Should Babies Be Allowed in First Class?

This is sure to bring a variety of responses.

I do not mind babies/children on flights in any class as long as the parents are putting out the effort to do their best. I have had a nightmare flight where parents turned on their electronic devices and completely ignored their three young children sitting across from me. The kid’s screaming lasted for hours.

I don’t see the cabin/seat configuration in first/business class on long haul trans-Atlantic flights as child friendly. I think that is why premium economy often has a large number of toddlers.

Carol, I'd like to say I'm surprised but in the world we live in now, not so much. It just seems like common courtesy for parents to do what they can within reason to ensure their kids are not bothering others. I realize there are limits with crying babies. I'm a parent, too, but I can't imagine putting in ear buds and letting my kids do their thing.

The answer is ear plugs or some noise cancelling headphones.

While we were in the Turks and Caicos Islands last week, I did not encounter a single person (including younger Hospitality Industry employees) who knew the term "The Old Caribbean." That product, which is getting hard to find, means:

1. No TVs
2. No Air Conditioning
3. No children under 12 in high season

We did notice an adults-only resort on Aruba in 2020, but it was one highrise in a row of highrises.

Cant open the NYT link due to paywall. What's a quick summary of the results?

My gift.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/travel/babies-flying-first-class.html?unlocked_article_code=8K2jMTAuS5saBumr2tuP2k2qHLgyJVgRSVz7CCe9KN5ze8u9GDgkODpDoHLI-Bfo0Z8Gt58mo7HzeZ0lRonOrsLNvurRLtZqmAdlKRsrSoTbAmv4EqSzav8mAS1GoOE_ZsWWszsqZVCLaes4QH6xOKrtLDXy60YZOvh41Q8c6qh1wbJj95Mezg1mMliE3QAOG3wTL2t9Zjp8OHEp_KKLwZtnRxg2xvLoTYUtevmDjIUIGcvTtssi4oUlImwyDkAarXespDJpPbxBPEFh9lmNC-TqIzYh_sPISQ2wL0cU45UavtGmfEnXqnHmQuUuBjOGoL8RjpN8SPWJpoCAckZETHDI&smid=share-url

Stan, the gist of the article boils down to...

• Surprise, babies sometimes cry and can make a lot of noise on flights (despite the best efforts of considerate parents to try and quiet them). Apparently babies do not yet understand or appreciate how lucky they are to be seated up near the pointy end, with all the caviar, champagne, and spacious seats.
• First class/business class is expensive, and many people choose to pay extra for that with the expectation of a quiet environment where they can sleep and/or concentrate on getting work done. Crying babies may interfere with that.
• Most airlines do allow babies in their first/business class cabins.

People will argue both sides passionately. It's kind of a clickbait article -- the subject is known to push some people's buttons and elicit strong reactions.

So, it's all about the First Class experience. No sympathy from me.

Yes, of course.

Hmm. I have mixed feelings.

I can understand not wanting to sit beside a crying baby. Who does? But I've found that earplugs or headphones do a lot to help me ignore it.

I don't like being around other people's kids if they are unruly in public, indoor spaces, and, like others, I appreciate when their parents make the effort to keep them entertained and calm. I always did, and planned accordingly, bringing activity books, toys, snacks, etc. However, I AM aware that some kids may have special needs, such as being on the spectrum, and this might be more of a challenge.

What annoyed me about this article, though, was the term "child free" (and "baby free" and "kid free"). I loathe that disgusting turn of phrase, which should not be applied to human beings. I can't think of any other "____ free" phrase in which the _____ is not something horrid (e.g. bug free, germ free), and it is bigoted to apply that concept to humans.

Anyway, a personal anecdote:

We have three children and have flown with them a number of times, and they were always well-behaved. However, one time, when my youngest was 2, we were on our way to Disney World with a plane change in Dallas/Fort Worth. We had a tight layover, made even tighter by the first flight being a bit late. Our 2 gates were supposed to be right near one another, but they were at opposite ends of the airport. Our youngest had slept on the first flight and was awakened when we put her in her foldable stroller for the dash through the airport. In the process, one of her shoes fell off, and we picked it up but didn't have time to put it back on her foot. She was decidedly unhappy about this and started crying. We just made it to our other gate and were the last people to board--a family of five with a screaming toddler. As we started to walk through the first-class cabin, my husband said loudly, "We paid all this money for first-class seats, and you're behaving like this???!!?" Every head in the cabin snapped up, and we chuckled to ourselves as we headed back to our economy seats. BTW, the airline provided us with bagged lunches which contained cute, stubby bottles of water. As soon as we got seated, put the shoe on the other foot, and gave youngest child the little bottle of water, she was all smiles for the entire flight.

If the family pays up for a seat for a child or baby then I do not see where there is an issue. Definitely check the kids ID before giving him the champagne!

The comments on the NYT article are really quite sad, including that babies should not be allowed on airplanes. It's just ridiculous. I've flown in economy with a baby and flown in business/first class with a baby. The two times that he cried, once in economy and once in first class. In economy the man who had sat behind me was complaining as he got off that my son cried the entire flight. Meanwhile, my son had fallen asleep as soon as we reached cruising altitude and did not wake up until we woke him up to disembark. On the first class flight, a young man asked the flight attendant why we were allowed to sit in first class saying that he and his wife had paid a lot for their seats. The flight attendant replied so did they and they bought four tickets not two so they win. I bet this guy is one of the commenters on the NYT article unless, of course, he now has a child who he is traveling with in first class. I tune out crying children on airplanes and sympathize with their parents. regardless of which cabin I am in. First class is for extra legroom, bigger seats, and the ability to board early and disembark early, it's not a fortress of solitude.

Articles on this theme always strike me a bit wrong because it seems to me that everyone on the plane deserves a good experience, not just those in business/first class. There are people in economy who saved for years for this special trip, and those in business who upgraded using miles with little out of pocket expense.

Let's put the focus where it belongs. Parents, no matter what class you fly in, please remember that a lot of people are trapped in a metal tube for hours with your child. I love kids (elementary school teacher here). However I do expect you to be responsible for your child's behavior, take the steps necessary to help them have a good flight experience, and teach them how to behave appropriately on an airplane. That's your job, no matter what class you're seated in.

I've read about some airlines having private suites. There's the answer!

Linda, I'm a middle and high school teacher and agree with you. Maybe the parents in question give their kids "freedom to express themselves." I've known more than a few parents like that. Often after a parent-teacher conference everything makes sense. There are a lot of adult children raising children.

I was getting frustrated and angry right from the first paragraph of the article.

From the article: after putting in her earbuds and then noise-canceling headphones over them, Ms. Che said she was unable to block out the sound of the baby’s cries.

If she can afford first class she can afford better headphones. I could pick so many quotes from the article that have me riled up. Some adults are too self entitled and behave like the babies that they complain about. The one point I do agree with is that we do have a responsibility to try and keep them calm and well-behaved, but babies don't always cooperate. We were lucky, our kids were good on planes, but we did make an effort.

I wonder, if we started sharing our unpleasant flight stories, how many would be about self entitled a#%holes and not kids? From my experience, all of them.

I don't mind babies. I mind the parents that fly business class and put their kids in premium economy. Had a horrendous flight on BA with two on the other side of the aisle 10/12, who's mom basically left them in PE while she "relaxed" in Club World. Of course as boys do, the started fighting, play hitting each other and being loud, even as the poor older gentleman sitting beside them tried to calm them down. Finally, about midway through the flight, mom comes back to see her boys and asks about them. The man next to them told her that they had been loud and needed to calm down. Instead of punishing the boys, she asked the flight attendant why she didn't come get her.

Some posh gits think the FA's are their nannies and don't have a whole cabin of people to serve. I think everyone in Premium Economy was glad to get off that flight. I do think the airlines should have a rule that kids 12 and under need to be in the same cabin as their parents. As for babies, I have plugged ears on flights and I know who much it hurts so I have sympathy for the parents.

@Linda-I agree, it's really up to the parents and some parents need to have manners taught. My parents would have never let me kick seats or wrestle and fight with my siblings on an airplanes but it seems many parents just "zone out" on flights and nowadays FAs aren't going to intervene unless necessary.

I've been fairly lucky with flights over the years, but this year on both the outward and return 10+ hour flight from London I was subjected to babies that seemingly screamed and howled the entire time. Going over wasn't so bad as I was able to watch movies. Coming back they didn't have earphones so I was miserably annoyed. Thus I finally purchased ear buds so I will never again be at the mercy of the airlines' earphones or screaming babies.

Interesting thread, Kateja!

I've only flown Delta One a couple of times but going over last spring the issue was not a child who was disruptive but an older woman (my age or more) who TALKED the whole flipping night. We were in the Delta pods so her husband was in the seat ahead of her, I was behind her and she talked to/at him the whole night.

I don't want "old people" to be restricted from Delta One because of her behavior, lol!!

BTW, on the same flight there were 2 kids across the aisle from me in the 2 center seats who were 8-9 years old. They behaved beautifully.

YMMV.

I don't like screaming babies, but how about people using nail polish, or nail polish remover in their seats? Not to mention opening cans of sardines and the like. I haven't seen anyone cutting their nails at their seat, but I'm sure it happens. Flying used to be for the refined, the elite, and (mostly) the well-schooled in etiquette. It's not anymore. In a Democracy, that's largely a plus.

I haven't seen anyone cutting their nails at their seat, but I'm sure it happens.

I used to have an office cubicle neighbor who did this weekly. I was thankful he retired before he moved on to his toenails 😬

What about people behind you who stick their stanky foot through the gap beside your seat, onto your armrest? I tend to "accidentally" lean on my elbow on top of their foot.

I agree that parents must sit with their children and must do everything they can to keep their children comfortable and entertained and not having ear pain on takeoff and landing. If the parents are doing this, the other people on the plane need to remember that those children may be paying their social security in 25 years.

@BB-That's when you knock their foot off with your elbow. Somehow I don't know what people are thinking that do that.

Any child under 16 should be in the cargo hold.

People in economy are as entitled to a quiet flight as those in first class.

Interesting and revealing survey. No objection from me with the presence of babies, since in First Class I know I'll fall asleep quite easily.

Interesting and revealing survey. No objection from me with the presence of babies, since in First Class I know I'll fall asleep quite easily.

I thought that until I encountered a screaming toddler for 12 hours straight on a first class flight from SFO to LHR.

It seems to me it's up to the parent to,well, parent. And then to the FA to glower at them if they won't.

I will take a screaming baby anyway over a childish adult. At least the baby doesn't know any better;)

I do believe parents should parent and not let kids be disruptive to other passengers. That is not always an option though with babies, but as long as a parent is doing all they can, they have my sympathy. Been there, done that, and I truly feel for the parents and babies. Sometimes just a little bit of kindness can go so far in these situations. Now, for obnoxious adults, nope, no sympathy from me and I would rather them get booted than any child.

I haven't seen anyone cutting their nails at their seat, but I'm sure
it happens.

Google it. It happens.🤮🤢
I haven't seen it on a flight, but at the gym I go to, every Monday morning there is a pile of toenail clippings on the locker room bench. Neatly stacked, but the offender can't be bothered to put them in the garbage can 10' away.

Silence is golden .... duct tape is silver.

A classic entitled adult vs 8-month-old baby story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qzz6m5HIwI

Spoiler alert: the entitled adult ultimately lost her job for this exchange.

A baby blasting away incessantly on a trans-Atlantic flight from SFO has already been my experience, still slept. That was in cramped Economy. In First Class with much more comfort and space available, these conducive factors, I doubt a screaming baby or kid will prevent me from sleeping.

If there are 2 or 3 kids doing likewise, that is unique. Luckily the chances of that happening are small, also had that experience once or twice in Economy.

I can and have tolerated crying babies on flights. I can tune it out. I’ve experienced many scenarios over the years. The clipping of nails, calming down a flight attendant sitting next to me during turbulence, a young child kicking the back of my seat (I addressed it with the parent- it stopped) And volunteering multiple times to assist with Medical emergencies (all turned out well). The most disturbing encounter was finding a woman & her husband sitting in our seats- purposely! I told them they were in our seats. The woman said they were not moving. The woman told us we could sit somewhere else! Long story short, the proactive flight attendant made them move. (You can’t make this stuff up!) Looking forward to our next flight. LoL.

We flew to Paris a few weeks ago. A 2-year-old girl and her parents sat in the row behind us. The child sat on her mother's lap and kicked my seat for hours. She needed to be changed but the parents didn't take any action. I didn't say anything (my fault). An unpleasant (and stinky) 8-hour flight. Comfort +, not First Class, but I don't think it would have mattered.

Well perhaps I can be an advocate for a babies right to cry in business class.

Probably first time in a strange, enclosed environment. Perhaps mum is anxious over the flight, or dad for that matter. More so if still feeding off mum. Just been through the trauma of checking in, making sure the perambulator, and other essentials are in order. Going through the all exciting security screening process surrounded by the milling throngs of humanity.

Then into an unfamiliar skinny tube like thing with 40 or 50 old people one has never seen before. (I scare myself every time I adjust that big screen and see how I have aged in the subdued cabin light.) They are mostly grey headed, wrinkly faced and unsmiling. Babies ears are particularly sensitive, while the old people around have trouble hearing each other and need to talk loudly. The old folks get to eat using stainless steel cutlery on China plates, making noises that baby may not have heard before.

Babies first time with other than ground level air pressure on its young ears.

When these oldies finally get comfortable enough to sleep, they snore. That is what the ear plugs are really for. Maybe mum or dad takes baby for a walk to break the monotony. What do they see? The same as me. Wide open mouths, lots of teeth with fillings, up hairy noses and other things baby should be shielded from. Then there is the constant noise from the toilets as the prostates of the old men demand that they go for a pee every hour or so.

Many of the above are enough to make me want to cry.

If I were a baby again I would agitate airlines be forced to create a special babies class, at the front of the aircraft. Then business class for the entitled group, like me.
Regards Ron

Wait! Should babies be allowed in First Class? Like us working stiffs down in steerage dont count?
They should be considered either carry-on (under 8kg and in the overhead) or a personal item (fits under the seat).

Mister E, we should be grateful airlines allow the unwashed masses to fly.

Those who fly first class need to rememer they are still using public mass transit. Live with it.

I flew Business Class to Amsterdam in September, and the first thing I noticed was the absolute quiet immediately after the dinner service.
It was just bliss not to hear people shouting over to their friends three rows away, or other loud noises.
The whole B.C. cabin bedded down and lights out about two minutes after the trays were cleared, and it stayed that way for 7 hours.
That to me was worth every penny of the price I had paid.
As a retired nurse, when I got up to the bathroom I was almost tempted to check for signs of life on all the sleeping people. ;)

I would never say ban young kids for Business or First class, as it seems that it is not the kids who are the problem, but the lack of parenting skills.

Flying home, I was in regular Economy.
Across the aisle was a youngish mother/aunt/ older sister...hard to tell.. with two boys, one about 4 the other about 11 or 12.
She spent the whole flight on her phone, the 4 year old had not one single toy or book to keep him busy so he had his tray table down and was "driving" and shaking it like a big steering wheel when he wasn't screaming for attention from the woman.
Every now and then the older boy would turn and cuff the small boy quite hard on the head to behave.
The mother did nothing.
She also did not feed the younger boy much.
I felt very sorry for the 4 year old, as he obviously was not important to either one.

Only quiet emotional comfort babies.

Quite an animated discussion going on here on the topic of babies. Having once been a baby, and having a baby ( forty years ago), a few musings....
I don't remember my parents taking me everywhere as a very young child. I also did not take my infant daughter everywhere, whether expensive restaurants or flights. There were assumptions when adults entered parenthood that some activities were put on hold until children grew up a little. Parents have the joys of healthy, beautiful young children, priceless in itself. As a parent, I modified my lifestyle in many areas, and put some pleasures on hold- just for a few years. I'm mystified why parents of very young children feel the need to drag these babies on international flights and trips- does anyone in these parties really enjoy such trips with infants in tow? Why the need to have it all NOW? So parents need vacations- plan a trip with your young children a few hours drive from your homes - every state has beautiful vacation areas/ resorts within reach of land travel.
(And, the grandparents flew to us. )
So regarding business class and first class, I do feel the product should be delivered as sold- more comfort, relaxation, amenities and peace. If drunk obnoxious passengers interfere with this, they lose these privileges. If children / babies interfere with this, these families also lose these privileges for future flights. And If airlines can't deliver the product they are charging so much for, then adjustments/ restrictions are required on their part.

Thank you Pat.

Pat-- We were a military family stationed on the east coast with all of our family here on the west coast. The only way to see our family was to fly. Many times I had to fly when my husband was deployed, so I was alone with 2 babies. I had to fly when our son was 3 weeks old for a family wedding. I know another military family whose family was living in Germany and so their only option was to fly. It isn't always possible for someone else to do the flying, or to leave the babies with grandparents etc. There are circumstances.

Flying First Class is for me only theoretical and hypothetical, never did it, not a future option either. While a baby or kids blasting away in Economy is a taxing experience, still basically no problem, I had better be able put up with that during the trans-Atllanic flight.

Taking a train in First Class is definitely an option. My first experience with screaming kids was on the TGV in First Class Paris to Frankfurt, surprising and unexpected, since I thought one booked First Class to escape that sort of incident. Never had seen that in First Class prior.

.

I can't imagine having that kind of money, when you have young children but if you have it, it might be the only way to be sure your young children are seated near you. People are constantly complaining that the airline changes their plane and changes their long-planned seating reservations so their children are distributed throughout the plane. This just happened to a Platinum level Delta Flyer, whose kids are 4 and 7 and the airline was not seating any of the 4 family members next to each other.

I have no idea why I was moved from the main cabin to first class for a west coast flight to NYC. My baby was about 4 mos. He entertained my seat mate. He was a nice young man. I couldn’t believe it when he gave me his card and said to call him. Ha ha.
I wasn’t a person to take my three little boys to Europe. Thankfully, two sets of grandparents loved helping out! My kids did well on our yearly flights to the east coast. I am thankful for that, as hubby never went with us. I was on my own.
One such trip ended up with a flight attendant friend working the flight. I had not seen her in years. She brought me a full bottle of wine and a lot of first class treats for the kids that I shared with other families nearby.
As far as kids being allowed or not in first class, why shouldn’t everyone share in the “misery”?

If airlines made it more comfortable In steerage, then maybe not.

People are constantly complaining that the airline changes their plane
and changes their long-planned seating reservations so their children
are distributed throughout the plane. This just happened to a Platinum
level Delta Flyer, whose kids are 4 and 7 and the airline was not
seating any of the 4 family members next to each other.

Yup, can happen. Never seen it (or recognized it if I did see it, but twice in hundreds of flights so I would suspect a rare occurrence.

More likely cheap parents didn't want to pay the seat fee and thought they could get six seats together the day of the flight.

The two occurrences I do remember the flight attendants solved the issue by asking other passengers to swap around; in one event I volunteered and got swapped up to Premium economy and mom dad and the kids got booted back to steerage.

All in all I think the airlines do pretty good job dealing with the poor planning of the customers.

Unfortunately speaking from personal experience: I will gladly take the crying baby (assuming the parents are making reasonable efforts to comfort the baby), over the drunken, drooling man who has fallen asleep against my shoulder, which has happened twice in first class. Never in premium economy or economy class.

Trotter, that was you? Sorry. Wait, you said First Class NVM wasnt me.

Awww, Mister E, I'd gladly give you the window seat so you can lean against it instead of me.

I just hope that I have the grace and compassion of the gentleman in this article -- https://nypost.com/2018/05/01/hero-plane-passenger-helps-mom-calm-screaming-baby/

The compassion aspect is certainly there. For me it's matter of my forbearance.

Domestically or trans-Atlantic I don't recall any incident with screaming kids that were worth remembering. On my 3rd trip I flew Air France where a passenger had a kid who just wouldn't quit. This was in Economy and the passenger didn't understand either English or French.

There was one particular incident on the return flight back to SFO from Europe where my seat was close to the screaming kid. At first, the other passengers tolerated it, but after one mentioned something to the father, soon afterwards other passengers spoke their minds. One could tell that the father was frustrated seeing his child continue blasting away and annoyed that these passengers were complaining.

I didn't say anything,... pointless, ( why should I ?) saying my 2 bits would only serve to exacerbate the incident which I thought might turn downright ugly as I marveled at the kid with this sustained energy released by screaming.

All in all, encountering this type of incident has been pretty seldom on my flights.

@VAP thank you for sharing that heartwarming story. I can recall many times over the years observing flight attendants pick up screaming babies and taking them to the back of the plane. Apparently just the humming of the engines was calming to the infant. When I worked in Pediatrics we used to tell moms to feed their infant upon take off & landing. If not at feeding time offer a pacifier. This protects them from ear pain due to pressure changes at takeoff and landing.

@Janis, and that is one thing airlines could do to help: a brochure or something they could hand parents as they board with small children with ideas on how to deal with crying and other problems. Not every parent knows intuitively how to handle such a situation.

Stan, couldn’t agree more! It’s all about educating. Perhaps it could alleviate many of the ongoing issues. I recall reading about “Stewardesses” way before WWII. One of the qualifications was having an RN license! https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiE3JvUkKr8AhXWAjQIHefDBroQFnoECA8QAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2Fabout%2Fhistory%2Fpioneers%2Fmedia%2FEllen_Church_and_the_Advent_of_the_Sky_Girls.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3Si07YHuoLLokiTPwooBwB

Mister E, the family I'm talking about made their seat reservations far in advance.

The only time I have ever been bumped up to first class was when I was flying (by myself) with my baby! It was 20 years ago, and I don't remember the details, but there was some confusion that caused several of us to be called up and told to wait while others boarded. Many started to complain, but I just waited patiently off to the side with my adorable, well behaved baby son. I was one of the last to be called to the desk and they put me in first class! I was shocked. So, the moral of the story is always be polite, patient, and travel with a cute baby?

Douglas—I agree 100%!!! I remember traveling with the kids when they were young. Long before devices. I bought stickers and Mr Potato Heads. I tried lots of other toys, but these were golden for our kids and kept them occupied on cross country flights. Our CPA said he brings little lollipops for kids. Not his, but others. Brilliant IMO.

As regards noise cancelling headphones.
Do they really work to obscure a crying baby, or a screaming two year old?
Do they REALLY work? I emphasize that.
I do not have such headphones excepting good ones for shooting. You can still hear with those.
Across the aisle, screaming two year old? Would I be in silence?
Report back.

I've got Bose noise cancelling ear buds and yes, they do work.

If it's not my child, I usually don't even pay attention no matter where I'm sitting. Yes, I wear Bose earbuds, too.

I've got Bose noise cancelling ear buds and yes, they do work.

So have I and they definitely didn't drown out the crying toddler for all 12 hours of my first class flight from SFO. I don't know which ones the mother was wearing as she didn't rouse the entire journey to assist her husband who had the child on his lap.

I've got Bose noise cancelling ear buds and yes, they do work.

I've used them many times and while they are the best noise canceling ear buds any sharp loud baby cries will not be eliminated. They do however soften the less intense noises around me and allow me to focus more on my favorite music. The baby cries are simply reduced somewhat in volume and frequency range.