letter and refusing to accept it. If we're going to dip our toe into legal issues, let's have some knowledge base and not just shoot from the hip. Bill provided specific information here...let's stay on task.

Failing to pay a bill in a foreign country may indeed result in the matter being turned over to a collection agency. Not paying for something you bought is an entirely different matter than the issue at hand. I guarantee you the US collection agencies will not touch these small potatoes for the little vigorish involved AND in which the issue, legally speaking, is still in doubt.

So, John, to answer your original question, it's kind of up to you to decide what to do. If it were me, I wouldn't attempt to dispute it, and I wouldn't pay it, I would ignore it. Bill seems to share this sentiment. Others don't agree. However, unless anyone can provide evidence of ACTUAL persuasive collection activity as opposed to "here's what COULD happen," paying because not paying will be more expensive later is a currently unfounded fear.

Seems like OP had his mind made up not to pay the ticket before he posted.

JMHO

Neil...it seems the Swiss may have been trying to offer the "proof" you say Bill is asking for...but he's chosen to refuse it. And failing to pick up a registered letter when notified there is one waiting for you at the post office is EXACTLY the same thing as being physically presented such a letter and refusing to accept it....we're not talking about the serving of a summons "as seen on TV." The "high moral ground" some of us operate under is the one that calls for respect for the laws of the countries we visit....please don't disparage it. Respecting those laws hopefully means that visitors to our shores respect ours....and we can't hide behind our local laws and traditions as an excuse to avoid infractions we may have committed elsewhere. If the Swiss choose to issue tickets based on cameras (something that's done in the United States, by the way), then so be it....we take our lumps and we learn from it. You're absolutely correct...Bill, John, and anyone else caught in this situation can decide whether or not to pay...that is their right. But no one who's replied is deciding for them either...they're offering their opinion, just as you are...and their opinions should not be derided by you as "riding their high horses across their comfortable moral high ground." You also may want to read the responses a little more closely before jumping on your "high moral horse" that there's no evidence provided that not paying it may incur a future penalty. The only person who's mentioned it one way or the other confirms there WAS a consequence....see Kim's response.

Well, Norm, it's ironic that you would cite Kim's post as a purported example of my inability to read closely as it was her post for which I alluded to the comparing of apples to oranges. I tried to make a distinction between someone who "did not clear up a bill she incurred in her parent's name" and a recipient of a camera-generated traffic ticket. Did this young female scofflaw not pay some rent or otherwise walk away from some payment she knows she should have made? Is it for a not insignificant amount of money such as, say, a fair amount more than a speeding ticket? If so, having a collection agency on her tail is not unexpected and is just. However, it certainly cannot be promoted as an example of a repercussion for not paying a Swiss speeding ticket. Nice try, but quite a bit short of the mark.

Folks, let's get real about these European traffic ticket posts...as Jacquie noted, it's probably true that the original posters are just trying to find out if they can get away with not paying. If there were any moral misgivings, they would just pay it and dispense with it. I mean, du-uh! So all you folks who chime in saying the "right" thing to do is pay it are missing the point. Missing. The. Point. It may make you mad that this person isn't paying the fine because you yourself would pay it and you don't like the concept of having to pay if somebody else doesn't. So you judge. And make up all kinds of things that might happen but can't say ever have. The person who dislikes paying traffic fines doesn't begrudge you for paying yours..."go right ahead" is that person's attitude. I know y'all can't help shaking your self-righteous fingers...it makes you feel good....but it offers no guidance to the person asking the question. K?

Gee, Neil, I assumed the "bill" Kim was talking about was for a speeding ticket, since that is the topic at hand. I guess I make my assumptions, as you make yours. And contrary to your assertion, NO ONE in this series has suggested any sort of repercussions if John didn't pay. NO ONE has "made up all kinds of things that might happen but can't say ever have." John asked for advice if anyone has disputed such a ticket....no one offered such advice. He also asked for advice on how to handle it....advice which was given. Please don't insert comments on issues which weren't even discussed! As for "moral high ground," John has never indicated he would ignore it or refuse to pay it....that stand lies with you and Bill.

Neil, I do not see where "Bill" ever asked for proof. He is just ignoring the registered letter, hoping it will go away. Did he ask for proof or a photo of the license plate? He doesn't say, so one may assume he did not. Or if he did, he is deliberately ignoring the response.

I think this is a good example of an "attitude" that gives American tourists a bad reputation. Neither of you shows the slightest respect for Swiss law. To you, if there are no consequences in terms of a bad credit report or an arrest, it doesn't matter and you need not respect the citation.

As for Bill not recognizing the place named on the ticket, I thought I explained that. Switzerland has a lot of small place names. If you take a local train between two points your train will stop at countless places you never heard of, and whose existence you would never have known had you not printed out the train schedule so you would know where to get off the train. If you are driving between two destinations, you will pass countless places with names you will never know. It may be the name of a crossroad, or a farm, or a church, or other significant landmark.

Did he ever try to confirm the name of the place with Google or a map? I bet not.

The Swiss authorities are, in my experience from many trips there, extremely reliable, precise, and honest.

I hope Bill will keep us posted on his further adventures when he returns to Europe and rent a car.

John, I hope it is clear from this discussion that you should pay the fine. Or contest it if you like, and ask for proof. But at least respond; don't just ignore it.

Neil...you continue to make sweeping assumptions based on no facts! As I noted, John never said he didn't want to pay the ticket! He asked for advice on how he should handle it. And I've failed to see any evidence that "the Italians are incredible traffic camera scammers." As you yourself have noted, it's SWITZERLAND, not Italy.

I have no doubt that the Swiss cops are "extremely reliable, precise, and honest." This is why I assume the ticket arrived with specific instructions for disputing such a ticket. John doesn't want to pay the ticket. Perhaps he wants to make sure he really deserved it, that there wasn't a mistake. Pretty easy to do this. He wants to know if anybody else disputed such a ticket. Nobody has responded saying they did. However, there are plenty of people who say he should just pay the fine without checking its validity because, you know, he's guilty and the police don't make mistakes. Anyone reading the news lately knows the Italians are incredible traffic camera scammers. The Swiss, probably not.

All I was trying to do was point out that John has received zero answers to his question and a lot of alternative answers that are best ignored because assuming he's an adult he can make up his own mind on the moral issue. Entirely too many people out there telling other people how they should live their lives at the slightest provocation. It's tiresome.

Discuss.

Neil, if you go back to John's original post, he asks 3 questions. 1) Has anyone received a speeding ticket in Switzerland? 2) Did you dispute it? 3) How should he handle his ticket?

It is incorrect to say that no one has answered his question. The first 3 or 4 people to post all suggested he pay the ticket. That was the answer to "How should I handle this?" After that the focus was on Bill's intervention, and John did not return to the discussion.

Gosh, Norm, how about this:

http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/italian-traffic-camera-scam-exposed

This was a pretty widely distributed news story. If you perform a Google search on "Italian traffic camera scam" you return 526,000 hits. I'm just sayin'.

Now, I'm just gonna say one more thing about this issue. If you think John's question, "Any recommendation on how we should handle this?" means he was seeking advice on whether or not to pay it, that is to say, he was on the cusp of a moral dilemma and just needed a nudge in the right direction, you are being fatuous. He's trying to get out of paying the ticket. And this is what I will believe unless John returns to this thread to state, "Oh, I never pay traffic tickets unless strangers tell me I should."

I mean, really.

Neil: On what do your base your statement "he (i..e. John) is trying to get out of paying the ticket." Where is this stated? Is it possible you are in error? Oh, wait, I forgot! We are fatuous, claiming moral superiority, judgmental and a bunch of very silly people, so you must be on the side of the angels in this matter. I mean really.

Neil...go ahead and make assumptions about why John posted. But please don't make moral judgments about him, then turn around and criticise the rest of us. Yes, this one operation was illegal....but it was caught by the police, if you noticed. To condemn all with the comment "everyone knows the Italians are incredible traffic camera scammers" is both incorrect and indefensible. You seem to want to make wide-ranging and negative assumptions about everyone who seems to post in opposition to what you believe. If you find it "tiresome" to read such material...then here's a simple solution....DON'T READ IT. Most of us would rather see a wide range of suggestions and potential answers to questions posted on this wall. We certainly don't need someone like you passing judgment on them.

I find the Norma and Norma from Canada tag team exhilirating. Joined by your enmity of me. I'm rootin' for you two kids!

Well, I'm over here in Seattle (close to you) and I find your reference to Italian traffic cameras totally irrelevant.

Sez you: "If you perform a Google search on "Italian traffic camera scam" you return 526,000 hits. I'm just sayin'."

What does that have to do with traffic cameras in Switzerland????

Hey, Lola...we're neighbors! Wanna go to a Nirvana concert with me?

The relevance of Italian cameras is that regardless of the countries in which these systems are employed, they are imperfect and mistakes are made. How do I know this? I work closely with a police department that has such cameras. A crazy coincidence, I know! The details are long and tiresome...let's just say that in my opinion one on the receiving end of such a citation should ALWAYS demand the particulars. As I noted, the expectation is that the Swiss have it goin' on better than the Italians. I submit that anyone who has had more than one, um, meeting with the Italian police can vouch for the fact that those dudes and dudettes are a bit, shall we say, inconsistent with the performance of their duties. But the Swiss, what with the watches and the cheese and the Alps and the convenient neutrality, I assume their police work is precise even though they are saddled with many small towns with the same name.

Let me just cut to the chase here and summarize this entire thread with the question and answer that many people are wishing would have happened:

John: Gotta ticket in the mail. What should I do?

Everyone: Ask them to send you the proof. Unless you feel guilty, then just pay it.

Happy now?

Wow, Neil! I checked your sources. A blog citing other blogs. That's certainly a convincing indictment of an entire country. Doesn't it make sense that if such abuse were so widespread it would be hitting enough Italians to cause an uproar? Or maybe you found another blog saying that the cameras can spot your passport...

If you see something in the International Herald Tribune or the Guardian, let me know...

Hey Doug, we're getting all off-topic and stuff, and I am by no means bashing all Italians, but I respectfully submit the following under "ask and ye shall receive"......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jul/11/worlddispatch.rorycarroll

I know, I know, you're going to say this article was YEARS ago. Maybe it's all different now. What do I know?

However, if you wish to live in a world where nothing is real unless you read it in "The Guardian," I'm cool with that.

Neil, perhaps you haven't heard the saying:

"Heaven is where the police are British, the mechanics are German, the cooks are Italian, the lovers are French, and it is all organized by the Swiss."

I won't go into the details of Hell, but it ends, "and it's all organized by the Italians."

Yup! You were speeding. Pay up. Cameras are everywhere in Europe. Some of the more advanced GPS devices have updated information about traffic cameras and can warn you about them ahead of time. Of course, that's useless information for you now! You were tracked down via your car rental agency. Sometimes the rental agency pays the fine and in turn charges your credit card. Perhaps this is why Sixt, in Italy, did not send me a final invoice in the mail until several months after returning from my trip.

John, that part about the rental car agencies paying the fine and charging your credit card is a falsehood. At least in the many, many threads on this same topic there has been nobody that has stated this has happened. When the rental car agencies are approached by the police for the purpose of obtaining information about the driver of the car they own at the time a violation occurred, the agencies are more than happy to provide this information and charge you for this privilege. Some people have confused this extra charge as the actual fine, but it is not.

Actually, they will, depending on the country. In Canada, if you're ticketed with a traffic infraction that's laid on the vehicle (red light camera, parking meter, etc), they will send the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle...the rental agency...and they will simply put it on your credit card. I guess it depends on whether they blame the driver or the car for the infraction. ;)

Perhaps for clarity I should have added "in Europe" to my post. Because I don't know anything about Canadian infraction enforcement. You may be right there, Norm. Is there a thread about this on "Rick Steves Canada?"

Just so nobody is confused, I'll say it again. NOT ONE PERSON has reported that a credit card company simply paid their ticket for them. Not. One. Person.

Thanks for the "clarification," Neil......so what's your point?

Hi, Norm! My point is, the statement "Sometimes the rental agency pays the fine" is not true. For people who receive parking citations in Europe.

That's my point.

No Neil, that is not true. You'd fail Grade 8 science class by assuming the lack of proof is proof, in itself, of something happening or not. What you CAN say with certainty is that none of the six or eight people who have reported on this website over the past few months that they've received a traffic violation notice from Italy, or the one person who has reported a similar occurrence in Switzerland, have had the fine charged to their credit cards. That hardly proves that it doesn't happen, and certainly does not cover all of Europe.

At Slow Travel - Italy they say violations of the ZTL in Florence can show up as a charge made by the rental card company on the traveler's credit card, go here to see that http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/driving/traffic_cameras_speeding.htmscroll down to the ZTL section. The rental company doing that isn't typical for people reporting in here, but apparently it happens, judging from the Slow Travel website.

Oh my gosh, I went away for a few days to cross country ski and I come home and you are all still going at it!! I implore you to put your traveling knowledge to other posts and move on. (for your sakes, not mine-I'm off to California to visit Mickey Mouse and ski)

Connie, I don't have any other traveling knowledge.

Connie...this is a topic that comes up routinely....so you might as well get used to it! °o°

Oh, wait...I forgot to say, Wales is best.

Neil, if you don't have any "other" traveling knowledge, what are you doing here? Have you ever even been to Switzerland, which is the actual topic here?

(And if you haven't, you might try going the first weekend in August, to Zürich for the Love Parade . . . since you enjoy Nirvana concerts. . .)

I received one and I can't even figure out how to pay it. Does anyonw know? Is simply says that The above amount must be transfered to the account of Canton Police Nidwalden within 30 days of postmark using the attached paymnent slip. I don't think a personal check will do and there is no provision for credit card information.

Any ideas?

Lola I thought your heaven and hell joke was very funny, although I think one could switch it to French Cooks and Italian lovers,, LOL

I got back from France, and remember seeing camera flashes a couple of times on the autoroute and thinking "oops", especially after being told about this by some of my friends after the first time I noticed this. The last time I was there was over 5 years ago, and was used to traveling well over the speed limit of 130 km/h, so thanks to technology they can be stricter and I have to slow down.

So I fully expect to get tickets in the mail. Question is, does this go on my US driving record?

Thanks,

Frank

Frank, the answer is "no."

We too think we may have a ticket, as my husband was "blinded by the light" of the flash in a tunnel. We have been home for a few weeks, and have not heard anything yet.

We just assumed it would show up on our Credit Card.

A number of posters have asked "how would you like it if foreigners did not obey our laws when driving in the U.S.?" Honestly, if a European tourist comes to the States and inadvertantly violates a speed zone or something else that caused no personal or property damage, I couldn't care less if they pay the ticket. Their tourist spending is worth more than paying a stupid parking ticket.

Wow, I can't believe this topic resurfaced as I remember reading it the first time around and got spooked. After I read it I went back to the research mode and tried to wise up on rules for my trip. Now that I'm back, I'm fully expecting to get a surprise in the mail at some point.

I think Steve is right, having the tourist spending money in my country is more valuable than the ticket, but threads like this show that's not how it works. I also think Neil has some good points and if and when my letter comes, I'd like sufficient proof. If there isn't it sounds like there are ways to ask for it. I'm not opposed to paying the fine if I made the error (even though I again refer to Steve's point).

I found the driving experience to be unique. I visited and drove through Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic.

Although I thought I knew the rules, I found some I didn't know as I went along. Like the fact that as you enter a town in Austria, your speed must be at 50Km as you pass the town sign. It's not posted and the kind officer in one town who did pull me over explained in his broken english and hand motions that the town sign is also the speed sign. I explained that the last sign I saw said 70Km and I was clocked at 69. He seemed to appreciate my honestly and let me go without a ticket (hmmmm, maybe he had a camera in the car and I'll get one in the mail for that also)... But if I messed up there, I'm sure I must have other places too.

I agree with all the comments here.

I must say, after being gone from Europe so long, this experience takes away one of the things I like most about Europe- being able to drive fast on the autobahn/autoroute/autostrada with a set of drivers who are disciplined about passing, control, etc. Now I will be only able to do this in Germany, and in the other places I will be able to only go at speeds comparable to the US. I will be much less inclined to rent a performance car for example...

Fortunately the scenery and places are still beautiful:)

-Frank

Pat---I believe you are correct---the original joke has the cooks French and the lovers Italian. I must have switched them as a Freudian slip---I much prefer Italian cooking over French. As for the lovers, unfortunately I can't say.

The version I have seen is:

Heaven is where the cooks are French, the lovers are Italian, the police are British, the mechanics are German, and it's all organized by the Swiss. Hell is where the cooks are British, the lovers are Swiss, the police are German, the mechanics are French, and it's all organized by the Italians.

This is the kind of joke in which there is something to offend everyone.

And to Lola: It looks like you have two things to be checked off your checklist, next trip to Europe!;)

I received 2 speeding tickets from the Swiss police in July 2009 for alleged offences in January and May 2007. I say alleged, because the license plate noted on the paperwork is not mine (not even particurlarly close - and no vehicule type mentioned), and I am sure I was not in Switzerland on those dates. So, the Swiss do make mistakes - I am still disputing the "offence" with them, but fully expect it to drag on, and on..... Conversely, when I was flashed in France (where I live) all the details were correct - and I was guilty! Paid up and took the points; but I won't give in to the Swiss unless they can come up with proof.

Hi,
I have recieved a speed ticket from a camera around zurich from 2001!!
Got 2 notices by mail in German and nothing else(e.g picture..)
I forgot to pay this although i wanted too..
My Q is:what should I do now? is it 'safe' for me to cross the swiss border?
Thanks

If you choose not to pay the ticket...DO NOT RETURN TO SWITZERLAND. When you check into a hotel (and sometimes cross the border) police records will list you as a "scofflaw" All hotel records are posted daily with the local comissariat. Then you will be subject to an embarrassing arrest and if you cannot pay...a short imprisonment.Also...like in the USA, these tickets can escalate as time passes. Just pay the bloody ticket and get on with you life...is this really worth all the fuss for $80-90. if you pay it, go to the swiss embassy and keep a record of your payments

What you guys decide is up to you. I will correct one piece of erroneous information:

"...it takes a person to read the license plate and then enter the data into the data base..."

That is not accurate. The license plates are recognized using OCR software. Only ones that the computer cannot interpret get reviewed by a person. I don't know in Italy, but in Texas the turnpike authority states that 6 per 1,000 require human intervention, and 5 per 1,000 are selected at random for second checks. Odds are that no person has actually reviewed the accuracy of the ticket.

Bill, I know it has been several years now since the speeding ticket in Switzerland. Did the letters stop coming to you? Did you end up paying? I did the same thing as you.

I can't tell you specifically about Switzerland but I can tell you specifically about the UK...might not help you but may help others?

In the UK a notice of intended prosecution (NIP) is issued. Check this thoroughly...why?

Ok, I'll tell you why...as a police advanced driving instructor and pursuit instructor we would train in public in unmarked cars driving in excess of the speed limit. We would often be caught by speed cameras (police are exempt) so we would still receive the NIP, to which we had to write a letter claiming the police exemption due to training etc. I would say about 15. To 20% of these NIPs had mistakes, wrong place , time, day, or even number plate. ..so remember back to the day and is the information correct, if not you may wish to contest it. Also some hand held lasers can record the wrong speed, this is very very rare but it can happen..so check !

You may think, well I'm a tourist I'll not pay...well if you ever return to the UK and come into contact with the police you may be checked against the national database and you will be in trouble, probably arrested, probably put in a cell to appear before the magistrate the next morning and another fine imposed!

The speeding fine generally is about £90, depending on the amount you were over the limit! you may be offered a speed awareness course but it's unlikely you could attend if a visitor so would have to pay the fine.

This posting is over five years old. John has not posted since that time and Bill had not posted in over two years. If you want contact with these people, trying sending a PM. It is obvious that they are not active on this site today.